Help me decide on a digital camera

mrLeaf

I'm going to Salzburg this December so I've decided it's about time I finally get a camera. While I've never really delved into the world of photography it's certainly something I could develop an interest in. So I'm looking for a good quality camera in the price range of $250 - 350. Right now I'm looking at these three Canon Powershots:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/canon_a630.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/canon_a640.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/canon_a710is.asp

I'm leaning towards the a710, though my knowledge on cameras is very limited and I'd like all of your opinions.

supertall

Canon always gets lauded whenever a thread like this pops up, and my post is no exception. I've got a powershot A80, an older model, and it's great. My brother has a Canon and he loves it too.

The only thing I'd recommend is to consider the size of the camera before deciding. There's something to be said for being able to slip your camera into a pocket and not have to lug it around in a case. You might want to consider something like this http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/canon_sd600.asp, depending on what you want to use it for.

EggyToast

Yeah, canons are the way to go currently. The other thing to keep in mind is that more megapixels doesn't always equal a better image. In fact, high MP w/ a small sensor will create more noise, aka shitty pictures.

5-6mp should be just fine, both for your budget and your picture needs.

If you're getting started, the only other real thing to consider is size. Do you want something that's small enough to slip in your pocket, or something that's a bit more substantial but requires a little more effort to carry around? Both have advantages, and the smaller one, with its smaller sensor, will take worse pictures. Worse is relative, of course, as you can currently take no pictures at all. Unless you're planning on designing desktops or printing out 8x10 pictures, noise and quality isn't a huge concern.

BulimicGoat

The Fuji Finepix F30 is a really nice camera. It earned a highly recommened from dpreview:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilmf30/

Right now $275 at Circuit City.

I've used the Casio Exilim Z750 and Z850 and while I love them for their ridiculously small size and awesome features (manual zoom, a billion scene modes), I've had to return all of them (4 Z750s and 1 Z850. I'm the digital camera equivalent of a battered wife, I keep coming back to Casio to get hurt.) because of defects. I guess I've had some bad luck, but if you've got the time and a real good return policy, I'd go for that. Once I get home on break, I'm heading to Sam's Club to pick up a Z850. I think they're hovering around $315.

mrLeaf

I'd like to think a larger camera wouldn't bother me, but it could be a completely different story a month or so down the line. At this point my main concerns are quality and quantity, both of which Canon seems to excel at, so I'm most likely going to get one of those. Also, what does the ratio 1/2.5" next to sensor size denote? And why do images taken at high ISOs on digital camera turn out with so much noise? If this is normal, what exactly are the advantages of taking a photo at 800 ISO?

I should also note that I'm planning on getting into the digital arts program at my university, and some of the available courses dabble in photography. So getting a decent camera would probably be preferable over a small point and shoot.

Now I think the big question is: the A710 IS, A640 or the A630?


Edit:
I was actually looking at the Finepix before, but ruled it out because it wasn't Canon :P

And what's the consensus on Sony's cameras? I've heard good things about their Cybershot line (mind you this was a year or so ago) and their lenses are made by Zeiss, who make top quality products.

saltiness

I wouldn't get either of those if you're planning on using it for art purposes later. I'd recommend this http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/canon_s2is.asp or the newer version, the S3 IS if you want to spend a little more. I own an S1 IS that I used before I got a DSLR and I still appreciate the image quality of it even at its relatively low 3.2mp rating. The Sx IS cameras are all slightly bigger than regular P&S (point & shoot) cameras, about halfway between a regular P&S and a DSLR.

As for ISO, think of it the same way as film ISO. The higher the number, the brighter your picture will be but the more noise there will be as well. It's the same with film. It's sort of a last resort setting to use if you're taking pictures in low light. I wouldn't worry a whole lot about ISO especially with a P&S unless you're going to do a lot of low light work in which case I would recommend a DSLR.

edit: looks like the S3 is in pretty high demand as it's out of stock at a lot of places.

Deusfaux

S2 and S3IS are super zoom catergory


anythign with IS means image stabilization and its a big deal in low lighting and motion shots


personally, i couldnt see myself not getting a camera without it now that ive owned the SD700 IS. far fewer and less blurrier shots do to minute shake

mrLeaf

So the main strengths of the S3 are image stabilization and zoom? The camera sounds great, but I'm wondering if it might be pushing too bulky. While I do want my camera to take good quality photos that i might be using in my school work, I want something thats relatively practical to carry around. Maybe I'm just asking too much. If funds permitted I'd get a sexy DSLR and a point and shoot in a second. *sigh*

saltiness

It's main strengths are image stabilization and zoom as you said, as well as lens quality which makes for better images. I wouldn't call it impractical in size though, here's a couple pics next to a regular cell phone for comparison. (sorry for the ridiculously small DOF.)

mrLeaf

...you make it ever so tempting. Perhaps an S3 is in order. Any reason the S3 has a lower resolution than, say, the power shots? Is it just not as large as a factor? I've read that bigger is not necessarily better, but I'm not sure to what degree this is true.

edit: oh wow. I found someone on craigslist selling an s3 for 300 thats only been used twice and comes with a 1gb memory card....

Blake T

I have the older model of this.



Really long link

If you are looking for compact (and more importantly slim in comparison that other camera is a fatty and if it was in highschool it would be made fun of*) it's excellent it's thin and can easily fit in a pocket along with wallet and phone.

While I'm no photographer my opinion of the older model is that it takes good pictures in a very happy snap sense, that is, just rip it out take a photo and put it away. The only thing I dislike about the camera (though this has been an issue for all digital cameras I have used) is when you press the button it takes a second for it to register and take the shot.

*Don't tease fat cameras just because your friends do, it isn't cool.[/url]

EggyToast

If you've got money to burn, or are looking into an art program, then I would recommend the two camera approach. Get a small, slim camera that you can take with you now, for candid shots and something you won't be afraid to slip into your pocket and take out at a moment's notice. And then get a really nice camera, like a DSLR, for when you want to take nice pictures.

It's kind of like getting a slim, small laptop and a workhorse desktop. Sure, you could get a "desktop replacement" laptop that's too big to carry around but too underpowered for professional work at home... That's generally how I feel about the more full-featured rangefinder cameras that are big and bulky but fall far short of a DSLR for quality and are much larger than a new slim camera for candid shots.

Of course, if an S3 is in your price range and you don't want really high res shots, that could be a good jumping off point. Note that the S3 in the picture is 3.2mp. That's not a bad resolution, but I personally notice a difference between my girlfriend's A70 at 3.2mp and my own SD500 at 5mp, even though her sensor is larger and her camera can take some fancier lenses. Most of it is in things like leaves and grass and other elements that are the same color over a larger space.

As for noise, it depends on the sensor and the amount of light that hits the sensor. If there isn't enough light it will "get confused" and you get noise. That's why blacks tend to be noisy, as well as night shots, whereas shots with a flash are usually noise-free.

itylus

My short answer: a few years ago I spent quite a bit of money on what I thought was a good digital camera. Result: now I look at all the vastly superior cameras around, for much less money, and kick myself.

Unless there's a compelling reason not to, get something cheap and serviceable now. You're just taking holiday snaps, right? If you find you really, really love photography, you're going to want to buy another camera later anyway. But if you're just going to be bringing it out occasionally, something simple and cheap is much less likely to lead to buyer's remorse.

saltiness

EggyToast wrote:

If you've got money to burn, or are looking into an art program, then I would recommend the two camera approach. Get a small, slim camera that you can take with you now, for candid shots and something you won't be afraid to slip into your pocket and take out at a moment's notice. And then get a really nice camera, like a DSLR, for when you want to take nice pictures.

It's kind of like getting a slim, small laptop and a workhorse desktop. Sure, you could get a "desktop replacement" laptop that's too big to carry around but too underpowered for professional work at home... That's generally how I feel about the more full-featured rangefinder cameras that are big and bulky but fall far short of a DSLR for quality and are much larger than a new slim camera for candid shots.

Of course, if an S3 is in your price range and you don't want really high res shots, that could be a good jumping off point. Note that the S3 in the picture is 3.2mp. That's not a bad resolution, but I personally notice a difference between my girlfriend's A70 at 3.2mp and my own SD500 at 5mp, even though her sensor is larger and her camera can take some fancier lenses. Most of it is in things like leaves and grass and other elements that are the same color over a larger space.

As for noise, it depends on the sensor and the amount of light that hits the sensor. If there isn't enough light it will "get confused" and you get noise. That's why blacks tend to be noisy, as well as night shots, whereas shots with a flash are usually noise-free.

One piece of advice - Don't judge a camera by its megapixels. Unless you're making huge prints (bigger than 8 1/2 x 11") I'd say you don't necessarily need more than 5mp. The quality of the components is much more important. Take a look at the Nikon D50 for example. It's only 6mp but it will blow pretty much any P&S out of the water in terms of image quality.

After all that's been said though, itylus has a good point. If you don't mind buying something cheap now (~$150) for the snapshots you're taking then buying something more expensive later when you know what you need then I'd recommend doing that.

mrLeaf

Alrighty, well I think at this point I'm going to stick with a good general use camera and not worry about something for my art classes. We'll see how that works and go from there. So with that established, I'm pretty sold on the A710 barring any more comments you guys may have.

precisionk

I HIGHLY recommend the Canon Powershot SD600. Best camera I have ever boughten and only $250. Fantastic pictures, decent options and small to boot.

mrLeaf

Anyone have any recommendations for good rechargeable NimH batteries?

Invisible

If you're just looking for a fairly good camera to take family photos with and the like, I strongly recommend you check places like Target and Wal-Mart for clearance cameras. By doing that I was able to pick up a Canon A610 for $80 and an Olympus Stylus 600 for $120 (both unused, in the box).

If you're going to use it for an art class or photojournalism or anything remotely professional, you'll almost defintely have to have DSLR, which significantly ups the price. I'd wait until you actually sign up for those classes though, the professors usually have a list of features that the camera needs and it would suck to buy an expensive camera that doesn't have what you need.

Deusfaux

mrLeaf wrote:

Anyone have any recommendations for good rechargeable NimH batteries?

bigger the # longer they last

2300 should be a good baseline

mrLeaf

Invisible wrote:

If you're just looking for a fairly good camera to take family photos with and the like, I strongly recommend you check places like Target and Wal-Mart for clearance cameras. By doing that I was able to pick up a Canon A610 for $80 and an Olympus Stylus 600 for $120 (both unused, in the box).

If you're going to use it for an art class or photojournalism or anything remotely professional, you'll almost defintely have to have DSLR, which significantly ups the price. I'd wait until you actually sign up for those classes though, the professors usually have a list of features that the camera needs and it would suck to buy an expensive camera that doesn't have what you need.

yeah, I'm thinking about just getting a a630 right now and waiting on a fancy camera.

And thanks Deusfaux, I'll check out the Energizer 2300s.