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An erroneous paycheck and subsequent overdrafts
Organichu
poopspeesRegistered User regular
poopspeesRegistered User regular
Hey, all.
I worked for a bank for 8 months (in corporate office space). Finally I separated from them (partially out of dissatisfaction, partially because of medical problems). There's a whole issue with whether I was fired for negligence of attendance (despite my calling and receiving positive feedback from my supervisor who agreed I should call HR about a medical forbearance), which will interfere with my possibility of unemployment, but that's not the issue I need assistance with.
My termination letter says I was fired November 15th, 2008. I received a paycheck (correctly) on November 30th. I then received another paycheck, advice date December 15th, 2008. My presumption was that this was my final paycheck, as my employer had more than enough time to amend their payroll system.
I paid bills and conducted business as normally, until the next day my paycheck was debited out of my account. This caused me to suffer extensive overdraft fees (in the order of 5-6 hundred dollars). I was angry, understandably, because this was a banking error on the part of my former employer's administrative department. I called employee banking immediately (not thinking of my termination letter) and they refunded me $120 of the overdraft fees and said they can't help me any further until I 'prove this was a banking error resultant of my employee'.
When I call back tomorrow, is my argument valid? They had a full calendar month, at least 20 business days, to amend their payroll system. They awarded me money in error, which they then took back (I am of course fine with that) but their error led to spending behavior that was destructive, yet totally responsible within the framework of their error.
If the first person I speak to on the phone at employee banking cannot help me, am I justified in asking to escalate this?
I worked for a bank for 8 months (in corporate office space). Finally I separated from them (partially out of dissatisfaction, partially because of medical problems). There's a whole issue with whether I was fired for negligence of attendance (despite my calling and receiving positive feedback from my supervisor who agreed I should call HR about a medical forbearance), which will interfere with my possibility of unemployment, but that's not the issue I need assistance with.
My termination letter says I was fired November 15th, 2008. I received a paycheck (correctly) on November 30th. I then received another paycheck, advice date December 15th, 2008. My presumption was that this was my final paycheck, as my employer had more than enough time to amend their payroll system.
I paid bills and conducted business as normally, until the next day my paycheck was debited out of my account. This caused me to suffer extensive overdraft fees (in the order of 5-6 hundred dollars). I was angry, understandably, because this was a banking error on the part of my former employer's administrative department. I called employee banking immediately (not thinking of my termination letter) and they refunded me $120 of the overdraft fees and said they can't help me any further until I 'prove this was a banking error resultant of my employee'.
When I call back tomorrow, is my argument valid? They had a full calendar month, at least 20 business days, to amend their payroll system. They awarded me money in error, which they then took back (I am of course fine with that) but their error led to spending behavior that was destructive, yet totally responsible within the framework of their error.
If the first person I speak to on the phone at employee banking cannot help me, am I justified in asking to escalate this?
Organichu on
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Things might be different in your state, though, so do check up on it . . . just in case. And who knows, maybe your company will be more hospitable, even if they aren't legally obligated to help you out.
No, I wasn't, but I was under the impression that I was due it because they awarded it to me (via direct deposit) a full month past my date of termination. I thought that was well, well beyond the scope of 'oops, takesies backsies'. This is the first time something like this has ever happened to me, but I can't help but feel that this falls into absolutely flagrant error on the part of my ex employer. It's not like I wrangled a last paycheck out of them by one day or something. The money they refunded me had nothing to do with my paycheck- that's just their standard courtesy for employees facing an overdraft problem, since I work for the bank.
Like I said I'm totally inexperienced with this, so maybe there's no timeline and I'm just looking at this irrationally through a lens of wanting my problem taken care of. However I just can't look at the periods of time involved and not feel that they are somewhat responsible for leading me to believe that I was receiving my final paycheck on the 15th of December.
So to rehash:
I have no problem returning the paycheck to them. However I feel that their gross failure to accurately handle my financial information makes them somewhat responsible for this situation. I know it's ultimately my responsibility to keep track of scheduled payments for the work I've rendered, but the sheer level of mishandling (30 full days!) that went into and out of my personal checking account makes me a little bitter.
Ok then - you can try and call them to have the reimburse the other half, but I seriously doubt it will work. I can't think of any reason outside of severence pay when a company will give award you money after you are no longer employed. They made their mistake in paying you money which wasn't due, and took it back. Never hurts to try though
Ok dude, thanks.
Yeah, in rereading my posts I'm starting to feel like I'm acting a little bratty/entitled. When I got the money I should have been thinking more "wait, this doesn't make sense, I shouldn't be getting this, better not spend it" versus "well, I guess this is my last paycheck, I must have confused the payroll schedule".
Consider this solved, I guess. I'm going to try my best to beg for them to help me out, be polite to everyone I speak to, and just hope for the best. It ultimately was my fault but hopefully I'll catch a sympathetic supervisor who has the power to assist me.
I'm not saying it's your fault, and I don't know what kind of recourse you have now, but it could have saved you from this humongous headache.
I'm not entirely certain it's even legal in all states for an employer to do an electronic debit to correct a payroll error in your favor. IANAL, though, and the labor department will let you talk to a labor law expert for free.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
If they're that disorganised that they can keep paying you a month after you've left it wouldnt be amazing if they've made a mistake when taking the money back as well.
But I suspect if the payment really was in error you're on your own and will be relying on their good will to get it fixed. Local laws may vary but, here at least, it's not a problem for your employer to take excess pay back from you after the fact.
See this is pretty much the biggest thing with me. I do plan to take your advice here, but my guess is that somewhere in my direct deposit paperwork I agreed to something like this, my fault for not reading. But I do feel damned uncomfortable about them just dipping into my account. If they just sent me certified mail requesting a returned payment, that'd be cool- that's the modus operandi in most every industry. I should know- recurrent payment processing was my job at the bank.
Thanks for all your help, everyone.
The first thing I would do is start working my way up the chain of command at the bank. Be polite, but insistent. Every time someone tells you "I'm sorry, I can't help you," thank them for their help, and ask to speak to their supervisor. If working your way up that way fails, send a politely-worded letter to the manager of the bank. Get signature confirmation on that letter, and inform him that if the overdraft fees aren't returned to you and you don't hear from him/her within some reasonable amount of time (say, eight business days), you are going to file a suit in small claims court. Then, if you don't hear from him/her, file a suit in small claims court.
With whom should I be speaking?
FWIW I've discovered that debiting out an erroneous paycheck is totally legal and is in my direct deposit contract. However the grounds on which I'll argue (politely) tomorrow are: they had an absurd amount of time to amend it, and this is a 'GROSSLY erroneous' paycheck. Hopefully it works- if not, I learned my lesson for about 65% of the cost.
Thanks for all the help.
wait wait wait
file a suit for what? spending money that wasn't his?
a judge will laugh him out of court... and he'll be out the court fees + the overdraft fees
Yes, that's a bad thing.
It's also really fucking bad to debit an account where you weren't given permission to debit from. You have to get the funds through normal means if they only gave you permission to put in, but not permission to take out. That means sending a letter and a bill. If the result of a debit that wasn't authorized you better be damned well sure they're liable for it.
Of course, if you signed anything in your contract that says "Because I'm letting you do direct deposit, if you make a mistake I'm also giving you the right to debit my account in the amount mistakingly entered," you're pretty much fucked.
honestly, i don't think that would hold up in court either... it's not like they're stealing your money, just retracting an erroneous deposit
it's not like law has a "no taksies backsies" clause, or canceling a check and doing a credit card chargeback would be equally illegal
Offices are closed for the holiday, but I'll update with the resolution on Monday (I expect that I've hit the limit for how much they plan to refund me).
I'm not cashing this one, of course, but it really just showcases the hilarity of this entire situation. Here's what may be the funniest part:
I received an erroneous paycheck on November 30th for a full period of work (80 hours from the 15th of November to the 30th of November). I received another erroneous paycheck on December 15th for a full period of work (80 hours from the 1st of December to the 15th of December). I received no paycheck on December 31st.
However I've now received an erroneous paycheck for hours worked from January 1st to January 15th and this time it's in a payment method I never, ever had with the company.
Personally, I would fight for the money, as the worst thing that can happen is that they will tell you no. Also, I would frame that last check.