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Book on evolution

Ghandi 2Ghandi 2 Registered User regular
edited December 2008 in Help / Advice Forum
I guess this is a good place to ask. People repeatedly say on D&D and whatnot "If you think that evolution cannot be fully explained by materialistic processes (i.e. any form of Intelligent Design), then you are ignorant of the evidence." Fair enough, so what is a good explanation of evolution beyond the natural selection spiel we all know? I would prefer something that could be borrowed from the library and keeps the anti-religion overtones to a minimum. I am also a layman, so overly technical work will just go over my head.

Thanks. I would also appreciate it if the athiest athiests refrained from calling me stupid, just this once. ;-)

Ghandi 2 on

Posts

  • RUNN1NGMANRUNN1NGMAN Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    The Blind Watchmaker—just skip that parts where he argues against the existence of God, although in honesty, it does anyone good to read persuasive arguments that you don't in the end agree with. You shouldn't be afraid to read different viewpoints than yours, unless the real fear is that they are going to punch holes in your faith that you can't fill. You'll not find a better argument for natural selection, or more readable one, than this book.

    RUNN1NGMAN on
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    If you're just looking for a basic explanation of evolution, a slightly more detailed "natural selection spiel" should be sufficient, but if you're looking for actual books about it, anything by Stephen Jay Gould, like Even Since Darwin, The Panda's Thumb, or The Flamingo's Smile are good choices.

    edit: looks like at least one of them are on Google books. I found The Richness of Life there.

    TychoCelchuuu on
  • Golden LegGolden Leg Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Darwin's "On the Origin of Species" is a tough read, but that's where it all started.

    There is an interesting book you might like. "Finding Darwin's God," by Ken Miller. Despite the author's faith, it's a very plain and balanced look at the current I.D. vs. Evolution business.

    If you want to meddle in a little philosophy, Immanuel Kant's "Critique of Pure Reason" is a good read, and Carl Jung's essay, "The Difference Between Eastern and Western Thinking," is a pleasant eye-opener. These are not immediately related to your search, but may help you think about things a little differently.

    Golden Leg on
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I just suggested The Selfish Gene by Dawkins and Adaptation and Natural Selection by Williams in the D&D book thread.

    They are basically the sequels to Darwins On the Origin of Species.

    Burtletoy on
  • As7As7 Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Just so you're aware.

    Natural selection is, perhaps, the most easily explainable aspect of the evolutionary process.

    When you look past that you get into genetics, heredity, ecology, and a lot of other complicated science. Some of the books people recommended should help, though. As boring as it might seem, I would recommend checking out a text book for the lowest level Evolution class you can find. The beginning of each chapter should be chalk full of simple to understand information and there will be a glossary, summary of each chapter, and references.

    As7 on
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  • LadyMLadyM Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Yeah, my suggestion would be a basic biology textbook.

    I wouldn't suggest Origin of the Species unless you enjoy very dense, heavy prose from that century.

    This book has some good reviews (though I haven't read it myself) and it doesn't sound like it has any "olol God is imaginary!" in it: http://www.amazon.com/Science-Evolution-Creationism-National-Sciences/dp/0309105862/ref=pd_bbs_sr_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228279170&sr=8-6

    LadyM on
  • Dublo7Dublo7 Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    The Ancestor's Tale by Richard Dawkins It's possibly the greatest book I've read.

    "Just as we trace our personal family trees from parents to grandparents and so on back in time, so in The Ancestor's Tale Richard Dawkins traces the ancestry of life. As he is at pains to point out, this is very much our human tale, our ancestry. Surprisingly, it is one that many otherwise literate people are largely unaware of. Hopefully Dawkins's name and well deserved reputation as a best selling writer will introduce them to this wonderful saga.

    The Ancestor's Tale takes us from our immediate human ancestors back through what he calls ‘concestors,’ those shared with the apes, monkeys and other mammals and other vertebrates and beyond to the dim and distant microbial beginnings of life some 4 billion years ago. It is a remarkable story which is still very much in the process of being uncovered. And, of course from a scientist of Dawkins stature and reputation we get an insider's knowledge of the most up-to-date science and many of those involved in the research. And, as we have come to expect of Dawkins, it is told with a passionate commitment to scientific veracity and a nose for a good story. Dawkins's knowledge of the vast and wonderful sweep of life's diversity is admirable. Not only does it encompass the most interesting living representatives of so many groups of organisms but also the important and informative fossil ones, many of which have only been found in recent years.

    Dawkins sees his journey with its reverse chronology as ‘cast in the form of an epic pilgrimage from the present to the past [and] all roads lead to the origin of life.’ It is, to my mind, a sensible and perfectly acceptable approach although some might complain about going against the grain of evolution. The great benefit for the general reader is that it begins with the more familiar present and the animals nearest and dearest to us—our immediate human ancestors. And then it delves back into the more remote and less familiar past with its droves of lesser known and extinct fossil forms. The whole pilgrimage is divided into 40 tales, each based around a group of organisms and discusses their role in the overall story. Genetic, morphological and fossil evidence is all taken into account and illustrated with a wealth of photos and drawings of living and fossils forms, evolutionary and distributional charts and maps through time, providing a visual compliment and complement to the text. The design also allows Dawkins to make numerous running comments and characteristic asides."

    Also, The Selfish Gene. This novel completely changed the way I look at biology and life as a whole. It's incredible.

    Dublo7 on
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  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    LadyM wrote: »
    Yeah, my suggestion would be a basic biology textbook.

    I wouldn't suggest Origin of the Species unless you enjoy very dense, heavy prose from that century.

    This book has some good reviews (though I haven't read it myself) and it doesn't sound like it has any "olol God is imaginary!" in it: http://www.amazon.com/Science-Evolution-Creationism-National-Sciences/dp/0309105862/ref=pd_bbs_sr_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228279170&sr=8-6

    So when you said "textbook" it made me think of the only textbook I've ever enjoyed reading, Evolutionary Analysis, which seemed like a pretty unimaginative title so I was googling to Google and link it and then I came across this.

    http://wps.prenhall.com/esm_freeman_evol_3/12/3315/848837.cw/index.html

    I guess that is the companion site that goes with the text? It doesn't have quite the information I would've hoped, but that was the book. It is amazing.

    Burtletoy on
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    From the evidence the OP is asking for, any single book really won't cut it - you'd have to dig through a lot of journals, as well - several of the key things that ID proponents say are irreducibly complex (certain enzymes required by nearly all life, bacterial flagella) have been shown to spontaneously evolve in laboratory samples, but I don't know of many books that cover it all in detail, btt have fun tracking down the research - a lot of it may get little more than a sentence or two in most books not aimed at scientists, science students, or people with a fairly advanced interest.

    Probably the best single piece (for both sides of the debate, in fact) was the two volume text published by Dr. Adams (don't remember his first name) at my university. Unfortunately, they were never printed beyond students in his Bio 314 class. I have my copy somewhere, I could definitely put together a pretty extensive reading list if I could find it.

    It won't really help you in the specific question, but just about anything by John Polkinghorne might be worth a read, though the bulk of it is more philosophy than science. Also, Henry Morris, who's name is connected in some way with most of the "science" of ID and creationism in its various flavors, even those lacking his special brand of crazy. Just learning about evolution isn't really enough to build an argument, it's worth it to go back to where a lot of the other side comes from.

    Hevach on
  • Dublo7Dublo7 Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    LadyM wrote: »
    Yeah, my suggestion would be a basic biology textbook.

    I wouldn't suggest Origin of the Species unless you enjoy very dense, heavy prose from that century.

    This book has some good reviews (though I haven't read it myself) and it doesn't sound like it has any "olol God is imaginary!" in it: http://www.amazon.com/Science-Evolution-Creationism-National-Sciences/dp/0309105862/ref=pd_bbs_sr_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228279170&sr=8-6

    So when you said "textbook" it made me think of the only textbook I've ever enjoyed reading, Evolutionary Analysis, which seemed like a pretty unimaginative title so I was googling to Google and link it and then I came across this.

    http://wps.prenhall.com/esm_freeman_evol_3/12/3315/848837.cw/index.html

    I guess that is the companion site that goes with the text? It doesn't have quite the information I would've hoped, but that was the book. It is amazing.
    Holy shit, I was about to recommend the same text book. It was a required text for my Evolutionary Biology unit.
    It's a fantastic text book. It's easy to follow and covers practically everything you'd want to know about the topic.

    Dublo7 on
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  • OrogogusOrogogus San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    LadyM wrote: »
    I wouldn't suggest Origin of the Species unless you enjoy very dense, heavy prose from that century.

    I think The Origin of Species is very readable for modern laypeople, personally, as it was targeted towards people who weren't already believers in evolutionary theory, and there's not much scientific jargon at all (as much of it hadn't been formulated yet), so it lacks the baggage of modern texts on the subject. It's also readily available on the Internet (the wiki page has a bunch of links in the External Links section at the bottom), if that's easier than checking out a physical book. Darwin did a lot of thinking on that boat, and I would honestly highly recommend giving The Origin of Species a read.

    Orogogus on
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2008
    Dawkins' anti-religious bent might put you off. I'm non-religious and it even makes me grimace sometimes. However, you need to understand that a lot of that is born from a reaction to all the hatred he's attracted from religious people by simply trying to educated the general public with a clear explanation of the theory of evolution.

    I expect, as such, his earlier books are less focused on ridiculing religious explanations and more on explaining evolution simply and clearly and providing solid examples of the concepts whilst providing explanations for some of the common 'But evolution couldn't explain this...' types of arguments. River out of Eden and the Selfish Gene are two I've read and would eagerly recommend. The whole 'point' of Dawkins is to explain evolution in a way that non-biologists can understand without simplifying or patronising - his books really are exactly what you're looking for and it's unfortunate that his spats with churches and religion turn people off from reading his books.

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    http://www.notjustatheory.com/

    Mostly for all the links it provides.

    MKR on
  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Place at the tableRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    There's been a recent TV series on the evolution of complex structures that's pretty OK. It doesn't really have any discussion of the ID controversy in it

    JohnnyCache on
  • corcorigancorcorigan Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Considering how old The Origin Of Species is, it's readable for historical interest and not much more.

    I found The Ancestor's Tale to be rather good too. The Feathered Onion (by some guy I can't remember) was also rather good, and completely accessible.

    corcorigan on
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  • mrleemrlee Registered User new member
    edited December 2008
    Dawkins is ok, but not everyone accepts the gene centric view of evolution. I suggest reading Elizabeth Lloyd's The Structure and Confirmation of Evolutionary Theory. But it is not a general introduction.

    It is not clear whether they're looking for an introduction to evolutionary theory, or to the natural history of life. Difference between theory and application, and all that.

    mrlee on
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