Simple Routing Question SOLVED

The Snert

Hey all. I got a quick question for you all. My GF lives in graduate school housing in a 6 bedroom house. The house has a router which serves as a dhcp server that resolves six local ips for each bedroom. Each bedroom only has 1 live ethernet jack. She has a desktop PC, and a laptop, and wants to know if there is any way she can get both to have a connection.

So my question is this:

Can I use another router or switch, plug it into the wall and then get two IPs for both the desktop and the laptop?

RedDawn

If all she has to do is plug in her computer and go, a router should work just fine. It will take that IP and split it out to however many the router supports.

The only question is if she has some sort of login that she needs to input to access the connection. Sometimes places require a mac address to be registered, both of these situations can be worked around, but they take more than just plugging in the router and having it work.

The Snert

Thanks for the responce, Ok I think that should work then. No login is required, and no mac address registering either.

I do have another question regarding networking. So within the house she wants to set up a home network share and have it password protected, so that only certain roommates can access shared directories and files, by supplying a password. I tried googling a way to do this, and only got so far to turn off simple sharing so I can set permissions. Beyond this I got a little lost, so I'm hoping someone here can explain it for me?

Basically, Im looking for a way to have it so you go into workgroups, see her computer and be prompted for a user and password to access her files.

3lwap0

I would recommend a plain jane hub, not a router. There is quite a big difference between the two - a router will limit the broadcast domain, a hub is just a repeater. Get a hub, you'll be fine provided the dhcp server will issue more than 6 IPs.

EDIT: For shared drives:

1) I assume windows is the OS, make sure you have NTFS as opposed to FAT32. If you are indeed running FAT32, convert it to NTFS (C:\>convert c: /FS:NTFS).

2) Find your folders, and share them. Right click on them, go to properties, select the security tab, and make sure your share permissions are appropriate. (Just add the MACHINE NAME\Users group, anyone who has a local account is included t hen).

3) Anyone connecting to your share will need to authenticate. You can create a generic user account and password for this function, or specific ones for the housemates (I suggest the later). Make sure your shared folders have said users added to the security properties of the folder so they can access it (or just add the MACHINE NAME\Users group).

4) To have the housemates connect, have them Start>Run> '\\MACHINE NAME' and enter in thier supplied user name/password. They should see the shared folders, and be able to get what they need if you have configured the share permissions correctly.

I don't think I left anything out. Maybe I did. Gotta stop huffing the white out.

RedDawn

If you set up a router in her room, it will probably block of the rest of the house with a firewall. When that happens, people won't be able to see her computer anyways. I'm about to head home from work, I'll see if I can dig up any good literature on setting up home file sharing.

The Snert

If you set up a router in her room, it will probably block of the rest of the house with a firewall. When that happens, people won't be able to see her computer anyways. I'm about to head home from work, I'll see if I can dig up any good literature on setting up home file sharing.

Well, that does help with security, but she does want the people who she wants to share with, be able to see it. Plus, I think its knowledge I'd like to know, in case I'd be in this situation myself. I don't mind waiting for the answer.

I would recommend a plain jane hub, not a router. There is quite a big difference between the two - a router will limit the broadcast domain, a hub is just a repeater. Get a hub, you'll be fine provided the dhcp server will issue more than 6 IPs.

So any cheapo hub will do? I'm pretty sure it will issue more IPs, I just wasn't sure that any problems would arise on the cheapo hub's end.

3lwap0

Correct, just a hub. Not a switch, not a router (either would work mind you, but provide more features than you need or probably want).

vonPoonBurGer

3lwap0 wrote:

Correct, just a hub. Not a switch

Why not a switch? The only thing a switch does over a hub is remember what MAC address is talking on what port, so it directs traffic to the systems that actually want it, rather than broadcasting it to all ports. That's a good thing, as it means the OP's gf's desktop wouldn't be getting traffic destined for her laptop, and vice versa. Unless the switch is corporate-grade, with management features, it's no more configuration work than a hub, it's just plug in and go. It used to be that switches cost significantly more than hubs, but that's long since ceased to be the case. In fact, most of the computer stores I shop at don't even sell hubs anymore, the cheapest networking solution on offer is usually a 4-port switch for around $20. One of those would do fine for this situation.

The Snert

2) Find your folders, and share them. Right click on them, go to properties, select the security tab, and make sure your share permissions are appropriate. (Just add the MACHINE NAME\Users group, anyone who has a local account is included t hen).

Just to be sure I have this right, so I would add for example Sarah-Desktop\Mshome? (the machine name\workgroup which is the default, lawls)

3) Anyone connecting to your share will need to authenticate. You can create a generic user account and password for this function, or specific ones for the housemates (I suggest the later). Make sure your shared folders have said users added to the security properties of the folder so they can access it (or just add the MACHINE NAME\Users group).

I apologize since I'm not very savvy in this kind of stuff, so I'm lost on where/how to do this. Specifically the generic user account password function or ones for specific users. Would I add ROOMATE MACHINE NAME\Mshome here?


As for the hub/switch thing, I think I have my solution, thanks guys. I'll probably end up getting a cheapo switch, since yeah.. I dont remember the last time I've seen a hub sold anywhere, and for 20 bucks... that's the best bang for the buck for what my gf needs. Just wanted to be sure I didn't need to shell out for another router.

3lwap0

vonPoonBurGer wrote:

3lwap0 wrote:

Correct, just a hub. Not a switch

Why not a switch? The only thing a switch does over a hub is remember what MAC address is talking on what port, so it directs traffic to the systems that actually want it, rather than broadcasting it to all ports. That's a good thing, as it means the OP's gf's desktop wouldn't be getting traffic destined for her laptop, and vice versa. Unless the switch is corporate-grade, with management features, it's no more configuration work than a hub, it's just plug in and go. It used to be that switches cost significantly more than hubs, but that's long since ceased to be the case. In fact, most of the computer stores I shop at don't even sell hubs anymore, the cheapest networking solution on offer is usually a 4-port switch for around $20. One of those would do fine for this situation.

You make a fair arguement, and yet switches still need management, even if minor. A hub requires none. No offense to the OP, but as an IT professional, I always cater to the lowest common demoninator when I select hardware for clients - what's easiest for them to handle and not break (since I won't be managing it). For a seven computer network, your collison traffic will be very minor, and any appreciable difference a switch could provide would be minimal at best. And to clarify for you - switches don't prevent or re-direct a broadcast domain, they do create collision domains however. Ex: You'll still get NetBIOS broadcasts in your network overhead, or DHCP DISCOVER requests, etc., whatever. YMMV.

To the OP: Yes, Sarah-Desktop\Mshome is correct. After this, make sure any user accounts are members of the Mshome group. Ex: I create a folder named Files. I share the Files folder out, and in the security tab properties I add the group YODA1\Users (Taking care to check the Full Control box, so they may add, delete, or copy from the folder). Bob, Jim, and Tom need access to the Files share. I go to My Computer and Right click on it, selecting manage. I then traverse down to Local Users and Groups, and create 3 new users, Bob, Jim and Tom respectively. Since each account is automatically added to the Users group when I create the account, no futher management is needed other than to set a password for each account, and make sure the account is enabled. I instruct Bob, Jim, and Tom that to connect to the Files share, to got to Start > Run > and type in \\YODA1. A box will pop asking for a user name and password, which they will enter. YODA1's shares will appear, and they can select the Files share.

So using your example, make sure the users you create are members of the MShome group, and they should have access.

Of course, this begs the question: You're running XP Home yes? Do you know if your running NTFS or FAT32?

The Snert

No offense to the OP, but as an IT professional, I always cater to the lowest common demoninator when I select hardware for clients - what's easiest for them to handle and not break (since I won't be managing it).

None taken.

To answer your question, yep, everyone is running Xp Home, and everyone's NTFS. Thanks for all the help, I will try to do what you suggested!

The Snert

To the OP: Yes, Sarah-Desktop\Mshome is correct. After this, make sure any user accounts are members of the Mshome group. Ex: I create a folder named Files. I share the Files folder out, and in the security tab properties I add the group YODA1\Users (Taking care to check the Full Control box, so they may add, delete, or copy from the folder). Bob, Jim, and Tom need access to the Files share. I go to My Computer and Right click on it, selecting manage. I then traverse down to Local Users and Groups, and create 3 new users, Bob, Jim and Tom respectively. Since each account is automatically added to the Users group when I create the account, no futher management is needed other than to set a password for each account, and make sure the account is enabled. I instruct Bob, Jim, and Tom that to connect to the Files share, to got to Start > Run > and type in \\YODA1. A box will pop asking for a user name and password, which they will enter. YODA1's shares will appear, and they can select the Files share.

Still not getting it. Whenever I try to add the users in the security tab for the folder I need to be shared, say for example Tom\Users, it says "The object named "Tom\users" is not from a domain listed in the Select Location dialog box, and is therefore not valid."

In addition, I tried entering this said user under Local Users and Groups, and when trying to connect to \\Sarah-Desktop, they can just simply connect, they are not prompted for a password.

3lwap0

Is simple file sharing turned on? If so, when a user connects they'll always connect as Guest, not the account you created.

exoplasm

Re: file sharing

Just enable the local guest account and give it almost full control to the folder (never click the full control checkbox, security nightmare). Adding local users to your computer for each person is only necessary if you have different shared folders on your computer for each person, in which case you would likely be using a file server anyway.

Re: switches vs hubs.

I'm not sure why ANYONE would use a hub in any modern network. I don't even know where to buy a hub. Seriously, at my last job I went to 5 different computer stores to find a simple hub specifically for looking at ethernet packets for a problem on the network. The only one I could find was a 16 port discontinued netgear behemoth that was priced at $200.

There is no reason to use a hub over a switch unless you need to examine packets going through the network before it reaches its destination.

And I have never seen any consumer-grade switches that require any kind of management whatsoever. At most you might find an uplink port with a toggle button, which is simple: just plug that into the ethernet walljack. The only switches that need management are the $200+ corporate business class switches.

Additionally if you get a router (they can be cheaper than switches after rebates sometimes) you can use it as a switch by turning off its DHCP server and not using the WAN port for anything. Just make sure to change the IP address to not conflict with the main router.

The Snert

No, Simple file sharing is turned off.

edit: Ok, I think I'm a dumbass and got confused. I was thinking Local user as in Local on the network. Not local user on the machine. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is that why this isn't working?

The machine who is hosting the files is Sarah. I want to connect to the files on a machine that is named Tom. Do I need a Local User named Tom on the Sarah machine?

exoplasm

No to local users. Just enable the guest account on all machines and give guest permissions to all shared folders (not just in the sharing tab, also the security tab!).

see this image for reference:

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/9716/sharingfi2.png

3lwap0

Enabling guest account works, but it doesn't provide granular control over who can access what.

Try this link, it has good screenshots link

Yes, local users just on Sarah's computer, not on anyone's computer who wants to connect to it. Why I type \\Sarah's Desktop, a box appears, I enter the account name located on Sarah's computer and my password, and bam, i'm in.

The Snert

Sweet, got everything figured out. That link helped alot.

3lwap0

Good Rock on mate.