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Help regarding leases and money owed
Garlic Bread
i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeable regular
i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeable regular
In August 2008 I rented a house (under a standard year lease) with six other people (although only three of them were on the lease along with me). However, after a few months (late October) I decided I didn't want to live there and asked to be taken off the lease so I could move out. I said it could take however long it really needed to for everyone to find a replacement for me, but it didn't take too long so by mid-November I was ready to start packing and stuff. The new roommate would be moving in mid-January 2009 so I said I could pay for December's rent and maybe half of January, since the new roommate would be moving in during the month. My rent was $600 per month.
I got my name off of the lease (everyone that was on the lease just resigned it, and another person that has been/is living there took my place on it) in the first week of December 2008 and moved out on December 6th.
I got a phone call at around midnight on December 22nd/23rd telling me that I needed to pay full rent for January 2009 in basically four days. I said that I couldn't because a)that wasn't what I agreed to, and b) I did not have the money. After I said this, one roommate started screaming and threatening me with legal action, didn't listen to anything I had to say, and just acted irrational (as is often the case with this roommate). After about an hour of getting screamed at through the phone, I agreed to pay $400 of the rent up front and another roommate would spot me $200 to pay him back. I did this because I was bullied into thinking that there was legal action that could be taken against me, and since it was 1:00AM and I didn't/don't know really anything regarded those types of laws, I was afraid of what could happen.
So now I'm out $400 (and soon to be $600, since I don't want to screw over the roommate that lent me the money) for rent in a place I haven't lived in for almost a month now, with the new roommate moving in on January 13th and getting half that month for free. I'm also out $1100 for both the security deposit (I contributed $500) and $600 for August 2009's (last month's) rent. I've e-mailed the landlord asking what could be done, since I think technically they are the ones that should be paying me that $1100 (since I paid it to them) and then charging the new person that or what have you, but they haven't gotten back to me yet.
I'm wondering what exactly can be done. Were they correct with threatening legal action? Could any legal action be taken against me, since I'm both a) not legally tied to the lease or property in any way and b) their argument was what they say I said and mine was what I said I said? Are there any steps I can take to getting back any of the $1700 I'm out for this place? As I said, I don't really know anything about the laws regarding this stuff, which is really my own fault I guess, but now I'm trying to learn from my mistakes.
I got my name off of the lease (everyone that was on the lease just resigned it, and another person that has been/is living there took my place on it) in the first week of December 2008 and moved out on December 6th.
I got a phone call at around midnight on December 22nd/23rd telling me that I needed to pay full rent for January 2009 in basically four days. I said that I couldn't because a)that wasn't what I agreed to, and b) I did not have the money. After I said this, one roommate started screaming and threatening me with legal action, didn't listen to anything I had to say, and just acted irrational (as is often the case with this roommate). After about an hour of getting screamed at through the phone, I agreed to pay $400 of the rent up front and another roommate would spot me $200 to pay him back. I did this because I was bullied into thinking that there was legal action that could be taken against me, and since it was 1:00AM and I didn't/don't know really anything regarded those types of laws, I was afraid of what could happen.
So now I'm out $400 (and soon to be $600, since I don't want to screw over the roommate that lent me the money) for rent in a place I haven't lived in for almost a month now, with the new roommate moving in on January 13th and getting half that month for free. I'm also out $1100 for both the security deposit (I contributed $500) and $600 for August 2009's (last month's) rent. I've e-mailed the landlord asking what could be done, since I think technically they are the ones that should be paying me that $1100 (since I paid it to them) and then charging the new person that or what have you, but they haven't gotten back to me yet.
I'm wondering what exactly can be done. Were they correct with threatening legal action? Could any legal action be taken against me, since I'm both a) not legally tied to the lease or property in any way and b) their argument was what they say I said and mine was what I said I said? Are there any steps I can take to getting back any of the $1700 I'm out for this place? As I said, I don't really know anything about the laws regarding this stuff, which is really my own fault I guess, but now I'm trying to learn from my mistakes.
Garlic Bread on
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it's just, you know, I'm out almost $2k and I'd really like to not be out that much money for no reason
This is all on you. Either confront everyone involved, or do nothing and be out 2k.
But I paid the security deposit and August 2009's rent to the landlords when I signed the lease. Should they have given it back to me when I got off of the lease?
Anyways, with six people on the lease, it's not all kept in 6 portions in the landlords office. It's a lump sum. You guys work it out how the money gets there, and they don't care how it's split up. They're not in charge of that stuff. If everyone goes off the lease, then they refund the money in a single lump sum to the forwarding address you leave. Then that person pays it out properly to the people he was living with.
You need to get the money from the incoming roommate, and the person who bullied you into paying.
Legally speaking, a verbal contract is absolutely enforcable. You owed what you agreed to pay, i.e. the half month. You owed nothing else until you agreed to pay more over the phone. As far as the deposits go, those are totally your responsibility. This is something you should have worked out with your roommates before you moved out.
Equitably speaking, you're getting boned. Your roommates should not have bullied you into paying more than you agreed to. That was a seriously dick move. Furthermore, the new roommate should be writing you a check for half a month's rent, which is what he agreed to. Additionally, I would say he should be writing you a check for half of the deposits you paid, to be refunded at the end of the lease. Your old roommates should realize that this is in THEIR best interest as well, as the guy who took your place has zero financial interest in keeping the house in good condition, or in following through with the lease. He could leave town tomorrow with no losses, and there would be absolutely nothing they could do about it. They'd be screwed.
Of course, all this advice is based on the assumption that your story is accurate.
As to the agreements you did or did not make verbally, really without something on paper, signed by both parties, you have no leg to stand on to get anything back. Take it as a very expensive lesson for your future.
Always get shit in writing. Always. If it involves money, it needs to involve something in writing, otherwise you're fucking yourself.
Why did you give them money? Why didn't you just hang up on that dude? Also, they way I make it, you're out 300 - you were going to pay for half of jan anyway.
As for the security deposit, your landlords hold that money as belonging to, essentially, the entity that is the signees of the lease. If you wanted a provision for getting any portion of that money back, you needed an agreement between your roomates to do so when one party moves - the best way to do this is an informal pro-rate on rent. But then, you shouldn't have payed the whole deposit up front if you were at all doubtful about the situation or hadn't collected money from all of them.
The best ways to handle a deposit are "one guy pays and gets it all back at the end" or "buy in and out of the deposits in equal shares," in a nutshell. The problem with method A is it takes trust of the roommates not to use up the deposit, and the problem with B is it's a lot of hassle.
The only way you're getting that deposit money back is if one of your old roomates is decent enough to pay it or organize that all of them pay it in cash, then they get paid back when they cash in the deposit.
I host a podcast about movies.
Thanks, guys.
I would take them to small claims court. They essentially committed minor fraud. Paying money is not like pleading guilty in court - he payed the money because he was told that he HAD to, NOT because he AGREED that he owed that money. In fact, he denied that obligations, both legally (through the lease cancellation), and verbally, when he set up the initial agreement for the January partial rent.
They played on his fear and ignorance of the law through threatening legal action. They essentially stole his money through false pretenses. It doesn't HAVE to be over $500 for legal action. If it was $5, you could take them to small claims court. And after being screwed by roomates for money owed for deposits, for utilities, for my half of the security deposit and stuff like this, if it ever happens again I'm in a position where I'm not going to sit back and say, "oh well, nothing I could do". Because there is.
Write down, go over phone records, and find the dates of your conversations. Document them.
Talk to the landlord, confirm the dates of the lease transfer. Id also ask him for your half of the security deposit (provided that YOU gave him a check for your portion, and not a roommate who you gave money to). Document the dates and content of these conversations EXACTLY.
I'd even write down the conversation you had with your roomates about the rent agreement.
Then go to small claims court and bring up this late-night intimidation, threats, and other crap.
Like i said earlier - just because you gave someone money doesn't mean you re-entered into a new verbal contract saying you owed them. I'm pretty sure that in this case, given the circumstances of forcing the money from him, that is not entirely accurate. But its also possible that I'm wrong.
Going to small claims court, at worst, will cost you some filing fees and make you feel like an ass.
At best, get your money and you screw those assholes who would not give you the money you are owed.
This is perfectly legal in Washington State (I just did it a few months ago).
In order to sue someone in small claims court, you have to sue them where the contract was executed, i.e. 3000 miles away from where the OP is living now. Filing fees aside, the plane trips would run up more than the case would be worth, even if he weren't pretty much guaranteed to lose (which he is).
Most leases have language that creates the lessees as a single party, meaning they are now "the lessees" and changes to the composition of "the lessees" don't affect policy for the landlords any more than your debt to a corporation goes away when they change CEOs. Most leases also have clauses for their own amendments short of dissolution.
I host a podcast about movies.
This is the last month of the lease; I'm not sure if the guys there are staying there or getting some place else, but it's the last month of the lease that I paid for.
Last night I messaged the guy who replaced me, asking if I would be getting any of the security deposit ($500 that I paid) and last month's rent ($600 that I paid) back from them. This morning I got a text from another member of the house that I prefer not to deal with.
I don't know where the "so much hanging" comes from, since as documented in this thread, the most I left them "hanging" with was $200 (that, according to my verbal agreements with them beforehand, I shouldn't have needed to pay them anyway), and here we're talking about $1100.
As I posted on December 28, 2008
It looks like I was right on that account.
Do I have any leg to stand on here in getting my money back?
edit: I talked to the guy that replaced me, and he said that the roommate that texted me this morning charged him $600 for this last month's rent that was already paid for (that the guy who replaced me didn't know).
Ignoring that the money should have gone to me, just the fact that the one roommate would charge another $600 for no reason, especially since this roommate is unemployed, just shows you what kind of people I'm dealing with.
and jesus... STOP BEING A FUCKING DOORMAT
"may i please possibly have some of my long gone money back, please, sir?"
needs to change to
"i am legally owed $X from the security deposit. unless i receive it by X date, i will see you in small claims court"
they're walking all over you b/c you're letting them.
But do you see who is winning here? It's the guy who is being an asshole. Why is he winning? In part because he's being a giant asshole. You don't have to be a jerk, but you do have to be very assertive and make it clear in no uncertain terms that they owe you money, and if you don't get it bad things will happen. (Bad things being considering taking them to small claims court. I don't advocate violence or property damage unless there's no way of you being caught.)
This isn't money that I "feel" is owed to me. It's money that is legally owed to me and they've acknowledged as such, but refuse to because I "caused trouble".
Combined with the now blatant fraud committed against the guy that replaced me in the house.
I mean, I'll have to look into small claims court and all, but still.
I wonder if I can be a TV court case.