Smalltalk; at it, I am small time

yalborap

First, *ba dum psh*.

Second, you know my issues. You know their wide, intense, varied arrays. You know I have likely done little to move forward. And honestly, I haven't done much. I've tried talking a bit with people, though, and the same issue comes up.

I fucking suck at small talk. I partially believe this could be related to getting raised on a heavy diet of pop culture media, where every sentence is perfect, nobody stutters or mumbles unless it's for a Very Special Episode, and everything's just god damned perfect except when a tiny mistake is escalated for the sake of the plot.

I can talk just fine about, say, photography, or videogames, or whathaveyou. When I get lost into one of these, I can become very talkative.

I can't fucking do the generic small talk, though. At all. This is exacerbated by a heavy lack of interest. I don't care about how the goddamned weather is. This is Southern California, it is low 70s in DECEMBER. Sunny with a chance of clouds. Every fucking day. Other things are the same way. I don't follow sports, I don't watch a lot of TV these days(and what I do watch is non/semi-fiction or cartoons, heavily removing that "did you see what happened this week" element), and so on.

This is, clearly, a big problem. I've been going places more and trying to talk to people more and stuff, but it's only gonna go so far if I can't hold a conversation to save my damn life.

So, help me out here. Gimme a crash course on small-talking.

DVG

Best thing to do? Forget about making smalltalk, and find something worthwhile to say. Smalltalk is what people do to fill an uncomfortable silence. Go out in the world and get some experiences under your belt and talk about those experiences. The more varied experiences you have, the easier it'll be to bring up an individual one to talk about.

EDIT: Find something worthwhile wasn't meant to sound condescending, if it came off like that. I just find that I have a pretty easy time of talking to new people because I have a lot of funny stories about some fucked up situations I've been in.

Zombiemambo

Having things to talk about can come from having life experience (just talking about where you've been, stuff you like/dislike) or doing something that you can have a discussion about (I rock climb and frequently discuss rock climbing areas and problems we're working on). Don't force it, just start a conversation casually. "What kind of music do you like?" or "What have you been up to lately?" are perfect for striking up conversations.

It's not something you become good at by practicing in the mirror. You get good at talking by talking and having things to talk about. It also never hurts to be the 3rd person in a conversation and just listen.

yalborap

Well, here's the big awkward issue: I basically need to be able to talk to just random people, out of the blue, since at best all I have are situations and options to make random conversing socially acceptable. I don't really have a place where it's EXPECTED and where I could easily build up some friends.

And as far as I know, random people do not like when you rant about levels and aperture and unlockable weapons and getting the exposure right and how much you wish you could afford that epic mount/epic mounted flash.

ManonvonSuperock

sounds like you need to join a local photography club.

Vixx

"where are you from?" "what do you do?" "how long have you been here?"

in a lull in the conversation, use prompts like that to get the person talking about themselves. once you've done that, they'll think you're a marvelous conversationalist. while they are answering those questions, find questions to ask based on what their answers are and learn even MORE about them. ("how did you get into that field?" "how do you like it here?" "you going home for Christmas?" "how long have you been working in that field?")

try to remember as much as you can (or, better, try to remember key points on what they say that you find interesting), and reference stuff that they said early on in the conversation later on so that they know you're listening. this makes you instantly likable and they will say how lovely you are you to talk to, and really all you are doing is asking very simple questions.

admittedly, there are some people who will give you very basic answers that aren't much to work with and they won't ask you any easy prompts either. these people are pretty bad conversationalists and no amount of small talk will save you.

Nissl

Agree, you should join a photography club or take a photography class. Or pick up a moonlight job working in a photography store/lab, or a job to buy more photography equipment.

Do you have other hobbies besides MMOs? Yeah, MMOs are the conversational kiss of death with normals. Don't talk about MMOs.

Cut 'n' pasted from the other thread with a couple edits:

"How's it going?" remains my best general conversation opener. Gives people space to expand or not, and after a bit of practice I developed an inflection that tends to draw people out. Unless you're getting horrible body language, don't be afraid to push in a second question about their day or whether they like their job or what they're doing this weekend or whatever. Most people WANT to talk but are too shy to take that one key step. A few people suck or are having a bad day and will give you the cold shoulder, oh well.

Or if they mirror "how's it going," you can talk about the same kind of topics. Try to give them conversational hooks. Don't say "I'm good," say "I'm pretty wiped because I went for a long photo shoot at location x yesterday, gonna go home and watch Mythbusters" or whatever. That sentence opens them up to talk about how they're feeling, photography, outdoor locations, TV shows they like, etc. Hopefully you find some details in common along the way. If not, oh well, not going to have things in common with everyone.

Edit: I live in SoCal too, and for me it's kind of a fun game at this point to find new ways to run the "nice weather" conversation when the weather is always the same. It usually bridges to talking about outdoor hobbies, where we're from, when people are getting off work, etc.

Mahnmut

Doc wrote: »

If you are just looking at getting used to conversing with women and aren't looking for deep conversation right away, try this:

Don't feel forced to talk if you don't have anything interesting to say. If you sense an awkward silence coming up where you are expected to talk, rephrase her last sentence in the form of a question.

Smalltalk 101.

Saw this in the other thread and thought it was fantastic.

yalborap

Nissl wrote: »

Agree, you should join a photography club or take a photography class. Or pick up a moonlight job working in a photography store/lab, or a job to buy more photography equipment.

Do you have other hobbies besides MMOs? Yeah, MMOs are the conversational kiss of death with normals. Don't talk about MMOs.

Cut 'n' pasted from the other thread with a couple edits:

"How's it going?" remains my best general conversation opener. Gives people space to expand or not, and after a bit of practice I developed an inflection that tends to draw people out. Unless you're getting horrible body language, don't be afraid to push in a second question about their day or whether they like their job or what they're doing this weekend or whatever. Most people WANT to talk but are too shy to take that one key step. A few people suck or are having a bad day and will give you the cold shoulder, oh well.

Or if they mirror "how's it going," you can talk about the same kind of topics. Try to give them conversational hooks. Don't say "I'm good," say "I'm pretty wiped because I went for a long photo shoot at location x yesterday, gonna go home and watch Mythbusters" or whatever. That sentence opens them up to talk about how they're feeling, photography, outdoor locations, TV shows they like, etc. Hopefully you find some details in common along the way. If not, oh well, not going to have things in common with everyone.

Edit: I live in SoCal too, and for me it's kind of a fun game at this point to find new ways to run the "nice weather" conversation when the weather is always the same. It usually bridges to talking about outdoor hobbies, where we're from, when people are getting off work, etc.

I actually generally avoid actual MMOs, I was more going for a bad little joke there. I stick to mainly single-player videogames.

I also write, though it's all pulpy genre-fiction stuff.

That's basically it, really. I take photos, I write stories, I play games and I use my computer. Kinda boring, all things considered.

JNighthawk

Aw, I thought this was going to be a programming thread.

Movitz

Best thing to do? Forget about making smalltalk, and find something worthwhile to say. Smalltalk is what people do to fill an uncomfortable silence. Go out in the world and get some experiences under your belt and talk about those experiences. The more varied experiences you have, the easier it'll be to bring up an individual one to talk about.

This is by far the best advice. Smalltalk about the weather is embarrassing and I can't stand it. I force myself to change the subject whenever that happens.

Another good advice is to focus on the people you are talking to. Everyone likes to talk about themselves. Ask questions about them, their opinions on things.

And try staying updated with the world, news and other current events like what bands are in town for the weekend or what movies that are playing right now. The key to being able to talk to many people is to know a little of everything. So that when someone starts talking about mountaineering you can steer the subject to Kerouac's Dharma Bums smoothly and from there discuss poetry or literature (weird example maybe but It popped up in my head as it happened yesterday).

I never watch TV but whenever people starts going on about whatever happened on whatever show they're following I just give them my 2 cents on whatever the topic is and change it to something I can discuss as well.

Also, weird observation. I kick ass at socializing with people but I have a hard time writing things on internet forums or sending email. Phone calls too to some extent. I need a face to talk to. Maybe a new topic in H/A?

Ripp

Movitz wrote: »

Another good advice is to focus on the people you are talking to. Everyone likes to talk about themselves. Ask questions about them, their opinions on things.

This is probably the best advice on this topic that you'll get. Just remember that people only enjoy talking about themselves for as long as they think you're genuinely interested - so the trick is finding them interesting. This will be difficult at first but you'll learn to ask better questions over time, and sooner or later you'll forget that conversing used to be awkward for you.

Anybody that's worth talking to will forgive a little social awkwardness if they can tell you're really trying to learn more about them. And if you're sensing that they've picked up on your social difficulties there's nothing wrong with letting them know that this doesn't come naturally to you. Most people find that endearing and will open up to you even more.

And once you've shown that you're interested in their stamp collecting/basketweaving/scrapbooking hobby they'll ask you about what you like to do, and you'll be able to tell them about all the interesting pictures you've taken.

Sooner than later you'll be able to relate funny stories about all the people you've spoken to over the last weeks/months/years and you'll have an anecdote appropriate to any situation. It's not tough to be a social butterfly, it just takes a lot of practice.

yalborap

Slightly tangential question; About how long would typically be considered 'appropriate' to know a person before I, say, invited them to go do something unrelated to how I met them? Such as asking if they want to join me for a photo trip, or go to an arcade(assuming I can find one still functional), or so on.

Zombiemambo

yalborap wrote: »

Slightly tangential question; About how long would typically be considered 'appropriate' to know a person before I, say, invited them to go do something unrelated to how I met them? Such as asking if they want to join me for a photo trip, or go to an arcade(assuming I can find one still functional), or so on.

It depends, really. I'd say that if you meet someone doing something specific, and you start to talk about your personal lives more than whatever it is your doing, you might toss them an invite to grab something to eat after you're done or whatever. If the subject of movies comes up, maybe you ask them what movies they want to see and invite them to go the theatre.

yalborap

Zombiemambo wrote: »

yalborap wrote: »

Slightly tangential question; About how long would typically be considered 'appropriate' to know a person before I, say, invited them to go do something unrelated to how I met them? Such as asking if they want to join me for a photo trip, or go to an arcade(assuming I can find one still functional), or so on.

It depends, really. I'd say that if you meet someone doing something specific, and you start to talk about your personal lives more than whatever it is your doing, you might toss them an invite to grab something to eat after you're done or whatever. If the subject of movies comes up, maybe you ask them what movies they want to see and invite them to go the theatre.

How big of a problem do you think it'd be if I accidently asked way-the-fuck too soon? Would that render any possibility of being seen as normal ever again by the people in the vicinity moot, or could I recover?

Page-

I have sort-of the same problem. I can do smalltalk alright (I just listen, I don't talk), but I hate it so much. Really, I have no problem at all when I'm with my friends; we talk about things that interest us, talk shit, or whatever. It helps that we only really get together to do things, so we always have that to fall back on if a subject runs dry.

My real problem is my family. I have nothing in common with them, I don't agree with them on hardly anything, and since they're my family I've run every non-confrontational topic dry. When I'm with them I don't say anything unless someone asks me a direct question. And I hate it. I hate having to go through that, and I hate feeling so awkward when I'm with the people that should be closest to me.

But with strangers it's no too bad. As others have said, just get them talking about themselves and you should be alright. Listen and prompt. Maybe you'll be thought of as a "good listener," and I think that's a compliment. Then again, I don't often go out of my way to meet new people, so maybe you need more than that.

yalborap

Okay, so, I've found another little potential root-of-the-problem.

I desperately, desperately try to avoid being this guy. Which basically amounts to staying the hell away from everyone on the off-chance that I might use THEM if they don't use ME.

Is this one of those things where I need to just make some money and use it to see a shrink?

Malkor

You see that second panel?

Remember it.

None of the rest of that comic applies if you do what the second panel says.

LewieP's Mummy

Ask people questions about themselves, take a few risks, ask someone if they're interested in going somewhere, seeing a film, whatever. the worst that can happen is they say no, the best, you've found a new friend/ date. If you're interested in other people, they will be interested in you, and will think you're OK. I used to be very shy, found it really hard to talk to people. I decided i didn't like being that person, so made myself talk to people. It was really hard at first, but I kept trying. People now perceive me as really confident (I am, now), good to hang around with, funny, and all sorts of other good things. Just keep trying - decide you're going to talk to someone every day - even someone at the bus stop, or on the tube, or in a shop. Just comment about something positive - their appearance for eg., just smile and look friendly when you do. People love compliments, and it will get you into the habit of speaking.

yalborap

Well, it's getting more into general life issues than the topic of the thread, but talking to someone every day would be pretty damn difficult. I basically leave the house, on average, once a week right now.

LewieP's Mummy

So, find a reason to go out - only buy enough bread/milk. whatever to last for a couple of days, so you have to go out. Talk to people in shops, at the tills, over the counter. Its just practise, so give yourself lots of opportunities to practice.

yalborap

LewiePs Mummy wrote: »

So, find a reason to go out - only buy enough bread/milk. whatever to last for a couple of days, so you have to go out. Talk to people in shops, at the tills, over the counter. Its just practise, so give yourself lots of opportunities to practice.

Which brings us to the issue of me being a 16 year old living with his parents with no form of transportation.

Sorry if it seems like I'm shooting everything you say down, I'm just trying to provide a better perspective on the situation. I could potentially pull off heading out every few days, and am looking into stuff like a local club thing the library runs(unfortunately, just a generic thing where teenagers can hang out. The only photography club I could find within a 20 minute drive's radius seems to be stocked with people 2-4 times my age), though.

LewieP's Mummy

Do you go to school? or have a part time job? Could you get one?

Also, being 16 is tough, you've got a load of stuff to be dealing with, that will get a bit easier over time.

I've just looked at your photos - they are amazingly good, you have a fantastic eye. Any photo class you went to, you'd hold your own, no matter how old the other people were. Practice on them - its the same skills you need for talking to people your own age, and they'd probably be glad that someone younger than then was interested in them!

And the library thing - OK, its generic, but there may be other people interested in photograpy - specially when they saw what you've done!

yalborap

LewiePs Mummy wrote: »

Do you go to school? or have a part time job? Could you get one?

Also, being 16 is tough, you've got a load of stuff to be dealing with, that will get a bit easier over time.

I've just looked at your photos - they are amazingly good, you have a fantastic eye. Any photo class you went to, you'd hold your own, no matter how old the other people were. Practice on them - its the same skills you need for talking to people your own age, and they'd probably be glad that someone younger than then was interested in them!

And the library thing - OK, its generic, but there may be other people interested in photograpy - specially when they saw what you've done!

Independent study for school. No job yet. Going to toss out a few applications if things are looking up after the Christmas season.

A file I keep for explaining IS wrote:

I go in once a week. There are no classrooms. Each teacher has an office, and each student waits their turn to go in and talk privately. There are very few students, and one spends a maximum of two hours or so in this place before returning home to do the week's worth of work they are given. This makes social interaction from scratch extremely difficult.

ilmmad

Do the bread and milk thing. There's going to be a store with people your age around you.

Also accept people's advice this time around.

Basketballs

Do you like doing independent study? I was homeschooled and loved it, but I got way more socialization than it sounds like you are. If you are unhappy about it then you might want to bring it up with your parents and ask to go to school.

Kalkino

Get a part time job as a salesperson at a tech store of some kind. They love cheap student /enthusiast labour and it will give you a crash course in small talk/conversational openers/talking crap to break the ice. Sales has that kind of effect, either that or you will hate it and quit quickly.

yalborap

Basketballs wrote: »

Do you like doing independent study? I was homeschooled and loved it, but I got way more socialization than it sounds like you are. If you are unhappy about it then you might want to bring it up with your parents and ask to go to school.

I definitely like it for the most part. It works out well. The socialization is the only major issue.

It's just a big, big issue.

Demerdar

yalborap wrote: »

Basketballs wrote: »

Do you like doing independent study? I was homeschooled and loved it, but I got way more socialization than it sounds like you are. If you are unhappy about it then you might want to bring it up with your parents and ask to go to school.

I definitely like it for the most part. It works out well. The socialization is the only major issue.

It's just a big, big issue.

If it's such a big issue, how do you enjoy independent study?

Rami

On a different note, you say you like gaming? Well, expand to some multiplayer gaming on PC/360/PS3 or whatever. Not MMOs, something like shooters works well. As long as it uses voice chat you can practise conversation from the comfort of home. Most popular games also have a pretty large following on the forums so you can usually play with people who aren't dickheads.

yalborap

Demerdar wrote: »

yalborap wrote: »

Basketballs wrote: »

Do you like doing independent study? I was homeschooled and loved it, but I got way more socialization than it sounds like you are. If you are unhappy about it then you might want to bring it up with your parents and ask to go to school.

I definitely like it for the most part. It works out well. The socialization is the only major issue.

It's just a big, big issue.

If it's such a big issue, how do you enjoy independent study?

Everything else about it works great. I like the more relaxed way of getting work done, I like the more personal connection I get with my teachers, I like just about everything.

And even the socialness wouldn't be a big issue if I had the confidence to just walk up and start talking to someone I'd never met before.

Demerdar

yalborap wrote: »

Demerdar wrote: »

yalborap wrote: »

Basketballs wrote: »

Do you like doing independent study? I was homeschooled and loved it, but I got way more socialization than it sounds like you are. If you are unhappy about it then you might want to bring it up with your parents and ask to go to school.

I definitely like it for the most part. It works out well. The socialization is the only major issue.

It's just a big, big issue.

If it's such a big issue, how do you enjoy independent study?

Everything else about it works great. I like the more relaxed way of getting work done, I like the more personal connection I get with my teachers, I like just about everything.

And even the socialness wouldn't be a big issue if I had the confidence to just walk up and start talking to someone I'd never met before.

We all need a platform to jump off of when being social, be it work or school. In all honesty, it's how you meet a lot of people, and some (or most) of your good friends come from those platforms. It's pretty difficult to become friends with a complete and total stranger, though it can be done.

My advice is, if you aren't going to go to public school, get a job. You'll find your social interactions will improve exponentially just by working and being around people. It doesn't sound like you get much exposure.

yalborap

Demerdar wrote: »

yalborap wrote: »

Demerdar wrote: »

yalborap wrote: »

Basketballs wrote: »

Do you like doing independent study? I was homeschooled and loved it, but I got way more socialization than it sounds like you are. If you are unhappy about it then you might want to bring it up with your parents and ask to go to school.

I definitely like it for the most part. It works out well. The socialization is the only major issue.

It's just a big, big issue.

If it's such a big issue, how do you enjoy independent study?

Everything else about it works great. I like the more relaxed way of getting work done, I like the more personal connection I get with my teachers, I like just about everything.

And even the socialness wouldn't be a big issue if I had the confidence to just walk up and start talking to someone I'd never met before.

We all need a platform to jump off of when being social, be it work or school. In all honesty, it's how you meet a lot of people, and some (or most) of your good friends come from those platforms. It's pretty difficult to become friends with a complete and total stranger, though it can be done.

My advice is, if you aren't going to go to public school, get a job. You'll find your social interactions will improve exponentially just by working and being around people. It doesn't sound like you get much exposure.

On the job note, what kind of...Limits, I guess, are there on social stuff, especially age-wise? I mean, I could help out at my dad's business tomorrow and probably get a small paycheck when it's doing well, but the people there are all 20s and 30s. Am I just imagining that it'd be weird as all fuck for someone my age to hang out with someone their age, or is it actually?

Racist Joke

Page- wrote: »

I have sort-of the same problem. I can do smalltalk alright (I just listen, I don't talk), but I hate it so much. Really, I have no problem at all when I'm with my friends; we talk about things that interest us, talk shit, or whatever. It helps that we only really get together to do things, so we always have that to fall back on if a subject runs dry.

My real problem is my family. I have nothing in common with them, I don't agree with them on hardly anything, and since they're my family I've run every non-confrontational topic dry. When I'm with them I don't say anything unless someone asks me a direct question. And I hate it. I hate having to go through that, and I hate feeling so awkward when I'm with the people that should be closest to me.

But with strangers it's no too bad. As others have said, just get them talking about themselves and you should be alright. Listen and prompt. Maybe you'll be thought of as a "good listener," and I think that's a compliment. Then again, I don't often go out of my way to meet new people, so maybe you need more than that.

Holy shit this is exactly me, everything. I always hear people saying how it is so nice to see your family for the holiday's and whatnot. It'll be fun etc. I fucking hate it. It's awkward. I barely say two words unless someone asks me something, and it is always the same shit "hows work? hows the apartment? hows your mom?" and so on. Every year, the same questions, the same answers. The only interests I have is games, reading, and some tv shows. Thing is, none of my family gives a shit about those. Hell, my dad still thinks videogames are for little kids. He has no idea that it's not just for little kids.

I hate any form of smalltalk. I find it useless.

Zombiemambo

yalborap wrote: »

Demerdar wrote: »

yalborap wrote: »

Demerdar wrote: »

yalborap wrote: »

Basketballs wrote: »

Do you like doing independent study? I was homeschooled and loved it, but I got way more socialization than it sounds like you are. If you are unhappy about it then you might want to bring it up with your parents and ask to go to school.

I definitely like it for the most part. It works out well. The socialization is the only major issue.

It's just a big, big issue.

If it's such a big issue, how do you enjoy independent study?

Everything else about it works great. I like the more relaxed way of getting work done, I like the more personal connection I get with my teachers, I like just about everything.

And even the socialness wouldn't be a big issue if I had the confidence to just walk up and start talking to someone I'd never met before.

We all need a platform to jump off of when being social, be it work or school. In all honesty, it's how you meet a lot of people, and some (or most) of your good friends come from those platforms. It's pretty difficult to become friends with a complete and total stranger, though it can be done.

My advice is, if you aren't going to go to public school, get a job. You'll find your social interactions will improve exponentially just by working and being around people. It doesn't sound like you get much exposure.

On the job note, what kind of...Limits, I guess, are there on social stuff, especially age-wise? I mean, I could help out at my dad's business tomorrow and probably get a small paycheck when it's doing well, but the people there are all 20s and 30s. Am I just imagining that it'd be weird as all fuck for someone my age to hang out with someone their age, or is it actually?

When I worked retail all of my co-workers were at least 5 years older than me at the youngest. Many of my co-workers were in there mid-20s and I was 16. We got along great, but I'm used to being around older people. I only have 1 friend who isn't older than I am.

yalborap

Zombiemambo wrote: »

yalborap wrote: »

Demerdar wrote: »

yalborap wrote: »

Demerdar wrote: »

yalborap wrote: »

Basketballs wrote: »

Do you like doing independent study? I was homeschooled and loved it, but I got way more socialization than it sounds like you are. If you are unhappy about it then you might want to bring it up with your parents and ask to go to school.

I definitely like it for the most part. It works out well. The socialization is the only major issue.

It's just a big, big issue.

If it's such a big issue, how do you enjoy independent study?

Everything else about it works great. I like the more relaxed way of getting work done, I like the more personal connection I get with my teachers, I like just about everything.

And even the socialness wouldn't be a big issue if I had the confidence to just walk up and start talking to someone I'd never met before.

We all need a platform to jump off of when being social, be it work or school. In all honesty, it's how you meet a lot of people, and some (or most) of your good friends come from those platforms. It's pretty difficult to become friends with a complete and total stranger, though it can be done.

My advice is, if you aren't going to go to public school, get a job. You'll find your social interactions will improve exponentially just by working and being around people. It doesn't sound like you get much exposure.

On the job note, what kind of...Limits, I guess, are there on social stuff, especially age-wise? I mean, I could help out at my dad's business tomorrow and probably get a small paycheck when it's doing well, but the people there are all 20s and 30s. Am I just imagining that it'd be weird as all fuck for someone my age to hang out with someone their age, or is it actually?

When I worked retail all of my co-workers were at least 5 years older than me at the youngest. Many of my co-workers were in there mid-20s and I was 16. We got along great, but I'm used to being around older people. I only have 1 friend who isn't older than I am.

Yeah, but could you hang out with them? As in, outside of work. My end-goal is to get some damn friends I can hang out with and do stuff with and such, really. Anything else is just gravy.

Zombiemambo

How old are you? 17? Because college is where social opportunities practically throw themselves at you.

yalborap

Zombiemambo wrote: »

How old are you? 17? Because college is where social opportunities practically throw themselves at you.

16, though I'll be 17 in January.

yalborap

Okay, so. Update.

I went to the little 'teen time' club thing that happens each Tuesday at my local library.

It's basically all middle-school kids, so I am hosed on that note. Can anyone think of some other major possibilities, or am I basically down to getting a job?