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Casinos & Gambling (or paying homage to 'Gamblor')

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Posts

  • musanmanmusanman Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I am budgeting about 750-1000 a day for poker money for the trip, assuming no winning.

    I would honestly rather play people I can beat then people I want to meet.

    oh, well if you have that much money don't play for a day, fly me out, and I'll pay for your trip at the bellagio :lol:

    Just play 2-5 at the bellagio, buy in for like $350 a few times and maybe try the Wynn (I haven't played the Wynn but I've done some railbirding before hitting up the Ferrari dealership).

    musanman on
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  • Dunadan019Dunadan019 Registered User regular
    edited January 2009

    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    as far as poker goes, i try to stay away from the single tables but i play alot of tournaments. at the single tables most of your success depends on how old the table is and the stacks of everyone else. if you can get in on a new table, you are golden. but if some guy has been winning there for hours, he can have 10 times what you bring to the table just sitting there and your play will be limited.

    How do you figure? Older tables have more money on the table, which means there is more money to win. Sure, variance is higher, but being outchipped isn't the disadvantage it is in tournament play because the blinds are static and there is no penalty for busting other than the money you lost on that hand. And playing short stacked with a bunch of loose large stacks playing for implied odds can get you into great situations where they get pot committed with crap and get no implied odds since you're all in preflop or on the flop.

    its really a preference thing and it depends on the casino. where i play, those large stacks will for the most part bully and i'd rather not deal with that if im just looking to sit and play cards for 2 hours.
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    id say my success in tournament play is pretty good. 100 dollar buy in, survive 100 other people, win 300-2500 bucks depending on where you go out. of course you can always try to get the final table to agree to a chop (all 10 at my last tournament agreed to it, which is rare) where you all win about 700 bucks. im probably up a couple grand in my lifetime from tournament play. its a fun way to spend a night.

    Tournaments are a ton of fun, but they are super high variance. All the money is generally in the top 3 spots, so just making the money won't cover very many buy-ins. As such, I'm really not a fan of chops unless you're clearly getting an edge - a lot of people are really bad at shorthanded no-limit play, and some get really tentative trying to squeeze out one more place in the standings. Unless you're against superior competition or they're giving you a deal really favorable to your stack size, then I think you're giving up money taking the chop.

    well for instance in the last one i was talking about, 700 bucks meant that to get more money you would have to finish 3rd or better. and in the small tournaments im talking about, the blinds are usually astronomical by the time the final table starts where you are trying to survive with 5xBB as a chip count. since no one can garuntee in that setting that they will place at least 3rd, its better to chop. it does depend on the tournament payout.

    Dunadan019 on
  • PlushyCthulhuPlushyCthulhu Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    Tournaments are a ton of fun, but they are super high variance. All the money is generally in the top 3 spots, so just making the money won't cover very many buy-ins. As such, I'm really not a fan of chops unless you're clearly getting an edge - a lot of people are really bad at shorthanded no-limit play, and some get really tentative trying to squeeze out one more place in the standings. Unless you're against superior competition or they're giving you a deal really favorable to your stack size, then I think you're giving up money taking the chop.

    well for instance in the last one i was talking about, 700 bucks meant that to get more money you would have to finish 3rd or better. and in the small tournaments im talking about, the blinds are usually astronomical by the time the final table starts where you are trying to survive with 5xBB as a chip count. since no one can garuntee in that setting that they will place at least 3rd, its better to chop. it does depend on the tournament payout.

    That sentence is wrong though, or at least the reasoning behind it. Of course there are no guarantees in poker, otherwise the game wouldn't be as interesting or popular. The question isn't whether you're sure to get more than the $700 you would in a chop, it is whether your expected value is higher or lower than $700 if you play out the rest. If it's lower, then you take the chop and hope the other guys are afraid of variance. If it's higher, then you don't chop and let chips fall where they may. With your case and retarded blinds it's definitely possible that your EV was better taking the chop, especially if you were in the 5xBB range, but it isn't automatically true just because the structure sucks. The most common scenario is when one or two guys are really, really short - wait til they bust or get back to average before considering including them in a deal.

    PlushyCthulhu on
    Steam/LoL: plushycthulhu
  • Dunadan019Dunadan019 Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    yeah i was talking about a speicific instance, there have been times where waiting is alright but unless im real secure (and in most of the tournaments i play, that usually doesnt happen) im fine with a chop.

    the final table in those cases are just too much based on cards.

    Dunadan019 on
  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Place at the tableRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    musanman wrote: »
    I am budgeting about 750-1000 a day for poker money for the trip, assuming no winning.

    I would honestly rather play people I can beat then people I want to meet.

    oh, well if you have that much money don't play for a day, fly me out, and I'll pay for your trip at the bellagio :lol:

    Just play 2-5 at the bellagio, buy in for like $350 a few times and maybe try the Wynn (I haven't played the Wynn but I've done some railbirding before hitting up the Ferrari dealership).

    It's a lot for me to spend on poker - 900 bucks was what I cleared last year playing about 170 hours of mostly 1-2 holdem or 2-5 PLO - but I'm getting a good deal on the trip and I've haven't been on any sort of "vacation" longer than a weekend for probably 10 years. Also, I'm not anticipating getting totally skined, honestly. It's not like I'm going to Reno.

    JohnnyCache on
  • NintoNinto Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Dunadan019 wrote: »

    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    as far as poker goes, i try to stay away from the single tables but i play alot of tournaments. at the single tables most of your success depends on how old the table is and the stacks of everyone else. if you can get in on a new table, you are golden. but if some guy has been winning there for hours, he can have 10 times what you bring to the table just sitting there and your play will be limited.

    How do you figure? Older tables have more money on the table, which means there is more money to win. Sure, variance is higher, but being outchipped isn't the disadvantage it is in tournament play because the blinds are static and there is no penalty for busting other than the money you lost on that hand. And playing short stacked with a bunch of loose large stacks playing for implied odds can get you into great situations where they get pot committed with crap and get no implied odds since you're all in preflop or on the flop.

    its really a preference thing and it depends on the casino. where i play, those large stacks will for the most part bully and i'd rather not deal with that if im just looking to sit and play cards for 2 hours.

    I think you missed his point here - when you're playing with a reasonable sized stack (say, a low normal buyin) against larger stacks, you don't have to worry so much about being bullied and having your blind stolen. Just play super tight super aggressive pre-flop with your AA, KK hands, with the occassional blind limp or multiway limp with suited connectors. When you've got multiple people with big stacks, you almost always have great implied odds on pushing.

    Ninto on
  • PlutoniumPlutonium Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I've had some luck playing 3-6 limit hold'em. I can usually come out ahead just by folding anything that's lower than 10/10 or Ace/Face Card.

    As long as the table is sensible and not absolutely batshit crazy, you can have fun for a long time and come out ahead by just reading people's betting habits and facing down the guys who like to play hands more often than you.

    The danger in limit poker is the batshit groups of fuckers who simply don't care, have money to blow, and are willing to buy into every hand no matter their cards. If you see two or more of these guys at the table, just stand up and leave. They will suck out against you every time with ridiculously bad flushes, straits, and full houses.

    Plutonium on
  • NintoNinto Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Yeah if you want to play against those kinds of players, you need a good grasp of odds, and you need to not let them intimidate you and hold your ground rather than getting up and walking. Loose aggressive play is easy to beat - just play just as aggressive but have better hand selection than they do, and eventually the numbers will swing your way.

    That having been said...getting whipsawed by players who are implicitly colluding can be a real danger when you're dealing with multiple aggressive players who clearly play together often.

    Ninto on
  • MrODoyleMrODoyle Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I heart craps.

    One thing that can be beneficial is to qualify the shooter. See if he's making his points or if he's rolling a lot craps (2, 3, and 12) or sevening-out.

    My strategy is usually this: Bet the minimum on the pass when the point is Off. For this example, let's say the minimum is $10. If the point is established as a 6 or an 8, take full odds. It's usually 5x, so that would be $50. Then reduce your odds for each outward point respectively. (I.e. $25 for a 5 or a 9, $10 for a 4 or a 10) Then bet the come and play it the same way. Every once in a while I'll throw out a two-way Yo or Hard way just to keep the dealers happy.

    This seems to be the least risky, most fun way for me without burning a lot of money really fast.

    MrODoyle on
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  • mojojoeomojojoeo A block off the park, living the dream.Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    How does a casino make money off having a poker table open?

    Do you pay to even sit?

    mojojoeo on
    Chief Wiggum: "Ladies, please. All our founding fathers, astronauts, and World Series heroes have been either drunk or on cocaine."
  • PlutoniumPlutonium Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    mojojoeo wrote: »
    How does a casino make money off having a poker table open?

    Do you pay to even sit?

    I think that in every hand that passes a certain dollar amount and gets to the flop, they take a small percentage of the pot up to an amount. Usually it's like one big blind.

    Plutonium on
  • mojojoeomojojoeo A block off the park, living the dream.Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    That works... you still are loosing to other people and not the house.

    mojojoeo on
    Chief Wiggum: "Ladies, please. All our founding fathers, astronauts, and World Series heroes have been either drunk or on cocaine."
  • geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    mojojoeo wrote: »
    That works... you still are loosing to other people and not the house.

    its losing, not loosing. But yes, that's how it works.

    geckahn on
  • mojojoeomojojoeo A block off the park, living the dream.Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    geckahn wrote: »
    mojojoeo wrote: »
    That works... you still are loosing to other people and not the house.

    its losing, not loosing. But yes, that's how it works.

    <= spelling wizzaard.

    mojojoeo on
    Chief Wiggum: "Ladies, please. All our founding fathers, astronauts, and World Series heroes have been either drunk or on cocaine."
  • PlushyCthulhuPlushyCthulhu Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    mojojoeo wrote: »
    How does a casino make money off having a poker table open?

    Do you pay to even sit?

    Most low limit games are paid for by a rake. Generally they will take 5% or 10% of the pot (up a certain amount, usually $3 or $4 for low limit). Usually there is no rake taken if there is no flop. Some places also take a jackpot drop (which is returned to the players via bad beat jackpots and other contests, minus an "administrative" fee of course) and the rules for when they take that money varies wildly.

    Higher limit games are usually paid for by a time charge. Every half hour they will collect a set amount from the players (or sometimes take a lump sum out of the next "Time pot"). If you're the new guy you generally don't have to pay anything (other than probably posting a blind bet on your first hand) until the next half hour.

    Rake games benefit tight players (since you play less pots, you win less pots and pay less rake) while time charges independent of play style.

    PlushyCthulhu on
    Steam/LoL: plushycthulhu
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