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8 Year old Murderers
Buddies
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
In case you have been living under a rock this past week. Quick CNN write up
So an eight year old kid in Arizona is being charged with murder. He allegedly shot his father and his fathers roomate with a 22. He confessed to officers that he was the one that shot them, but only after interrogation. The kicker here is that he is charged on two counts of premeditated murder.
You think this kid did it?
You think it was Premeditated? Are 8 year olds capable of premeditated murder?
If he did do it, and if the forensic evidence report is correct he did do it, then what should they do with the kid? Prison for the rest of his life? Counseling and therapy till he is 25?
Is there such a thing as inherently evil, can this kid be saved?
The complication I see is this: it was reported to be a 22 caliber weapon. I don't know too much about being shot, but I do know what a 22 bullet looks like. You have to be a pretty damn good shot to get a kill hit with a 22 caliber. Now do it twice, on men 3 times your own size. That is pretty amazing. It could not have been accidental.
Although it could not have been accidental, Murder in the first degree for an 8 year old is pretty crazy to think about. All the bad consequences from my actions at 8 years old were not my intention. Can a child that young rationalize that he hates his dad, never wants to see him again and therefore will shoot him down? I am skeptical. I have worked with many 8 year olds, and it seems apparent to me that their actions are mostly driven by emotion, not rational thought.
Needless to say, I am interested in the outcome of this story. Post your thoughts and feelings.
So an eight year old kid in Arizona is being charged with murder. He allegedly shot his father and his fathers roomate with a 22. He confessed to officers that he was the one that shot them, but only after interrogation. The kicker here is that he is charged on two counts of premeditated murder.
You think this kid did it?
You think it was Premeditated? Are 8 year olds capable of premeditated murder?
If he did do it, and if the forensic evidence report is correct he did do it, then what should they do with the kid? Prison for the rest of his life? Counseling and therapy till he is 25?
Is there such a thing as inherently evil, can this kid be saved?
The complication I see is this: it was reported to be a 22 caliber weapon. I don't know too much about being shot, but I do know what a 22 bullet looks like. You have to be a pretty damn good shot to get a kill hit with a 22 caliber. Now do it twice, on men 3 times your own size. That is pretty amazing. It could not have been accidental.
Although it could not have been accidental, Murder in the first degree for an 8 year old is pretty crazy to think about. All the bad consequences from my actions at 8 years old were not my intention. Can a child that young rationalize that he hates his dad, never wants to see him again and therefore will shoot him down? I am skeptical. I have worked with many 8 year olds, and it seems apparent to me that their actions are mostly driven by emotion, not rational thought.
Needless to say, I am interested in the outcome of this story. Post your thoughts and feelings.
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edit: Apparently most states don't even have a minimum age - like Arizona, where this case took place.
Despite not knowing anything scientific about ballistics, the human body, guns, or intersections of those subjects like statistics on .22 shooting deaths, you still manage to come to a conclusion- one you firmly say "could not" be any other way.
If people like you didn't exist, we wouldn't have to put up with pyramid schemes, bogus health food supplements, and those little cell-phone holograms. Hey, you have an opinion based on how something appears to you- and that means you know what you're talking about.
I'm not saying that the conclusion is wrong, I'm just saying you're right because the odds were 50% that you would decide it was accidental vs not accidental and you lucked out.
^ we start to veer off the road
^ and there we are showing everyone how little we know about what we are talking about.
I don't agree with your question. The correct one would be "Is this 8 year old capable of premeditated murder?" and the courts would be those to find out. Generalizations on the capabilities of an individual because of age are absolutely useless if they don't allow for exceptions.
Fuck no, I don't want him "saved". I have no problem with getting him in special care and prison after majority for life and I have no problem with counseling and rehabilitation programs that could see him back in school in 10 years, but I certainly don't want somebody "saving him" just because of his age.
I hadn't heard about this case, I seriously doubt it's the first and my guess is it would be no different than any other criminal justice murder case, which is something I approve of.
Stay classy Arizona
Isn't the purpose of the prison system rehabilitation?* Shouldn't an 8 year-old be a perfect candidate for that rehabilitation?
*Oh wait, not here in the good ol' USA, where we would lock up an 8 year-old for fucking life at the drop of a hat.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and state an absolute - no 8 year-old is capable of completely and totally understanding the ramifications and consequences of an act of this magnitude. It would be complete and total barbarism to lock him up for the rest of his life. Also the police questioned him w/o any sort of parental or lawyer representation, and didn't read him his rights? Boneheaded.
Also, on the "how did he do it?" front - maybe the two men were so unbelievably drunk that they were unable to respond?
There are quite a few reasons for a child to want to put a pair of adults in the grave.
Say if they were NAMBLA members.
Society's consequences have little to do with understanding murder. (Edit: in the this thing causes harm, I don't like that person, I wish to cause them harm with this thing sort of logic; they may not understand consequences in our society of murder, but they do understand that their action will result in death, and I'm sure they've been told hurting people is bad by 8; I hope) I'd wonder if a child of 8 years old is capable of being sufficiently rehabilitated where he could function with lapsing back into the thought process of killing is the solution to some problem.
Is the jailing system of other countries not the same as ours? And likewise, a jail system that works on "rehabilitation" could be taken advantage of by, would it not? It may not be the kids fault, but I have little sympathy for people who pay the "I'm just fucking crazy" card or "there's no way someone like that could do something so barbaric."
I'd wait for the evidence to be brought forth before deciding whether or not the kid needs saving.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Officially speaking an eight year old doesn't have ANY Miranda rights. The law treats minors as a sort of "special" property owned by their parents, similar to how a pet can be owned but you can't beat your dog to death (in most states.)
The court system however can make exceptions and declare a minor an adult for the purposes of trial, although again not without some exemptions (You can't really get a Jury of what you'd really consider your peers when you're underage.)
Backwards much? Damn skippy.
I struggle to find the relevance of your post to mine, so, if you could tell me why you quoted me, I could probably reply better.
As for your own post:
You probably should look up the definition of premeditated murder. It's way more simple to satisfy than you imagine.
Well, locking somebody up for the rest of his/her life may be complete and total barbarism, but it just so happens that it's part of our penalty system.
I don't have an idea if that's true or not and I honestly don't care. If it is, it may come up during the trial and bring bonus points to the defense, good for him. Sloppy police work is rarely rewarding to prosecutors.
Because they are very good for a very specific method of execution. I really doubt an eight-year-old knows to fire a .22 into the base of the skull from behind with the victim looking down. Just point-and-shoot a hit with a .22 should rarely be fatal if treated promptly.
What about multiple shots?
edit: beaten by Salv
I think its very possible for an 8 year old to commit premeditated murder. He might not understand the consequences but that doesn't mean he didn't plan and carry it out.
One thing I will say: If you're going to give him a full trial and all the rest then you can't not read him his rights and question him without counsel. That confession is the first thing that is going to be thrown out. If they have ballistics, fingerprints, gun powder residue and motive then they are welcome to make their case against him.
If the kid did indeed do it then we have a problem. There is no rehabilitation system in place for 8 year old's to my knowledge. I have zero faith in the governments ability to raise a child, but I don't see as there is much of a choice, if we let him off with a slap on the wrists he might kill again.
As far as the how, if you're a kid shooting a sleeping adult, are you going to shoot for the knees? No, you're going to go to the thing that's recognizably human (the head/face) and shoot that. Until we learn more, there's no reason this isn't 100% plausible, and we should get the facts before we start jumping to conclusions.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Ideally, we'd take murderers and rehabilitate them to make them not-murderers. Maybe it's not possible with most grown-ups. But I think it's likely possible with an 8 year old kid, someone who's young enough as to be malleable and impressionable. Whatever the details of this case, the kid needs to go into therapy. If he can be reformed, he should be. And if he hits 18 and still hasn't been "fixed", stick him in prison.
When you have a kid, stop hunting, get rid of all your guns, and spend quality time with your kid playing soccer or catch.
The whole gun culture is ridiculous.
That seems to be a bit of a leap. I mean, I'd wager a guess that the number of households with 8 year olds that still safely have guns is much much much larger than those that even remotely resemble this case.
1. Empathy is a learned skill.
2. Children have little to no neurological capacity for empathy.
3. Children have a limited concept of anything beyond "me"
4. Scariest though, children to teenagers are like little miniature sociopaths until they develop a healthy concept of empathy.
But murders by children this young are almost always the result of abuse. I mean, if you were eight and someone abused you and you had been watching too many action movies you might think, eh! this will fix my problems. Plus how is an eight year old gonna reasonably get help out of such a situation?
was probably the easiest solution to an eight year old mind.
but they're listening to every word I say
Guns are tools. You don't need to get rid of them entirely because you have a child, you just need to take proper precautions. I don't think you would advocate carpenters to no longer have skill saws in their home, would you?
I thought they were the weapon of choice because at close range, they have enough force to penetrate the skull, but not enough to exit, causing the bullet to ricochet off of the interior of the skull and frappe one's brain, preventing any possible recovery.
Accidental shootings with a .22 are rarely fatal, to my understanding, because anything other than a perpendicular, close range impact will glance off of skull and bone, and shots to the body are much like being stabbed with an icepick; after the intial entry the bullet is slowed enough to allow the minute shifting of the organs, the body's natural defense against penetrative blows, lessening the odds of vital rupture.
Multiple or specifically targeted shots to the body are generally required, and since head shots must be delivered at close range with an extremely obvious and short line of sight, it wouldn't be hard to immediately declare intent.
Or so the learnings indicate; correct me if Im wrong, guns aren't really my forte.
Right. Which means he's broken. And we should try to fix him.
Which you obviously didn't say.
If someone lives with you and wants to kill you, it doesn't much matter whether you have guns or not. He can kill you. Easily. He could've waited until his dad was asleep and then stabbed him in the throat with a knife.
Guns should be kept out of childen's hands because the chance of an accident is high. Not because the kid may actually go psycho and execute you.
I am saying that he probably was not "broken". He was probably pretty reasonable for an eight year old. I seriously doubt this was "cold blooded".
but they're listening to every word I say
Right. Well, I feel he should be held indefinitely until such a time until he's no longer a threat. If that happens to be forever, then so be it. But I doubt that would be the case in most circumstances.
See, I define murder as being the action of a fundamentally broken person. I mean, maybe if it comes out that the father was beating him daily and he'd talked to his mom and talked to outside authorities and nobody would help him and so he resorted to murder, fine. That'd be different. But unless he'd exhausted every other avenue, the fact that he would consider murder as a solution means the kid's fucked up. One way or another, he needs years of therapy.
Clearly you've never been to a pre-adolescent birthday party.
Well, that's naive. There is no reason to conclude that all 8 year olds lack the capability of rational thought and/or irrational behavior.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.