Yeeeah, My rogue had no problem soloing most elites... like Harold Lane and whatnot. Subtlety...
Cheap Shot... 5pt Kidney Shot.... Shadow Dance to a Prep+Cheap Shot.... get another Kidney Shot eventually after a Gouge or so. Even better in PVP, the entire "They aren't moving an inch" gameplan. Being able to do the CheapShot/KidneyShot routine TWICE (vanish, resap, wait)... throw in some gouging and blinding.... they're just fun.
But, in order of easiest to toughest to do group quests solo (among my 70+s)
Hunter
DK
Feral Druid
Rogue
Shadow Priest
Hunter and DK tied for a close 1st... it's just ridiculously easy
My Spriest soloed the group quests I have done in Tundra, Fjord, Dragonblight(not the 5 mans). The first group quest I tried that I absolutely could not have done was the Sea Monster in ZD. It is much harder then the dk I am lvling but not really hard to where I wouldn't do it again.
Hunters were doing too much damage in PvE. Of course the answer is to nerf them instead of buffing everyone else.
Well if people are complaining that content is too easy, it certainly wouldn't make sense to buff all the dps.
Easy if you've mastered sunwell and played the beta through and through. Otherwise, pretty on par. As I can attest to people not being able to move from walls of fire.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Hunters were doing too much damage in PvE. Of course the answer is to nerf them instead of buffing everyone else.
Well if people are complaining that content is too easy, it certainly wouldn't make sense to buff all the dps.
Easy if you've mastered sunwell and played the beta through and through. Otherwise, pretty on par. As I can attest to people not being able to move from walls of fire.
On the first pass through Naxx 10 man, my guild group with only a couple people who had been doing 25-man TBC content rolled 10/15 bosses. That seems a little easy too me. So base on my experience buffing everyone's DPS would have been a bad choice.
Hunters were doing too much damage in PvE. Of course the answer is to nerf them instead of buffing everyone else.
Well if people are complaining that content is too easy, it certainly wouldn't make sense to buff all the dps.
Easy if you've mastered sunwell and played the beta through and through. Otherwise, pretty on par. As I can attest to people not being able to move from walls of fire.
On the first pass through Naxx 10 man, my guild group with only a couple people who had been doing 25-man TBC content rolled 10/15 bosses. That seems a little easy too me. So base on my experience buffing everyone's DPS would have been a bad choice.
Similarly my guild who barely started getting into 25 mans is having a really hard time getting into nax because it's a whole new ballgame to them. Especially ones that need coordination and movement. Consequently noth was no trouble. And no, the guild master isn't in with us. But I find that when pugging into a group that's done even a little bit of some SSC to be a completely different experience. An overall buff to everyone while a minor nerf to hunters would probably be better than TO THE GROUND.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
An overall buff to everyone while a minor nerf to hunters would probably be better than TO THE GROUND.
Has the sky fallen on ret pallies yet?
Yeah, a month ago.
Glad I didn't have a Ret paladin right after the content patch. Only recently specced Ret and I'm very happy with it... I had no idea I could white crit nearly 7 times in a row in the 1000s... and kill nearly anything without problems.
No chance of being disappointed if I didn't try it un-nerfed!
Hunters were doing too much damage in PvE. Of course the answer is to nerf them instead of buffing everyone else.
Well if people are complaining that content is too easy, it certainly wouldn't make sense to buff all the dps.
Easy if you've mastered sunwell and played the beta through and through. Otherwise, pretty on par. As I can attest to people not being able to move from walls of fire.
Oh hell yes, my new guild promoted me to Ranged DPS leader, i spend an inordinate amount of time threatening to beat my charges with a rake unless they start paying attention to something other than big numbers and their cast bars. Had a boomkin tonight that managed to get hit by every single bloody lava wave despite standing about 5 inches from the gap, he refused to bloody move out of that lava for fear it would disrupt a single cast. And we've got a Hunter who seems incapable of grasping the concept of cause and effect, i swear that guy could be outsmarted by yeast.
Oh yeah they do alright. But it's kind of disheartening when a hunter drops from 1800 dps in pretty comparable gear to 1600. I mean it's not insane but he should be able to compete with death knights in greens doing 2200.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Oh yeah they do alright. But it's kind of disheartening when a hunter drops from 1800 dps in pretty comparable gear to 1600. I mean it's not insane but he should be able to compete with death knights in greens doing 2200.
DPS is all over the damned board currently, but WWS parses showing Hunters leading on Patchwerk at around 6.6k dps sustained, and most others (beyond a few outliers) being closer to 5k'ish seems a bit off, no?
I imagine it's going to take a few weeks for the bug fixes to finish, everyone to gear up comparably and see where we all stand. Right now the best rogue raid dps spec is apparently done using a group (like 3-5) of rogues subtlety spec'd abusing a bugged talent that generates combo points that have to be seen to be believed. Once that's fixed, I'd hate to be stuck 1.5k behind a ranged class.
And yes, ret paladin and deathknight dps remains pretty damned good, in my experience.
Also, fuck them in Wintergrasp. I see one running around, I run the other way. Those fuckers are just about unstoppable solo currently.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
I just find it odd that a hunter whose DPS is nothing to special gets nerfed while ret paladins and death knights just absolutely rape shit.
Also what is this about AOE tanking and shit getting nerfed? Come on do we have to go back to that god awful system of old? Of course, trade could just be being dumb what with all the anal ruptures.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I have yet to encounter any of these mythical Rape Knights and I've started raiding with 25-man raiding guilds as a hired gun, so ... Ret Paladins are topping charts, yes, but I have yet to see a single Death Knight who wasn't middle-to-bottom of the pack.
I just find it odd that a hunter whose DPS is nothing to special gets nerfed while ret paladins and death knights just absolutely rape shit.
Also what is this about AOE tanking and shit getting nerfed? Come on do we have to go back to that god awful system of old? Of course, trade could just be being dumb what with all the anal ruptures.
1. Hunters as a class had too much dps potential compared to other classes, thus they are getting nerfed. Ret pallies and DKs appear to be, from a dps perspective, in line with where they should be.
2. Where did you read anything about AE tanking getting changed?
I don't know about AoE tanking, but the post about hunters mentions ramping their volley damage back.
And it makes sense, since it was ticking on me the other day for over 2k. Apparently volley went from a joke to serious fucking business in no time flat.
Perhaps they're adjusting other AoE abilities as well, which might have some impact on tanking, but I imagine is more an attempt to reign in dps'ers a little bit.
Especially rogues. I hope they nerf the ever living shit out of rogues.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
The improvements to AE tanking were made so warriors (and druids, I'm guessing) didn't have to spastically tab sunder just to keep threat off the healer, not so people could automatically mow down every group of mobs with AEs. It helps, yeah, but if that were the primary aim they would have buffed AE threat more.
They're likely nerfing AE *damage* from classes capable of it because they don't want the automatic reaction for every pack of 2+ mobs to be "hey, we'll just AE everything." At least that's my impression, and that's what seems to be happening in the groups I've been tanking.
* Mutilate: The Mutilate ability now requires three daggers.
* Hunger for Blood: Bonus reduced to 0% / 0% / 1%
* Fan of Knives: Fan of Knives radius reduced from 8 yards to 5 to be in line with Hunter mechanics
* Fist Weapon Specialization: Talent now reads "Melee attacks made with fist weapons have a chance to apply the Fisted debuff to your foe, reducing movement speed by 70% and dealing (AP * 0.14) damage over 12 seconds."
That Warlock was playing poorly. There are poor players in WoW. More at eleven.
Do you even know what mobs Oboro was talking about? If he wanted to solo it, that's about all he could do. Voidwalker threat is piss poor, and you can't exactly take a hit from those guys yourself. (Well, meta might have a chance at it...)
Unless you mean that he was trying to solo it. That's kind of a dumb move.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
I have yet to encounter any of these mythical Rape Knights and I've started raiding with 25-man raiding guilds as a hired gun, so ... Ret Paladins are topping charts, yes, but I have yet to see a single Death Knight who wasn't middle-to-bottom of the pack.
I have been wondering about the Death Knights on your server, are they using Spell Power gear?
I have yet to encounter any of these mythical Rape Knights and I've started raiding with 25-man raiding guilds as a hired gun, so ... Ret Paladins are topping charts, yes, but I have yet to see a single Death Knight who wasn't middle-to-bottom of the pack.
I have been wondering about the Death Knights on your server, are they using Spell Power gear?
Bowen stop listening to people who aren't me or Dhalphir. Seriously. Or I get out the lock and the sock.
Just one of those things you hear in passing while visiting the AH. Sort of like "wow I hope that doesn't actually happen because that'd fucking suck."
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I have yet to encounter any of these mythical Rape Knights and I've started raiding with 25-man raiding guilds as a hired gun, so ... Ret Paladins are topping charts, yes, but I have yet to see a single Death Knight who wasn't middle-to-bottom of the pack.
I have been wondering about the Death Knights on your server, are they using Spell Power gear?
To slightly crosspost from the rogue thread, last night my raid conducted an interesting test; we took all the dps'ers in the raid, went to a "boss" test dummy in Exodar (and then hit the IF one once we put the Exodar one to min health) and tested to see who was the best dps. Built the groups as best we could, and just went to town.
Ranged from a hunter putting out something like 5-5.5k dps, to me at the bottom putting out 3k dps. However, most of them were flasked, I wasn't, and most of them are in Naxx 10/25 man gear, whereas I'm still wearing mostly Sunwell/Black Temple level gear. I'm pretty happy to hold up a respectable level of dps even against a boss that I'm just barely making par for. My gear is something of a joke now, compared to people rocking T7/7.5.
So they were happy with the outcome, grabbed the top 18 or so dps and went on to get the "kill 25 man Patchwerk in under 3 minutes" achievement.
The only slightly frown worthy part was matching or beating a rogue that's app'ing for a raider spot on both tests. I really shouldn't be anywhere close to a rogue wielding 143 dps Naxx epics while carrying 130 dps dungeon/rep rares.
Well, I shouldn't, but I was. Because I'm the god damned Batman. (okay, or that rogue sucks and needs work/help)
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
Bowen stop listening to people who aren't me or Dhalphir. Seriously. Or I get out the lock and the sock.
Just one of those things you hear in passing while visiting the AH. Sort of like "wow I hope that doesn't actually happen because that'd fucking suck."
Getting info on tanking changes from in game chat is like learning about sex from porn. You'll get the basic mechanics, but you'll get a lot of things that will give you a skewed perception of reality.
A lot of the classes and itemization has changed and a lot of people are unwilling to relearn it. This is what I'm seeing on my server, and it's what's separating the people doing 3k baseline DPS in their Heroic gear from the people who still only do 1.5k.
On an unrelated note, I'm hungry but there's nothing but baked beans to eat, and I'm about to declare bankruptcy, so I don't have any money around to buy food with obviously, so I think I'm going to go to bed instead. I'm ... not sure when the last time I did that was, actually.
Also, it seems like people have "geared up" really quickly in this expansion. As a tank is kind of a pain in the ass. You know how it was impossible to gear up as a tank a year into BC because nobody would take you into heroics with under 15k hp? It's like that now, and it's been less than a month. I've been booted from several pugs because I didn't reach some arbitrary unbuffed hp level that I'm guessing is around 24 or 25k.
Also, I'm kind of happy that the gearing game is running smoothly. Making T7'ish/badge/heroic gear baseline, with regular instances filling in the gaps makes sense. It gives a sense of swift progression; raiders get to catch up and work the early content smoothly, and everyone else wanders along at their own pace / whim of the RNG / grouping availability.
I suspect that like with TBC, 3.1 (hopefully in Q1 '09) will bring more badge gear, T8 raid content, and hopefully some new 5 mans/heroics/etc; raiders can fill in the gaps in their gear, casuals have a higher bar to aim for with whatever level of content they/their group are capable of, and everyone has something to progress towards.
btw, has there been any word on when S5 is supposed to start? I have no interest in arenas, but if the gear is good enough I might be convinced to fail my way to a few minor upgrades, if just to make Wintergrasp less painful while on offense.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
On an unrelated note, I'm hungry but there's nothing but baked beans to eat, and I'm about to declare bankruptcy, so I don't have any money around to buy food with obviously, so I think I'm going to go to bed instead. I'm ... not sure when the last time I did that was, actually.
Um, want half my bagel? That sucks.
Re: the first part of your post -- I have nothing but some late-60 blues and early 70 quest greens. The numbers and gear tiers being casually discussed in this thread make me cry.
btw, has there been any word on when S5 is supposed to start? I have no interest in arenas, but if the gear is good enough I might be convinced to fail my way to a few minor upgrades, if just to make Wintergrasp less painful while on offense.
Next week I think?
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
Posts
Well if people are complaining that content is too easy, it certainly wouldn't make sense to buff all the dps.
That and the post where they talk about the hunter changes mentions they are looking at all other AOE as well.
My Spriest soloed the group quests I have done in Tundra, Fjord, Dragonblight(not the 5 mans). The first group quest I tried that I absolutely could not have done was the Sea Monster in ZD. It is much harder then the dk I am lvling but not really hard to where I wouldn't do it again.
Easy if you've mastered sunwell and played the beta through and through. Otherwise, pretty on par. As I can attest to people not being able to move from walls of fire.
On the first pass through Naxx 10 man, my guild group with only a couple people who had been doing 25-man TBC content rolled 10/15 bosses. That seems a little easy too me. So base on my experience buffing everyone's DPS would have been a bad choice.
Similarly my guild who barely started getting into 25 mans is having a really hard time getting into nax because it's a whole new ballgame to them. Especially ones that need coordination and movement. Consequently noth was no trouble. And no, the guild master isn't in with us. But I find that when pugging into a group that's done even a little bit of some SSC to be a completely different experience. An overall buff to everyone while a minor nerf to hunters would probably be better than TO THE GROUND.
Has the sky fallen on ret pallies yet? I still seem to see plenty around doing competitive damage. (anecdotal of course)
Let Blizzard do their job, they seem to do alright
Glad I didn't have a Ret paladin right after the content patch. Only recently specced Ret and I'm very happy with it... I had no idea I could white crit nearly 7 times in a row in the 1000s... and kill nearly anything without problems.
No chance of being disappointed if I didn't try it un-nerfed!
Oh hell yes, my new guild promoted me to Ranged DPS leader, i spend an inordinate amount of time threatening to beat my charges with a rake unless they start paying attention to something other than big numbers and their cast bars. Had a boomkin tonight that managed to get hit by every single bloody lava wave despite standing about 5 inches from the gap, he refused to bloody move out of that lava for fear it would disrupt a single cast. And we've got a Hunter who seems incapable of grasping the concept of cause and effect, i swear that guy could be outsmarted by yeast.
How soloable is it?
DPS is all over the damned board currently, but WWS parses showing Hunters leading on Patchwerk at around 6.6k dps sustained, and most others (beyond a few outliers) being closer to 5k'ish seems a bit off, no?
I imagine it's going to take a few weeks for the bug fixes to finish, everyone to gear up comparably and see where we all stand. Right now the best rogue raid dps spec is apparently done using a group (like 3-5) of rogues subtlety spec'd abusing a bugged talent that generates combo points that have to be seen to be believed. Once that's fixed, I'd hate to be stuck 1.5k behind a ranged class.
And yes, ret paladin and deathknight dps remains pretty damned good, in my experience.
Also, fuck them in Wintergrasp. I see one running around, I run the other way. Those fuckers are just about unstoppable solo currently.
Also what is this about AOE tanking and shit getting nerfed? Come on do we have to go back to that god awful system of old? Of course, trade could just be being dumb what with all the anal ruptures.
1. Hunters as a class had too much dps potential compared to other classes, thus they are getting nerfed. Ret pallies and DKs appear to be, from a dps perspective, in line with where they should be.
2. Where did you read anything about AE tanking getting changed?
And it makes sense, since it was ticking on me the other day for over 2k. Apparently volley went from a joke to serious fucking business in no time flat.
Perhaps they're adjusting other AoE abilities as well, which might have some impact on tanking, but I imagine is more an attempt to reign in dps'ers a little bit.
Especially rogues. I hope they nerf the ever living shit out of rogues.
B.net: Kusanku
They're likely nerfing AE *damage* from classes capable of it because they don't want the automatic reaction for every pack of 2+ mobs to be "hey, we'll just AE everything." At least that's my impression, and that's what seems to be happening in the groups I've been tanking.
* Hunger for Blood: Bonus reduced to 0% / 0% / 1%
* Fan of Knives: Fan of Knives radius reduced from 8 yards to 5 to be in line with Hunter mechanics
* Fist Weapon Specialization: Talent now reads "Melee attacks made with fist weapons have a chance to apply the Fisted debuff to your foe, reducing movement speed by 70% and dealing (AP * 0.14) damage over 12 seconds."
Do you even know what mobs Oboro was talking about? If he wanted to solo it, that's about all he could do. Voidwalker threat is piss poor, and you can't exactly take a hit from those guys yourself. (Well, meta might have a chance at it...)
Unless you mean that he was trying to solo it. That's kind of a dumb move.
Rogue will now automatically Die after Cloak of Shadows ends........ Please?
I have been wondering about the Death Knights on your server, are they using Spell Power gear?
Better.
Use of cloak of shadows will now incur a 3 hour ban after the fight is over.
Flavor text: "Choose your battles wisely."
Yes how it usually goes for us is:
Ret paladin (2600 dps)
DK (2300 dps)
DK (2200 dps)
Warlock (2000 dps)
Mage (1800 dps)
Paladin (1775 dps)
Warrior (1775 dps)
Druid (600 dps)
Just one of those things you hear in passing while visiting the AH. Sort of like "wow I hope that doesn't actually happen because that'd fucking suck."
And we're just starting to raid, none of us have raid pieces yet -- just heroics except for maybe two quarters' pieces scattered among the classes.
EDIT: I also should mention that we have, on any given raid, 2 or 3 people in that 3500-4000 niche; everyone else is piled around the 2.2k benchmark.
Ranged from a hunter putting out something like 5-5.5k dps, to me at the bottom putting out 3k dps. However, most of them were flasked, I wasn't, and most of them are in Naxx 10/25 man gear, whereas I'm still wearing mostly Sunwell/Black Temple level gear. I'm pretty happy to hold up a respectable level of dps even against a boss that I'm just barely making par for. My gear is something of a joke now, compared to people rocking T7/7.5.
So they were happy with the outcome, grabbed the top 18 or so dps and went on to get the "kill 25 man Patchwerk in under 3 minutes" achievement.
The only slightly frown worthy part was matching or beating a rogue that's app'ing for a raider spot on both tests. I really shouldn't be anywhere close to a rogue wielding 143 dps Naxx epics while carrying 130 dps dungeon/rep rares.
Well, I shouldn't, but I was. Because I'm the god damned Batman. (okay, or that rogue sucks and needs work/help)
Getting info on tanking changes from in game chat is like learning about sex from porn. You'll get the basic mechanics, but you'll get a lot of things that will give you a skewed perception of reality.
On an unrelated note, I'm hungry but there's nothing but baked beans to eat, and I'm about to declare bankruptcy, so I don't have any money around to buy food with obviously, so I think I'm going to go to bed instead. I'm ... not sure when the last time I did that was, actually.
Heh. It looks like nobody cares.
Anyway, for my guild's 10 mans our dps was looking like this last night:
1 - DK
2 - Rogue
3 or 4 - Feral Druid(me as offtank) and BM hunter
5 - Retpally
6 - Warlock
7 - MT Warrior
healers.
I cant remember the DPS numbers, but I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing. Once our MT beat the warlock in the Archavon fight...
AKA [PA]Ilovepandas
1 2 3 4 5
rogue rogue
Also, it seems like people have "geared up" really quickly in this expansion. As a tank is kind of a pain in the ass. You know how it was impossible to gear up as a tank a year into BC because nobody would take you into heroics with under 15k hp? It's like that now, and it's been less than a month. I've been booted from several pugs because I didn't reach some arbitrary unbuffed hp level that I'm guessing is around 24 or 25k.
Best Razorgore diagram ever.
Also, I'm kind of happy that the gearing game is running smoothly. Making T7'ish/badge/heroic gear baseline, with regular instances filling in the gaps makes sense. It gives a sense of swift progression; raiders get to catch up and work the early content smoothly, and everyone else wanders along at their own pace / whim of the RNG / grouping availability.
I suspect that like with TBC, 3.1 (hopefully in Q1 '09) will bring more badge gear, T8 raid content, and hopefully some new 5 mans/heroics/etc; raiders can fill in the gaps in their gear, casuals have a higher bar to aim for with whatever level of content they/their group are capable of, and everyone has something to progress towards.
btw, has there been any word on when S5 is supposed to start? I have no interest in arenas, but if the gear is good enough I might be convinced to fail my way to a few minor upgrades, if just to make Wintergrasp less painful while on offense.
Um, want half my bagel? That sucks.
Re: the first part of your post -- I have nothing but some late-60 blues and early 70 quest greens. The numbers and gear tiers being casually discussed in this thread make me cry.
Next week I think?