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Toxins All Around Us
Hexmage-PA
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I had heard the arguments for eating organic before: pesticides sprayed on crops concentrate in livestock and may cause harm to humans. I've recently begun buying organic foods as often as possible for this reason and others.
However, recently I've heard claims that many other commonly-used products could contain dangerous chemicals and that people should buy organic alternatives. Here are just a few of the examples I've heard: deodorant causes your body to build-up unhealthy amounts of aluminum (aluminum is one of the main ingredients in most deodorant), plastics contain harmful phtalates that can enter the body through extended contact or consuming products in plastic containers, clothes made from cotton and other crops sprayed with pesticides also contain pesticides that enter the body through skin contact, and the fluoride added into city water could be adverse to your health.
How many of these and similar claims are valid? Of the ones that are, what are the effects of their common use by the populace?
However, recently I've heard claims that many other commonly-used products could contain dangerous chemicals and that people should buy organic alternatives. Here are just a few of the examples I've heard: deodorant causes your body to build-up unhealthy amounts of aluminum (aluminum is one of the main ingredients in most deodorant), plastics contain harmful phtalates that can enter the body through extended contact or consuming products in plastic containers, clothes made from cotton and other crops sprayed with pesticides also contain pesticides that enter the body through skin contact, and the fluoride added into city water could be adverse to your health.
How many of these and similar claims are valid? Of the ones that are, what are the effects of their common use by the populace?
Hexmage-PA on
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You really have to evaluate the claims one by one to be sure.
Aluminum is present in most anti-perspirants but not necessarily in non-antiperspirant deodorants. Most of the purported links between aluminum and cancer or Alzheimers are weak. I use a non-antiperspirant deodorant anyway, mostly because I don't think that blocking the sweat glands of my armpits is really great for my skin, but I have no particular evidence to that effect.
Phalates and xenoestrogens in plastic are a pretty interesting issue and I'm personally concerned about it, but we're still at the early stages of research on it. I doubt that an adult consumes enough plastic byproducts from bottled water to make it an issue, but it might be an issue for children or water table contamination from landfills containing plastics might be a problem.
I don't see how clothes could contain pesticides that survive a single thorough washing.
The wide health risks that hippies associate with fluoride are pretty much mythical.
And I know you didn't mention this, but vaccines don't cause autism. That particular myth makes me stabby because it kills people.
I am in general concerned about additives, preservatives, and other chemicals in food and personal products. I personally have very sensitive skin and it's very easy for me to break out in itchy dermatitis - I've nailed down some triggers but not all of them. I dated somebody who couldn't have aspartame or MSG due to them being migraine triggers.
Chemicals that are used in food or cosmetic and hygiene products do need to be tested first. However, the tests are less thorough than those for pharmaceuticals, and while we do a good job of making sure that these chemicals are safe for the general population, I do believe that there are some segments of the population who are sensitive or allergic to one chemical or another. I don't think that aspartame is toxic to everybody, for instance, but if somebody believes that aspartame causes their joint pain then I'm not going to tell them they're wrong.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
This is where I would link to Cradle to Cradle, but I'm gonna wait on that.
This is partially why I try not to be paranoid about it.
I realize that I'm exposed to things all the time, both manmade and natural (including sunlight :P ) that cause cellular or genetic damage. It's impossible to avoid them all, even if we knew what they all were.
So I try to avoid the specific things that I have particular sensitivity to and make reasonable choices about everything else. Avoiding trans fats is a reasonable precaution, for instance... avoiding fluoride is not.
Among the organic food community, there's this naturalistic fallacy... actually, I'd go a step further and call it a naturalistic fetishism... that if it's artificial it's bad and if it's natural it's good. That's completely spurious and I think it leads people to a whole lot of bad choices.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
@AbsoluteZero: Man, that DHMO stuff is funny and all until you get it in your lungs. Or until you realize how many people fall for that old gag. Still.
Actually it is.
Edit: Trace amounts enter the bloodstream anyway. I don't know if it crosses the blood-brain barrier.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
The disappointing genesis of the Silver Surfer: He's a Mitchum Man.
This, so much.
There are other ways that a crop can be more pest resistant. This isn't exactly my forte, but I've read a few articles about it. Some crops might be bred to emit less of some aromatic compound that attracts insects. Another crop might be bred to grow its leaves a little higher off the ground, making a more difficult target for ground-borne insects. Plants with chemical insect resistance might produce chemicals that break down faster than pesticides or are more selective in the critters they're toxic against.
But the point you bring up illustrates something that's rather important: natural fruits and vegetables contain poisons. Any fruit, no matter how naturally or organically grown, is going to contain small amounts of formaldehyde, acetone, and cyanide among others. The human body is pretty good at filtering these common hydrocarbons out. That's basically what your liver is for - your internal filtering system - and most talk of "toxin buildup" (especially among fad cleansing diets) is BS. Your body can filter out most dietary toxins and going on a temporary fast doesn't do any good.
Obviously there are some chemicals your body can't filter out, like heavy metals or asbestos, and some chemicals that do damage before they're eliminated, like carcinogens, but as I said above they really need to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.
Yeah. Of course, I'm going to do something infuriating and contradict myself. There are some cases in which natural is better. A human fungicide might be just a general-purpose poison, while a plant's evolved defense against fungus might be an allelopathic chemical that just targets fungus and is harmless in humans. When we synthesize chiral molecules in a lab, we usually get a racemic mixture... but when that same molecule is created by cellular processes, it's often a single stereoisomer. (I can't think of any good examples of this off the top of my head... maybe one will come to me overnight.) So, yes, there are cases in which natural is better, and often in surprising ways. We've barely scratched the surface of how a lot of these compounds interact.
But again, we need to look at them on a case-by-case basis.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
My shot-in-the-dark guess is that their toxicity in adult humans is minimal, but their effect on the environment (particularly in susceptible fish and amphibian populations) will be the real problem. I wouldn't be totally shocked if they were found to affect adolescent sexual development but I wouldn't be shocked if they didn't, either.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Oh yeah? Like what? I'm just curious now.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Basically developmental disorders then?
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
If you think something in particular brings on migraines or something, then avoid it.
The GMO fear is also funny - because it's seems like the general public is against it because they think GMO products will mutate them/alter their DNA. Sigh...
I can't imagine the panic when people realize that Oxygen is extremely oxidizing and therefore bad for organic tissue (your lungs)...
E: Not saying eating organic isn't better than stuffing ones face on pesticide sprayed shit. Just the general health scare in the media is silly.
What? I'd never heard of this before.
EDIT: Wait a minute...you bastard.
That joke was only ever funny in the exact instant you realised 'oh, it's water'. Not before that, not after that.
kpop appreciation station i also like to tweet some
does anyone remember those foot pads that are supposed to draw toxins out of your body and if you leave them on overnight they turn dark?
is that just the normal BS or do toxins actually come out through your feet....
it was just odd enough for me to think it might be true.
Kinoki foot pads are a scam.
If it sounds like something that Greenpeace would support, it's a fucking scam.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
i wondered why i never saw those comercials any more.
i just thought it was a neat idea if it actually worked...
type "soy reprod*" into a search engine and you'll get some interesting results. Its linked to all sorts of shit.
Greenpeace, Friends of the Earth, generic mantra-chanting incense-breathing herb-sucking yahoo, whatever. I don't have the time to bother differentiating between the people who tell me to eat less meat vs more seeds vs hey dude try this organic chai tea blend, it's far out.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
I'm worried I'll end up getting some manner of vegetable-fetish site. I assume it's related to the phytoestrogens?
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
And yeah, phytoestrogens and a few related compounds. Although their effects seem to pale besides cadmium's, although I've only skimmed the literature lately. Cadmium bad.
What? Are we talking about the same Greenpeace that shits themselves over GMOs and nuclear power, because they've both been scientifically proven to be completely unsafe and a disaster waiting to happen?
I'm pretty sure Greenpeace loves it some crystal-gripping hippie bullshit, it's just not their prime directive. But shit, what do you think they'd do if there weren't any beached whales, baby seals, or spotted owls?
Yeah, cadmium isn't even good for batteries. :P
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
You basing this on anything but your preconceived notions falcon?
Uh, how about the Greenpeace site, posters, press releases, and pretty much every word that comes out of their mouths? o_O
No, I have nothing to base that on. At all.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
I mean, given the choice between an organic crop sprayed with whatever pesticides you use on them, or as GM crop that produces a mild toxin (which occurs in some other plant) which doesn't affect humans but kills insects, and therefore doesn't need pesticide, I know what I'd choose.
It'll be a sad day when crop researchers finally create wheat or corn with legumious root nodules (basically, self-fertilising) and nobody will grow it because it's "unnatural".
I'm rambling, aren't I?