E Cigarettes -- Anyone Tried it?

Bamelin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyvljpbiVbw

I saw a news report a few days ago about "E" Cigarettes -- electronic smokes that essentially deliver nicotine doses just like a regular smoke, but they do not have any of the harmful chemicals, second hand smoke, smell, etc that normal cigs have.

Currently the product is pretty much unregulated in the US and Canada. It appears the use of such products is growing rapidly as folks learn about it. Some companies are marketing it as a way to "quit smoking", others as a smoking replacement.

Speaking for myself, I love to smoke, and if I can do so without any of the rather ugly side effects, I may just pick one of these things up.

Have any of you tried these things?

Here is the link to the news report I saw on CBC: http://www.cbc.ca/video/popup_nlp.html?http://www.cbc.ca/mrl3/8752/news/features/durham-electronic-smoke-090102.wmv

Pheezer

That sounds like just about the dorkiest thing ever, and smoking is absurd. I hope it gives you simulated cancer, too.

Ego

Nicotine intake method seems to have a relation to how bad it is for you, so to me at least this seems clever enough. Then again, I think life is about having fun. As opposed to wishing cancer on people, I mean. Oh well, there's room for all sorts .

Bamelin

Pheezer wrote: »

That sounds like just about the dorkiest thing ever, and smoking is absurd. I hope it gives you simulated cancer, too.

It's true that smoking REAL cigarettes is bad for you, thanks to the thousands of chemicals that real smokes contain when burned.

These things on the other hand release an oderlous vapour (water). Nicotine is contained within the water. Isn't nicotine (on it's own and taken in moderation) no worse for you than say caffeine in coffee? I always thought that the "bad" part of smoking cigs comes from all the chemicals and smoke inhaltion.

Assuming this, these E-cigs may be a godsend (for me at least). I can enjoy a nicotine fix without having to worry about the major health issues that come with smoking real cigs ...

Neaden

Wouldn't this just be like using a nicotine patch? They also have nicotine inhalers out already to, so I'm failing to see what is so significant about this.

Bamelin

The signifigance is that I could walk into Walmart and "vape up" ... or a bar (smoking in bars is banned in many major cities), or a university lecture, or on a plane, or on the subway, or at work at my desk .... all the places that you aren't allowed to "smoke".

This isn't smoking so the same rules don't apply. From trolling around the net today, it seems to me that these E cigs deliver basically the same feeling as smoking a real cigarette ... it's true that some folks are using it to "quit" but I think you'll find the vast majority are using it as an alternative to smoking (something I'm considering).

I'm kind of wondering how anti smoking nazis will react to seeing folks puffing away happily on their e cigs in all the places normal smokes are not allowed.

Darmak

Neaden wrote: »

Wouldn't this just be like using a nicotine patch? They also have nicotine inhalers out already to, so I'm failing to see what is so significant about this.

Because now you can still look cool while getting your nicotine fix.

Also, I swear I'm not one of those smarmy, militant anti-smoking faggots that goes out of my way to tell you how much of a fuckup you are for smoking or whatever. I smoked for 5-6 years and enjoyed it, there is nothing better than eating an excellent meal and smoking a cigarette. Those other people piss me off though, if someone wants to smoke than let them enjoy it. Don't be such a fucking douche (not targeting anyone here). Sorry, the subject gets me all worked up. :?

edit: Also, with this you could "smoke" while playing a game and not get smoke directly from the cig in your eye and you wouldn't have to tap the ashes off.

Fandyien

This is significant because it lets you get your nicotine fix in a familiar, satisfying way.

I would really like to try one of these. Potentially even switch to one. I have no problem being addicted to nicotine, I just hate the awful cough cigarettes give me.

Bacon-BuTTy

I am actually super interested in these, but the market is flooded with all kinds of imitations which makes it confusing and really puts me off.

Also, they should be sold in shops, I don't like the idea of relying on internet shopping to get my nicotine.

Bamelin

I found alot of good information here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/

It seems to be the focal forum community for the emerging e cig movement, and more importantly you can find out what brands are good and which one's suck. I think I'm half considering buying one of these things to try out, see if I feel better than I do smoking regular cigs.

Azio

I saw a news report a few days ago about "E" Cigarettes -- electronic smokes that essentially deliver nicotine doses just like a regular smoke, but they do not have any of the harmful chemicals, second hand smoke, smell, etc that normal cigs have.

Nicotine itself is a harmful chemical. It raises your heart rate and blood pressure and acts as a vasoconstrictor, which means your heart is not only beating faster but has to work harder as well. It speeds the growth of cancerous cells and helps to turn precancerous cells into cancerous cells. And it is highly addictive to boot.

If you're concerned about the health effects of smoking then maybe you should stop smoking.

Also, if someone decided to light one of these up in a non-smoking area, and refused to put it out on the grounds that it's a vapourizer, I would not be pleased. I don't walk around puffing on a weed vapourizer because it's disrespectful to the people around me. I don't care if you're addicted. Either go somewhere private, or go outside.

Brodo Faggins

Neaden wrote: »

Wouldn't this just be like using a nicotine patch? They also have nicotine inhalers out already to, so I'm failing to see what is so significant about this.

A lot of the addiction comes from the habit and the oral fixation. My neighbor quit and one of the ways she kicked the oral fixation was to chew minty toothpicks.

Bacon-BuTTy

Bamelin wrote: »

I found alot of good information here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/

It seems to be the focal forum community for the emerging e cig movement, and more importantly you can find out what brands are good and which one's suck. I think I'm half considering buying one of these things to try out, see if I feel better than I do smoking regular cigs.

I'm totally considering buying one of these.

I just have no idea which one.

Einhander

The thing about e-cigs is that it's pretty awesome that you can get all of the nicotine you are addicted to without having to have the additional chemicals that are packed into a cigarette.

But why stop there? Why not just have a little nicotine pill you can take so you don't even have to dork it up with a fake cigarette? But if you're going that far, then what's the point?

If all you crave is nicotine, why not just use e-cigarettes to stop smoking instead of just switching to them? It's my understanding that once you are smoking for a while, you lose that initial rush, so if you switch to e-cigs you're pretty much at the point where you're just putting a chemical into your body for no reason.

Switching to e-cigs exclusively would be pretty dumb. If you're at the point where you can manage your addiction with a small dose of nicotine from a fake cigarette that lacks all of the disgusting extras (and, to be fair, the experience, the rush, and the romanticism) of a real smokey cigarette, you might as well just quit.

I can understand the allure of a cigarette, a nice premium cigarette like a perique or something with some high quality aromatic tobacco smoked with a stiff drink on an outdoor patio with friends can be heavenly. But if you are someone who smokes on a regular basis and then gets all butthurt when people judge you for it, you're an idiot.

You lose all that romanticism when you're scrounging through your couch trying to scrape up enough change so you can pick up a pack of $3 Sonomas at the corner minimart because it's the day before payday and you have to smoke something.

tofu

An interesting idea, although I doubt it will catch on. Cigarettes have been romanticized so much by tobacco companies that they'll never be replaced, I think.

Bama

Einhander wrote: »

If all you crave is nicotine, why not just use e-cigarettes to stop smoking instead of just switching to them? It's my understanding that once you are smoking for a while, you lose that initial rush, so if you switch to e-cigs you're pretty much at the point where you're just putting a chemical into your body for no reason.

Switching to e-cigs exclusively would be pretty dumb. If you're at the point where you can manage your addiction with a small dose of nicotine from a fake cigarette that lacks all of the disgusting extras (and, to be fair, the experience, the rush, and the romanticism) of a real smokey cigarette, you might as well just quit.

So if you're at the point where you can manage your addiction by indulging it then you may as well quit? All you're saying is "if you're addicted, you may as well just quit."

TheMorningStar

Azio wrote: »

Also, if someone decided to light one of these up in a non-smoking area, and refused to put it out on the grounds that it's a vapourizer, I would not be pleased. I don't walk around puffing on a weed vapourizer because it's disrespectful to the people around me. I don't care if you're addicted. Either go somewhere private, or go outside.

Why?

I mean, I hate people who wear t-shirts that have "funny" sayings on them, or dramatic paintings of wolves but I don't give two fucks if they wear them and I have no right to make them stop.

Hell, if it's just vapor then people with bad B.O. would be more annoying than this.

TL DR

I think it's really neat looking. Vaporizers have been around for quite a bit (most are just a soldering iron-type device used to smoke weed). Anyone have more technical info on it? Is the vapor just dispersed from the cartridge, or is there a heating element?

TL DR

Azio wrote: »

I saw a news report a few days ago about "E" Cigarettes -- electronic smokes that essentially deliver nicotine doses just like a regular smoke, but they do not have any of the harmful chemicals, second hand smoke, smell, etc that normal cigs have.

Nicotine itself is a harmful chemical. It raises your heart rate and blood pressure and acts as a vasoconstrictor, which means your heart is not only beating faster but has to work harder as well. It speeds the growth of cancerous cells and helps to turn precancerous cells into cancerous cells. And it is highly addictive to boot.

If you're concerned about the health effects of smoking then maybe you should stop smoking.

Also, if someone decided to light one of these up in a non-smoking area, and refused to put it out on the grounds that it's a vapourizer, I would not be pleased. I don't walk around puffing on a weed vapourizer because it's disrespectful to the people around me. I don't care if you're addicted. Either go somewhere private, or go outside.

Why? If there's no smell, and there's no burning plant matter to emit toxic chemicals, what's it to you?

Einhander

Bama wrote: »

So if you're at the point where you can manage your addiction by indulging it then you may as well quit? All you're saying is "if you're addicted, you may as well just quit."

I'm saying that if you're addicted to a chemical that you are obtaining via a method that gives you that chemical with no benefits, you might as well just quit.

The way I mean to explain it is that if you're craving a pill, and you're taking the pill for the sole purpose of making your craving go away, you might as well just quit. Smoking an e-cigarette exclusively gives you nicotine and nothing more. You don't get any of the associated "benefits" (like I mentioned, the exerience of smoking an actual cigarette, the romanticism, drawing actual smoke into your lungs) from an e-cig, only nicotine.

I just think that if you're at the point where you can quell your cravings with nicotine and nicotine alone, then you may as well quit, since your delivery method doesn't give any of the benefits associated with smoking an actual cigarette.

tofu

Einhander wrote: »

Bama wrote: »

So if you're at the point where you can manage your addiction by indulging it then you may as well quit? All you're saying is "if you're addicted, you may as well just quit."

I'm saying that if you're addicted to a chemical that you are obtaining via a method that gives you that chemical with no benefits, you might as well just quit.

The way I mean to explain it is that if you're craving a pill, and you're taking the pill for the sole purpose of making your craving go away, you might as well just quit. Smoking an e-cigarette exclusively gives you nicotine and nothing more. You don't get any of the associated "benefits" (like I mentioned, the exerience of smoking an actual cigarette, the romanticism, drawing actual smoke into your lungs) from an e-cig, only nicotine.

I just think that if you're at the point where you can quell your cravings with nicotine and nicotine alone, then you may as well quit, since your delivery method doesn't give any of the benefits associated with smoking an actual cigarette.

Nicotine has many physiological effects, it is a stimulant.

Einhander

But doesn't repeated exposure to nicotine cause it to lose it's effect as a stimulant? If you've been smoking for a while, what effect does nicotine have on your body versus someone who is smoking for the first time?

Bama

Einhander wrote: »

But doesn't repeated exposure to nicotine cause it to lose it's effect as a stimulant? If you've been smoking for a while, what effect does nicotine have on your body versus someone who is smoking for the first time?

I've rarely ever smoked, so I can only point you to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine_withdrawal

Einhander

I'm the same way. I'll only smoke every once in a while when I go out to a bar that has an outdoor patio. I'll probably buy a pack of periques, get drunk while I chainsmoke ten of them on the outdoor patio, give the rest away to pretty girls at the bar, and then not buy another for two or three months.

This way I don't get hooked, and I still get that initial nicotine rush every time.

I just wonder how long it takes when a person is a regular smoker before nicotine loses it's stimulating effects.

TL DR

A bit of quick research shows that there is a heating element, but it doesn't get nearly hot enough for vaporization of anything immoral.

tofu

Einhander wrote: »

But doesn't repeated exposure to nicotine cause it to lose it's effect as a stimulant? If you've been smoking for a while, what effect does nicotine have on your body versus someone who is smoking for the first time?

And you build up a tolerance to ethanol too, what's your point?

Einhander

The point is, if you're introducing a chemical into your body that has no effect other than to temporarily quell your craving for the chemical (as in, using an e-cigarette), why are you wasting your time?

Evander

Bamelin wrote: »

I'm kind of wondering how anti smoking nazis will react to seeing folks puffing away happily on their e cigs in all the places normal smokes are not allowed.

I, for one, would be opposed to allowing it in places where smoking is otherwise banned, because it would create a good deal of confusion.

I am, however, opposed to governmental smoking bans (so consider that before lashing back at me.) Personally, I think the decision to allow smoking or not should be up to each individual establishment.

tofu

Einhander wrote: »

The point is, if you're introducing a chemical into your body that has no effect other than to temporarily quell your craving for the chemical (as in, using an e-cigarette), why are you wasting your time?

Because it has other physiological effects. Like I just said, nicotine is a stimulant.

Evander

Einhander wrote: »

The point is, if you're introducing a chemical into your body that has no effect other than to temporarily quell your craving for the chemical (as in, using an e-cigarette), why are you wasting your time?

There are definitely other effects of nicotine. The anti-smoking movement has downplayed them all, because it's easiest to just tell kids that smoking is 100% bad.

I believe that it's important to keep kinds from picking up habits which are detrimental to their health (and smoking definitely is) but the whole lying angle bothers me.

edit: I apologize for that first line. Hadn't read the rest of the previous page.

TL DR

Erowid wrote:

Nicotine exerts paradoxical effects, acting as both a stimulant and a relaxant. It causes increased heart rate and blood pressure while also acting as a muscle relaxant and reducing anxiety. It suppresses appetite and causes increased bowel activity. Initial exposure may result in nausea, dizziness, or light-headedness.

The experiential effects of nicotine change with habituation. Those new to the drug often experience light-headedness and strong mental effects where those who use nicotine regularly do not generally experience those effects. Over time, the effects of nicotine are not only calming but are said to enhance attentional focus and increase the pleasure of other activities. Research published in 2006 by Kenny and Markou suggested that nicotine "resets the sensitivity of reward systems to a new increased level, thereby impriting an indelible 'memory' of its effects". In other words, smoke a cigarette and eat an apple, the apple seems to be just a little more satisfying than the apple without the cigarette.

Einhander

tofu wrote: »

Einhander wrote: »

The point is, if you're introducing a chemical into your body that has no effect other than to temporarily quell your craving for the chemical (as in, using an e-cigarette), why are you wasting your time?

Because it has other physiological effects. Like I just said, nicotine is a stimulant.

But if your body has built up a tolerance to nicotine to the point where you no longer gain it's stimulating effects when you introduce it into your body, then why bother?

tofu

Einhander wrote: »

tofu wrote: »

Einhander wrote: »

The point is, if you're introducing a chemical into your body that has no effect other than to temporarily quell your craving for the chemical (as in, using an e-cigarette), why are you wasting your time?

Because it has other physiological effects. Like I just said, nicotine is a stimulant.

But if your body has built up a tolerance to nicotine to the point where you no longer gain it's stimulating effects when you introduce it into your body, then why bother?

How is this an exclusive problem to e-cigarettes?

Einhander

Erowid seems to know their stuff, but I have a hard time buying that paragraph.

Einhander

tofu wrote: »

Einhander wrote: »

tofu wrote: »

Einhander wrote: »

The point is, if you're introducing a chemical into your body that has no effect other than to temporarily quell your craving for the chemical (as in, using an e-cigarette), why are you wasting your time?

Because it has other physiological effects. Like I just said, nicotine is a stimulant.

But if your body has built up a tolerance to nicotine to the point where you no longer gain it's stimulating effects when you introduce it into your body, then why bother?

How is this an exclusive problem to e-cigarettes?

Because, like I mentioned earlier in the thread, some people have expressed interest in switching from regular cigarettes to e-cigarettes, so that they can relieve their cravings, but significantly lower the detrimental effect smoking has on their body.

But, if you're at the stage where you can satiate your cravings with nicotine alone, and if you are at the point where your body does not gain any positive effects from nicotine, then why would you continue to introduce it into your body when you could quit instead?

Evander

tolerance works in different ways for different people

Bamelin

Einhander wrote: »

The point is, if you're introducing a chemical into your body that has no effect other than to temporarily quell your craving for the chemical (as in, using an e-cigarette), why are you wasting your time?

Nicotine is great after a coffee, great after sex, is used by many to relax after a hard day at work or during a coffee break ...

That initial "rush" never goes away btw. As a long time smoker I can say that smoking really eases my nerves ... it's true that's partly the addiction talking, but no more so than somebody who craves caffeine in the morning to "get going".

I enjoy smoking. If I can get that enjoyment minus all the negatives (odor, 4000+ tobacco chemicals in smokes, health risks, etc) why not?

Personally I believe nicotine taken in moderation is no more dangerous a drug than alcohol, weed, caffeine, and other stimulants. So far it looks to me that E cigarettes are a SAFER way to indulge in a habit I get enjoyment from. (mind you this is based on very minimal research -- there have been basically no studies done on e cigs at all).

Why not then?

A quick google search shows that e cigs are growing in popularity ... and given the (assumed) benefits over regular cigs this comes as no surprise? E cigs allow one to smoke in public places that regular cigarettes are banned, and no law is being broke. I can go back to bars and enjoy an e smoke with my beer, have an E cig at the restaurant after dinner, and all the things I miss being able to do.

Mind you I fully believe that if E cigs really go mainstream the government will step in and either ban them entirely or tax it to death just like they do with regular cigarettes. In Australia they have already been banned (Victoria) with very little (none) research on why. Big tobacco and the anti smoking movement have too much to lose if e cigs really are that much healthier.

autono-wally, erotibot300

Timothy Leary Come Check Out This Theory wrote: »

Erowid wrote:

Nicotine exerts paradoxical effects, acting as both a stimulant and a relaxant. It causes increased heart rate and blood pressure while also acting as a muscle relaxant and reducing anxiety. It suppresses appetite and causes increased bowel activity. Initial exposure may result in nausea, dizziness, or light-headedness.

The experiential effects of nicotine change with habituation. Those new to the drug often experience light-headedness and strong mental effects where those who use nicotine regularly do not generally experience those effects. Over time, the effects of nicotine are not only calming but are said to enhance attentional focus and increase the pleasure of other activities. Research published in 2006 by Kenny and Markou suggested that nicotine "resets the sensitivity of reward systems to a new increased level, thereby impriting an indelible 'memory' of its effects". In other words, smoke a cigarette and eat an apple, the apple seems to be just a little more satisfying than the apple without the cigarette.

So, smoking after sex..

Evander

Bamelin wrote: »

Big tobacco and the anti smoking movement have too much to lose if e cigs really are that much healthier.

Evander

autono-wally, erotibot300 wrote: »

Timothy Leary Come Check Out This Theory wrote: »

Erowid wrote:

Nicotine exerts paradoxical effects, acting as both a stimulant and a relaxant. It causes increased heart rate and blood pressure while also acting as a muscle relaxant and reducing anxiety. It suppresses appetite and causes increased bowel activity. Initial exposure may result in nausea, dizziness, or light-headedness.

The experiential effects of nicotine change with habituation. Those new to the drug often experience light-headedness and strong mental effects where those who use nicotine regularly do not generally experience those effects. Over time, the effects of nicotine are not only calming but are said to enhance attentional focus and increase the pleasure of other activities. Research published in 2006 by Kenny and Markou suggested that nicotine "resets the sensitivity of reward systems to a new increased level, thereby impriting an indelible 'memory' of its effects". In other words, smoke a cigarette and eat an apple, the apple seems to be just a little more satisfying than the apple without the cigarette.

So, smoking after sex..

technically that means you should smoke before sex, I think

Einhander

So, how long until we see nicotine poppers?