I wasn't a poster at a time; but, I remember Tycho and Gabe being royally pissed.
If this is about the Bungie thing and Halo 2, yes it was spam. It was a dumb thread to begin with because it offered no information we cared to hear, and a bunch of Bungie fanboys came in jacking off in the thread. Gabe was the only of the two that was pissed, and I'm pretty sure he was angry because they had just made their deal with Bungie to have Halo 2 shown off at PAX that year.
Edit - And we, his forumers, weren't welcoming them with open arms.
I wasn't a poster at a time; but, I remember Tycho and Gabe being royally pissed.
If this is about the Bungie thing and Halo 2, yes it was spam. It was a dumb thread to begin with because it offered no information we cared to hear, and a bunch of Bungie fanboys came in jacking off in the thread. Gabe was the only of the two that was pissed, and I'm pretty sure he was angry because they had just made their deal with Bungie to have Halo 2 shown off at PAX that year.
Edit - And we, his forumers, weren't welcoming them with open arms.
This. It was a forum raid with a press release attached.
The bungie thing was a big misunderstanding. We should have been forewarned and weren't, but the G&T posters didn't need to be as hostile as they were and I didn't need to ban the bungie rep per se even though he posted under the line I drew.
Around the PA offices I'm still "the guy that banned frankie"
The bungie thing was a big misunderstanding. We should have been forewarned and weren't, but the G&T posters didn't need to be as hostile as they were and I didn't need to ban the bungie rep per se even though he posted under the line I drew.
We were mostly that hostile because for the first few pages we had no idea who Frankie was.
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
edited November 2008
I love how much googlebots love penny arcade.
I searched "Kurtz shuts down his forum" too see if there was anything I might have missed or facts that were overlooked, and the first three hits are this thread.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
People get pretty fired up over their forum communities, and feel a sense of entitlement where there really is none.
However, that being said, some notice would be nice, so that if these people had some relationships that they wished to continue, they could plan appropriately.
I used to be a regular on the gonegold.com forums back in the day, and it sucked when it went belly up because there were some genuinely cool people there, but I had no clue how to contact any of them after Rich closed the doors.
I also remember there was a mass exodus from the "place" when they did a forum split, because their version of D&D had become an unruly mess of politics and what not, and someone felt the need to separate all of the contentious type threads from the more conversational (less political) one. A lot of people were absolutely furious, which I just never understood.
SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
edited November 2008
Notice would have been nice, but considering the circumstances it was not practical at all, or even necessary. These people aren't owed anything. Giving them some time to organize an exodus to a new forum while the clock is ticking and a whole slew of websites can be shut down because of the time wasted on this, is ridiculous.
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
edited November 2008
Well, the issue was Kurtz was a little different because he only wanted a forum where people discussed his comics. Which is fine. Kellet and Guigar both have that, because they worked hard to develop that specific community mindset, and they also have a smaller readership. Kurtz has one of the largest, and doing what he wants with a forum is impossible unless he creates each thread himself.
He's done this before, pulled the plug on a forum because it wasn't what he wanted. He should have just built a system for users to comment about specific things only, and left it at that, having Straub make a forum and then just leaving it to the wolves was his own fault.
I think that when a fan of anything purchases the product, the pact between artist and fan is complete. No artist owes the fan something for buying their product for years, the reward for the fan was the product itself. Alice Cooper doesn't owe me shit just because I go to all his concerts
You realize you're basically flying in the face of like 99% of the internet here. Not that I disagree with you, I've been saying the same thing for years, but there are entire huge communities and fandoms that basically exist because people feel they are owed something for watching Buffy for ten years or whatever.
Absolutely. I don't think that makes what I say any less valid. The entitlement complex is something I deal with pretty much every day. Gabe has a similar view; I remember when someone made a thread about the game called "The $20 problem" and Gabe eventually replied with "It's not a problem. If you think it's too much, don't buy it."
It's an argument I had over and over and over and over again when DLC was the hot button issue of the day. People were saying "Horse armour?! This is bullshit! I don't want that!" without considering that no one was forcing them to buy it. They felt like they were entitled to something even if they didn't know what it was. City Of Heroes routinely has free expansion packs released. People bitch when they're not on time, if they don't like what the new free stuff is or whatever.
It is entirely a generational thing and isn't tied to either the internet or commerce, either. People nowadays - gamers, geeks, and normies alike - think they are entitled to have everything they want provided for them on a silver platter, and for free, if possible. And once you give them even the tiniest window, they will reach into that window, take everything that isn't nailed down, and run the fuck away.
I know the thread has moved away from this but this idea is a pretty common topic among my friends (who typcally range in the 25-35 range) and while I agree with its existence, I'm wondering why this pattern exists. How does an entire generation get a sense of entitlement? I don't think it necessarily hinges entirely on affluence because I know my brother has one and we grew up as welfare kids. But from the way he deals with his car (which is really my dad's car because guess who's making the payments), the way he immediately turned his nose up at an office job which would've relegated him to secretarial stuff (which admittedly wouldn't be good use of his business degree but would've been a lot more appropriate than his wait staff job), his sense of "I'm supposed to get this and that" is pretty obvious.
For comparison, I'm 2 years younger than my brother and I really have no "I am owed this" (not to toot my own horn). I drive an old car (at least 15+ years) right now, property of my father, and it is the very first time I've had my own transportation. Yet if my dad was to call me 5 minutes from now and told me he was taking the car back, I wouldn't even blink. I'd say "All right, I'll meet you downstairs in 5 and give you the keys back. Thanks for the car and free gas!" When I get things for free, I'm typically very happy to have them. And if I don't get anything for free, then life is unchanged. I just find it really odd the difference between me and my brother, considering we grew up in the same "do without" household.
Haha one of my older friends who's been a teacher for... 6 or 7 years, was talking about much of the same thing with some of the student/teachers he's been encountering. About the most outrageous statement he could remember hearing was "What? I don't get paid for my marking?"
I think that when a fan of anything purchases the product, the pact between artist and fan is complete. No artist owes the fan something for buying their product for years, the reward for the fan was the product itself. Alice Cooper doesn't owe me shit just because I go to all his concerts
You realize you're basically flying in the face of like 99% of the internet here. Not that I disagree with you, I've been saying the same thing for years, but there are entire huge communities and fandoms that basically exist because people feel they are owed something for watching Buffy for ten years or whatever.
Absolutely. I don't think that makes what I say any less valid. The entitlement complex is something I deal with pretty much every day. Gabe has a similar view; I remember when someone made a thread about the game called "The $20 problem" and Gabe eventually replied with "It's not a problem. If you think it's too much, don't buy it."
It's an argument I had over and over and over and over again when DLC was the hot button issue of the day. People were saying "Horse armour?! This is bullshit! I don't want that!" without considering that no one was forcing them to buy it. They felt like they were entitled to something even if they didn't know what it was. City Of Heroes routinely has free expansion packs released. People bitch when they're not on time, if they don't like what the new free stuff is or whatever.
It is entirely a generational thing and isn't tied to either the internet or commerce, either. People nowadays - gamers, geeks, and normies alike - think they are entitled to have everything they want provided for them on a silver platter, and for free, if possible. And once you give them even the tiniest window, they will reach into that window, take everything that isn't nailed down, and run the fuck away.
I know the thread has moved away from this but this idea is a pretty common topic among my friends (who typcally range in the 25-35 range) and while I agree with its existence, I'm wondering why this pattern exists. How does an entire generation get a sense of entitlement? I don't think it necessarily hinges entirely on affluence because I know my brother has one and we grew up as welfare kids. But from the way he deals with his car (which is really my dad's car because guess who's making the payments), the way he immediately turned his nose up at an office job which would've relegated him to secretarial stuff (which admittedly wouldn't be good use of his business degree but would've been a lot more appropriate than his wait staff job), his sense of "I'm supposed to get this and that" is pretty obvious.
For comparison, I'm 2 years younger than my brother and I really have no "I am owed this" (not to toot my own horn). I drive an old car (at least 15+ years) right now, property of my father, and it is the very first time I've had my own transportation. Yet if my dad was to call me 5 minutes from now and told me he was taking the car back, I wouldn't even blink. I'd say "All right, I'll meet you downstairs in 5 and give you the keys back. Thanks for the car and free gas!" When I get things for free, I'm typically very happy to have them. And if I don't get anything for free, then life is unchanged. I just find it really odd the difference between me and my brother, considering we grew up in the same "do without" household.
Haha one of my older friends who's been a teacher for... 6 or 7 years, was talking about much of the same thing with some of the student/teachers he's been encountering. About the most outrageous statement he could remember hearing was "What? I don't get paid for my marking?"
I don't really know, but I'd like to. I hope sociologists are at least pondering this and can provide some kind of viewpoint on this at some point in the future so I can read about why my generation is/was, generally speaking, a collective piece of shit.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Scott Kurtz is an actual human being who is close friends with the owners of this forum and comments like that are mean spirited and in very poor taste. He's done nothing to you.
The comment may have been in poor taste (and more sarcastic than anything, really), but looking at the man I can with some certainty he's going to bite the dust unless he does something to change his current health. He looks sickly. The dark rings under his eyes just further that.
As far as the forums go, people on forums tend to rabblerouse over anything. Forums are like peoples safe-zones away from the daily grind, a sort of untouchable paradise where they can express themselves freely without much retribution. They tend to get in the mindset that it's "theirs", however, and when the people who actually own it make changes, they flip out.
It's one of the most common occurences in online communities. I remember when people changed the board structure of 1up to resemble NeoGAF (3 boards instead of 52), the entire place exploded in some sort of net fury.
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
Scott Kurtz is an actual human being who is close friends with the owners of this forum and comments like that are mean spirited and in very poor taste. He's done nothing to you.
The comment may have been in poor taste (and more sarcastic than anything, really), but looking at the man I can with some certainty he's going to bite the dust unless he does something to change his current health. He looks sickly. The dark rings under his eyes just further that.
I don't know the date on that photo, but kurtz has lost somewhere in the ballpark of 200 pounds trying to get healthier. Just fyi.
Scott Kurtz is an actual human being who is close friends with the owners of this forum and comments like that are mean spirited and in very poor taste. He's done nothing to you.
The comment may have been in poor taste (and more sarcastic than anything, really), but looking at the man I can with some certainty he's going to bite the dust unless he does something to change his current health. He looks sickly. The dark rings under his eyes just further that.
As far as the forums go, people on forums tend to rabblerouse over anything. Forums are like peoples safe-zones away from the daily grind, a sort of untouchable paradise where they can express themselves freely without much retribution. They tend to get in the mindset that it's "theirs", however, and when the people who actually own it make changes, they flip out.
It's one of the most common occurences in online communities. I remember when people changed the board structure of 1up to resemble NeoGAF (3 boards instead of 52), the entire place exploded in some sort of net fury.
Yeah but commenting on his health isn't at all relevant and saying "...can take comfort that...he'll die soon" is completely dickish in any context. It's not the "he'll die soon" that is dickish - that's just your conclusion based on what you observe - it's the "...can take comfort that..." part that is assholey.
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
I don't really know, but I'd like to. I hope sociologists are at least pondering this and can provide some kind of viewpoint on this at some point in the future so I can read about why my generation is/was, generally speaking, a collective piece of shit.
Has there ever been a generation who is taught, really, indoctrinated with the phrase "Do what you want with your life and don't let anyone stand in your way." I remember my childhood being filled by teaches telling me that the sky's the limit, follow my dreams, don't listen to people who tell me what I can't do, etc. We were trying to tell kids to choose the best life for themselves and instead I think we taught kids that the world owes them something.
I don't really know, but I'd like to. I hope sociologists are at least pondering this and can provide some kind of viewpoint on this at some point in the future so I can read about why my generation is/was, generally speaking, a collective piece of shit.
Has there ever been a generation who is taught, really, indoctrinated with the phrase "Do what you want with your life and don't let anyone stand in your way." I remember my childhood being filled by teaches telling me that the sky's the limit, follow my dreams, don't listen to people who tell me what I can't do, etc. We were trying to tell kids to choose the best life for themselves and instead I think we taught kids that the world owes them something.
There's nothing wrong with telling people to shoot for the top.
It's just you also have to tell them not to shoot everyone else to get there.
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
I don't really know, but I'd like to. I hope sociologists are at least pondering this and can provide some kind of viewpoint on this at some point in the future so I can read about why my generation is/was, generally speaking, a collective piece of shit.
Has there ever been a generation who is taught, really, indoctrinated with the phrase "Do what you want with your life and don't let anyone stand in your way." I remember my childhood being filled by teaches telling me that the sky's the limit, follow my dreams, don't listen to people who tell me what I can't do, etc. We were trying to tell kids to choose the best life for themselves and instead I think we taught kids that the world owes them something.
There's nothing wrong with telling people to shoot for the top.
It's just you also have to tell them not to shoot everyone else to get there.
I agree and I think that's the part we missed. There was no tempering lesson to go with the galvanizing.
Scott Kurtz is an actual human being who is close friends with the owners of this forum and comments like that are mean spirited and in very poor taste. He's done nothing to you.
The comment may have been in poor taste (and more sarcastic than anything, really), but looking at the man I can with some certainty he's going to bite the dust unless he does something to change his current health. He looks sickly. The dark rings under his eyes just further that.
As far as the forums go, people on forums tend to rabblerouse over anything. Forums are like peoples safe-zones away from the daily grind, a sort of untouchable paradise where they can express themselves freely without much retribution. They tend to get in the mindset that it's "theirs", however, and when the people who actually own it make changes, they flip out.
It's one of the most common occurences in online communities. I remember when people changed the board structure of 1up to resemble NeoGAF (3 boards instead of 52), the entire place exploded in some sort of net fury.
Yeah but commenting on his health isn't at all relevant and saying "...can take comfort that...he'll die soon" is completely dickish in any context. It's not the "he'll die soon" that is dickish - that's just your conclusion based on what you observe - it's the "...can take comfort that..." part that is assholey.
Yeah, very true. I apologize then. I was trying to get in the head of the common firebreathing forum stalwart and ended up sounding like a dick.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Scott Kurtz is an actual human being who is close friends with the owners of this forum and comments like that are mean spirited and in very poor taste. He's done nothing to you.
The comment may have been in poor taste (and more sarcastic than anything, really), but looking at the man I can with some certainty he's going to bite the dust unless he does something to change his current health. He looks sickly. The dark rings under his eyes just further that.
I don't know the date on that photo, but kurtz has lost somewhere in the ballpark of 200 pounds trying to get healthier. Just fyi.
Commendable. Being a former major-fatty (350 lbs) and having lost almost 200 I give the guy props. It's not an easy thing to do, especially when your career choice is rather sedentary.
I don't really know, but I'd like to. I hope sociologists are at least pondering this and can provide some kind of viewpoint on this at some point in the future so I can read about why my generation is/was, generally speaking, a collective piece of shit.
Has there ever been a generation who is taught, really, indoctrinated with the phrase "Do what you want with your life and don't let anyone stand in your way." I remember my childhood being filled by teaches telling me that the sky's the limit, follow my dreams, don't listen to people who tell me what I can't do, etc. We were trying to tell kids to choose the best life for themselves and instead I think we taught kids that the world owes them something.
Hmm... my brain can't really connect the two. How would the original message get changed in the sense of entitlement?
Maybe it was the whole "Everyone is unique and special!" thing that did it. Or would that fall under the "Reach for the stars" theme?
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
I don't really know, but I'd like to. I hope sociologists are at least pondering this and can provide some kind of viewpoint on this at some point in the future so I can read about why my generation is/was, generally speaking, a collective piece of shit.
Has there ever been a generation who is taught, really, indoctrinated with the phrase "Do what you want with your life and don't let anyone stand in your way." I remember my childhood being filled by teaches telling me that the sky's the limit, follow my dreams, don't listen to people who tell me what I can't do, etc. We were trying to tell kids to choose the best life for themselves and instead I think we taught kids that the world owes them something.
Hmm... my brain can't really connect the two. How would the original message get changed in the sense of entitlement?
Maybe it was the whole "Everyone is unique and special!" thing that did it. Or would that fall under the "Reach for the stars" theme?
I think it teaches kids that the only things that can limit them are other people, so these kids grow up thinking that whenever something bad happens, or something goes wrong in their life, it's somebody else's fault.
We've also failed at teaching kids a sense of personal responsibility, which is tied into the same concept. So in the end, they feel that the world owes them something for every thing that's gone wrong with their lives.
I don't really know, but I'd like to. I hope sociologists are at least pondering this and can provide some kind of viewpoint on this at some point in the future so I can read about why my generation is/was, generally speaking, a collective piece of shit.
Has there ever been a generation who is taught, really, indoctrinated with the phrase "Do what you want with your life and don't let anyone stand in your way." I remember my childhood being filled by teaches telling me that the sky's the limit, follow my dreams, don't listen to people who tell me what I can't do, etc. We were trying to tell kids to choose the best life for themselves and instead I think we taught kids that the world owes them something.
Hmm... my brain can't really connect the two. How would the original message get changed in the sense of entitlement?
Maybe it was the whole "Everyone is unique and special!" thing that did it. Or would that fall under the "Reach for the stars" theme?
I think it teaches kids that the only things that can limit them are other people, so these kids grow up thinking that whenever something bad happens, or something goes wrong in their life, it's somebody else's fault.
We've also failed at teaching kids a sense of personal responsibility, which is tied into the same concept. So in the end, they feel that the world owes them something for every thing that's gone wrong with their lives.
Generally speaking, it's a really good idea for artists to stay the hell out of their forums.
I hear the Order of the Stick guy hates his forums.
Forums are the main reason I gave up ownership of a fairly popular website.
I gave it up to one of the forumers. And now that site's a shit hole.
Were you the one who had the H/A thread about the other mods on a popular site wanting to have a 'hot babes' thread?
Nah.
Last thing I was involved with in that particular site was a huge argument over whether or not we should clamp down on NSFW discussions and threads due to "our investors not liking that content".
Like Tube's explained in this thread, the forums were only a very small side of the overall site, especially in terms of traffic, and no game company has the legitimacy to complain about the discussion on our forums when the games we advertised and reviewed were full of scantily clad women. Well, even though I ran the damn place, I got vetoed, the forums were clamped down hardcore on moderating.
Now the new admin and site owner has been asking for donations to keep the site alive.
I ran the place, we made revenue, got invited to sexy industry parties, quoted on game boxes, gave away tons of free and rare shit and in a year of my absence the main page is rarely updated and they've resorted to begging for any type of sustaining motion.
It also doesn't help that most parents I see completely and utterly cave into their children whining for things they don't actually need.
Yes. I mean I actually got hella presents from my folks, but only at their whim, and they worked my ass -hard-.
Urban and suburban kids just don't have access to that kind of work most of the time. It's hard to punish kids with just sitting in their rooms full of crap, especially if the parents have no patience or energy left from their day.
I don't really know, but I'd like to. I hope sociologists are at least pondering this and can provide some kind of viewpoint on this at some point in the future so I can read about why my generation is/was, generally speaking, a collective piece of shit.
Has there ever been a generation who is taught, really, indoctrinated with the phrase "Do what you want with your life and don't let anyone stand in your way." I remember my childhood being filled by teaches telling me that the sky's the limit, follow my dreams, don't listen to people who tell me what I can't do, etc. We were trying to tell kids to choose the best life for themselves and instead I think we taught kids that the world owes them something.
Hmm... my brain can't really connect the two. How would the original message get changed in the sense of entitlement?
Maybe it was the whole "Everyone is unique and special!" thing that did it. Or would that fall under the "Reach for the stars" theme?
I think it teaches kids that the only things that can limit them are other people, so these kids grow up thinking that whenever something bad happens, or something goes wrong in their life, it's somebody else's fault.
We've also failed at teaching kids a sense of personal responsibility, which is tied into the same concept. So in the end, they feel that the world owes them something for every thing that's gone wrong with their lives.
Ohhh, ok yes, that would make sense. They really do seem to point the finger at everyone else except themselves...
Yeah. I mean, I can't count the number of times I've heard a student complaining and moaning about how unfair and mean their teacher is for the grade they got on a paper, and then I look at the paper and it's complete and utter crap. Like, just terrible.
But nah, it's gotta be the teacher's fault.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
It also doesn't help that most parents I see completely and utterly cave into their children whining for things they don't actually need.
Yes. I mean I actually got hella presents from my folks, but only at their whim, and they worked my ass -hard-.
Urban and suburban kids just don't have access to that kind of work most of the time. It's hard to punish kids with just sitting in their rooms full of crap, especially if the parents have no patience or energy left from their day.
One day I got caught skipping school, they phoned ahead to my parents and when I got home they told me I was grounded to my room for a month. I thought, "Oh no, my TV and Super Nintendo and CD player and computer? What a punishment!!"
So I get to my room and see it completely bare. There was a mattress with a pillow on it and my clothes were in a pile in the middle of the floor. I turned around and my dad said I needed to work to get my stuff back, to do chores and such. I spent almost 2 months getting everything back that was in there. I still, to this day, believe that was the greatest punishment my parents ever gave me.
It also doesn't help that most parents I see completely and utterly cave into their children whining for things they don't actually need.
Yes. I mean I actually got hella presents from my folks, but only at their whim, and they worked my ass -hard-.
Urban and suburban kids just don't have access to that kind of work most of the time. It's hard to punish kids with just sitting in their rooms full of crap, especially if the parents have no patience or energy left from their day.
One day I got caught skipping school, they phoned ahead to my parents and when I got home they told me I was grounded to my room for a month. I thought, "Oh no, my TV and Super Nintendo and CD player and computer? What a punishment!!"
So I get to my room and see it completely bare. There was a mattress with a pillow on it and my clothes were in a pile in the middle of the floor. I turned around and my dad said I needed to work to get my stuff back, to do chores and such. I spent almost 2 months getting everything back that was in there. I still, to this day, believe that was the greatest punishment my parents ever gave me.
Now did you ever attempt to covertly repo your own stuff? I think some parents might see this option as fruitless if they didn't believe they could enforce it. But then the inability to control their kids would still fall at their feet so anyway you cut it, it really is on them.
It also doesn't help that most parents I see completely and utterly cave into their children whining for things they don't actually need.
Yes. I mean I actually got hella presents from my folks, but only at their whim, and they worked my ass -hard-.
Urban and suburban kids just don't have access to that kind of work most of the time. It's hard to punish kids with just sitting in their rooms full of crap, especially if the parents have no patience or energy left from their day.
One day I got caught skipping school, they phoned ahead to my parents and when I got home they told me I was grounded to my room for a month. I thought, "Oh no, my TV and Super Nintendo and CD player and computer? What a punishment!!"
So I get to my room and see it completely bare. There was a mattress with a pillow on it and my clothes were in a pile in the middle of the floor. I turned around and my dad said I needed to work to get my stuff back, to do chores and such. I spent almost 2 months getting everything back that was in there. I still, to this day, believe that was the greatest punishment my parents ever gave me.
Now did you ever attempt to covertly repo your own stuff? I think some parents might see this option as fruitless if they didn't believe they could enforce it. But then the inability to control their kids would still fall at their feet so anyway you cut it, it really is on them.
Well, there would be nowhere to hide anything, and I imagine that when my dad would say "OKAY, THIS LAWN CARE TIME WILL EARN YOU BACK YOUR NINTEN... HEY WAIT WHERES THE NINTENDO?" the process would start all over again.
My parents had a huge lock on the attic and it was a combo lock. It was mostly to keep us out of there since it was unfinished and potentially dangerous, but in this case it kept me out of there because it held all the real valuable stuff from my room.
Posts
He may have gotten alot wrong in TH, but he's dead on on this one.
:P
If this is about the Bungie thing and Halo 2, yes it was spam. It was a dumb thread to begin with because it offered no information we cared to hear, and a bunch of Bungie fanboys came in jacking off in the thread. Gabe was the only of the two that was pissed, and I'm pretty sure he was angry because they had just made their deal with Bungie to have Halo 2 shown off at PAX that year.
Edit - And we, his forumers, weren't welcoming them with open arms.
This. It was a forum raid with a press release attached.
Around the PA offices I'm still "the guy that banned frankie"
I was a poster at the time and I actually posted in that thread.
Bungie was essentially sitewhoring.
edit: We certainly didn't need to be that hostile, I agree, but he was doing exactly the same thing other sitewhores do. *shrug* Live and learn.
We were mostly that hostile because for the first few pages we had no idea who Frankie was.
I searched "Kurtz shuts down his forum" too see if there was anything I might have missed or facts that were overlooked, and the first three hits are this thread.
I think that time you banned an entire subnet was even better.
Didn't microsoft do that to the guy who twice posted the hack to get a free gold lancer in GOW2 in the Epic forums?
However, that being said, some notice would be nice, so that if these people had some relationships that they wished to continue, they could plan appropriately.
I used to be a regular on the gonegold.com forums back in the day, and it sucked when it went belly up because there were some genuinely cool people there, but I had no clue how to contact any of them after Rich closed the doors.
I also remember there was a mass exodus from the "place" when they did a forum split, because their version of D&D had become an unruly mess of politics and what not, and someone felt the need to separate all of the contentious type threads from the more conversational (less political) one. A lot of people were absolutely furious, which I just never understood.
He's done this before, pulled the plug on a forum because it wasn't what he wanted. He should have just built a system for users to comment about specific things only, and left it at that, having Straub make a forum and then just leaving it to the wolves was his own fault.
Pfft, I did it just because I'd had a bad day.
That's why we respect and fear you tube.
edit: heh, you tube
I know the thread has moved away from this but this idea is a pretty common topic among my friends (who typcally range in the 25-35 range) and while I agree with its existence, I'm wondering why this pattern exists. How does an entire generation get a sense of entitlement? I don't think it necessarily hinges entirely on affluence because I know my brother has one and we grew up as welfare kids. But from the way he deals with his car (which is really my dad's car because guess who's making the payments), the way he immediately turned his nose up at an office job which would've relegated him to secretarial stuff (which admittedly wouldn't be good use of his business degree but would've been a lot more appropriate than his wait staff job), his sense of "I'm supposed to get this and that" is pretty obvious.
For comparison, I'm 2 years younger than my brother and I really have no "I am owed this" (not to toot my own horn). I drive an old car (at least 15+ years) right now, property of my father, and it is the very first time I've had my own transportation. Yet if my dad was to call me 5 minutes from now and told me he was taking the car back, I wouldn't even blink. I'd say "All right, I'll meet you downstairs in 5 and give you the keys back. Thanks for the car and free gas!" When I get things for free, I'm typically very happy to have them. And if I don't get anything for free, then life is unchanged. I just find it really odd the difference between me and my brother, considering we grew up in the same "do without" household.
Haha one of my older friends who's been a teacher for... 6 or 7 years, was talking about much of the same thing with some of the student/teachers he's been encountering. About the most outrageous statement he could remember hearing was "What? I don't get paid for my marking?"
I don't really know, but I'd like to. I hope sociologists are at least pondering this and can provide some kind of viewpoint on this at some point in the future so I can read about why my generation is/was, generally speaking, a collective piece of shit.
The comment may have been in poor taste (and more sarcastic than anything, really), but looking at the man I can with some certainty he's going to bite the dust unless he does something to change his current health. He looks sickly. The dark rings under his eyes just further that.
As far as the forums go, people on forums tend to rabblerouse over anything. Forums are like peoples safe-zones away from the daily grind, a sort of untouchable paradise where they can express themselves freely without much retribution. They tend to get in the mindset that it's "theirs", however, and when the people who actually own it make changes, they flip out.
It's one of the most common occurences in online communities. I remember when people changed the board structure of 1up to resemble NeoGAF (3 boards instead of 52), the entire place exploded in some sort of net fury.
I don't know the date on that photo, but kurtz has lost somewhere in the ballpark of 200 pounds trying to get healthier. Just fyi.
Were you the one who had the H/A thread about the other mods on a popular site wanting to have a 'hot babes' thread?
Yeah but commenting on his health isn't at all relevant and saying "...can take comfort that...he'll die soon" is completely dickish in any context. It's not the "he'll die soon" that is dickish - that's just your conclusion based on what you observe - it's the "...can take comfort that..." part that is assholey.
Has there ever been a generation who is taught, really, indoctrinated with the phrase "Do what you want with your life and don't let anyone stand in your way." I remember my childhood being filled by teaches telling me that the sky's the limit, follow my dreams, don't listen to people who tell me what I can't do, etc. We were trying to tell kids to choose the best life for themselves and instead I think we taught kids that the world owes them something.
There's nothing wrong with telling people to shoot for the top.
It's just you also have to tell them not to shoot everyone else to get there.
I agree and I think that's the part we missed. There was no tempering lesson to go with the galvanizing.
Yeah, very true. I apologize then. I was trying to get in the head of the common firebreathing forum stalwart and ended up sounding like a dick.
Commendable. Being a former major-fatty (350 lbs) and having lost almost 200 I give the guy props. It's not an easy thing to do, especially when your career choice is rather sedentary.
It also doesn't help that most parents I see completely and utterly cave into their children whining for things they don't actually need.
Hmm... my brain can't really connect the two. How would the original message get changed in the sense of entitlement?
Maybe it was the whole "Everyone is unique and special!" thing that did it. Or would that fall under the "Reach for the stars" theme?
I think it teaches kids that the only things that can limit them are other people, so these kids grow up thinking that whenever something bad happens, or something goes wrong in their life, it's somebody else's fault.
We've also failed at teaching kids a sense of personal responsibility, which is tied into the same concept. So in the end, they feel that the world owes them something for every thing that's gone wrong with their lives.
Yes.
This is exactly how I feel.
Nah.
Last thing I was involved with in that particular site was a huge argument over whether or not we should clamp down on NSFW discussions and threads due to "our investors not liking that content".
Like Tube's explained in this thread, the forums were only a very small side of the overall site, especially in terms of traffic, and no game company has the legitimacy to complain about the discussion on our forums when the games we advertised and reviewed were full of scantily clad women. Well, even though I ran the damn place, I got vetoed, the forums were clamped down hardcore on moderating.
Now the new admin and site owner has been asking for donations to keep the site alive.
I ran the place, we made revenue, got invited to sexy industry parties, quoted on game boxes, gave away tons of free and rare shit and in a year of my absence the main page is rarely updated and they've resorted to begging for any type of sustaining motion.
Yes. I mean I actually got hella presents from my folks, but only at their whim, and they worked my ass -hard-.
Urban and suburban kids just don't have access to that kind of work most of the time. It's hard to punish kids with just sitting in their rooms full of crap, especially if the parents have no patience or energy left from their day.
Ohhh, ok yes, that would make sense. They really do seem to point the finger at everyone else except themselves...
But nah, it's gotta be the teacher's fault.
One day I got caught skipping school, they phoned ahead to my parents and when I got home they told me I was grounded to my room for a month. I thought, "Oh no, my TV and Super Nintendo and CD player and computer? What a punishment!!"
So I get to my room and see it completely bare. There was a mattress with a pillow on it and my clothes were in a pile in the middle of the floor. I turned around and my dad said I needed to work to get my stuff back, to do chores and such. I spent almost 2 months getting everything back that was in there. I still, to this day, believe that was the greatest punishment my parents ever gave me.
That is the proper way to punish a kid.
You show them real-world consequences.
When you break the rules shit gets confiscated. And until you earn it back you get to be hella bored.
Now did you ever attempt to covertly repo your own stuff? I think some parents might see this option as fruitless if they didn't believe they could enforce it. But then the inability to control their kids would still fall at their feet so anyway you cut it, it really is on them.
Well, there would be nowhere to hide anything, and I imagine that when my dad would say "OKAY, THIS LAWN CARE TIME WILL EARN YOU BACK YOUR NINTEN... HEY WAIT WHERES THE NINTENDO?" the process would start all over again.
My parents had a huge lock on the attic and it was a combo lock. It was mostly to keep us out of there since it was unfinished and potentially dangerous, but in this case it kept me out of there because it held all the real valuable stuff from my room.