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How to get my girlfriend to pay for things
bumblebeetuna
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TLDR: I'm going poor paying for lunch, dinner, coffee, tickets, etc. for my girlfriend and I, so how can I get her to help out sometimes?
Alright, so I've been dating this girl for about 5 months. She's Japanese and we both live in Tokyo. I'm American. I'm 25, she's 27. We can pretty much only meet on the weekends because we both work opposite hours and she lives with her parents about an hour away from me. By the way, most young people here live with their parents until they're married.
When we first started dating, I would pay for everything out of courtesy or whatever you wanna call it. Now, 5 months in, I've noticed that I haven't been saving any money at all in the past few months and I think one of the biggest culprits is the cash I spend on everything we do together. Movies? That's 18-20 bucks per ticket here and I pay for both. Lunch? That's around 40 bucks, I pay. Dinner? 70 bucks or so, I pay. Always.
Now, I'm just a lowly English teacher and I'm not raking in any huge amounts of dough or anything. She sells insurance and lives with her parents so I'm pretty sure the only bill she pays is her cell phone. So I'm sure she has plenty of disposable income to help out, if she wanted to. How can I get her to pitch in without being a total douche about it? I think if I'm direct with her, she'll get upset. She's kinda sensitive.
Also, if you're thinking she's just using me for money, well no. She knows what I do and I'm pretty sure she knows I don't make a lot. We took a trip to Hiroshima a few months ago together and she actually paid for her half that time (it was like 500 bucks each so yeah). She could easily find another guy who makes a lot more money here if she wanted to.
By the way, her English is pretty good (better than my Japanese), but not great. I guess keep that in mind.
Ok that's it.
Alright, so I've been dating this girl for about 5 months. She's Japanese and we both live in Tokyo. I'm American. I'm 25, she's 27. We can pretty much only meet on the weekends because we both work opposite hours and she lives with her parents about an hour away from me. By the way, most young people here live with their parents until they're married.
When we first started dating, I would pay for everything out of courtesy or whatever you wanna call it. Now, 5 months in, I've noticed that I haven't been saving any money at all in the past few months and I think one of the biggest culprits is the cash I spend on everything we do together. Movies? That's 18-20 bucks per ticket here and I pay for both. Lunch? That's around 40 bucks, I pay. Dinner? 70 bucks or so, I pay. Always.
Now, I'm just a lowly English teacher and I'm not raking in any huge amounts of dough or anything. She sells insurance and lives with her parents so I'm pretty sure the only bill she pays is her cell phone. So I'm sure she has plenty of disposable income to help out, if she wanted to. How can I get her to pitch in without being a total douche about it? I think if I'm direct with her, she'll get upset. She's kinda sensitive.
Also, if you're thinking she's just using me for money, well no. She knows what I do and I'm pretty sure she knows I don't make a lot. We took a trip to Hiroshima a few months ago together and she actually paid for her half that time (it was like 500 bucks each so yeah). She could easily find another guy who makes a lot more money here if she wanted to.
By the way, her English is pretty good (better than my Japanese), but not great. I guess keep that in mind.
Ok that's it.
bumblebeetuna on
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From any reasonable person, that should get one of two responses.
1) No problem, I've got it
2) I'm broke, too. Let's find something cheap/free to do.
If it results in something significantly different from those, this probably isn't a relationship you want to be in.
Pretty much what has already been said. Talk to her.
Also, be firm in the sense that you have a certain amount to spend on her and that's it. If you need to, let her know something like "hey, I'm running low on funds, you mind a night in or something?"
You're definitely not out of line to pose the question, "hey, could you chip in now and again, I'm a little lean", but I disagree with Jimmy King on the point that you're in a doomed relationship if she isn't cool with that -- there's a very high likelihood of a cultural difference here, and it's also highly possible she's worried about insulting you by offering to pay.
I'm not made of money either(although TBH I am probably slightly better off then you), but I always found it workable when I was broke and still seeing a girl. The expression "the thought that counts" is completly wrong. Its the results that count, and the experience getting there. Thought contains no value, unless it produces one of the two aforementioned results. So, how to maximize both?? Easier then you think..
Make it an adventure of some kind.. so if you know these 4 places are expensive, scout ahead(internet, friends, etc) and find some cheap places in the area. Good, bad, whatever, find some places and go there. Walk instead of driving.. this does wonders for saving money. Not from gas, but from minimizing exposure to places. You may walk by interesting looking shop, go in and browse.. that kind of stuff is free, quality time, and then allows you to maximize whatever you do buy. If your normally spending 200$ a weekend(random #).. try and spend 60$ of that in the dinner that night, and the other 140$ on just small random things.
I understand that Japan may be more expensive then america.. and as such, my guess may be way off.. but thats what I do here in the US. Drive to random place your friend mentioned, park(or take taxi I guess), spend an hour or something exploring the area, and then get some dinner.. then after dinner, spend some more time walking, browsing, etc.. and then maybe once every 3 weeks or whatever see a movie.
So I guess really, try and find new places that may be cheaper(the new part will probably entice her enough to not notice cost), and then try and find free shows.. street theather, or whatever. Not sure about the japanese culture in that regard.
Good luck man..
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Yeah, fuck foreign countries and their social norms that differ from ours!
I'll admit I don't know much about Japan, but this just seems like common sense. If she likes him, she won't want him to be broke - so she'll either suggest they go out less, or pay.
It's common sense for Westerners because our society works in a different way -- we don't really have strict gender roles anymore. Japan is a lot bigger on what we'd consider the "traditional family model" in which the husband provides and the wife is a homemaker. This isn't exclusively how it works, and there are certainly exceptions, but it's a lot more common over there.
I mean hell, keep in mind that we're talking about a 27 year old woman who still lives with her parents, presumably because she hasn't married yet.
Having him pay for everything in the traditional way would make sense if their culture was still at the point where a woman didn't have any chance of ever making as much money as her male date, but I don't think it's right to stay silent because of cultural differences if she's perfectly capable of spending a bit herself so he isn't completely broke. Certainly he should keep those differences in mind when he talks to her, and should bring it up gently (as he did mention she's sensitive) but I still think it's really unfair to him to just leave things this way.
You're right, she might not be offering right now because of some cultural thing or just not being aware how little money the guy ends up with every month, but if he tells her, and she still won't change, then she's not someone I would personally want to be with.
And I said it was worth him bringing it up. But he's dating a Japanese woman in Japan, he needs to be cool with the fact that she may not immediately abandon her society's cultural norms just because some guy she's dating thinks she should.
You guys are making her out to be a bad person if she expects her boyfriend to behave like any other boyfriend over there would, and for that matter, this is all a moot point if she ends up being cool about it.
Pixels is just pointing out, quite rightfully, that the OP should be aware of the differences inherent in Japanese culture. This isn't some American college girl flitting around on his dime. It isn't even a Japanese exchange student or recent immigrant. It's an adult Japanese woman living with her parents in Japan. You can insist that Japan is gender-equal until you're blue in the face, but the fact is, many of the people there still hold deeply traditional views of gender roles that don't necessarily have anything to do with how much money she could theoretically make compared to him: he's the man, which makes him the provider. Complaining about that is about as fruitful (and about as culturally sensitive) as saying "Man, what's with those Muslim chicks having to cover their heads all the time? That doesn't make any sense, they must get hot! They should stop doing that."
Actually I was replying to DanMach, who did say the OP shouldn't say anything. I agree that he should understand the girl's very likely not using him for his money, because yeah, it sounds like things are different over there culturally. But that still doesn't mean he should have to silently put up with spending all his cash on her.
This.
$70 for a nice dinner I can see, but $40 for lunch? Are you just eating the lobster eyes and throwing the rest away?
In fact, I would be very cautious about how I approach the issue. Be subtle--hint, don't confront. Instead of asking her to pay, maybe tell her that you're trying to watch your budget and would prefer to stay in tonight. Maybe she'll offer to chip in, maybe she won't, but either way you'll be spending less. And while her refusing to pay would be, in my opinion, a poor reason to break off the relationship, her expecting you to take her to do lots of expensive things when you're low on money... that might qualify.
Unfortunately, Japan really is that expensive for a nice sit-down style lunch. I'm sure we're not talking like Yoshinoya (That's like 600-700 yen) here, but food is generally more expensive and smaller portions than you get in a place like America. Throw in any alcohol and the tab goes up pretty quick.
On topic, where do you live in Tokyo? There are lots of cheap fun things to do that I found when I lived there, usually you can ride the Yamanote or one of the numerous subways for relatively cheap compared to the 540~ yen per kilometer or whatever ridiculous amount they charge nowadays. Also, bicycles are your friend, go biking together! Definitely be subtle though, that is trending on pretty dangerous cultural territory, especially depending on how serious you are, her parents, et al.
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The other would be to just casually ask if she's up for splitting the costs that night. Even given cultural values being different, I doubt she'd be offended for anything if she said no and you simply dropped it. And if you get that situation, then the solution is to simply work your way down to lower base costs so you're still saving cash despite paying the whole thing yourself.
That's just my take on the situation. I'm not exactly experienced in this, though, so take my advice with a grain of salt.
I have more disposable cash than her, so I pay more often. She doesn't want to feel like she's sucking cash from my wallet, so she pays too, but slightly less often.
If you can't talk to her, then I don't know what to say. A sane person shouldn't have trouble understanding "I have no money, we can't do some of these things unless you pay your own way". Tricking her isn't somehow more elegant.
Just as an aside, an arcade is by no means a guaranteed cheap date in Japan. For one, the good games can still get crazy expensive. For two, UFO catchers are like crazy black holes of money unless you're good, and he'd probably find himself trying to win that extra special rirakuma for the girl. But puri-kura is a good value for the time investment, and womenz love puri-kura almost as much as they love rirakuma.
Back on topic: OP, if you've been dating this girl for five months, I'd like to think you know her well enough to know how to go about broaching the subject. Cultural differences may be part of it but, if it's important enough to you, find a way to bring it up. People are people at the end of the day and not merely the products of their culture. Indirect is almost certainly best 'cause, well, Japan, but don't just accept the situation as is if you're finding it difficult.
Not so much tricking as hinting at the fact that she should help them go out and have fun.
"Hey, I want to go see a movie tonight!"
"I'd love to babe, but I'm spending over my budget, lets rent a movie and hang out here tonight."
This one is a win win. It informs her that you are low on cash, but provides a solution in which you are still putting it out there that you will pay for tonight's activities. But it also gives her a chance to say, "Well, I can pay for my ticket (or our tickets) tonight, don't worry, lets go have fun!"
This one works. I use it all the time
She always paid her half of everything, or we'd sometimes take turns. This was not at my suggestion, but something she wouldn't consider changing until very far into the relationship. And I had more money than her at that time.
My point is not that your girlfriend is bad or in the wrong, but that men paying for everything is not completely the norm here in Japan. Many people do it, some people don't - but one of the best rhetorical tactics any Japanese person (or a westerner who wants to over-simplify) can ever use is 'This thing, right here, that makes sense to me? That's Japanese culture, oh yes it is.'
I suppose that's a complicated chain of reasoning, not appropriate to H&A, but there are many Japanese men and women who would feel that you paying for everything isn't right.
Most importantly, you don't, so you do need to talk about it somehow.
Hinting would of course be the obvious place to start, but I don't think you should feel you're being 'culturally insensitive'. There are more sides to Japanese culture than you think (and many Japanese feminists).
In fact, given how conflict-averse most Japanese people are, it's possible that she thinks you would be hurt if she paid her way.
Anyway, just talk about it. If you can't talk about it, then that's a bigger problem than movie tickets.
For the people who said "Do cheap things!" We do. We often just walk around or go to small parks and we both really enjoy just spending time together. But we still have to eat and I eat shit during the week because I have no time so we eat nice shit on the weekends together. Yes, a nice sit down lunch is around 40 bucks (drinks included). So anyway I can't really change the amount of money we spend together without having totally lame weekends and that's not why I moved to Japan in the first place.
For the cultural difference crowd... yeah I kind of think she doesn't want to offend me by offering to pay. I agree with poshniallo, the cultural differences might not be as vast as reported but yeah they exist.
After thinking about it a little bit, I think it's mostly a problem with me. I find it kind of hard to ask for help paying even if she should pay for half. And when girls offer I turn them down no matter how poor I am.
Well, I'll be seeing her tomorrow and I'll bring it up somehow and then report back.
Work out how much you can afford to spend on dates with her on say, a monthly basis. Then tell her something like, "Hey, I've been really struggling to make ends meet lately and since I'm not very good with money I tried to work out a budget. I think that I can afford about $100/month on "activities" and I'd really like to spend most of that with you because I love the time we spend together. Can you help me figure out how to do that?"
That way you're doing the "it isn't you, it's me", telling her you're having money problems, telling her the amount so she'll be more conscious of it, and asking for her help with it as a "personal" problem. This way at any point you can point back to the budget and work on it as a couple, and if she really wants to do something over the budget then she can offer to help pay for it, but there's no pressure on her to do so.
Screw that. I had no problem paying for things, and the woman I saw in Japan had no problem paying for things either. It's all about the comfort level of both parties.
I'm all for cultural differences, but essentially what is being said is "HER norms are occupying a higher level than HIS norms and HIS pocketbook.
And TOKYO (I want to specify the city, because not every place in Japan is like this) can be expensive, but it can also be cheap (and still enjoyable). In the times I have been I have yet to see the near mythic levels of "grandeur" and expense that some people have been through.
Yes. Just because you're dating a Japanese chick in Japan doesn't mean that suddenly your culture is irrelevant. If I was dating a Japanese girl in America, I would make an effort to respect her cultural norms to an extent, especially if her adhering to my norms was having a tangible detrimental effect on her.
Talking to her about it in a sensitive yet honest manner is the best bet, here. If her cultural norms are so different that it's impossible to even discuss these issues, then this is a relationship with no real future, anyway.
I want to stress this again, because I feel that I've been railroaded a bit here. I don't think it is at ALL inappropriate to raise the notion of her chipping in here and there, that's absolutely reasonable. My point was that it wasn't fair to paint this girl in a negative light if she does indeed feel uncomfortable breaking with the traditional relationship norms of her culture.
The bolded bit seems especially unfair. I've told the OP to talk to her about it, and the OP has said he plans to talk to her about it, I haven't seen anybody saying "don't bring it up".
Nobody specifically said not to bring it up. But a lot of people were saying "respect her culture! her culture probably says she shouldn't pay! don't make her fee awkward!" Which is good advice in itself, but the subtext of the way it was being presented was that her culture was more important. I was merely emphasizing that this should be a two-way street.
I just think you're jumping to some mighty big conclusions here.
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This isn't specifically against what I was saying. More to the point, I guess the OP should decide for himself how much of his "culture" he would like to preserve. If he and his gal can come to a mutual agreement regarding how to handle this, excellent. If they can't, then now is a good time to find that out. Regardless, he needs to realize that he's not out of line in asking for some measure of concession on her part, and he needs to be comfortable with the resolution in the end.
As I said above, if I was in the girl's shoes, I would feel a right dick expecting my lover to completely bow to my culture with no attempt on my part to meet him halfway (or quarter-way, or whathaveyou). But that's me. I'm not the OP.