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Reasonable "punishment" or "reward"
Quoth
the RavenMiami, FL FOR REALRegistered User regular
the RavenMiami, FL FOR REALRegistered User regular
Without getting into too much backstory, my mother hates my uncle and the feeling is mutual. Christmas dinner is being held at my uncle's house but I am cooking. My mother refuses to attend. My grandparents are extremely upset that she isn't coming, and my grandfather just called me to reiterate how hurt he feels, and how he and my grandmother may not make it to another Christmas so they really want this one to work out.
What possible means can I use to coerce my mother into coming? I intend to basically repeat what my grandfather said, but if that doesn't work, what else can I do?
What possible means can I use to coerce my mother into coming? I intend to basically repeat what my grandfather said, but if that doesn't work, what else can I do?
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I wouldn't go much further than that. It might be best to respect their wishes and let it go. It may not be the warm-fuzzy-Christmas-movie solution, but in my experience forcing family members to come together when they really don't want to never turns out well. They'll glower, they'll fight, Christams will be ruined for everyone.
This.
Without getting in to the reasons behind the fallout between your mother and uncle, and to the extent that they hate each other, there’s really not much you can or should do beyond various ways of reiterating the point your grandparents made. The idea of coercion- punishing or rewarding her like an errant child or untrained dog- well, I’d say that’s the wrong route.
If you want to go beyond spiff's suggestion (and I'm not sure you should), your best bet is to talk to her and focus on the people other than the uncle who will be present, and hammer it home that your mother would be attending it for their benefit, not the uncle’s. She can’t be forced to turn up, but if she can examine the full situation and think beyond this feud- preferably seeing how petty it is on the basis of spending Christmas with people who, bluntly, are old and likely to die so that there’s no second chance- then she can at least make a more informed decision rather than instantly deciding to sit it out based entirely on the fact that your uncle is hosting it.
TL;DR- she’s doing it for her parents, and you, the uncle is incidental. Maybe that's bordering on guilt tripping, but your method should make her want to attend on her own terms, and to be the “bigger person” based off her own choice.
With that in mind, do you have a sense about whether the issue is that he will be at the party or that the party is on his turf? If the real issue is that she doesn't want to come to his house, then you may be able to remove some anger and get some guilt-leverage by moving the Christmas celebration to neutral ground -- a rented room at a restaurant, your grandparents' house, or something like that.
What I wouldn't recommend is putting yourself in the middle of this any more than you have to. It's possible that you don't know the whole story here, and finding out that one relative has been using you as an unwitting weapon against another relative is not fun.
My mother and uncle haven't gotten along for years. My mother was best friends with his ex-wife and never liked his new wife, but stopped talking to the ex out of respect for him. Recently she started talking to the ex again and he got pissed. They also both talk a lot of crap about each other, and they both have this weird jealousy thing where they compete to be the better child. Basically, they are both immature and petty and stupid.
We've been having Christmas dinner at my uncle's for years, so this isn't a new development. What is new is that level of animosity that has risen to staggering levels over the last year, to the point that, as I mentioned, they are not on speaking terms. My uncle sent out an email that was allegedly an attempt to bury the hatchet, but he's not that kind of guy; really, it was a CYA email so that when my mom refused to play nice, he could throw up his hands and say he tried. I attempted to convince my mother to play nice if only to spite him, she refused as expected, and now here we are.
Many emails went back and forth airing further grievances, and my mom attempted to organize an alternate dinner. My grandparents didn't want that, they wanted all of us to get together at my uncle's house. I had suggested an alternate location, they declined. One of the complaints aired via email was that the food wasn't good, so I offered to cook. My sister, who originally wasn't going to go, then agreed to attend. My mom is the lone hold out.
So I'm trying to get her to cave and come, since that is what my grandparents want.
Yeah, I don't think you're going to convince her through any "punishment" or "reward." The best thing you can probably do is be direct. Sit her down and say "mother stop acting like a child." If she doesn't come around after that there's nothing else you can really do.
But really, depending on your relationship with your mother, you should be blunt at this point... especially if their whole feud is over something that's silly like talking to his ex-wife. There are some bonds that are greater than others. One of them is family. Ask her if her being selfish is worth hurting her parent's feelings. Because that's what it comes down to. If it is, then there's nothing more you can do. You've done your part.
Nobody knows what's coming for them tomorrow, and it'd be pretty crappy if this one of their parent's last memories.
I think she's enjoying the attention, honestly. It's playing right into her hands but all you can really say is that you'll miss her company but you want to go because of your grandparents, regardless of the fact that your uncle is there and leave it at that.
Personally, I would ignore her but that will just make things worse. I am just as stubborn has her but you obviously are a much better mediator than me! :P
"If this is really going to be grandpa and grandma's last Christmas, wouldn't you want to spend it with them?"
If you can get her to say yes to that, it will be easier to guide her into agreeing to go. Probably won't work though. My mom is also not on speaking terms with one of her brothers and it's been going on for over twenty years, the last time we saw him was six years ago at their mothers funeral. You could ask your mom if that's really the next time she wants to see her brother, because it will come to that if they don't make up.
This.
Tell her to have fun being completely alone on Christmas like a mad spinters, cat-lady. Your mum is being silly and retarded (no offence, tbh I see where the uncle is coming from with the ex-wife thing) and you need to guilt-trip her. Imagine the resentment of her from her parents if one of them were to die before next Christmas and the resentment from the rest of the family that she is the sole reason for their last Christmas being a shitty, divided Christmas (it's solely her fault because uncle was able to cover his ass).
And then there'll be no turning back.
Tell her she's acting like Scrooge. This is ridiculously, the whole thing. I can't imagine your mother and uncle aren't on speaking terms because of the ex-wife thing. I can understand that he'd be pissed off, but completely cutting off all ties? Are they both quick to anger, volatile?
They both have tempers that should probably be controlled by medications, and they both hold grudges. My mother still gets absolutely furious at my father for "leaving her and ruining her life" and they got divorced over twenty years ago.
I am generally a much calmer individual, but this situation has lit even my slow fuse. I will admit to a bit of selfish concern in that I am worried that I won't be able to forgive my mother for this and will treat her poorly as a consequence.
He's hosting this thing, and is currently the bigger person for having invited her despite differences so that the family could be together. Is she going to let him get away with that? He's just doing it to get their attention, so that he can be the one in favor, and when they do eventually die, they'll remember the Christmas that he so graciously hosted, but she couldn't be bothered to attend. He's clearly trying to make her look like the bad guy, KNOWING full well she'll never go. In other words, he gets to be gracious and generous and look like he's putting their differences aside, make her look like the petty child, and get Christmas to himself all in one go... etc. You would be disappointed to see him get away with that.
In doing this, if you can pull off the proper level of disgust in delivery, you would appear to be on her side, while giving her a reason to go that plays to her apparent maturity level on this particular issue. If it works, she will probably even be on her best, most ingratiating behavior, with the possible downside of things blowing up later or backfiring during the actual event. It could work out really really well, or really really badly, or not at all. It really is terribly manipulative, but if your only concern is for the end result of getting her there for the holiday, this might work. Results would almost certainly be more desirable/stable if you come by a solution honestly, but asking if she's going to let him win as you're walking out the door as a last-ditch effort has at least a shot of getting her there.
I don't, and I'm a woman.
I'm pretty sure she's a woman.
You could tell her that. Her actions will effect more than just herself. Maybe she needs to be reminded of that?
Edit: Ceres is win.
Quoth's mother may well be immune to this sort of thing. There's a certain point of stubbornness and 'don't care' past which she's not even going to hear you when you talk about it. But there are also different kinds of stubborn, and she may be so blinded by the feelings toward her brother that she won't even notice.
I hate to say all of that because I'm a Libra, and I need fucking balance, dammit!!! But my wife's mother and aunt are the exact same way. In trying to be the better child, they are each accomplishing one thing: being children. Best of luck, and I suggest you just tell your mother flat out how YOU feel about it, explain what your grandfather said, and then let it be. If you need closure of your own after the fact, regardless of the outcome, privately tell your mother and uncle both (separately) that they fucked up Christmas for everyone, their elderly parents who may not be long for this world included.
Shitty situation, sorry
I wouldn't take the tack of "your parents are going to die so you're a terrible daughter for not going," but rather "grow the fuck up, we all have to put up with annoying family during the holidays."
No doubt your uncle's email was a bunch of passive-aggressive bullshit, but she really should just deal with it and go to Christmas with the family. If she makes a point of not going then she's the one who's unreasonable and distancing herself from the family.
If it works, do prepare for a sullen and drunken Christmas; it can be quite fun so long as you're not involved in the shouting and you don't mind your family making asses of themselves.
This assumes it's just personal dislike separating your mom and her brother. If there's something to justify avoidance (like abuse or something) then well, fuck, no happy christmas.
Quoth... are you... are you my secret sister?
We solved this exact issue last year by setting my Mum and my Uncle an opposite ends of a very long table. No enforced small talk between the two, and when the dinner ended they split for different ends of the house. Uncle left early and all was well afterwards.
And it WAS my Granddad's last year, so it was good that they all pulled together.
And yes ruz, I am sure we will sit them on opposite ends of the table. There are twenty of us so it shouldn't be too difficult to keep them separate.
Similar situation a few years back. I told my mom that she needed to grow up, and that if she was willing to put the rest of the family through this much pain just so she could live out a personal vendetta, than I would be ashamed to be her son.
She packed her bags the next morning.
Excellent news! I hope the dinner is a success, my good man. Best wishes!