Club PA 2.0 has arrived! If you'd like to access some extra PA content and help support the forums, check it out at
The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

Another stimulus, this time $800B



  • SavantSavant Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Speaker wrote: »
    Savant wrote: »
    Speaker wrote: »
    Speaker wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Bullshit. I've seen far too many "oh, this'll earn the money back" programs.

    O rly.

    Because we don't routinely nationalize banks here in the United States.

    So I am riveted and eagerly await your examples.
    This $800b isn't going to nationalise any banks. It's going to give the banks money for their worthless assets.

    $200 billion is being lent to triple A rated borrowers - not much risk there.

    $600 is going to securities backed by mortgages, some of which are currently overvalued. If the market is stabilized then any public loss would be trivial. And again, if it isn't then we have bigger problems.

    You know what else was highly rated debt? A good portion of the shit with securitized mortgages that kicked off this mess in the first place. Some of the same shit that they want to buy up with this.

    One of the more important lessons of this mess should be this: don't trust the ratings agencies with your life. They have proven that the have had their head completely up their ass at least some of the time.

    Saying that there is not much risk is dangerously naive. A big reason why the financials are falling apart right now is that they took on tons of risk without really appreciating or honestly analyzing what they were getting themselves into. There was at least one of them that never had a quarterly loss for years or decades, and just like that they are dead.

    Well then, let's assume that nothing is true and everything is worthless.

    This is just cynicism, ignorance and panic dressed up as some kind of worldly wisdom. Why don't you insist that both political parties are the same and run by corporations just to put the cherry on top of that turd sundae Mr. Nader.

    Way to be a douche and not actually address the issue. If you had been following this you'd realize that I am not completely against government intervention if it is the option with the best possibility for results. However, if the government or the fed spend endless amounts of money trying to save everything and picking up every little bit of garbage then it has a very high chance of biting us in the ass, as it threatens lost faith in the dollar or the government's creditworthiness, which is very important given how much our debt is ballooning and backstopped by foreign entities.

    And sorry, but you are still being dangerously naive by saying that there's little risk jumping in with bailing out Wall St. The whole goddamn problem revolves around them swimming in risk and not addressing the extent of it. We might get our money back and then some with at least parts of the bailout, but the risk of losing out is still there.

    Savant on
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Speaker wrote: »
    And a lot of it coming back relies on people successfully managing firms who have already shown that they don't have a clue how to actually do that.

    This is like saying we should abolish the government because of the response to Hurricane Katrina.

    There was a regulatory failure in this case, but you have to accept that on a basic level our financial system works as long as the rules are straight.


    Please point out where I suggested abolishing the American Financial system or that it doesn't work on a basic level you concieted prick.

    I said that there's a huge risk in the government putting hundreds of billions dollars in the same mortgage-backed securities that have already cost private corporations hundreds of billions of dollars.

    If you don't believe that is true and think that there's no chance that we're all going to take a bath on this, and that these derivatives and MBS's are solid investments, well, you should look into a man named Sergei Mavrodi, he'll have some investment opportunities I'm sure you'll be interested in, I can give you his card if you like.

    Jealous Deva on
  • TiborTibor __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2008
    This is, historically speaking, a mere bump in the road to freedom and prosperity. We're a bunch of pussies: we have Social Security and Medicare - our grandfathers didn't even have free soup for a while.

    Tibor on
Sign In or Register to comment.