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The Framerate Conundrum (Comp. Thread)
Gaffer
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
A bit of backstory before we delve into specs:
The current workstation I'm using was picked up refurbished over the summer for college/pleasure use. I found that it's integrated graphics were more than sufficient to play most games on comfortable settings. I was getting well into the double digits in frames while playing Guild Wars and later Left 4 Dead on pretty High settings with very little choppiness or stuttering. Even Oblivion, ran pretty well on medium-high.
Fast forward to the present and I'm getting poor performance in Left 4 Dead (10-20 Frames) Guild Wars (10-30) and Fallout 3 (~15). Thus far I've defragged drive C, cleaned up old files, run a mem test, changed drivers from new back to the originals the workstation came loaded with. Nothing has yet worked. My brother has a similar machine (supports slightly higher resolution, has slightly faster cpu, more memory) and far outstrips mine (though this was not always the case.) Can't point as to the exact moment I've noticed specs slipping, though I seem to remember good performance before thanksgiving and Fallout 3 (mid-december installed)
I've turned down settings in an effort to up playability of these games, though this effect has been marginal at best (changing graphics sliders in Guild Wars had achieved no difference in performance for me.
Now Specs, courtesy of dxdiag:
Operating System: Windows Vistaâ„¢ Business (6.0, Build 6001) Service Pack 1
System Manufacturer: Dell Inc.
System Model: Precision M6300
BIOS: Phoenix ROM BIOS PLUS Version 1.10 A08
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7250 @ 2.00GHz (2 CPUs), ~2.0GHz
Memory: 2046MB RAM
Page File: 992MB used, 3337MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 10
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
Card name: NVIDIA Quadro FX 1600M
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: Quadro FX 1600M
DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
Display Memory: 1002 MB
Dedicated Memory: 235 MB
Shared Memory: 767 MB
Driver Name: nvd3dum.dll,nvwgf2um.dll
Driver Version: 7.15.0011.5620 (English)
DDI Version: 10
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
If anybody has any thoughts as to how I could continue troubleshooting this, I would be much obliged. This isn't a traditional PC per se, so information isn't as forthcoming on other tech forums that I've browsed.
The current workstation I'm using was picked up refurbished over the summer for college/pleasure use. I found that it's integrated graphics were more than sufficient to play most games on comfortable settings. I was getting well into the double digits in frames while playing Guild Wars and later Left 4 Dead on pretty High settings with very little choppiness or stuttering. Even Oblivion, ran pretty well on medium-high.
Fast forward to the present and I'm getting poor performance in Left 4 Dead (10-20 Frames) Guild Wars (10-30) and Fallout 3 (~15). Thus far I've defragged drive C, cleaned up old files, run a mem test, changed drivers from new back to the originals the workstation came loaded with. Nothing has yet worked. My brother has a similar machine (supports slightly higher resolution, has slightly faster cpu, more memory) and far outstrips mine (though this was not always the case.) Can't point as to the exact moment I've noticed specs slipping, though I seem to remember good performance before thanksgiving and Fallout 3 (mid-december installed)
I've turned down settings in an effort to up playability of these games, though this effect has been marginal at best (changing graphics sliders in Guild Wars had achieved no difference in performance for me.
Now Specs, courtesy of dxdiag:
Operating System: Windows Vistaâ„¢ Business (6.0, Build 6001) Service Pack 1
System Manufacturer: Dell Inc.
System Model: Precision M6300
BIOS: Phoenix ROM BIOS PLUS Version 1.10 A08
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7250 @ 2.00GHz (2 CPUs), ~2.0GHz
Memory: 2046MB RAM
Page File: 992MB used, 3337MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 10
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
Card name: NVIDIA Quadro FX 1600M
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: Quadro FX 1600M
DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
Display Memory: 1002 MB
Dedicated Memory: 235 MB
Shared Memory: 767 MB
Driver Name: nvd3dum.dll,nvwgf2um.dll
Driver Version: 7.15.0011.5620 (English)
DDI Version: 10
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
If anybody has any thoughts as to how I could continue troubleshooting this, I would be much obliged. This isn't a traditional PC per se, so information isn't as forthcoming on other tech forums that I've browsed.
Gaffer on
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I think you're quite right except this sounds as though it's a laptop (T7250 proc/1600M g/card) On which case I think the only step you have is looking at getting a set of geforce drivers for it which should improve the performance to 8600m/8700m levels.
However you'll have to look/ask around as to how to do it.
1) nVidia's Quadro series is made for workstations, not for gaming. It will not pump out equivalent FPS to a gaming card.
2) Memory. Current desktops should run a minimum of 2GB with Vista. This is separate from the graphics card, which usually boasts 512MB or more dedicated memory (at least for most gaming cards). You have 2GB, but ~1GB is shared to your graphics card and the card only has a dedicated 236MB. This means your system has less storage space for things like textures and pre-rendered objects, so it has to pull things up and figure them out more often (from the hard drive, which is about two orders of magnitude slower than on-card RAM). Since it is shared, it is also fighting with the OS as to who gets to use it, which takes time to occur. Even delays in tens of milliseconds will affect the FPS of a game since we're talking fractions of seconds per frame.
Different drivers may help some performance, because they'd be optimized for gaming, but you are talking about some of the most recent games (well, except for guild wars, but the answer to that is easy and described below). There is only so much drivers can give you. Your CPU isn't amazing, but 2GZ is fine enough. Since it is dual core, the game should get the vast majority of one core to itself.
As for Guild Wars. Any MMO's major bottleneck is the RAM. There are so many textures and special effects and modules and information and it is ALL on demand. That means the system needs a whole lot of RAM to hold everything so that it may run smoothly without having to wait for information to be pulled off the hard drive. I've seen one stick more of RAM increase someone's performance in an MMO from slide-show to video game time and again.
Now, unfortunately you have a laptop. As for suggestions, you can make sure Windows isn't trying to do things behind the scenes while you play which may consume RAM. Make sure your virus scanner (if you have one) isn't in "scan everything that is being read or written before letting it complete" super paranoid mode. Make sure you aren't doing anything else, like ripping DVDs or listening to music or even running iTunes. Heck, if possible, make the game you are playing the only running process (or as near as you can manage). Any extra RAM will help and most laptops make adding RAM relatively simple.
I'd also recommend changing your page file setting. Give it 3GB min AND max (3072 MB). If the system has to pause to grow a page file, it will cause a performance hit. You also want it to be larger than your total RAM by 1.5-2x so that, if ever necessary, the entire block of RAM can be dumped (FYI - page file is a place on the hard drive where windows can dump RAM data temporarily, instead of simply overwriting it. It is still slow because it is the hard drive, but it means the system won't need to recalculate the data all over again). I don't know exactly how to set this in Vista (still have XP myself), but it should be easy to find instructions.
If you could post the same data from your brother's computer, we could give some info on why the performance is different.
Murphy's Paradox: The more you plan, the more that can go wrong. The less you plan, the less likely your plan will succeed.
Operating System: Windows Vistaâ„¢ Business (6.0, Build 6001) Service Pack 1
System Manufacturer: Dell Inc.
System Model: Precision M6300
BIOS: Phoenix ROM BIOS PLUS Version 1.10 A09
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T8300 @ 2.40GHz (2 CPUs), ~2.4GHz
Memory: 3070MB RAM
Page File: 992MB used, 5360MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 10
Card name: NVIDIA Quadro FX 1600M
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: Quadro FX 1600M
DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
Display Memory: 1523 MB
Dedicated Memory: 243 MB
Shared Memory: 1279 MB
Current Mode: 1920 x 1200 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor: Generic PnP Monitor
Driver Name: nvd3dum.dll,nvwgf2um.dll
Driver Version: 7.15.0011.7575 (English)
DDI Version: 10
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 5/7/2008 14:59:00
We have tried using compressed air to push dust out and improve ventilation. I guess he'll try adjusting his page file and see what happens, though he seems to feel that his performance is taking a hit from system processes/hard disk activity though the task manager never seems to show anything unusual.
I think I'll try looking into heat/fans next. Thoughts?
Cores - 60C
This is idle (not good methinks; getting bros info right now). Not good methinks.
His (after closing out of playing Oblivion to dl the app)
GPU @57C
Cores @~36C
Edit: Jumping to about 70C under load during Guild Wars. Looking for a away to check how my fans are operating before I think about opening the workstation up.
Edit Two: GPU resting at about 60, Cores now at 52. Speed Fan isn't giving me info on fan speeds. Perhaps my hardware doesn't support this?
Hmm, core temperature shouldn't be that high. His processor is better by ~20%, which definitely will help, but I wouldn't really assume it would affect things by that much (not causing a +24 C temperature jump). Are your fans running? Do they sound as loud as his when playing a game? It could be that something is up with the power settings and your fans simply aren't being cranked up when they are supposed to - the heat may then cause the CPU to downclock in order to prevent system melting... unusual method but fully possible.
Another thing I just noticed as that your BIOS is a different version. I'd go see if you can find information on the fixes in 1.10 A09 over A08 and see if there's anything mentioned that may even vaguely be related to performance. Another option is to see if you can find any CPU testers that may be able to verify that it is actually running at the stated 2.0GHz. Check if there's anything that came pre-installed, or on some system disc, or online, that can check that and if there is any performance stepping.
Out of curiosity, are you plugged into a wall when playing?
Murphy's Paradox: The more you plan, the more that can go wrong. The less you plan, the less likely your plan will succeed.
1). I play with battery charger plugged in on high performance settings (as does Gaffero)
2). I'm betting the heat is causing some of the downclocking. Speedfan isn't helping me get info on my fans, so I'll poke through BIOS again to see if it's in there.
3). Aftermarket cooling options?
Murphy's Paradox: The more you plan, the more that can go wrong. The less you plan, the less likely your plan will succeed.
Still can't find info about stock fans on this system even after updating BIOS, thoughts? I want to make sure I'm doing everything possible to keep this system cool if the damage isn't already done.
At the tail end of my Left 4 Dead session today, I began experiencing artifacting and jagged textures and periods of time where I was unable to move yet my teammates were unaffected. The GPU temp has been crossing 80C under load whereas the CPUs are about 60C constant
Suggestions as to how to proceed?
Maybe try if RivaTuner gives you any information about the video card fans? (Stay away from the overclocking options, of course)
Didn't nVidia just release all-purpose drivers for mobile video cards? (like forceware for desktops)? That's also worth a shot.
/edit: meh, http://www.nvidia.com/object/notebook_drivers.html says it's not for Quadro FX.
For general performance (unrelated to heat etc) get more RAM, like MurphysParadox said.
Do not continue to use it. The thing is overheating, and any further use could fuck it up beyond repair.
Edit: Still under warranty as far as I can tell