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Wherein we discuss the wonder that is TITAN QUEST (NSF56k)

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Posts

  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2009
    s3rial one wrote: »
    Sweet, that's right where I am. Regardless, I figured out vent. sorry for getting in so late, had so other things to take care of around the apartment.

    No problem. Real life always gets in the way. ;)

    What class is it you're playing again? Earth/Spirit?

    I've got a Summoner about the same level... thinking of switching it out, because I'm just not finding the Spellbinder to be to my liking right now.

    your just upset my druid is better at tanking and dps'ing! :)

    Morkath on
  • Kate of LokysKate of Lokys Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    My Dream/Defense is level 21, I think - I would totally be down for some multiplayer tomorrow. I just got to Memphis myself.

    Kate of Lokys on
  • s3rial ones3rial one Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    We're going to have to resort to that difficulty mod, I think... the game was a bit too easy tonight.

    s3rial one on
  • s3rial ones3rial one Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Actually, I've found a nice difficulty mod. I'm going to tinker with it and see how it works. I may also tweak it to fix some existing crappy skills, if I can (e.g. Flame Surge).

    s3rial one on
  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    One thing I noticed about IT is that when I switched to it (I started out in the main game, since you need to run that at least once before you can load up IT) is that it changed the system for dropped items from needing to precisely click on each little item to pick them up to being able to hold down a key and have all of the item names pop up and be clickable, like any other sane game. Man was the game obnoxious when I first loaded it up.

    jothki on
  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2009
    Cool, because to be honest I was holding back. My staff is currently doing 240 dmg a hit, which is half my lightning bolts damage.

    And you saw how badly my LB was raping things. :P

    Decided I'm going to drop plague and pick up the thorn wall spell. Plague is nice, but shit dies too fast for it to spread.

    Morkath on
  • s3rial ones3rial one Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    znws3a.jpg

    Well, I've managed to double the range of Flame Surge.

    I've got a few other ideas in mind for skills:

    Oh, and about the notation... something listed as 16-25/65-85 (see Wildfire) means that at one point, it deals 16-25 damage, and at max points, it deals 65-85 damage.

    STORM
    • Freezing Blast: Damage resistance decreased from 85% to 60%

      Nobody takes this skill. The 85% damage resistance is just too much of a penalty. But sans that penalty, this skill would be way, way overpowered, given its ease of use, recharge time, and duration. So, by reducing the damage resistance it confers, it's still not going to be an all-the-time power, but it won't be a huge detriment to your team, either.

    EARTH
    • Wildfire: Damage increased from 16-25/65-85 to 32-50/130-170.
    • Ring of Flame: Damage increased from 3/38 to 6/76
    • Soften Metal: Damage value increased 100%, damage reduction debuff (to mobs) changed to total 1% per-point in total damage reduction to the player from all sources.
    • Conflagration: Radius increased from 3.0 to 3.5, burn damage increased from 11/48 over 3 seconds to 33/144 over 3 seconds.
    • Flame Surge: Range increased from 8.0 to 16.0.
    • Barrage: Burn damage increased.
    • Earth Enchantment: 5-8 burn damage over 1-3 seconds (really, WTF?) changed to +6/50% burn damage.

      These changes are just to bring some under-performing abilities into line with others. Ring of Flame and Soften Metal are woefully inferior to similar abilities in Storm and Spirit. This is because those abilities debuff resistances, stun, deal extra elemental damage, etc. So instead of adding a bunch of crap, it's easier (and I think thematically better) to just make these abilities do what they already do, but better.

      The Wildfire change is because this ability is one of those things that no one invests in. The damage is just trivial. Truth be told, even doubling its damage probably won't make it any good in the later stages of the game, but it'll at least make it worth a second look, and maybe some use beyond the first half of normal mode.

      Conflagration is improved because right now, the damage is laughable, even in normal mode.

      Flame Surge's range is increased to bring it more in line with Ice Shard, and not make using it a constant near-death experience. Because of the spread, it's more difficult to hit at longer range, but at least it's possible, now. Think of it as TQ's take on a shotgun. Now, Flame Surge will do slightly higher impact damage, and slightly higher burn damage over a shorter period of time, plus the new Earth Enchantment will boost its burn damage further. This is to compensate for Ice Shard being slightly more spammable, with a slightly longer range, having a slow effect, and being able to score multiple hits on a single target at long range.

    ROGUE
    • Open Wound: Bleed damage increased from 27/141 to 54/282.
    • Anatomy: +Bleed increased from 36/120% to 72/240%.
    • Toxin Distillation: +Poison damage increased from 12/144% to 18/216%, and +poison duration decreased from 10/76% to 5/38%.

      E.g. Toxin Distillation will go from +76% duration and +144% damage to +38% duration and +216% damage when maxed. So if you had an ability that did 100 damage over 10 seconds (base), that's 10 damage per second. The current Toxin Distillation would improve that to 24.4 damage per second for 17.6 seconds. You go from 100 damage to 429 damage; a 329%% increase in damage.

      With the new Toxin Distillation, you'll take that same ability and change it to 31.6 damage per second for 13.8 seconds. You go from 100 damage to 436 damage; a 336% increase in damage.

      The net effect is that your damage increase is the same, it just doesn't take as long to deliver the damage. This change is because, right now, poison does fine damage for the higher difficulty modes, but the problem is duration. It takes so bloody long to deliver that damage that it is in every conceivable way out-performed by other damage types (except bleeding).

    HUNTING
    • Art of the Hunt: +Bleed damage increased from 15/48% to 30/96%.
    • Eviscerate: Bleed damage increased from 33/150 to 66/300.
    • Gouge: Bleed damage increased from 48/198 to 72/297.
    • Barbed Netting: Bleed duration increased from 3 to 8 seconds, damage increased from 45/135 to 120/360.

      As I've pointed out before, bleeding damage is just disgustingly underpowered. Making it competitive with other damage types would basically require a complete itemization overhaul, but I'm hoping that by increasing the potency of the bleed attacks and the damage multipliers available, bleeding abilities might actually be useful beyond normal/early epic. The intent isn't to make it a primary damage type, but to make it a helpful form of additional damage.

    NATURE
    • Nymph: Damage increased from 9-21/54-75 to 18-42/108-150.
    • Overgrowth: Damage absorption increased by pet scalar. Stays at 78/170 in normal, goes to 312/680 in epic, and 780/1700 in legendary. If I can't get this working, I'll just change it to a flat damage reduction value for a given time.
    • Stinging nettle: It's terrible, but I honestly can't think of a way to make this skill not suck without completely overhauling it.

      The Nymph is an alright pet, currently, but the vast majority of players skip her because while she's good, she's not worth the point investment. She takes about the same amount of points as the Lich or Core Dweller, but isn't good at tanking or dealing damage. And her Overgrowth buff is awful. This is just a general improvement to make her worth the points.

    SPIRIT
    • Death Ward: Changing the per-point scaling. Right now it starts at 330 HP and with 8 bloody points goes all the way up to a pitiful 540 HP. A high-level melee character, for example, will have ~4k HP without adding anything to the HP attribute. I'm thinking it should start at 330 and get ~100/level after that, capping out at 1030 HP returned.
    • Circle of Power: Currently, this grants a flat +75 damage to undead in the circle for 12s in a 6m radius. It's fine in normal, but it doesn't scale worth a damn. I'm going to change it to cap at +38% damage to undead, for the same duration/cost/area. It'll start with +5% damage, and scale 3% per point.

    WARFARE
    • Battle Rage: This is currently a one-point wonder, and I hate those skills. Changing it so that instead of an 8% chance to activate with 1 point, it goes up to a 12% chance to activate with 12 points (1% per point).
    • Counter-Attack: Getting the Battle Rage treatment to make it more scalable. Instead of a flat 15% chance to activate, it will get 2% per point, topping out at 24% with 12 points.

    DEFENSE
    • Nothing!

    DREAM
    • Nothing!

    My intention isn't to reinvent the wheel, here. I just want to do two things: improve abilities that aren't worth using right now, so that they are worth using, and to take some of those one-point-wonder skills and make them more scalable.

    I WANT FEEDBACK

    s3rial one on
  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2009
    You have more experience with the game, so just bringing up a few skills I noticed:

    Storm:
    Energy shield. Only protects against cold and lightning, which aren't that common from what I remember?
    Wisp - pretty one shot wonder point wise as well, theres little point to putting any more in, as it doesn't get a huge damage increase, and only doubles in hit points.

    Earth:
    Molten rock. Does a measly 15 retaliation damage with the max 8 points in it, on a power that won't be used very often.

    Spirit:
    Life Drain. At max points this heals a whopping 250 while only dealing 100. Unless this is very spammable it seems both a shitty heal and dd. At same exact points, natures heal is healing for 1500. And lightning bolt is hitting a 1.5 meter area for 180-360. Bumping it to max at 200 would heal for 520, which would actually make for a decent heal for a caster. Again all depends on spammability of the power.

    Dream:
    Lawl dream.
    Distortion Field. Does this ability provide 39 damage absorption per attack for 15 seconds, or just 39 damage absorption once per 15 seconds when it activates?

    Everything looks good though, I approve. Also looking at the actual values for a lot of the skills makes my OCD kick in, I can't stand seeing all those abilities cap out at odd fractions. 5.8 seconds, 3.9meters. God ironlore, just make it 6s and 4m.

    Morkath on
  • s3rial ones3rial one Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    For Distortion Field, each enemy that hits you has a 5% chance of activating it, and once it's activated, it lasts for 15 seconds and reduces all incoming damage and retaliates with some damage.

    The values are low, but it's also type-agnostic, so I didn't think of it as particularly broken. I can certainly see it being a bit... underwhelming, though. I'll add it to the list, but I'm going to focus on the really egregiously broken (and easy-to-fix) stuff first.

    Life Drain's not very spammable, either. Not without a lot of -recharge. I'll have to check the cooldown time on it, but I seem to recall it being quite long; like 10 seconds or something.

    As for Molten Rock, it's one of those abilities like Stinging Nettle... it's so horrible and so poorly-designed that I don't see how I could possibly make it worthwhile without basically reinventing the whole power.

    I'll likely change Energy Shield to behave like Heat Shield, too, where it provides damage reduction to all damage types, but only absorbs cold/lightning.

    s3rial one on
  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2009
    In that case I would probably say disruption field is ok. Or at least enough that it doesn't need fixed right now.

    Molten rock might be ok if it just had 3x the damage or so. I guess you could run up and aggro everything do some damage until youve taken damage, then pop stone form, heal, and maybe finish off some of the mobs?
    Still wouldn't be worth taking to specifically do that, but then if you did want to use stone form it might be plausible slightly.
    They should have just made it an aoe dot while stoneform was active, with lava spurting from the ground.

    I'll probably actually make a brigand once you finish this, since bleed will be useful.

    Morkath on
  • s3rial ones3rial one Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Jesus. It's 7am. I've been up all night poking through the editor, and I'm still psyched about all these changes.

    I'm going to do something I haven't done in years: go to McDonalds, get some breakfast, and then come back and keep plugging away at this.

    I'm done with all of the Earth and Storm changes, although I'll revisit the Wisp later on.

    s3rial one on
  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2009
    s3rial one wrote: »
    Jesus. It's 7am. I've been up all night poking through the editor, and I'm still psyched about all these changes.

    I'm going to do something I haven't done in years: go to McDonalds, get some breakfast, and then come back and keep plugging away at this.

    I'm done with all of the Earth and Storm changes, although I'll revisit the Wisp later on.

    Welcome to my insomnia! Only I never actually get anything done!

    I did watch tropic thunder though, hilarious movie. I'm suprised it was written by ben stiller to be honest.

    Morkath on
  • Dignified PauperDignified Pauper Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    So wait, are you actually making a mod?

    Dignified Pauper on
    PSN: DignifiedPauper
    3DSFF: 5026-4429-6577
  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2009
    So wait, are you actually making a mod?

    Hes modifying a difficulty mod to fix some of the shitty skills. The game is way too easy on default.

    Morkath on
  • Dignified PauperDignified Pauper Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Yeah, but it's not so easy on Epic/Legendary. I agree, Normal is easy as shit.

    Dignified Pauper on
    PSN: DignifiedPauper
    3DSFF: 5026-4429-6577
  • Golden LegGolden Leg Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I'm up for a game or fifteen of this. I've got the gold edition, but never even got around to finishing the original campaign.

    Golden Leg on
  • Dignified PauperDignified Pauper Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    THEN JOIN US!

    Dignified Pauper on
    PSN: DignifiedPauper
    3DSFF: 5026-4429-6577
  • Golden LegGolden Leg Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Well, I can't at the moment, but I'm free from 5:00-11:00 MST.

    Golden Leg on
  • zhen_roguezhen_rogue Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Can someone explain what i'm doing wrong re: Ternion?

    I was following this guide to the letter:
    http://www.titanquest.net/forums/spirit/26587-guide-pwning-spirit.html
    which basically has you max arcane lore, ternion before anything else.
    The guide says once you have arcane lore maxed (with only one point in ternion, mind you) that you should be seeing some nice dps.

    Well, not exactly.

    I'm level 8 or 9, have arcane lore maxed, and have 3-4 points in ternion.
    I'm using a blue staff, called "the shepherds crook" which does some nice cold damage, and has a +% cold damage modifier to boot.

    What I see in-game, is that ternion still lags WAY behind my normal staff attack.
    -First of all, there's 3 projectiles, and the fan spread is REALLY wide - even when i'm toe-to-toe with a critter, 2 of the 3 missiles miss due to wide spread.
    -If there is a mob of mobs on me, and all projectiles hit, sure I see some splash damage but it's weak as shit. It takes forever to burn them down - I can burn them faster one at a time with standard staff attacks.
    Plus, killing them off one at a time means i'm taking less damage as well, since they're not all still beating on me until they all die at the same time from ternion.

    I'm wondering if the fanpatch has fucked something up, or simply downgraded ternion, or if there's something majorly wrong with what i'm doing (or expecting)?

    Thanks!

    zhen_rogue on
  • AtomBombAtomBomb Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I might be up for a game later tonight. I've got my Assassin to 23 or 24 I think. Just got to Act 3, but I missed a few quests in Act 2 so I don't mind going back. I'm mostly dual weilding, even though I've found a pretty nice spear and shield that are actually better than the 2 swords I have (I'd say my DPS goes down 30% or so). I can switch to the spear if we're struggling or keep the swords if it's going too easy.

    I also have a 5 Storm that I can break out, or start at 1.

    I'm in AZ, so later tonight is like 10 or 12 hours from this post.

    Can you type chat in TQ like Diablo? I know I've got a mic somewhere, but I haven't found it since I built my new PC (my other one was out of commision for more than a year).

    IT+Fanpatch, Steam version.

    AtomBomb on
    I just got a 3DS XL. Add me! 2879-0925-7162
  • s3rial ones3rial one Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    zhen_rogue wrote: »
    Can someone explain what i'm doing wrong re: Ternion?

    I was following this guide to the letter:
    http://www.titanquest.net/forums/spirit/26587-guide-pwning-spirit.html
    which basically has you max arcane lore, ternion before anything else.
    The guide says once you have arcane lore maxed (with only one point in ternion, mind you) that you should be seeing some nice dps.

    Well, not exactly.

    I'm level 8 or 9, have arcane lore maxed, and have 3-4 points in ternion.
    I'm using a blue staff, called "the shepherds crook" which does some nice cold damage, and has a +% cold damage modifier to boot.

    What I see in-game, is that ternion still lags WAY behind my normal staff attack.
    -First of all, there's 3 projectiles, and the fan spread is REALLY wide - even when i'm toe-to-toe with a critter, 2 of the 3 missiles miss due to wide spread.
    -If there is a mob of mobs on me, and all projectiles hit, sure I see some splash damage but it's weak as shit. It takes forever to burn them down - I can burn them faster one at a time with standard staff attacks.
    Plus, killing them off one at a time means i'm taking less damage as well, since they're not all still beating on me until they all die at the same time from ternion.

    I'm wondering if the fanpatch has fucked something up, or simply downgraded ternion, or if there's something majorly wrong with what i'm doing (or expecting)?

    Thanks!
    The fan patch values don't seem off.

    With one point in Ternion, you're doing -70% of your normal staff damage. Max it ASAP, and it goes down to -20%, which isn't so substantial.

    Personally, I think that guide's retarded.

    Here's my Ternion guide:

    1) Max Ternion

    2) Max Arcane Lore

    3) Pick up Earth, Storm, or Rogue

    4) Max Earth Enchantment if you want to go fire, and Heart of Frost for cold or Static Charge for Lightning. Use that kind of staff.

    5) If you went Rogue, max out Mandrake ASAP; you won't have the damage output of Earth or Storm, but you'll confuse and blind everything you shoot.

    Ternion used to be way, way, way overpowered pre-IT. They nerfed it hard. But I might see about switching it back a bit. I think the damage value nerfs were fine, but they changed the projectiles so that they're fixed; you used to be able to control the choke of Ternion to some degree.

    s3rial one on
  • zhen_roguezhen_rogue Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    s3rial one wrote: »
    zhen_rogue wrote: »
    Can someone explain what i'm doing wrong re: Ternion?

    I was following this guide to the letter:
    http://www.titanquest.net/forums/spirit/26587-guide-pwning-spirit.html
    which basically has you max arcane lore, ternion before anything else.
    The guide says once you have arcane lore maxed (with only one point in ternion, mind you) that you should be seeing some nice dps.

    Well, not exactly.

    I'm level 8 or 9, have arcane lore maxed, and have 3-4 points in ternion.
    I'm using a blue staff, called "the shepherds crook" which does some nice cold damage, and has a +% cold damage modifier to boot.

    What I see in-game, is that ternion still lags WAY behind my normal staff attack.
    -First of all, there's 3 projectiles, and the fan spread is REALLY wide - even when i'm toe-to-toe with a critter, 2 of the 3 missiles miss due to wide spread.
    -If there is a mob of mobs on me, and all projectiles hit, sure I see some splash damage but it's weak as shit. It takes forever to burn them down - I can burn them faster one at a time with standard staff attacks.
    Plus, killing them off one at a time means i'm taking less damage as well, since they're not all still beating on me until they all die at the same time from ternion.

    I'm wondering if the fanpatch has fucked something up, or simply downgraded ternion, or if there's something majorly wrong with what i'm doing (or expecting)?

    Thanks!
    The fan patch values don't seem off.

    With one point in Ternion, you're doing -70% of your normal staff damage. Max it ASAP, and it goes down to -20%, which isn't so substantial.

    Personally, I think that guide's retarded.

    Here's my Ternion guide:

    1) Max Ternion

    2) Max Arcane Lore

    3) Pick up Earth, Storm, or Rogue

    4) Max Earth Enchantment if you want to go fire, and Heart of Frost for cold or Static Charge for Lightning. Use that kind of staff.

    5) If you went Rogue, max out Mandrake ASAP; you won't have the damage output of Earth or Storm, but you'll confuse and blind everything you shoot.

    Ternion used to be way, way, way overpowered pre-IT. They nerfed it hard. But I might see about switching it back a bit. I think the damage value nerfs were fine, but they changed the projectiles so that they're fixed; you used to be able to control the choke of Ternion to some degree.

    I was aiming for a Spirit/Dream build, with maxed Ternion (+Ternion related skills), maxed Lich (+Lich related skills), and Maxed Nightmare (+Nightmare related skills).
    Here's a Titan Calc for your review/comment:
    http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Diviner&master1=2&master2=9&sa=0&m1=32-6-0-12-8-0-0-0-0-16-0-6-8-0-12-0-12-0-1-1-16-0&m2=32-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-16-0-0-0-0-1-1-0-0-0-0-8-0-0
    That's the core build, with a few points in one-point wonders.

    Please let me know if there's a better way to spend the points, or if i'm overlooking something major.
    Also, since i'm aiming for a Ternion/Pet build, is there better solutions for this type of ranged magic attack + pet setup?
    Maybe earth is better than dream/nightmare with the lich?
    Maybe earth/storm has a better direct-damage spam skill for me instead of ternion?

    I'm open to all suggestions!

    zhen_rogue on
  • s3rial ones3rial one Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    zhen_rogue wrote: »
    I was aiming for a Spirit/Dream build, with maxed Ternion (+Ternion related skills), maxed Lich (+Lich related skills), and Maxed Nightmare (+Nightmare related skills).
    Here's a Titan Calc for your review/comment:
    http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Diviner&master1=2&master2=9&sa=0&m1=32-6-0-12-8-0-0-0-0-16-0-6-8-0-12-0-12-0-1-1-16-0&m2=32-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-16-0-0-0-0-1-1-0-0-0-0-8-0-0
    That's the core build, with a few points in one-point wonders.

    Please let me know if there's a better way to spend the points, or if i'm overlooking something major.
    Also, since i'm aiming for a Ternion/Pet build, is there better solutions for this type of ranged magic attack + pet setup?
    Maybe earth is better than dream/nightmare with the lich?
    Maybe earth/storm has a better direct-damage spam skill for me instead of ternion?

    I'm open to all suggestions!

    Unfortunately, your damage will be awful. The reason I suggest Fire and Storm is so you can get access to Earth Enchantment/Static Charge/Heart of Frost, because those skills boost their respective elemental damage by 100%. That applies to staff damage.

    So, say you have some theoretical staff that does 100 per shot. With your build, you'll do 100 damage * 80% (because it's reduced by Ternion) = 80 damage per shot.

    The other guy is going to do 100 damage + 100 from his damage buff = 200 damage * 80% = 160 damage per shot. Then add in the AoE damage from Arcane Lore's splash, and you can see why this is the way to go.

    I think the claims in his guide are absolute bullshit; that build has no oomph behind it at all.

    Here is a sample end-game build.

    s3rial one on
  • zhen_roguezhen_rogue Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    s3rial one wrote: »
    zhen_rogue wrote: »
    I was aiming for a Spirit/Dream build, with maxed Ternion (+Ternion related skills), maxed Lich (+Lich related skills), and Maxed Nightmare (+Nightmare related skills).
    Here's a Titan Calc for your review/comment:
    http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Diviner&master1=2&master2=9&sa=0&m1=32-6-0-12-8-0-0-0-0-16-0-6-8-0-12-0-12-0-1-1-16-0&m2=32-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-16-0-0-0-0-1-1-0-0-0-0-8-0-0
    That's the core build, with a few points in one-point wonders.

    Please let me know if there's a better way to spend the points, or if i'm overlooking something major.
    Also, since i'm aiming for a Ternion/Pet build, is there better solutions for this type of ranged magic attack + pet setup?
    Maybe earth is better than dream/nightmare with the lich?
    Maybe earth/storm has a better direct-damage spam skill for me instead of ternion?

    I'm open to all suggestions!

    Unfortunately, your damage will be awful. The reason I suggest Fire and Storm is so you can get access to Earth Enchantment/Static Charge/Heart of Frost, because those skills boost their respective elemental damage by 100%. That applies to staff damage.

    So, say you have some theoretical staff that does 100 per shot. With your build, you'll do 100 damage * 80% (because it's reduced by Ternion) = 80 damage per shot.

    The other guy is going to do 100 damage + 100 from his damage buff = 200 damage * 80% = 160 damage per shot. Then add in the AoE damage from Arcane Lore's splash, and you can see why this is the way to go.

    I think the claims in his guide are absolute bullshit; that build has no oomph behind it at all.

    Here is a sample end-game build.

    I love theorycraft!
    Thanks for the clarifications and revised link.
    Here's some additional questions:

    1. Since Volcanic Orb is eating a lot of skills - wouldn't that be my main attack in lieu of ternion+earth enchant?
    If so, could the points be taken out of ternion and used elsewhere?
    As it is, it looks like I have two ranged DD spells maxed and will only be using one at a time...

    2a. If Ternion is expendable, then is Lich by itself worth keeping Spirit?
    Can Dream, Storm, or other specialization enhance the CoreDweller/Volcanic Orb build moreso than the Lich alone?

    2b. If Ternion is > Volcanic Orb, can I dump the VOrb and spend more points in skills that augment the up-close-and-personal playstyle of Ternion attacks? Ring of Fire and Deathchill Aura both seem like nice PBAoE debuffs/damage to have running...

    zhen_rogue on
  • Dignified PauperDignified Pauper Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I'm doing a Lich/Nightmare Spirit/Dream build at the moment, and I'm pretty much kicking ass. I didn't bother with Ternion, simply because I don't care enough about multi-hit projectiles. Besides, I'm doing roughly 230DPS with regular attacks, my Lich and Nightmare are doing well, and then I pumped a few more into Outsider and am now working on Distort Reality.

    I also put points into the Lucid Dream Tree.

    This is my end goal, without the added skills I get from quests.

    Dignified Pauper on
    PSN: DignifiedPauper
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  • s3rial ones3rial one Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    zhen_rogue wrote: »
    s3rial one wrote: »
    zhen_rogue wrote: »
    I was aiming for a Spirit/Dream build, with maxed Ternion (+Ternion related skills), maxed Lich (+Lich related skills), and Maxed Nightmare (+Nightmare related skills).
    Here's a Titan Calc for your review/comment:
    http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Diviner&master1=2&master2=9&sa=0&m1=32-6-0-12-8-0-0-0-0-16-0-6-8-0-12-0-12-0-1-1-16-0&m2=32-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-16-0-0-0-0-1-1-0-0-0-0-8-0-0
    That's the core build, with a few points in one-point wonders.

    Please let me know if there's a better way to spend the points, or if i'm overlooking something major.
    Also, since i'm aiming for a Ternion/Pet build, is there better solutions for this type of ranged magic attack + pet setup?
    Maybe earth is better than dream/nightmare with the lich?
    Maybe earth/storm has a better direct-damage spam skill for me instead of ternion?

    I'm open to all suggestions!

    Unfortunately, your damage will be awful. The reason I suggest Fire and Storm is so you can get access to Earth Enchantment/Static Charge/Heart of Frost, because those skills boost their respective elemental damage by 100%. That applies to staff damage.

    So, say you have some theoretical staff that does 100 per shot. With your build, you'll do 100 damage * 80% (because it's reduced by Ternion) = 80 damage per shot.

    The other guy is going to do 100 damage + 100 from his damage buff = 200 damage * 80% = 160 damage per shot. Then add in the AoE damage from Arcane Lore's splash, and you can see why this is the way to go.

    I think the claims in his guide are absolute bullshit; that build has no oomph behind it at all.

    Here is a sample end-game build.

    I love theorycraft!
    Thanks for the clarifications and revised link.
    Here's some additional questions:

    1. Since Volcanic Orb is eating a lot of skills - wouldn't that be my main attack in lieu of ternion+earth enchant?
    If so, could the points be taken out of ternion and used elsewhere?
    As it is, it looks like I have two ranged DD spells maxed and will only be using one at a time...

    2a. If Ternion is expendable, then is Lich by itself worth using Spirit at all?
    Can Dream, Storm, or other skill enhance the CoreDweller/Volcanic Orb build moreso than the Lich alone?

    2b. If Ternion is > Volcanic Orb, can I dump the VOrb and spend more points in skills that augment the up-close-and-personal playstyle of Ternion attacks? Ring of Fire and Deathchill Aura both seem like nice PBAoE debuffs/damage to have running...

    The short of it is that if you want to play up close with a staff user, you're going to die. A lot.

    Volcanic Orb has several advantages over Ternion; has a longer range, larger AoE, and does more damage per activation. Same deal with Eruption. The idea is to fill in the gaps with Ternion. I mean, why only use one? Unless you're some obnoxious -recharge build that no one wants to play with, Volcanic Orb and Eruption are very slow attacks that don't make for a good primary attack on their own. Ternion is spammable.

    The Lich is a good pet. A very good pet. But it's not worth it by itself. After normal, its damage starts lagging behind, and it becomes something of a distraction, rather than a killer.

    Seriously, normal mode is so easy that you could probably beat it naked and with a copper knife. Give whatever you want to a go, and if you don't like it, respec later. Earth/Spirit gives you a lot of good options.

    s3rial one on
  • zhen_roguezhen_rogue Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    s3rial one wrote: »
    zhen_rogue wrote: »
    s3rial one wrote: »
    zhen_rogue wrote: »
    I was aiming for a Spirit/Dream build, with maxed Ternion (+Ternion related skills), maxed Lich (+Lich related skills), and Maxed Nightmare (+Nightmare related skills).
    Here's a Titan Calc for your review/comment:
    http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Diviner&master1=2&master2=9&sa=0&m1=32-6-0-12-8-0-0-0-0-16-0-6-8-0-12-0-12-0-1-1-16-0&m2=32-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-16-0-0-0-0-1-1-0-0-0-0-8-0-0
    That's the core build, with a few points in one-point wonders.

    Please let me know if there's a better way to spend the points, or if i'm overlooking something major.
    Also, since i'm aiming for a Ternion/Pet build, is there better solutions for this type of ranged magic attack + pet setup?
    Maybe earth is better than dream/nightmare with the lich?
    Maybe earth/storm has a better direct-damage spam skill for me instead of ternion?

    I'm open to all suggestions!

    Unfortunately, your damage will be awful. The reason I suggest Fire and Storm is so you can get access to Earth Enchantment/Static Charge/Heart of Frost, because those skills boost their respective elemental damage by 100%. That applies to staff damage.

    So, say you have some theoretical staff that does 100 per shot. With your build, you'll do 100 damage * 80% (because it's reduced by Ternion) = 80 damage per shot.

    The other guy is going to do 100 damage + 100 from his damage buff = 200 damage * 80% = 160 damage per shot. Then add in the AoE damage from Arcane Lore's splash, and you can see why this is the way to go.

    I think the claims in his guide are absolute bullshit; that build has no oomph behind it at all.

    Here is a sample end-game build.

    I love theorycraft!
    Thanks for the clarifications and revised link.
    Here's some additional questions:

    1. Since Volcanic Orb is eating a lot of skills - wouldn't that be my main attack in lieu of ternion+earth enchant?
    If so, could the points be taken out of ternion and used elsewhere?
    As it is, it looks like I have two ranged DD spells maxed and will only be using one at a time...

    2a. If Ternion is expendable, then is Lich by itself worth using Spirit at all?
    Can Dream, Storm, or other skill enhance the CoreDweller/Volcanic Orb build moreso than the Lich alone?

    2b. If Ternion is > Volcanic Orb, can I dump the VOrb and spend more points in skills that augment the up-close-and-personal playstyle of Ternion attacks? Ring of Fire and Deathchill Aura both seem like nice PBAoE debuffs/damage to have running...

    The short of it is that if you want to play up close with a staff user, you're going to die. A lot.

    Volcanic Orb has several advantages over Ternion; has a longer range, larger AoE, and does more damage per activation. Same deal with Eruption. The idea is to fill in the gaps with Ternion. I mean, why only use one? Unless you're some obnoxious -recharge build that no one wants to play with, Volcanic Orb and Eruption are very slow attacks that don't make for a good primary attack on their own. Ternion is spammable.

    The Lich is a good pet. A very good pet. But it's not worth it by itself. After normal, its damage starts lagging behind, and it becomes something of a distraction, rather than a killer.

    Seriously, normal mode is so easy that you could probably beat it naked and with a copper knife. Give whatever you want to a go, and if you don't like it, respec later. Earth/Spirit gives you a lot of good options.

    Well, it sounds like Earth is a much better compliment to the Spirit tree than Dream is, based on how i'm playing at the moment anyway.
    I've already chosen Spirit/Dream however - when I reach the first respec NPC (Delphi I think?) can I respec specializations as well as skills? Or do I need to make a new character if I want to drop Dream for Earth?

    zhen_rogue on
  • s3rial ones3rial one Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    zhen_rogue wrote: »
    Well, it sounds like Earth is a much better compliment to the Spirit tree than Dream is, based on how i'm playing at the moment anyway.
    I've already chosen Spirit/Dream however - when I reach the first respec NPC (Delphi I think?) can I respec specializations as well as skills? Or do I need to make a new character if I want to drop Dream for Earth?

    You can't change your masteries via respec.

    Dream's still very potent with Spirit. I wouldn't bother with Ternion attack with that build, but Dream has plenty of other goodies to work on.

    s3rial one on
  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Hey guys, I just read at evil avatar that the Iron Lore guys are making a new company and buying the TQ IP back.

    Awesome, right?

    Stormwatcher on
    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
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  • zhen_roguezhen_rogue Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Last questions then:

    1. Are lightning damage and electrical burn damage treated as separate damage types?
    Or do they both fall under the "lightning" resist category?
    For example - if I shot a mob with say, Chain Lightning... would Lucid Dream's +15% damage help out?

    2. Eye of Storm (wisp ability) description says it increases cold/lightning damage, but the skill itself simply says +x% Elemental Damage.
    Does it help fire as well? Or not?

    zhen_rogue on
  • MadpandaMadpanda suburbs west of chicagoRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I had to stop playing this once I moved from CRT->LCD monitor. If i am standing still the game looks amazing, however as soon as I move everything gets kinda jagged/blurry until I stop moving again, gave me headaches. I have a 2ms response time TN panel so I am not sure what the issue is.

    Also I am surprised that Harbinger (warfare/dream) wasn't mentioned on the easy classes list.

    The build below is what I based mine on and I was around level 72 when I stopped playing it. Keep in mind this was before fan patches so the build may be improved, not sure if it fixed issues like Triumph not working, or nerfed abilities like hamstring (that -28 to defensive ability is a %)

    http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Harbinger&master1=3&master2=9&sa=0&m1=32-6-0-8-6-8-6-1-6-0-10-0-6-6-0-0-0-0-6-6-0&m2=32-0-0-0-0-8-12-6-0-0-8-0-12-0-8-0-0-0-0-0-0-0

    Also for those of you just starting it, yes Act IV is a great difficulty leap (damn you machae archers), but its worth it.

    Madpanda on
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  • s3rial ones3rial one Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Hey guys, I just read at evil avatar that the Iron Lore guys are making a new company and buying the TQ IP back.

    Awesome, right?

    s3rial one on
  • s3rial ones3rial one Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Woohoo!

    I finally understand their bizarre layout for monster attribute scalars. They're laid out in an array of values that are indexed 1-18; I thought that was odd. Obviously it's not a level range... I didn't know what it was supposed to represent.

    Turns out, it's a representation of difficulty and number of players in the game. So index 1 is normal mode with one player. index 6 is normal mode with 6 players. Index 7 is epic mode with one player, etc.

    I can make my own difficulty mod, now, instead of relying on those absurd ones I've found at the TQ forums. This makes it far easier to build the changes into the fan patch, too.

    s3rial one on
  • s3rial ones3rial one Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    So is anyone going to be available for a short test this afternoon? I'll be done tinkering soon; I've given up on getting the Nymph's Overgrowth to work properly, but Nature's Wrath is pretty nice, now. She fires it frequently and it literally cuts a swath through packs of trash mobs. I just need to make those last few changes to Spirit and Warfare.

    As for difficulty, all I've done so far is increased mob HP. Mobs will have a 50% bonus to HP in a single player normal game right now (used to be no bonus), and it scales 50% per-player (it used to scale 30%). So in a two-player game, now, mobs will have +100% HP instead of +50%.

    It's only the first of a series of changes I plan to make, but I want to test it incrementally.

    So, anyone up for helping me test this out? It's simple, really. All you have to do is download the database file (~25MB), back up your existing database file, and replace it with this one.

    s3rial one on
  • Dignified PauperDignified Pauper Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Isn't Epic and Legendary rather difficult? Why are we increasing the difficulty?

    Dignified Pauper on
    PSN: DignifiedPauper
    3DSFF: 5026-4429-6577
  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2009
    yeah i'll be available serial. Do you use steam? If so PM me your name and ill add you so you can ping me when your ready.

    Morkath on
  • s3rial ones3rial one Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I haven't. At least not so far. I can always do that, but right now, I've only adjusted normal.

    Epic and Legendary are rather difficult because of things like mobs gaining new resistances, a huge bonus of offensive and defensive ability, and a rather large penalty to your own resistances.

    All I've done is tweak the HP scaling so that it takes more than a stiff breeze to kill mobs in normal mode.

    s3rial one on
  • Dignified PauperDignified Pauper Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    But won't that make their HP go up in Legendary and Epic? Further, with six people, I find mobs take a short while to kill.

    Dignified Pauper on
    PSN: DignifiedPauper
    3DSFF: 5026-4429-6577
  • s3rial ones3rial one Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Nope. You can adjust the HP scalar based on the number of players in a given difficulty.

    Also, like I said, this isn't some major, serious ordeal to use. It's a single file. If it doesn't work out, we delete it, replace it with the old one, and everything's the same as it is now.

    s3rial one on
  • Dignified PauperDignified Pauper Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    alrighty, i'm down then, i guess. I'm just lazy

    Dignified Pauper on
    PSN: DignifiedPauper
    3DSFF: 5026-4429-6577
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