My only problem is I have no idea what to put my points into when it comes to heavy stat based games like this, especially one this complex where skills do a check on three attributes. Is there a limit to how high I can put points into base attributes? What should I focus on for a rogue? There are just too many stats! My brain!
I realized that agility, strength & cleverness (or intuition) actually boosts attack, parry & dodge every 2 points or so. So I boost those 3 depending on what else I need.
Renegen on
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
As a thief you're boosting your attack? You do like 5-6 damage at max with daggers, don't you? I am under the impression that thief-types aren't designed to be combat characters at all, so pumping something like strength is just pointless.
I mean.. right now I do maybe 2-3 damage on a regular hit. I rely on my party members to really take down opponents. My thief is a money maker and smooth talker.
Sacrificing those utility skills for combat related stats seems silly... if you want a damage dealer why not just make a damage dealer?
As a thief you're boosting your attack? You do like 5-6 damage at max with daggers, don't you? I am under the impression that thief-types aren't designed to be combat characters at all, so pumping something like strength is just pointless.
I mean.. right now I do maybe 2-3 damage on a regular hit. I rely on my party members to really take down opponents. My thief is a money maker and smooth talker.
Sacrificing those utility skills for combat related stats seems silly... if you want a damage dealer why not just make a damage dealer?
He manages fairly well with pick locks and trap detection and trap deactivation. The big problem is that my burglar and Gladys have a tendency to get raped in combat so I desperatedly need some strategy to get their dodge or parry up. It's all derivative, I think I boosted strength up to 14 to get armor use, but it also brought dodge bonus and attack bonus. I might give Gladys shield fighting, I don't know. I admit that Gladys is really lacking as mage, she's more of a social character who can yield a sword and has a few protective magics. Eventually I want to give her a good leather armor set. As for my burglar, instead of having the maximum 19 perception his level allows, he has 15, not a big deal. The added 250 or so points for the difference go in combat.
Basically, combat is hard. I'm currently stuck again because I get killed in a fight against 5 soldiers.
edit : Also, something cool that I worried about. It doesn't matter who initiates conversation, all social skill opportunities will show up during the dialog. (so for example you initiate talk with burglar, butyou have the chance to use Amazon's intimidate(I don't even know what triggers that) and Gladys's seduction)
Renegen on
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
I havn't gone that far with my thief, but I found combat far too easy when I played a soldier. My main, the amazon, and the dwarf would just go to fucking TOWN on anything we came across, and Gladys would sit there like a retard casting light spells.
I agree she seems rather useless, so once I get her again I am going to try to retool her into something useful... like a buffer or something stupid. I know I'll get a real magic user at some point, so a healer might be a good fit for her. I forget her stats though.
Right now my thief dodges most of the time, and I'm usually able to pull mobs off him with the amazon if need be. The only time I have actually died was
When I fought the bear. I decided to just go straight in without finding the wizard first... we killed him but my thief was knocked out with like 3 wounds and the amazon only had 2 bandages. I loaded my saved game, got the wizard, and he cooked him on the spot.
If you boost spells I suspect they can get quite strong. There's this spell that gives +1 to Armor rating for every part of the body, as you boost it you can get +2, +3 etc, it lasts for 5 minutes. That alone means she can join the battle. Healing when boosted can also cure wounds. I bet the attribute boosters can add like +4 or more when boosted, but yeah I'm waiting for a real damage dealing mage too.
Renegen on
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Sir CarcassI have been shown the end of my worldRound Rock, TXRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
I want to play this
Sir Carcass on
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
I read IGN's review just now.. or rather skimmed through it. There are a few spoilers in there I noticed before fully reading the sentence, so I had to be careful.
At one point he says, "I don't want to ruin the 80-something hour story for you but.." and then he proceeds to list some fucking plot elements. It's not difficult to write reviews without spoiling story points.. it really isn't. I don't know why some idiots can't get the hang of it.
The review bashes the game for the combat system, saying the presentation is lacking because the rolls are "under the hood." Well, you can bring up the log to see rolls if you like, and the combat presentation is pretty good for a turned-based system. Animations look great, the characters do random little things every now and then.. bah. In the screenshots with the review, the guy's hotbars were virtually empty. Methinks he just didn't know how to play the damn game.
That's the problem with reviews, they try to appeal to everyone and list an "average" score. But for fans of the genre, Drakensang is easily an 8 or even a 9. I was surprised IGN even had a review for it.
Yeah some things are not explained, for example for quick skills just press 1 or 3 etc it saves you the time you need to target the skill. Or WASD makes movement more fluid. The game lacks the typical holding by the hand every game today has, but a fully functioning human can experiment, fail and try again and pretty quickly the game is a great time.
Are the rules for this carbon copied from the PnP version?
I couldn't tell you, as I don't know much about Dark Eye.
If you're into D&D it's fairly similar in that you have checks and skills and what not.. but it seems far more convoluted in that regard if you ask me.
I'm having trouble running this. It loads fine, I twiddle with the options, etc. I click New Game, it starts loading and I see the screen with the voice over. It loads and I click Continue. It shows the character creation screen for about 2 seconds and then BSOD. The message on it isn't really helpful.
Drivers are updated. I can't really find anything about others having this problem.
Sir Carcass on
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Alfred J. Kwakis it because you were insultedwhen I insulted your hair?Registered Userregular
That's the problem with reviews, they try to appeal to everyone and list an "average" score. But for fans of the genre, Drakensang is easily an 8 or even a 9. I was surprised IGN even had a review for it.
German magazines rated the game around 60-80%, and it's a german game, meaning that it gets the patriot bonus (like say, the Gothic or Sacred series, all in the 90% area). Many fans on the boards were generally displeased with the game from what I gathered close after the release, believing it to be not on par with the Nordland trilogy (the three previous games in the series from the 90s). Personally, I think the IGN score is pretty accurate, but he raised some silly point while leaving out other, more grave issues with the game.
I'm having trouble running this. It loads fine, I twiddle with the options, etc. I click New Game, it starts loading and I see the screen with the voice over. It loads and I click Continue. It shows the character creation screen for about 2 seconds and then BSOD. The message on it isn't really helpful.
Drivers are updated. I can't really find anything about others having this problem.
BSOD? So you have Vista? And it's not a drivers problem? I don't have Vista so I don't know what to tell you. Try the official forums. Try the demo, maybe it's limited to your install. Also I can upload a save and see if you can load it, maybe it's just the start.
That's the problem with reviews, they try to appeal to everyone and list an "average" score. But for fans of the genre, Drakensang is easily an 8 or even a 9. I was surprised IGN even had a review for it.
German magazines rated the game around 60-80%, and it's a german game, meaning that it gets the patriot bonus (like say, the Gothic or Sacred series, all in the 90% area). Many fans on the boards were generally displeased with the game from what I gathered close after the release, believing it to be not on par with the Nordland trilogy (the three previous games in the series from the 90s). Personally, I think the IGN score is pretty accurate, but he raised some silly point while leaving out other, more grave issues with the game.
A lot of reviews are above the 80 area, your statement is innacurate. Also what are these "serious" problems? All I see are a few areas of improvement with more time and money, it was developed at a low price.
Renegen on
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
Yes I'd like to hear about these grave issues with the game. So far, the only one I can see is seemingly needless complexity to the combat/character system.. but I'm slowly learning that.
And Sir Carcass:
What is your video card? If you drivers are up to date, have you tried rolling them back a version? I'm running Vista32 and have had no such problems.
Are the rules for this carbon copied from the PnP version?
I couldn't tell you, as I don't know much about Dark Eye.
If you're into D&D it's fairly similar in that you have checks and skills and what not.. but it seems far more convoluted in that regard if you ask me.
If it's anything like the PnP version (or at least what I've read on it; I've never played "The Dark Eye"), it's a "roll low" system, so that minuses are bonuses and pluses are penalties. Also, skill checks use three rolls against the target number (using three different stats), using the best result (or the best two? not really sure).
delroland on
EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
Wooo, gonna go try this out. I played DSA when I was an exchange student, and haven't since. I picked this over the new NWN expansion. We'll see how that decision works out.
seabass on
Run you pigeons, it's Robert Frost!
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
Are the rules for this carbon copied from the PnP version?
I couldn't tell you, as I don't know much about Dark Eye.
If you're into D&D it's fairly similar in that you have checks and skills and what not.. but it seems far more convoluted in that regard if you ask me.
If it's anything like the PnP version (or at least what I've read on it; I've never played "The Dark Eye"), it's a "roll low" system, so that minuses are bonuses and pluses are penalties. Also, skill checks use three rolls against the target number (using three different stats), using the best result (or the best two? not really sure).
Then yes, that's exactly how this works.
Well, "minuses are bonuses and pluses are penalties" is true in some aspects, but not all. A higher dodge is better, so bonuses to your dodge are pluses. You do want to roll low, though, if I understand it correctly.
but yeah I'm waiting for a real damage dealing mage too.
Oh man.. don't wait. I started learning/upgrading spells for Gladys straight away and she's pretty damn good.
The attribute booster spells do give you quite an increase, but they only last for a few seconds. Her armour boost is self-only, but it lasts for several minutes.
I'm casting pillars of flame at fuckers like there's no tomorrow.
That buxom female who joins the PC looks angry and severly crosseyed. Also, aren't they holding their warhammers the wrong way around or am I just a retard? Get this shit on Steam and I'll buy it.
Roshin on
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Sir CarcassI have been shown the end of my worldRound Rock, TXRegistered Userregular
BSOD? So you have Vista? And it's not a drivers problem? I don't have Vista so I don't know what to tell you. Try the official forums. Try the demo, maybe it's limited to your install. Also I can upload a save and see if you can load it, maybe it's just the start.
No, it's XP. I looked around the forums but didn't see anything. I'll try the demo.
What is your video card? If you drivers are up to date, have you tried rolling them back a version? I'm running Vista32 and have had no such problems.
I have a 6800 Ultra. My computer barely meets the minimum specs, but it does meet them. I actually had the previous video drivers installed at first. After the crashes, I upgraded them to the newest version, but no change.
Sir Carcass on
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
I have a 6800 Ultra. My computer barely meets the minimum specs, but it does meet them. I actually had the previous video drivers installed at first. After the crashes, I upgraded them to the newest version, but no change.
That might be your trouble, then. "System requirements" are as far as it gets from an exact science, and having the minimum spot on is a recipe for disaster.
I'm hoping to find a spellcaster who isn't useless, but so far there's nothing. Just me as a rogue, a fighter, an amazon, and an archer/cleric. We do alright for ourselves.
Aistan on
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
I'm hoping to find a spellcaster who isn't useless, but so far there's nothing. Just me as a rogue, a fighter, an amazon, and an archer/cleric. We do alright for ourselves.
That archer/cleric is your spellcaster, and she's plenty useful if you squeeze her just right.
As of now, I have her wearing armour up to Enc 1 and a wooden shield. She's got that flame spell and thunder bolt both maxed out, as well as healing and buff spells.
I keep her on passive at all times, and I basically control her manually during fights. The rest of my party is melee based (Thief, the dwarf, the amazon) so I just switch to them for a quick ability now and again. Gladys hangs back and heals, debuffs, and damages as needed.
True, she doesn't pack as much punch as a pure damage caster would, but she can hold her own quite fine. With her armour self-buff she's fairly versitile.
The elf lady, not Gladys. And yeah she does pretty well. Only time I have trouble is when an enemy attacks so fast and does wounds with each hit that a character is at 5 and dead before she can get a heal off.
Also, I just got the human warrior and holy crap he's awesome. Dwarf now gets the backseat.
I was reading an FAQ to get a bearing on what I should put points into, and it was quite informative, although I still don't quite understand things like TAV. I'd like to post what he wrote (he's not a native English speaker, so don't mind any mistakes below) discuss them to see if these are good choices.
About Dodge/Weapon Parry/Shield:
Weapon parry: Very dependent from your weapon. Wooden hammer with -2/-4 sucks, floret with 0/+1 rules. Not as important as in PnP, since AT and PA values above 20 barely matter in Drakensang. Still, the only valid choice for tin-can two-handed weapon wielders. If you focus on one weapon class it is cheaper both AP and money wise, but since enhancement is restricted by character level, shield combat gives you betters stats, esp in the early game.
Shield parry: My favorite! The most important part of the shield: The second parry! Defense against ranged weapons! How many times are you surrounded by 3-4 rats - and here the second shield parry will save your day! Enemy archers ahead? Well, you got your shield!
Shields give you the option to develop multiple melee skills - just increase TAV to 5 and allocate all points into AT, shield parry will do the trick on defense. Yes, it is more costly than weapon parry - but you can find good shields quite early in the game. Just take the improved iron shield (-2/5), add SF II (+4) and with PA base 9 you have reached PA 18 and almost maxed your defense. Just fire defensive combat I when needed - and here you go. Only problem: Casters can only use wooden shields (-1/3), so they might need defensive combat II to get max defense in melee. Still, better than weapon parry for them.
Dodge: Bad? No, horrible! A lousy +2 bonus per dodge ability is way too small to make this one worthwhile in battle. Only race that might find this one useful is the elves who can get +4 dodge via spellcasting(***) - and even then they shouldn't get any encumbrance. If I had to decide between thick armor and dodge, I would always prefer armor and go shield parry instead.
Weapons:
Brawling
Basic: Yes
Cost: C (low)
eEC: 0
Abilites: only Masterparry
Pro: cheap both AP and ducat wise, no weapon needed
Con: very low damage, no abilities except Masterparry, no weapon parry possible, no eEC bonus
Conclusion: Useless. Unless you look for a real challenge and want win the game without any weapon.
Daggers
Basic: Yes
Cost: D (medium)
eEC:-1
Abilities: Mortal Blow
Pro: Basic, no ST needed
Con: very low eEC, low damage, no Mighty Blow abilities
Conclusion: Better than Brawling - but does that mean much? Keep away if possible.
Sabres
Basis: Yes
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -2
Abilities: Windmill
Pro: Base talent, mostly good WM, no high ST needed
Con: No Strike of Wrath, no Lunge
Conclusion: Good 1H weapon talent for non-fighters in the early game. Later swords are better imo, but I am sure you will find a magic sabre - so an okay option for one of your characters.
Swords
Basis: No
Cost: E (high)
eEC: -2
Abilities: Windmill, Roundhouse (not the Chuck Norris (tm) one), no high ST required
Pro: Versatile , mostly good WM
Con: costly (ducat and AP wise), No Strike of Wrath, no Mortal Blow
Conclusion: A good skill for characters with mediocre strength and shield fighter skills. Don't have to mention that the magic sword is the archetype of any magic weapon, do I?
Fencing Weapons
Basic: No
Cost: E (high)
eEC: -1
Abilities: Mortal Blow, Windmill
Pro: Probably best WM around, no ST needed, at least 1 good magic weapon confirmed
Con: Expensive (ducat and AP wise), low eEC, no Mighty Blow abilities
Conclusion: The best skill for 1H weapon fighters (or mages?) without a shield. Can deliver mortal blows which is really nice, fighters with shield should stick to swords instead, but one character with this is always good for the party since you will get a nice weapon in the early midgame.
Maxes and Axes
Basic: Yes
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -4
Abilities: Strike of Wrath, Windmill, Roundhouse
Pro: Basic, excellent eEC, benefits from high ST
Contra: No upper tier feint abilities, requires decent ST to use effectively, rather bad PA WM
Conclusion: The ideal weapon for shield using tanks and heavily armored fighters. ST bonus can be very nice in later game when you get ST improving items and magic. My favorite! Doesn't do that well against high PA enemies, but since they are rare in Drakensang (let me recall - did I ever see one? Nope, afaik not...) - don't care about that.
Staves
Basic: No
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -2
Abilities: Windmill, Roundhouse, Rush
Pro: Versatile, possible distance bonus vs. low range weapons (???) (***), no ST required, good WM
Con: 2H-weapon, no higher tier feint abilities, no Strike of Wrath
Conclusion: A versatile weapon for defensive orientated characters - mages & alike. Main advantage over spears is the better WM. You will get at least 2 nice staffs during the game, so one character with this would be nice - if you can handle the enemy numbers.
Spears
Basic: No
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -3
Abilities: Mortal Strike, Rush
Pro: Good eEC, no ST required, possible distance bonus vs. low range weapons (???) (***), can Mortal Strike
Contra: 2H-weapon, no Mighty Blow attacks, often bad WM, no good spears during the early game
Conclusion: Messed up in Drakensang. More offensive than Staves, but the lack of Mighty Blow maneuvers sucks. No really good weapons can be found in early game - and even later, spears tend to have bad WM. But maybe the waiting is worth it and you get a super-duper dragonkiller spear later, who knows? But really, spears are pity in Drakensang. Too bad, since I really like this weapon class. In PnP you can use them with shields once you have ST 15+ (Sparta style) - and there you can even use them as throwing weapons. Not to mention the cool tacking ability that is missing here... *sob* Oh well, I guess if I ever finish the game I will try an elven warrior with spear and dodge... Bwahahaha...
2H-Maxes and Axes
Basic: No
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -3
Abilities: Strike of Wrath, Roundhouse, Windmill
Pro: Good eEC, high damage, benefits from high ST
Con: 2H-weapon, no feint abilities whatsoever, very bad WM, ST needed
Conclusion: For the damage dealing tin can. The WM of these weapons is probably the worst in the game (even spears can't beat that), even on high TAV a solid defense is impossible. The lack of feint makes it a very bad choice against enemies with good PA (again - did i ever see one?!). Like one handed maces and axes this one greatly benefits from boosted ST.
2H-Swords
Basic: No
Cost: E (high)
eEC: -2
Abilities: Strike of Wrath, Roundhouse, Windmill
Pro: Good damage, better WM than 2H-Maces and Axes, no high ST needed
Contra: 2H-weapon, costly (AP and ducat wise), no high tier feint abilities
Conclusion: Two handed weapon with better defense capability than 2H-Maces/Axes (and the ability to feint). Needs lower ST attributes, but also lower eEC and max damage in the later game.
Bow
Basic: No
Cost: E (high)
eEC: -3
Abiltiy: Master Marksman
Pro: Low reload time, good damage per shot and round
Con: Costly (ducat and AP wise), needs ammo
Conclusion: #1 Ranged weapon, way better than crossbows. Actually good for mages to do a Master Marksman shot as battle opening and starting to cast afterward. Longbows have the ability to one-shot enemies with Master Marksman. And you get a few Tenobaal's feather arrows, with a nasty (+10 iirc?) damage bonus.
Crossbow
Basis: No
Cost: C (low)
eEC: -5
Abilities: Master Marksman
Pro: Cheap, very good eEC, good damage
Con: Long reload time
Conclusion: Can't think of a reason why to choose a crossbow over a bow. Yes, they are cheaper AP wise, but their potential is much lower than bows. And you will barely be able to fire a handful of shots in combat anyway with their horrible reload time. And eEC does not really matter for ranged combat anyway...
Throwing Weapons
Basis: Yes
Cost: C (low)
eEC: -2
Ability: Master Throw
Pro: Base talent, cheap
Con: Low damage, low range
Conclusion: Again, only a good weapon if you pick style of substance. Master throw may knock enemies down, but most of the time dealing wounds is better. But I guess the problem with these comes from the PnP version where all but the best throwing weapons are basically useless. Actually, you may survive about 10 throwing daggers in your chest if you wear thick clothing... And to hit, you have to get into point black range were an enemy with a spear can already impale you... Bah...
So, for one handed weapons, maces/axes are the weapons of choice for classic tanks with good armor, shield combat and high ST.
Swords, Sabres and Fencing weapons are more for allrounders and low ST characters, with swords being on the damage track and fencing weapons in the feinting/wounding one.
Daggers and brawling is useless.
For two handed weapons, 2H-swords and 2H-maces/axes deal very high damage, with 2H-swords being a bit more balanced and 2H-maces/axes being very offensive.
Staves and Spears are versatile (esp. the spear with Rush and Mortal Blow), but unless the range bonus works I think they are not worth it...
For ranged weapons, bow is king. Only if you lack money or AP you should go for crossbows or throwing weapons - and trust me, you can spare those 1000 AP for them...
What to improve:
In general, it is a good idea to max at least one combat talent, other talents should be enhanced depending on play style and game progress.
In general a TAV of 7 equals roughly 80% chance of success for your talent (with decent attributes), so this is the lowest value were you might want to improve all talents you want to use.
Talents can be put in several categories:
MAX talents: Talents that are frequently used, suffer heavy difficult penalties, get huge benefits per TAV point or are used for combat. They should always be maxed asap.
For Drakensang this are: Pick locks, disarm traps, willpower (prevents wounds), all combat talents, frequently used spells and - if you want to use it - haggle.
REG talents: Talents that just need enough TAV to compensate mediocre difficulty penalties and do not really benefit from TAP*:
Perception, plant lore, animal lore, survival, treat poison, treat wounds, seduce, etiquette, human nature, fast talk. These talents should be raised to TAV 7-10. After the swamps you might want to increase them to 12-15.
MIN talents: Talents were no skill checks are made or that do not benefit from TAP* at all:
Blacksmith, bowyer, alchemy, some spells like Flim Flam (light spell for the mage), Attributo (stat increasing spell for less important attributes like AG, DE and IN) or the elvish animal summon spell.
Some talents should only be learned by characters left behind in Ardo's mansion: arcane lore and - if you really don't want to spare the AP - all artisan talents (except pick lock and disarm trap). Just train all these unwanted guys with them and only add them to group if you need the skills.
While body talents are useful for everyone (esp. sneaking - if you have one bad sneaker he might blow cover for the whole group), the others should in general not be trained to more than one character. There is no benefit in raising two characters seduce talent to 15.
It is a wise idea to raise VI and AE 1-3 times during the early game, maxing your combat talents has highest priority.
Attributes should be raised rather late (from up to 4000 AP).
However, there are two exceptions:
First, raise attributes like CO and ST when you just need one point to get important combat abilities like shield fighter I/II/III, Windmill, Mortal Strike and so on.
Raise attributes if a single point will improve your AT, PA or RC base value.
Later on you might want to max ST to get maximum weapon damage from weapons, esp. (2H) maces and axes. As a little something extra, every two points will increase your VI by 1.
CN is another good choice for fighters, although it is not needed for many talents: each point adds +1 vitality, increases wound threshold by 1 and makes you more resilient to poison and illness.
For lock pickers increased DE is a valid option, but throughout the game you will find many magic items that enhance DE - a value higher than 14 or 15 is usually not needed.
Unlike in the PnP version, you should not raise other attributes, simply because there are too few talents connected to them. In PnP, there are like 30 talents bound to CL, but in Drakensang, there is really no need to boost this attribute.
As a reminder: A single attribute point increases your chances of success for the related talents by roughly 2,5%, while adding a point of TAV gives you ~7% for a fraction of the AP cost.
Special Abilities:
Every character should get the tier 1 skills except for the rather useless Master Parry:
Feint and Mighty Blow make combat much easier, even if you just fight for self defense.
Learn offensive combat I & defensive combat I asap.
These abilities can be fired up to give a +2 bonus to either attack or defense while draining a minimum amount of endurance - very useful throughout the whole game!
Now you might think about getting level II & III. On word: DON'T! They are costly, require many endurance per round when fired up - and you will have better use for that later anyway. Beside: there is no benefit from raising your AT or PA above 19 - which you already reach in the early mid game. Non combat characters with low PA might want to learn defensive combat II and that's an okay, esp. for mages.
I highly recommend using a shield with every character to deal with enemy numbers, so for me shield fighter I/II/III is a must-have for the whole party.
Once you got combat abilities, getting endurance I/II/III is a good choice.
When encumbrance from armor starts to rise above eEC, get armor user I/II/III.
Melee fighters should get Roundhouse to deal with many foes quickly. Strike of Wrath and Mortal Blow are king for the later game.
Ranged characters should learn marksman & master marksman asap, endurance is very helpful.
In general around 6000-8000 AP your party should have maxed AT and PA values to 19/19 and use shields with the highest available level of SU.
So basically:
Everyone should get shields to tier III (the exception being mages where shields disable their spellcasting?), as well as Endurance I, II, and III.
Swords, sabres, and fencing weapons are good for low ST, all around type characters and staves/axes are good for the shield and armor fighters.
Max willpower, combat talents, and frequently used spells.
Raise VI and AE only one to three times during the early game.
Attributes should be raised late except for CO and ST when purchasing combat abilities, and CN is a good skill for fighters, whereas DE is valid for lock pickers but not beyond 14 or 15. Do not raise other attributes beyond the ones listed, as there are too few talents connected to them.
Feint and Mighty Blow are important, and learn Offensive and Defensive Combat I ASAP. Do not get tiers II and III, as they are costly and require too much endurance per round.
Get Armor Use I, II, and III when encumbrance from armor starts to rise above eEC (effective encumbrance). I don't quite understand the eEC all that well, though. It sounds like in the end, almost everyone should get Armor Use along with Shields. I'm also not quite sure what TAV means.
I might remake my character now, since I put points into shit I probably shouldn't have. I don't know if I'll go with a warrior this time or remake my rogue. If I do remake my rogue, it sounds like getting shield and perhaps armor use should be a priority.
I guess after reading the guide the overwhelming sense of stat distribution is gone. Attributes really shouldn't be touched unless you need them for acquiring the combat abilities. I should keep willpower high maxed for everyone, and disarm traps/pick locks should be maxed for my rogue if I remake him. Things like treat wounds and treat poison should be around TAV 7-10 and after the swamps TAV 13-15, but like I said, what's TAV? So in the end you're mostly spending points on a very small amount of items instead of the huge sheet of choices in front of you, mostly combat abilities?
Dashui on
Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
I was reading an FAQ to get a bearing on what I should put points into, and it was quite informative, although I still don't quite understand things like TAV. I'd like to post what he wrote (he's not a native English speaker, so don't mind any mistakes below) discuss them to see if these are good choices.
snip
I dunno, i haven't actually played it yet (just about to start) so i really have no idea what i'm talking about ;-) but that sounds like a min/maxing guide...and min/maxing is usually neither fun nor necessary in single player games
BSOD? So you have Vista? And it's not a drivers problem? I don't have Vista so I don't know what to tell you. Try the official forums. Try the demo, maybe it's limited to your install. Also I can upload a save and see if you can load it, maybe it's just the start.
No, it's XP. I looked around the forums but didn't see anything. I'll try the demo.
What is your video card? If you drivers are up to date, have you tried rolling them back a version? I'm running Vista32 and have had no such problems.
I have a 6800 Ultra. My computer barely meets the minimum specs, but it does meet them. I actually had the previous video drivers installed at first. After the crashes, I upgraded them to the newest version, but no change.
My system is a Intel 2 Dual Core 2 GHZ, but then I have 1 Gig of RAM and a ATI Radeon x1400 mobility. I don't know how that compares to your NVidia, but it's not the greatest machine and there's no problems.
I was reading an FAQ to get a bearing on what I should put points into, and it was quite informative, although I still don't quite understand things like TAV. I'd like to post what he wrote (he's not a native English speaker, so don't mind any mistakes below) discuss them to see if these are good choices.
snip
I dunno, i haven't actually played it yet (just about to start) so i really have no idea what i'm talking about ;-) but that sounds like a min/maxing guide...and min/maxing is usually neither fun nor necessary in single player games
True, but Drakensang is so heavily reliant on stats, almost bordering on (or beyond) convoluted, that it's quite easy to get overwhelmed and screw up your character. It's hard to know just what you should put points into, and that guide helps to point you in the right direction.
There's nothing wrong with going a different path than the guide which you think will be more fun (spears instead of the recommended swords/maces/axes), but what about the expensive attributes? Courage, Cleverness, Intuition, Charisma, Dexterity, Agility, Constitution, and Strength? Just where should I put my points? Is it worth it to increase this or that? They are expensive, after all, and the game doesn't make it clear exactly how these things tie together or what's important for your class, etc.
Anyways, I only posted the sections of the guide I thought were the most important to me. I'll paste the whole guide in this thread in a few minutes. It was written by a non-Native English speaker, so there are a lot of grammar and spelling mistakes. I thought I had corrected them all with OpenOffice, but I must have screwed up and didn't save it properly. I'm going to go through it again and then paste it soon. Of course, I could just link you, but wouldn't you rather a version gone through a spell checker?
Dashui on
Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
So, it seems to run pretty well on my system, but I haven't had any luck getting it to launch as a non-steam game. Anyone tried this and had any success?
Alright, here's the FAQ/guide. It's long so I'll have to make two posts.
von sajin's Guide Part One
Table of contents
0) Welcome
1) How does the TDE system work?
I) Attributes
II) Base Values
III) Talent- and Spell checks
2) The combat system
I) How does the combat system work?
II) Calculating combat values
III) Hit points and ST bonus
IV) Ranged combat
V) Sword and Shield - choosing your weapon
i) Ways to parry
ii) Weapon classes
3) Enhancement
I) Levels
II) Costs
III) What should I improve?
IV) Special abilities
0) WELCOME!
You are new to the world of The Dark Eye, you have bought Drakensang and now your are a bit clueless how some game mechanics or rules work?
Well, no worries! I play the pen and paper version of TDE for more than 8 years now - and I learn something new at every session.
The following FAQ contains the most important facts about the game mechanics.
Side Note 1:
The PnP system from TDE is much more complicated than the Drakensang system, but I have no complete overview on the changes made for the computer Version. Therefore, there are parts in this FAQ where I am not 100% sure if my statements are correct. I will mark these with three red stars ***.
Side Note 2:
Since I am a non-native English speaker, this text will contain several spelling and grammar mistakes, as well as partially wrong translated in-game terms from the German version. Your help to fix them is appreciated!
1) HOW DOES THE TDE SYSTEM WORK?
TDE is a so-called "3D20" dice roll system, pretty much focused on single or triple 20-sided dices. These are mostly used to check attributes.
Every character has 8 attributes, usually reaching from 8-20:
I)Attributes
CO - Courage
CL - Cleverness
IN - Intuition
CH - Charisma
DE - Dexterity
AG - Agility
CN - Constitution
ST - Strength
If a character uses a talent or casts a spell, three 20-sided dice are rolled to see if he is successful. This is called talent check and spell check.
However, before I can elaborate on these, I have to explain another bunch of numbers:
II) Base Values
This are basic values calculated from attributes and mostly needed for combat. Unfortunately, the character sheet does often not show the real base value, but rather a total value from: base value +/- racial modifier +/- class modifier +/- bonuses/penalties modifier.
AT base: (CO+AG+ST)/5
Attack base is the basic AT value for all melee weapons.
Even if your character hast never learned how to use sabres (Talent Value TAV 0), he may still wield the weapon with this basic attack value. AT base is important for many offensive combat abilities.
PA base: (IN+AG+ST)/5
Parry base is the basic value for all kinds of defensive actions: Weapon parry, shield parry and even dodge. Some defensive combat abilities require a certain amount of PA base.
RC base: (IN/DE/ST)/5
Ranged combat base is the basic attack value for all ranged weapons. Some ranged combat abilities require a certain amount of RC base.
Vitality: (CN+CN+ST)/2
The vitality of a character, showing how many hit points it can take before dying. As you might guess: The more, the merrier!
The real base value cannot be seen, only the total value. However, the calculation works, since every point of CN gives you +1 to vitality.
In general, dwarfs and fighting professions have a bonus to vitality, while elves and spell casters suffer a malus.
Endurance: (CO+CN+AG)/2
The endurance of a character, needed for almost all combat abilities.
Real base value is not shown, only total value can be seen.
Astral Energy: (CO+IN+CH)/2
Used for casting spells. Works like "mana" from other systems.
Again, only the total value is shown.
Resist Magic: (CO+CL+CN)/5
Protects from enemy spells by reducing the effective talent value (TAV) of the spell caster.
Only total value is shown. In general, thorwals have reduced RM, while spell casters, elves and dwarfs have increased RM.
Wound Threshold: (CN) ***
The amount of hit points a character can suffer without getting wounded. Hit points > CN will result in one wound, HP > 2xCN will result in two wounds (and so on).
Raising CN will automatically increase the WT of your character.
(Note: In the PnP Version, WT is only CN/2. I have no idea if it is in fact CN or CN/2 in Drakensang.)
III) Talent- and Spell checks:
As said above, when using a spell or talent, the game rolls three D20 on the required talents. If the roll is smaller or equal the attribute, everything is fine. However, if it is higher, the game will use points from your talent value (TAV) to reduce the rolled number down to your attribute value.
Example: Alrik has DE 12 and IN 12, his TAV "Disarm Traps" is 10, he tries to disarm a neat indy trap in the dungeon of black mage Gerwulf:
He rolls on DE/DE/IN, so thats 12/12/12 for his attributes.
The dice show: DE12, DE15, IN 3. The first roll is still equal to his attributes, all fine. For the second, he has to use 3 points from his TAV 10 to reduce it down to 12. The third is lower than twelve and fine again.
All remaining talent points at the end of a talent check are called "TaP*". If the TaP* are 0+, the talent check is considered successful.
Example: Alrik from above has 10 (TAV) - 3 (reduction for second talent check roll) = 7 TaP* after the talent check.
What you have to consider is that difficult actions are penalized with a positive modifier, reducing your TAV for that talent check. If your TAV is reduced below 0, every roll must be that much lower than your attribute!
Example: Alrik tries to disarm a really difficult trap (+15 modifier), his TAV is 10. So his effective TAV for this talent check is: 10 (TAV) - 15 (difficult trap modifier) = -5. Every roll of his skill check must be five points below his attributes (12/12/12) - not a single one may exceed 7 or the skill check will fail! Well, good luck, Alrik!
On the other hand, tools can give your character a negative modifier which can be used to reduce bad dice rolls. However, TaP* can never be higher than your regular TAV.
Another side note: Two or three "1" rolled will always result in a successful talent check, while two or three "20" always result in a failure.
Ain't nothing better than rolling two twenties in PnP while your character is climbing up a hundred meter high cliff... Ouch...
Note: Since the devs seem to hate failures, there are some talents and spells in Drakensang that will never fail, but rather have 0 TaP* instead: The "light" spell for mages is such an example.
Now, let's have a look at that with some examples:
Alrik wants to do some lock picking on chests. He has DE 15 and IN 14, his TAV "Pick Locks" is 15, the talent check is on DE/DE/IN - 15/15/14.
The first chest has an easy lock, so the talent check isn't modified. Alrik uses a hair pin, which adds +1 to his TAV (Don't confuse this with the difficulty modifier - here +1 is a good thing. Yeah, I know, totally counter intuitive...). His effective TAV therefore is 15 (TAV) + 1 (hairpin) = 16
Drakensang rolls: DE12, DE15, IN18.
The first two rolls are smaller or equal his DE, so there is no need to spend talent points. The third roll (18) is 4 above his IN value, so he has to spend 4 talent points to reduce it.
So in the end Alrik has: 15 (TAV) + 1 (hair pin) - 4 (roll reduction) = 12 TaP* - the lock is open!
The second chest has a better lock, the talent check is modified by +10. Alrik decides to use one of his lock picks (TAV +5).
For this check, his TAV thus is: 15 (TAV) - 10 (difficulty) + 5 (tools) = 10
Drakensang rolls: DE19 DE16 IN19
The first roll needs 4 points to be reduced down to 15, so 6 TaP remain. The second roll is 1 too high, so he has 5 TaP remaining, the third is 5 too high - in the end, Alrik has 0 TaP*. A close one, but still a success.
Now if Alrik had used his hair pin instead of the lock picks, he would only have had +1 instead of +5 bonus points - and the talent check would have failed with -4 TaP*...
The third chest has a masterful lock - giving him a +15 modifier. He looks for another pair of lock picks and prays - his TAV is only 15 (TAV) - 15 (difficulty) + 5 (lock picks) = 5.
He rolls, but, oh my: DE20, FF3, IN20 - the talent check fails due to a double 20...
With a curse on his lips, Alrik pulls out another pair of lock picks and gives the lock another try:
DE3 DE8 IN12
All rolls are below his attributes - so he has 5 TaP* remaining, the lock is open!
Now Alrik finds another chest. It has a simple lock (no difficulty modifier), but Alrik has no lock picks or hair pins left. So he has to use his bare hands to open the lock, giving him a +10 penalty for missing tools. His TAV for this talent check is thus: 15 (TAV) - 10 (bare hands) = 5.
Drakensang rolls: DE16 DE4 IN10
Alrik has to spend 1 point to reduce the first roll down to 15, so he has 4 TaP* left, the lock is open.
Just when turns around to leave the warehouse, he suddenly finds another chest with a masterful lock (+15). Since he has no more tools, he would suffer the bare hand penalty (+10). In the end that would mean: 15 (TAV) - 15 (difficulty) - 10 (bare hands) = -10 TAV.
That means every(!) roll for this talent check would have to be 10 points below Alrik's attributes.
Alrik knows he wouldn't succeed even if he gave it ten tries - and he hears footsteps from somewhere behind him - time to get out of the warehouse!
While TaP* are rather unimportant for talent checks in Drakensang, spell checks are another issue:
Mage Bosper wants to cast a energy bolt (Fulminictus) to get that big filthy rat. His attributes are 14/12/12 his talent value (TAV) is 12.
He rolls:
IN16 AG14 CN10
So he has to use 2+2+0 TaP to reduce his dice rolls, 8 TaP* are remaining.
His spell now deals 2D6+8 damage. He rolls two six-sided dice: 4 and 3 = 7, giving a total of 15 hit points.
Since the rat is still alive (and suddenly called smaller ones!) he casts the spell a second time:
IN2 AG10 CN12
All TaP remain, giving 12 TaP*. He rolls 2D6: A 5 and a 6 - so thats 5 + 6 + 12 = 23 hit points - enough to take the big rat down.
The elven spell weaver Elayoë wants to increase dwarf Forgrimm's strength with an "Attributo ST" spell. Her attributes are 18 16 12, her TAV is 6.
She rolls: 16 17 10 - 5 TaP* remain.
The spell now increases Forgrimm's strength by 5/3+1. 5/3 is rounded up, giving 2, so Forgrimm now gains 2+1=3 ST.
A few weeks later, the exhausted party returns home from the swamps.
Now she wants to enchant Forgrimm's CN before an important battle - however, her TAV for that spell is only 3. Her attributes are: 18 16 13
She rolls: 13 14 19 - giving -3 TaP*. Normally the spell would now fail, but the developers decided to be nice: Regardless the TaP* are set to 0 and Forgrimm gets +1 CN.
Elayoë notices her failure and decides to increase ST now instead. Since some time has gone by, she has now a TAV of 17. Her attributes are: 18 16 12, she rolls:
10 15 9 - all 17 TaP* remain! Forgrimm gains 17/3+1=7 points of ST! It's hammer time!!
2) THE COMBAT SYSTEM
Since combat is a major part of the Drakensang gameplay, it gets a bigger part of the FAQ.
I) How does the combat system work?
Combat in TDE is round-based.
Every round of battle (BR) takes about 2 seconds. Normally any character has 1 attack and 1 parry each round.
During the combat round, all characters will attack once. It is important to note that Drakensang doesn't use initiative values like the PnP version, so the good guys always act first.
To check if an attack is successful, a single D20 is rolled on the current AT value of the character. If the roll is smaller or equal the AT value, the attack is considered successful.
Unless the victim has been attacked from behind, it may now try to parry: It may roll a D20 on it's PA value. If the roll is smaller or equal, the attack has been parried and nothing happens.
Dodge in this case is a parry maneuver like weapon or shield parry. It can be used as a substitute without any malus. (***)
If a 1 is rolled during combat, a second "check roll" is made and a special combat rule applies:
AT 1 attacks will be considered lucky, regardless if the second check fails or succeeds. A lucky attack can only be parried with 1/2 (***) of the regular PA value.
If the second check roll is successful, the attack is considered "lucky critical": It will deal double damage if it is not parried.
Parries that roll a 1 and succeed with the check roll will not consume the parry for this round and thus give an additional chance to parry another foe.
If a 20 is rolled, the attack or parry option is considered "bumbler".
I have no details about the effect of a bumbler, but one thing I know: regular PnP rules do not apply, so your character cannot hit himself or fall down to the ground.
My guess would be that an AT 20 consumes all remaining actions for this round(***) and is considered a failure, a PA 20 will just let your enemy hit.
Whenever a target is hit, a D20 is rolled to determine the hit zone: 1-6 legs, 7+8 lower body, 9-14 arms, 15-18 upper body, 19+20 head.
Afterwards, the hit points of the weapon are resolved: A sword with 1D+4 will deal 1 six sided dice plus 4, thus 5-10 HP. The local armor class is subtractedfrom the hit points tp determine the actual damage points.
If the received DP are higher than CN (or CN/2, see wound threshold in post #1), the character suffers a wound unless he succeeds in a Willpower +10 check. Wounds reduce the combat capability of a character: AT base, PA base, RC base and AG are reduced by -2. If a character suffers 5 wounds, he will loose consciousness immediately.
Now lets have a look at a fight:
Alrik is a mercenary from Ferdok, he fights with a sword and a padded surcoat, bracers, greaves and a helmet, his armor class on every spot of the body is 2.
His stats: VI:35, AT:15, PA:14, HP:1D+4, AC:2, CN:15
His enemy is a shady beggar from the "Brisky Ferret", he wears a jerkin and fights with a dagger.
Stats: VI 30, AT:12, PA:12, HP:1D+1, AC:0-2, CN:13
1. BR:
Alrik: AT roll 10 -> success, Beggar: PA roll: 2 -> success
Beggar: AT roll 18 -> failure
2. BR:
Alrik: AT roll 19 -> failure
Beggar: AT roll 2 -> success, Alrik PA roll: 18 -> failure
The Beggar hits Alrik on the left leg for 3 HP. His armor absorbs 2 HP, so he suffers only 1 DP and has 34 VI left.
3. BR:
Alrik: AT 3 -> success, Beggar: PA 15 -> failure
Alrik hits the Beggar at the upper body and deals 6 HP, the armor absorbs 2 HP, 4 DP pass through. The Beggar has 26 VI remaining.
Beggar: AT 4 -> success, Alrik: PA 12 -> success
4. BR:
Akrik AT 11 -> success, Beggar: PA 14 -> failure
Alrik hits the head, dealing 9 HP. Since the Beggar doesn't wear a helmet, he has no armor to reduce the damage and therefore takes 9 DP, leaving him with 15 VI.
Beggar: AT 3 -> success, Alrik: PA 6 -> success
5. BR:
Alrik AT 1, 4 -> lucky crit, Beggar: PA 17 -> failure
Alrik hits the Beggar's upper body and deals 2 x 7 = 14 HP. The jerkin reduces the damage by 2 TP, so Alrik deals 12 DP. The remaining VI of the Beggar is 3.
Impressed by this attack, the Beggar drops his dagger, turns around and runs like hell.
VICTORY FOR ALRIK!
II) Calculating combat values
This is by far the most difficult part of the TDE system. Okay, ready everyone? Take a deep breath - once you understood this, the rest is a cakewalk!
For combat values, many numbers are important:
AT base, PA base, RC base, TAV in used weapon skill, weapon modifier, effective encumbrance For ranged combat there is still some modifiers like target size and range - but let's focus on melee weapons first.
It is important to read carefully! I will explain the different ways of parry with some examples at the end of the post.
The formula for calculating the AT value is:
AT base
+ weapon talent TAV used for AT
+/- weapon and shield modifier
- every even point of effective encumbrance
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on)
The formula for calculating weapon parry:
PA base
+ weapon talent TAV used for PA
+/- weapon modifier
- every uneven point of effective encumbrance
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on)
The formula for shield parry:
PA base
+ shield modifier
+ level of shield fighting * 2
- every uneven point of effective encumbrance
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on)
The formula for dodge:
PA base
+ level of dodge * 2
- every(!) point of effective encumbrance
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on)
What is this "weapon talent TAV"?
-> The amount of TAV spend on AT or PA when increasing the TAV of the weapon style. Be careful, you cannot re-distribute those points. Think before allocating them!
In general, the difference of allocated points between AT and PA may never be higher than 5:
A warrior with TAV 7 therefore may allocate his points like this: 6/1, 5/2, 4/3, 3/4, 2/5, 1/6, but not 7/0 or 0/7.
Please note that this does only affect the points allocated - AT and PA values in combat may have a higher difference than 5!
What is the weapon modifier (WM)?
-> A modifier that is used to alter attack and weapon (and only weapon!) parry.
A sledgehammer has a WM of -2/-4, the using character will suffer -2 on his AT value and -4 on his defense value in combat.
Alrike uses a rusty axe with WM 0/-3, she fights with a shield. Her weapon parry is reduced by -3, but as long as she uses shield parry, this is totally unimportant for her.
What is "effective encumbrance" (eEC)?
-> The amount of accumulated encumbrance
The formula is: encumbrance from armor and carried weight - level of armor use * 1 - eEC modifier of current wielded weapon
The eEC modifier for weapons ranges from 0 (brawling, no point may be ignored) to -4 (for maces and axes, up to four points may be ignored)
BTW, the remaining eEC is not subtracted equally: The first point will not reduce AT and PA by -0.5, but rather PA by -1, the second will reduce AT by -1, the third again PA (and so forth).
Alrike wears leather armor with EC 3, she uses a dagger (eEC -1) - her eEC therefore is 2, she gets -1 to both AT and PA.
If she had the ability "armor user I", her eBE would be reduced to 1, she would only suffer -1 to PA. If she had learned "armor user II" or would use a mace (eEC -4), she wouldn't suffer any penalty at all.
So for shield parry, my weapon PA value is totally unimportant?
-> Exactly, shield parry just uses your PA base and the "shield fighter I-III" ability to improve.
Now let's calculate some combat values:
Mercenary Alrike has an AT and PA base of 8, her "swords" TAV is 12, she allocated the points evenly (6/6), her weapon of choice is a sword of war (WM 0/0, eEC -2), she wears no armor.
Her AT value in combat is:
AT base -> 8
+ weapon talent TAV used for AT -> +6
+/- weapon and shield modifier -> 0
- every even point of effective encumbrance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on) -> 0
8+6+0-0+0=14
Her weapon PA value is:
PA base -> 8
+ weapon talent TAV used for PA -> 6
+/- weapon modifier -> 0
- every uneven point of effective encumbrance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on) -> 0
8+6+0-0+0=14
Since she uses no shield, no shield parry is possible.
Dodge value:
PA base -> 8
+ level of dodge * 2 -> 0
- every(!) point of effective encumbrance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on)
8+0-0=8
Therefore she has and AT/PA value of 14/14, dodge is 8.
Dwarven soldier Gandrosch, Son of Dorgrimm has an AT and PA base of 8, his TAV "Maces and axes" is 13, allocated 9/4. He fights with a battle axe (WM 0/-1, eEC -4) and a wooden shield (WM -1/3), he wears a chainmail with EC 4 and has learned "shield fighter I".
AT value:
AT base -> 8
+ weapon talent TAV used for AT -> +9
+/- weapon and shield modifier -> -1
- every even point of effective encumbrance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on) -> 0
8+9-1-0+0=16
Weapon PA:
PA base -> 8
+ weapon talent TAV used for PA -> +4
+/- weapon modifier -> -1
- every uneven point of effective encumbrance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on) -> 0
8+4-1-0=11
Shield PA:
PA base -> 8
+ shield modifier -> +3
+ level of shield fighting * 2 -> +2
- every uneven point of effective encumbrance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on)
8+3+2-0=13
Dodge:
PA base
+ level of dodge * 2
- every(!) point of effective encumbrance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on)
8+0-0=8
Mayana Moonharp is an elven warrior with AT and PA base 9, she has a spear TAV of 15 (allocated 10/5) and uses a wooden spear (WM -1/-3, eEC -2), in addition she wears an elvish leather jerkin (EC1). She has learned dodge I-III.
AT value:
AT base -> 9
+ weapon talent TAV used for AT -> +10
+/- weapon and shield modifier -> -1
- every even point of effective encumbrance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on) -> 0
10+9-1-0+0=18
Weapon PA:
PA base -> 9
+ weapon talent TAV used for PA -> +5
+/- weapon modifier -> -3
- every uneven point of effective encumbrance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on) -> 0
9+5-3-0=11
Shield PA:
Not possible
Dodge:
PA base -> 9
+ level of dodge * 2 -> 6
- every(!) point of effective encumbrance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on)
9+6-0=15
Knight Eberich of Ironstone has AT and PA base 9, he is a masterful swordsman with TAV 20 (allocated 10/10), he fights with a sword of war (WM 0/0, eEC -2), in addition, he carries an improved iron shield (-2/5). His armor is a full chainmail with helmet, greaves and bracers, adding 6 points of EC, he knows "shield fighter I" and "armor user I", so his effective encumbrance is 6-2-1=3.
AT value:
AT base -> 9
+ weapon talent TAV used for AT -> +10
+/- weapon and shield modifier -> 0 (-2 with shield)
- every even point of effective encumbrance -> 1
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on) -> 0
9+10-0-1+0=18 (without shield)
9+10-2-1+0=16 (with shield)
Weapon PA:
PA base -> 9
+ weapon talent TAV used for PA -> +10
+/- weapon modifier -> 0
- every uneven point of effective encumbrance -> -2
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on) -> 0
9+10-0-2=17
Shield PA:
PA base -> 9
+ shield modifier -> +5
+ level of shield fighting * 2 -> +2
- every uneven point of effective encumbrance -> -2
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on)
9+5+2-2=14
Dodge:
PA base -> 9
+ level of dodge * 2 -> 0
- every(!) point of effective encumbrance -> -3
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on)
8+0-3=5
Note: It might be possible that dodge actually ignores the weapon eEC reduction. Right now, I have no way to confirm - if you have a minute to spare, please test it!
Dashui on
Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
All weapons deal a certain amount of hit points (HP). Normally this will be one or two six sided dice plus a small bonus. Whenever you hit an enemy, Drakensang will roll the dice and determine the damage dealt.
Alrik uses a sword of war, the HP are 1D+4, so each attack will deal 5-10 HP.
Knight Eberich uses an Andergaster, a giant two-handed sword. This weapon deals 3D+2 HP, so every hit will deal 5-20 HP (average: 13)
In addition, every weapon has a ST modifier for damage. The first number shows the threshold, the second one the interval whenever another HP is added to the damage value of the weapon.
Gandrosch uses a mace with 1D+4 TP, ST modifier for this weapon is 14/2. For each 2 ST over 14, he will get an additional HP: with ST 16 the mace will deal 1D+5, with ST 18 it will deal 1D+6 (and so on).
However, ST modifiers work also the other way round:
The lanky elven maiden Elayoë uses Gandrosch's mace, but due to her low ST she gets a HP penalty: With ST 12, she would only deal 1D+3 HP, with ST 10 the damage would be reduced to 1D+2 (and so on).
Some weapons like daggers, spears, staves and fencing weapons have high ST intervals - so ST is rather unimportant for them. Others like one and two handed maces and axes have low intervals, so ST is very important.
In general weak characters should stick to the first kind, while strong fighters might want to pick some from the second category.
IV) Ranged combat
Ranged combat works like melee combat: The shooter determines his RC value and rolls a D20 to check if he hits the target.
Unlike weapon attacks, ranged weapons can only be dodged or shield parried (which is both hampered by a modifier (***))
The formula for RC value:
RC base
+ TAV from the ranged weapon
- effective encumbrance
+/- size modifier (shield users are considered smaller (***))
- number of persons in melee around the target*2 (***)
- miscellaneous modifiers
Please note: I have no idea about details of the ranged combat system, so the (***) above and the descriptions below are taken from my PnP experience!
What is the size modifier?
-> There are several size levels: tiny, very small, small, medium, large, very large. Humans are considered a medium sized target and give a +4 shot modifier, each level of bigger size reduces the modifier by -2, while each level of smaller size increase it by +2 each.
What about the number of persons in melee?
-> Honestly, no idea. In the PnP version you get a +2 penalty for every person fighting around your target - but is it the same in Drakensang? I really doubt it...
Miscellaneous modifiers?
-> Being attacked in melee by an enemy may give additional modifiers, as well as shields which reduce the target size by 1-2 levels.
V) Sword and Shield - choosing your weapon
You should decide early which weapon and defense skills you want your character to learn. In general every character should have at least 1 weapon talent and 1 defense ability maxed.
i) Ways to parry:
There are three different ways to parry an attack:
1) Weapon parry
Pro: Effective on high weapon TAV, benefits from WM, no special abilities needed, can reach good PA values early on by allocating weapon TAV to defense, cheap to enhance
Con: High PA allocations result in low AT values, some weapons (esp. two-handed ones) have very bad WM, can't parry ranged weapons and some kind of attacks (fire breath of a dragon, etc.), only valid for the used weapon talent
2) Shield parry
Pro: One additional parry allowed per round (with SF I), ignores WM (in general there are much more weapons with WM malus than with WM bonus), makes ranged combat versus character more difficult, allows early AT maximization, makes it possible to wield many weapons even with low TAV effectively
Con: Weapon parry may be a bit better in very late game, needs instructor to be taught, requires good shields (which will not allow spell casting except for the story gear), more costly ducat wise than weapon parry, some attacks cannot be parried (breath of a dragon), needs high ST
3) Dodge
Pro: Allows parrying almost all attacks, independent from weapon TAV, doesn't need any items, allows to maximize AT early
Con: Needs high AG, very bad development and maximal parry values (16-17 max), suffers vastly from encumbrance
In the end it all comes down to personal preference. But allow me to add some subtle comments from my side:
Weapon parry: Very dependent from your weapon. Wooden hammer with -2/-4 sucks, floret with 0/+1 rules. Not as important as in PnP, since AT and PA values above 20 barely matter in Drakensang. Still, the only valid choice for tin-can two-handed weapon wielders. If you focus on one weapon class it is cheaper both AP and money wise, but since enhancement is restricted by character level, shield combat gives you betters stats, esp in the early game.
Shield parry: My favorite! The most important part of the shield: The second parry! Defense against ranged weapons! How many times are you surrounded by 3-4 rats - and here the second shield parry will save your day! Enemy archers ahead? Well, you got your shield!
Shields give you the option to develop multiple melee skills - just increase TAV to 5 and allocate all points into AT, shield parry will do the trick on defense Yes, it is more costly than weapon parry - but you can find good shields quite early in the game. Just take the improved iron shield (-2/5), add SF II (+4) and with PA base 9 you have reached PA 18 and almost maxed your defense Just fire defensive combat I when needed - and here you go. Only problem: Casters can only use wooden shields (-1/3), so they might need defensive combat II to get max defense in melee. Still, better than weapon parry for them.
Dodge: Bad? No, horrible! A lousy +2 bonus per dodge ability is way to small to make this one worthwhile in battle. Only race that might find this one useful is the elves who can get +4 dodge via spellcasting(***) - and even then they shouldn't get any encumbrance If I had to decide between thick armor and dodge, I would always prefer armor and go shield parry instead.
ii) Weapon classes
Important for the modern fighter. Please note that I have no idea which classes get cool magic uber weapons!
So don't blame me if you find the "Sword of demigod destruction 10D+15" and skilled maces/axes because of this FAQ...
Class: Weapon class
Basic: Available from start?
Cost: Enhancement cost
eEC: Effective encumbrance
Abilities: Important higher tier abilities that can be used with this weapon
Pro: Advantage of this weapon class
Con: Disadvantage of this weapon class
Conclusion: A statement from me
Brawling
Basic: Yes
Cost: C (low)
eEC: 0
Abilities: only Master parry
Pro: cheap both AP and ducat wise, no weapon needed
Con: very low damage, no abilities except Master parry, no weapon parry possible, no eEC bonus
Conclusion: Useless. Unless you look for a real challenge and want win the game without any weapon.
Daggers
Basic: Yes
Cost: D (medium)
eEC:-1
Abilities: Mortal Blow
Pro: Basic, no ST needed
Con: very low eEC, low damage, no Mighty Blow abilities
Conclusion: Better than Brawling - but does that mean much? Keep away if possible.
Sabres
Basis: Yes
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -2
Abilities: Windmill
Pro: Base talent, mostly good WM, no high ST needed
Con: No Strike of Wrath, no Lunge
Conclusion: Good 1H weapon talent for non-fighters in the early game. Later swords are better IMO, but I am sure you will find a magic sabre - so an okay option for one of your characters.
Swords
Basis: No
Cost: E (high)
eEC: -2
Abilities: Windmill, Roundhouse (not the Chuck Norris (TM) one), no high ST required
Pro: Versatile , mostly good WM
Con: costly (ducat and AP wise), No Strike of Wrath, no Mortal Blow
Conclusion: A good skill for characters with mediocre strength and shield fighter skills. Don't have to mention that the magic sword is the archetype of any magic weapon, do I?
Fencing Weapons
Basic: No
Cost: E (high)
eEC: -1
Abilities: Mortal Blow, Windmill
Pro: Probably best WM around, no ST needed, at least 1 good magic weapon confirmed
Con: Expensive (ducat and AP wise), low eEC, no Mighty Blow abilities
Conclusion: IMO the best skill for 1H weapon fighters (or mages?) without a shield. Can deliver mortal blows which is really nice, fighters with shield should stick to swords instead, but one character with this is always good for the party since you will get a nice weapon in the early midgame.
Maxes and Axes
Basic: Yes
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -4
Abilities: Strike of Wrath, Windmill, Roundhouse (not the Chuck Norris (TM) one)
Pro: Basic, excellent eEC, benefits from high ST
Contra: No upper tier feint abilities, requires decent ST to use effectively, rather bad PA WM
Conclusion: The ideal weapon for shield using tanks and heavily armored fighters. ST bonus can be very nice in later game when you get ST improving items and magic. My favorite! Doesn't do that well against high PA enemies, but since they are rare in Drakensang (let me recall - did I ever see one? Nope, AFAIK not...) - don't care about that.
Staves
Basic: No
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -2
Abilities: Windmill, Roundhouse (not the Chuck Norris (TM) one), Rush
Pro: Versatile, possible distance bonus vs. low range weapons (???) (***), no ST required, good WM
Con: 2H-weapon, no higher tier feint abilities, no Strike of Wrath
Conclusion: A versatile weapon for defensive orientated characters - mages & alike. Main advantage over spears is the better WM. You will get at least 2 nice staffs during the game, so one character with this would be nice - if you can handle the enemy numbers.
Spears
Basic: No
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -3
Abilities: Mortal Strike, Rush
Pro: Good eEC, no ST required, possible distance bonus vs. low range weapons (???) (***), can Mortal Strike
Contra: 2H-weapon, no Mighty Blow attacks, often bad WM, no good spears during the early game
Conclusion: Messed up in Drakensang. More offensive than Staves, but the lack of Mighty Blow maneuvers sucks. No really good weapons can be found in early game - and even later, spears tend to have bad WM. But maybe the waiting is worth it and you get a super-duper dragon killer spear later, who knows? But really, spears are pity in Drakensang. Too bad, since I really like this weapon class. In PnP you can use them with shields once you have ST 15+ (Sparta style) - and there you can even use them as throwing weapons. Not to mention the cool tacking ability that is missing here... *sob* Oh well, I guess if I ever finish the game I will try an elven warrior with spear and dodge... Bwahahaha...
2H-Maxes and Axes
Basic: No
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -3
Abilities: Strike of Wrath, Roundhouse (not the Chuck Norris (TM) one), Windmill
Pro: Good eEC, high damage, benefits from high ST
Con: 2H-weapon, no feint abilities whatsoever, very bad WM, ST needed
Conclusion: For the damage dealing tin can. The WM of these weapons is probably the worst in the game (even spears can't beat that), even on high TAV a solid defense is impossible. The lack of feint makes it a very bad choice against enemies with good PA (again - did i ever see one?!). Like one handed maces and axes this one greatly benefits from boosted ST.
2H-Swords
Basic: No
Cost: E (high)
eEC: -2
Abilities: Strike of Wrath, Roundhouse (not the Chuck Norris (TM) one), Windmill
Pro: Good damage, better WM than 2H-Maces and Axes, no high ST needed
Contra: 2H-weapon, costly (AP and ducat wise), no high tier feint abilities
Conclusion: Two handed weapon with better defense capability than 2H-Maces/Axes (and the ability to feint). Needs lower ST attributes, but also lower eEC and max damage in the later game.
Bow
Basic: No
Cost: E (high)
eEC: -3
Ability: Master Marksman
Pro: Low reload time, good damage per shot and round
Con: Costly (ducat and AP wise), needs ammo
Conclusion: #1 Ranged weapon, IMO way better than crossbows. Actually good for mages to do a Master Marksman shot as battle opening and starting to cast afterwards. Longbows have the ability to one-shot enemies with Master Marksman. And you get a few Tenobaal's feather arrows, with a nasty (+10?) damage bonus.
Crossbow
Basis: No
Cost: C (low)
eEC: -5
Abilities: Master Marksman
Pro: Cheap, very good eEC, good damage
Con: Long reload time
Conclusion: Can't think of a reason why to choose a crossbow over a bow. Yes, they are cheaper AP wise, but their potential is much lower than bows. And you will barely be able to fire a handful of shots in combat anyway with their horrible reload time. And eEC does not really matter for ranged combat anyway...
Throwing Weapons
Basis: Yes
Cost: C (low)
eEC: -2
Ability: Master Throw
Pro: Base talent, cheap
Con: Low damage, low range
Conclusion: Again, only a good weapon if you pick style of substance. Master throw may knock enemies down, but most of the time dealing wounds is better. But I guess the problem with these comes from the PnP version where all but the best throwing weapons are basically useless. Actually, you may survive about 10 throwing daggers in your chest if you wear thick clothings... And to hit, you have to get into point black range were an enemy with a spear can already impale you... Bah...
So, for one handed weapons, maces/axes are the weapons of choice for classic tanks with good armor, shield combat and high ST.
Swords, Sabres and Fencing weapons are more for all rounders and low ST characters, with swords being on the damage track and fencing weapons in the feinting/wounding one.
Daggers and brawling is useless
For two handed weapons, 2H-swords and 2H-maces/axes deal very high damage, with 2H-swords being a bit more balanced and 2H-maces/axes being very offensive.
Staves and Spears are versatile (esp. the spear with Rush and Mortal Blow), but unless the range bonus works I think they are not worth it...
For ranged weapons, bow is king. Only if you lack money or AP you should go for crossbows or throwing weapons - and trust me, you can spare those 1000 AP for them...
3) ENHANCEMENT
One of the most important changes between the 3rd and 4th edition (and similar systems like AD&D) is the new "buying point system" for character enhancement.
In the PnP version, levels have become totally unimportant - although they still play an important role in Drakensang. Instead of having to wait for the next level to increase your stats, you can now pay adventure points to buy improvements.
I) Levels
Levels in Drakensang are (unlike in PnP) important for the maximum possible TAV and allowed spell modifiers. The level of a character depends on his AP gained, not on the AP spent.
Formula for maximum talent value
MAX = regular* starting TAV + current character level*2 + 3
*this means just the plain starting value from race & class - spending your starting AP does not help at all!
Example: Elayoë starts with Plant Lore 2 and Human Nature -2.
At level 1, her max TAV are 2 + 2 + 3 = 7 and -2 + 2 + 3 = 3
At level 5, her max TAV are 2 + 10 + 3 = 15 and -2 + 10 + 3 = 11
For weapon talents and spells:
MAX = regular starting TAV + current character level + 3
Alrik starts with swords 4 and daggers 0.
On level 1, his max TAV are 4 + 1 + 3 = 8 and 0 + 1 + 3 = 4
On level 5, his max TAV are 4 + 5 + 3 = 12 and 0 + 5 + 3 = 8
As you can see it is quite important to choose classes with good starting TAV if you want to become a grandmaster.
II) Costs
All talents, spells and attributes have a learning difficulty reaching from A (very easy) to H (extremely difficult). The higher the difficulty, the more AP you will have to spend increasing the talent.
All regular talents except for body and weapon will use cost factor B (easy), body will use D (medium), weapons reach from C (rather easy) to E (difficult).
Example:
To raise a B talent from 10 to 11 you need 28 AP, a D talent will cost you 55 AP, an E talent 70 AP.
VI and AE use difficulty factor G (very difficult). The first points may be cheap (8 for the first buy), but the 10th will already costs you 250 AP!
Attributes are the most costly ones, using factor H (extremely difficult) and usually cost from 300-600 AP per point.
I am very sorry, but due to copyright issues I cannot provide you with a full sheet of the enhancement costs. If you got hold of the basic rule set (was part as PDF of the German version), you can find it on page 198.
III) What should I improve?
In general, it is a good idea to max at least one combat talent, other talents should be enhanced depending on play style and game progress.
In general a TAV of 7 equals roughly 80% chance of success for your talent (with decent attributes), so this is the lowest value were you might want to improve all talents you want to use.
Talents can be put in several categories:
MAX talents: Talents that are frequently used, suffer heavy difficult penalties, get huge benefits per TAV point or are used for combat. They should always be maxed asap.
For Drakensang this are: Pick locks, disarm traps, willpower (prevents wounds), all combat talents, frequently used spells and - if you want to use it - haggle.
REG talents: Talents that just need enough TAV to compensate mediocre difficulty penalties and do not really benefit from TAP*:
Perception, plant lore, animal lore, survival, treat poison, treat wounds, seduce, etiquette, human nature, fast talk. These talents should be raised to TAV 7-10. After the swamps you might want to increase them to 12-15.
MIN talents: Talents were no skill checks are made or that do not benefit from TAP* at all:
Blacksmith, bowyer, alchemy, some spells like Flim Flam (light spell for the mage), Attributo (stat increasing spell for less important attributes like AG, DE and IN) or the elvish animal summon spell.
Some talents should only be learned by characters left behind in Ardo's mansion: arcane lore and - if you really don't want to spare the AP - all artisan talents (except pick lock and disarm trap). Just train all these unwanted guys with them and only add them to group if you need the skills.
While body talents are useful for everyone (esp. sneaking - if you have one bad sneaker he might blow cover for the whole group), the others should in general not be trained to more than one character. There is no benefit in raising two character's seduce talent to 15.
It is a wise idea to raise VI and AE 1-3 times during the early game, maxing your combat talents has highest priority.
Attributes should be raised rather late (from up to 4000 AP).
However, there are two exceptions:
First, raise attributes like CO and ST when you just need one point to get important combat abilities like shield fighter I/II/III, Windmill, Mortal Strike and so on.
Raise attributes if a single point will improve your AT, PA or RC base value.
Later on you might want to max ST to get maximum weapon damage from weapons, esp. (2H) maces and axes. As a little something extra, every two points will increase your VI by 1.
CN is another good choice for fighters, although it is not needed for many talents: each point adds +1 vitality, increases wound threshold by 1 and makes you more resilient to poison and illness.
For lock pickers increased DE is a valid option, but throughout the game you will find many magic items that enhance DE - a value higher than 14 or 15 is usually not needed.
Unlike in the PnP version, you should not raise other attributes, simply because there are too few talents connected to them. In PnP, there are like 30 talents bound to CL, but in Drakensang, there is really no need to boost this attribute.
As a reminder: A single attribute point increases your chances of success for the related talents by roughly 2,5%, while adding a point of TAV gives you ~7% for a fraction of the AP cost.
IV) Special abilities
Every character should get the tier 1 skills except for the rather useless Master Parry:
Feint and Mighty Blow make combat much easier, even if you just fight for self defense
Learn offensive combat I & defensive combat I asap.
These abilities can be fired up to give a +2 bonus to either attack or defense while draining a minimum amount of endurance - very useful throughout the whole game!
Now you might think bout getting level II & III. On word: DON'T! They are costly, require many endurance per round when fired up - and you will have better use for that later anyway. Beside: there is no benefit from raising your AT or PA above 19 - which you already reach in the early mid game. Non combat characters with low PA might want to learn defensive combat II and that's an okay, esp. for mages.
I highly recommend using a shield with every character to deal with enemy numbers, so for me shield fighter I/II/III is a must-have for the whole party.
Once you got combat abilities, getting endurance I/II/III is a good choice
When encumbrance from armor starts to rise above eEC, get armor user I/II/III.
Melee fighters should get Roundhouse (not the Chuck Norris (TM) one) to deal with many foes quickly. Strike of Wrath and Mortal Blow are king for the later game.
Ranged characters should learn marksman & master marksman asap, endurance is very helpful.
In general around 6000-8000 AP your party should have maxed AT and PA values to 19/19 and use shields with the highest available level of SU.
I hope you guys find it useful. I know I did, at least in what I should focus on. Now my head isn't drowning in choices and the agony of. I didn't read much on the mechanics and rolls sections, though, and mostly stat distribution/abilities/weapons. I'd love to read some comments and opinions on the whole guide, of course.
Dashui on
Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
0
Sir CarcassI have been shown the end of my worldRound Rock, TXRegistered Userregular
BSOD? So you have Vista? And it's not a drivers problem? I don't have Vista so I don't know what to tell you. Try the official forums. Try the demo, maybe it's limited to your install. Also I can upload a save and see if you can load it, maybe it's just the start.
No, it's XP. I looked around the forums but didn't see anything. I'll try the demo.
What is your video card? If you drivers are up to date, have you tried rolling them back a version? I'm running Vista32 and have had no such problems.
I have a 6800 Ultra. My computer barely meets the minimum specs, but it does meet them. I actually had the previous video drivers installed at first. After the crashes, I upgraded them to the newest version, but no change.
My system is a Intel 2 Dual Core 2 GHZ, but then I have 1 Gig of RAM and a ATI Radeon x1400 mobility. I don't know how that compares to your NVidia, but it's not the greatest machine and there's no problems.
I've got 1.5GB of RAM. Not sure how the ATI compares to the nvidia, but there's no hard requirements for video card, and the developers said it should run on a 6xxx series nvidia, as the game needs Shader 3.0. The 6800 Ultra is the high end 6xxx, so it should be fine. I can run Fallout 3 fine with it. The only area where I'm at the line is the processor. I have an Athlon 2400+, and the minimum is a P4 2.4GHz or equivalent AMD. A slow processor shouldn't cause it to blue screen though. I reformatted my computer about a month and a half ago and haven't had any stability problems at all until this game. I'm thinking it might be a sound issue, but I'm not sure.
Remember that you can only parry one attack each round (2 with a shield). This is why you can barely take any damage in a one-on-one fight, but are suddenly destroyed when outnumbered.
It also explains why it is a good idea to use special moves which ignore parry and inflict wounds to kill more powerful enemies instead of reducing their hitpoints to zero.
Remember that you can only parry one attack each round (2 with a shield). This is why you can barely take any damage in a one-on-one fight, but are suddenly destroyed when outnumbered.
It also explains why it is a good idea to use special moves which ignore parry and inflict wounds to kill more powerful enemies instead of reducing their hitpoints to zero.
That's actually another thing that frustrates me: if you want to go into combat against more than one opponent, you're forced to use a shield or rely on dodge.
Is there a list of the special moves out there, and what they're effects are?
I haven't been able to find any detailed information outside of that guide. The official English forum is pretty empty. But yeah, the system is pretty convoluted and confusing. I've been trying to read through the explanations of the rolls and shit but it's making my head hurt. I've only been able to gather what skills work and don't.
And it seems like very little is worth putting points into in this game, so a lot of characters are going to end up the same. By the end of my game, if I'm reading that guide correctly and decide to take its advice, most of my party members are going to have Shield III, Armor III, Endurance III, and to put a few points into CO and ST to get some of those combat attacks. I don't really have a problem with that, but it seems it's far too easy to royally fuck up your character. If you want someone who can actually win a fight, you don't have much leeway with stat distribution.
Dashui on
Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
BSOD? So you have Vista? And it's not a drivers problem? I don't have Vista so I don't know what to tell you. Try the official forums. Try the demo, maybe it's limited to your install. Also I can upload a save and see if you can load it, maybe it's just the start.
No, it's XP. I looked around the forums but didn't see anything. I'll try the demo.
What is your video card? If you drivers are up to date, have you tried rolling them back a version? I'm running Vista32 and have had no such problems.
I have a 6800 Ultra. My computer barely meets the minimum specs, but it does meet them. I actually had the previous video drivers installed at first. After the crashes, I upgraded them to the newest version, but no change.
My system is a Intel 2 Dual Core 2 GHZ, but then I have 1 Gig of RAM and a ATI Radeon x1400 mobility. I don't know how that compares to your NVidia, but it's not the greatest machine and there's no problems.
I've got a 1.3ghz AthalonXP, 512mb RAM, and a 256mb RADEON 9550 Pro. No idea what the min reqs are, but I manage to run the game well enough to be playable.
Arrath on
0
FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
At low levels, dodge is much more viable. As you gain levels, your parry is going to rise above your dodge, thus making dodge useless. You only roll to dodge if your DV is higher than your PA... which is won't be eventually.
DO NOT give your spell casters more than Armour Use I. If you are wearing any sort of metal, you can't cast spells. This includes everything from brass greaves to iron shields. So, a spell caster can only wear leather anyway.. and more powerful/magical leather is going to have lower encumbrance anyway.
And yes, that guide is written by someone who is very familiar with the PNP version of TDE. Read it, but take away only bits and pieces as they are needed for yourself. Don't follow it to the letter, or you'll soon not be having much fun at all.
Drakensang is rather forgiving, so you don't need to optimize the PERFECT build for every character. Just do what you want to do with your characters, keeping in mind not to put points where they won't be used. For instance, don't start rising your DE and Dodge skill on a character who uses a shield and armour. He won't dodge.
If you find yourself at a point where you feel any of your characters are severely gimped, don't restart. There isn't much replay value here since the progression is 99.9% identical for each character you create. Go get a character editor. There are a few out there. Also don't go apeshit and start making your character the tits or you'll be in a worse situation--you won't have fun at all crushing through everything you see. Or maybe you will. Who knows.
The one I fucked around with for a bit messed up my money. I had maybe 120 D and it made me have 2 D when I used it. The problem was the "Money" tab in the editor listed it as "Gold." Putting that to 2400 gave me 50D.. so I don't know what that was about. I ended up reverting back to my old save game and deleting the editor, because I don't trust myself not to make my characters into tiny gods.
I wanted to give my Thief max swords instead of dagger, Gladys max staff, the amazon max spear.. etc. It started out as that. Then I started putting a few points in STR for everyone... then I gave them some combat skills.. why not? Then I gave them a higher base parry... etc etc. It was getting out of hand.
Posts
I realized that agility, strength & cleverness (or intuition) actually boosts attack, parry & dodge every 2 points or so. So I boost those 3 depending on what else I need.
I mean.. right now I do maybe 2-3 damage on a regular hit. I rely on my party members to really take down opponents. My thief is a money maker and smooth talker.
Sacrificing those utility skills for combat related stats seems silly... if you want a damage dealer why not just make a damage dealer?
He manages fairly well with pick locks and trap detection and trap deactivation. The big problem is that my burglar and Gladys have a tendency to get raped in combat so I desperatedly need some strategy to get their dodge or parry up. It's all derivative, I think I boosted strength up to 14 to get armor use, but it also brought dodge bonus and attack bonus. I might give Gladys shield fighting, I don't know. I admit that Gladys is really lacking as mage, she's more of a social character who can yield a sword and has a few protective magics. Eventually I want to give her a good leather armor set. As for my burglar, instead of having the maximum 19 perception his level allows, he has 15, not a big deal. The added 250 or so points for the difference go in combat.
Basically, combat is hard. I'm currently stuck again because I get killed in a fight against 5 soldiers.
edit : Also, something cool that I worried about. It doesn't matter who initiates conversation, all social skill opportunities will show up during the dialog. (so for example you initiate talk with burglar, butyou have the chance to use Amazon's intimidate(I don't even know what triggers that) and Gladys's seduction)
I agree she seems rather useless, so once I get her again I am going to try to retool her into something useful... like a buffer or something stupid. I know I'll get a real magic user at some point, so a healer might be a good fit for her. I forget her stats though.
Right now my thief dodges most of the time, and I'm usually able to pull mobs off him with the amazon if need be. The only time I have actually died was
At one point he says, "I don't want to ruin the 80-something hour story for you but.." and then he proceeds to list some fucking plot elements. It's not difficult to write reviews without spoiling story points.. it really isn't. I don't know why some idiots can't get the hang of it.
The review bashes the game for the combat system, saying the presentation is lacking because the rolls are "under the hood." Well, you can bring up the log to see rolls if you like, and the combat presentation is pretty good for a turned-based system. Animations look great, the characters do random little things every now and then.. bah. In the screenshots with the review, the guy's hotbars were virtually empty. Methinks he just didn't know how to play the damn game.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9218642&type=product&id=1218061322484
30 god damn dollars, sir.
Yeah some things are not explained, for example for quick skills just press 1 or 3 etc it saves you the time you need to target the skill. Or WASD makes movement more fluid. The game lacks the typical holding by the hand every game today has, but a fully functioning human can experiment, fail and try again and pretty quickly the game is a great time.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
I couldn't tell you, as I don't know much about Dark Eye.
If you're into D&D it's fairly similar in that you have checks and skills and what not.. but it seems far more convoluted in that regard if you ask me.
German magazines rated the game around 60-80%, and it's a german game, meaning that it gets the patriot bonus (like say, the Gothic or Sacred series, all in the 90% area). Many fans on the boards were generally displeased with the game from what I gathered close after the release, believing it to be not on par with the Nordland trilogy (the three previous games in the series from the 90s). Personally, I think the IGN score is pretty accurate, but he raised some silly point while leaving out other, more grave issues with the game.
BSOD? So you have Vista? And it's not a drivers problem? I don't have Vista so I don't know what to tell you. Try the official forums. Try the demo, maybe it's limited to your install. Also I can upload a save and see if you can load it, maybe it's just the start.
A lot of reviews are above the 80 area, your statement is innacurate. Also what are these "serious" problems? All I see are a few areas of improvement with more time and money, it was developed at a low price.
And Sir Carcass:
What is your video card? If you drivers are up to date, have you tried rolling them back a version? I'm running Vista32 and have had no such problems.
If it's anything like the PnP version (or at least what I've read on it; I've never played "The Dark Eye"), it's a "roll low" system, so that minuses are bonuses and pluses are penalties. Also, skill checks use three rolls against the target number (using three different stats), using the best result (or the best two? not really sure).
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
Then yes, that's exactly how this works.
Well, "minuses are bonuses and pluses are penalties" is true in some aspects, but not all. A higher dodge is better, so bonuses to your dodge are pluses. You do want to roll low, though, if I understand it correctly.
Oh man.. don't wait. I started learning/upgrading spells for Gladys straight away and she's pretty damn good.
The attribute booster spells do give you quite an increase, but they only last for a few seconds. Her armour boost is self-only, but it lasts for several minutes.
I'm casting pillars of flame at fuckers like there's no tomorrow.
That buxom female who joins the PC looks angry and severly crosseyed. Also, aren't they holding their warhammers the wrong way around or am I just a retard? Get this shit on Steam and I'll buy it.
No, it's XP. I looked around the forums but didn't see anything. I'll try the demo.
I have a 6800 Ultra. My computer barely meets the minimum specs, but it does meet them. I actually had the previous video drivers installed at first. After the crashes, I upgraded them to the newest version, but no change.
That might be your trouble, then. "System requirements" are as far as it gets from an exact science, and having the minimum spot on is a recipe for disaster.
It's a fairly detailed explanation of the talent checks, combat system, spell system, and more.
I'm hoping to find a spellcaster who isn't useless, but so far there's nothing. Just me as a rogue, a fighter, an amazon, and an archer/cleric. We do alright for ourselves.
That archer/cleric is your spellcaster, and she's plenty useful if you squeeze her just right.
As of now, I have her wearing armour up to Enc 1 and a wooden shield. She's got that flame spell and thunder bolt both maxed out, as well as healing and buff spells.
I keep her on passive at all times, and I basically control her manually during fights. The rest of my party is melee based (Thief, the dwarf, the amazon) so I just switch to them for a quick ability now and again. Gladys hangs back and heals, debuffs, and damages as needed.
True, she doesn't pack as much punch as a pure damage caster would, but she can hold her own quite fine. With her armour self-buff she's fairly versitile.
Also, I just got the human warrior and holy crap he's awesome. Dwarf now gets the backseat.
About Dodge/Weapon Parry/Shield:
Shield parry: My favorite! The most important part of the shield: The second parry! Defense against ranged weapons! How many times are you surrounded by 3-4 rats - and here the second shield parry will save your day! Enemy archers ahead? Well, you got your shield!
Shields give you the option to develop multiple melee skills - just increase TAV to 5 and allocate all points into AT, shield parry will do the trick on defense. Yes, it is more costly than weapon parry - but you can find good shields quite early in the game. Just take the improved iron shield (-2/5), add SF II (+4) and with PA base 9 you have reached PA 18 and almost maxed your defense. Just fire defensive combat I when needed - and here you go. Only problem: Casters can only use wooden shields (-1/3), so they might need defensive combat II to get max defense in melee. Still, better than weapon parry for them.
Dodge: Bad? No, horrible! A lousy +2 bonus per dodge ability is way too small to make this one worthwhile in battle. Only race that might find this one useful is the elves who can get +4 dodge via spellcasting(***) - and even then they shouldn't get any encumbrance. If I had to decide between thick armor and dodge, I would always prefer armor and go shield parry instead.
Weapons:
Basic: Yes
Cost: C (low)
eEC: 0
Abilites: only Masterparry
Pro: cheap both AP and ducat wise, no weapon needed
Con: very low damage, no abilities except Masterparry, no weapon parry possible, no eEC bonus
Conclusion: Useless. Unless you look for a real challenge and want win the game without any weapon.
Daggers
Basic: Yes
Cost: D (medium)
eEC:-1
Abilities: Mortal Blow
Pro: Basic, no ST needed
Con: very low eEC, low damage, no Mighty Blow abilities
Conclusion: Better than Brawling - but does that mean much? Keep away if possible.
Sabres
Basis: Yes
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -2
Abilities: Windmill
Pro: Base talent, mostly good WM, no high ST needed
Con: No Strike of Wrath, no Lunge
Conclusion: Good 1H weapon talent for non-fighters in the early game. Later swords are better imo, but I am sure you will find a magic sabre - so an okay option for one of your characters.
Swords
Basis: No
Cost: E (high)
eEC: -2
Abilities: Windmill, Roundhouse (not the Chuck Norris (tm) one), no high ST required
Pro: Versatile , mostly good WM
Con: costly (ducat and AP wise), No Strike of Wrath, no Mortal Blow
Conclusion: A good skill for characters with mediocre strength and shield fighter skills. Don't have to mention that the magic sword is the archetype of any magic weapon, do I?
Fencing Weapons
Basic: No
Cost: E (high)
eEC: -1
Abilities: Mortal Blow, Windmill
Pro: Probably best WM around, no ST needed, at least 1 good magic weapon confirmed
Con: Expensive (ducat and AP wise), low eEC, no Mighty Blow abilities
Conclusion: The best skill for 1H weapon fighters (or mages?) without a shield. Can deliver mortal blows which is really nice, fighters with shield should stick to swords instead, but one character with this is always good for the party since you will get a nice weapon in the early midgame.
Maxes and Axes
Basic: Yes
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -4
Abilities: Strike of Wrath, Windmill, Roundhouse
Pro: Basic, excellent eEC, benefits from high ST
Contra: No upper tier feint abilities, requires decent ST to use effectively, rather bad PA WM
Conclusion: The ideal weapon for shield using tanks and heavily armored fighters. ST bonus can be very nice in later game when you get ST improving items and magic. My favorite! Doesn't do that well against high PA enemies, but since they are rare in Drakensang (let me recall - did I ever see one? Nope, afaik not...) - don't care about that.
Staves
Basic: No
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -2
Abilities: Windmill, Roundhouse, Rush
Pro: Versatile, possible distance bonus vs. low range weapons (???) (***), no ST required, good WM
Con: 2H-weapon, no higher tier feint abilities, no Strike of Wrath
Conclusion: A versatile weapon for defensive orientated characters - mages & alike. Main advantage over spears is the better WM. You will get at least 2 nice staffs during the game, so one character with this would be nice - if you can handle the enemy numbers.
Spears
Basic: No
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -3
Abilities: Mortal Strike, Rush
Pro: Good eEC, no ST required, possible distance bonus vs. low range weapons (???) (***), can Mortal Strike
Contra: 2H-weapon, no Mighty Blow attacks, often bad WM, no good spears during the early game
Conclusion: Messed up in Drakensang. More offensive than Staves, but the lack of Mighty Blow maneuvers sucks. No really good weapons can be found in early game - and even later, spears tend to have bad WM. But maybe the waiting is worth it and you get a super-duper dragonkiller spear later, who knows? But really, spears are pity in Drakensang. Too bad, since I really like this weapon class. In PnP you can use them with shields once you have ST 15+ (Sparta style) - and there you can even use them as throwing weapons. Not to mention the cool tacking ability that is missing here... *sob* Oh well, I guess if I ever finish the game I will try an elven warrior with spear and dodge... Bwahahaha...
2H-Maxes and Axes
Basic: No
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -3
Abilities: Strike of Wrath, Roundhouse, Windmill
Pro: Good eEC, high damage, benefits from high ST
Con: 2H-weapon, no feint abilities whatsoever, very bad WM, ST needed
Conclusion: For the damage dealing tin can. The WM of these weapons is probably the worst in the game (even spears can't beat that), even on high TAV a solid defense is impossible. The lack of feint makes it a very bad choice against enemies with good PA (again - did i ever see one?!). Like one handed maces and axes this one greatly benefits from boosted ST.
2H-Swords
Basic: No
Cost: E (high)
eEC: -2
Abilities: Strike of Wrath, Roundhouse, Windmill
Pro: Good damage, better WM than 2H-Maces and Axes, no high ST needed
Contra: 2H-weapon, costly (AP and ducat wise), no high tier feint abilities
Conclusion: Two handed weapon with better defense capability than 2H-Maces/Axes (and the ability to feint). Needs lower ST attributes, but also lower eEC and max damage in the later game.
Bow
Basic: No
Cost: E (high)
eEC: -3
Abiltiy: Master Marksman
Pro: Low reload time, good damage per shot and round
Con: Costly (ducat and AP wise), needs ammo
Conclusion: #1 Ranged weapon, way better than crossbows. Actually good for mages to do a Master Marksman shot as battle opening and starting to cast afterward. Longbows have the ability to one-shot enemies with Master Marksman. And you get a few Tenobaal's feather arrows, with a nasty (+10 iirc?) damage bonus.
Crossbow
Basis: No
Cost: C (low)
eEC: -5
Abilities: Master Marksman
Pro: Cheap, very good eEC, good damage
Con: Long reload time
Conclusion: Can't think of a reason why to choose a crossbow over a bow. Yes, they are cheaper AP wise, but their potential is much lower than bows. And you will barely be able to fire a handful of shots in combat anyway with their horrible reload time. And eEC does not really matter for ranged combat anyway...
Throwing Weapons
Basis: Yes
Cost: C (low)
eEC: -2
Ability: Master Throw
Pro: Base talent, cheap
Con: Low damage, low range
Conclusion: Again, only a good weapon if you pick style of substance. Master throw may knock enemies down, but most of the time dealing wounds is better. But I guess the problem with these comes from the PnP version where all but the best throwing weapons are basically useless. Actually, you may survive about 10 throwing daggers in your chest if you wear thick clothing... And to hit, you have to get into point black range were an enemy with a spear can already impale you... Bah...
So, for one handed weapons, maces/axes are the weapons of choice for classic tanks with good armor, shield combat and high ST.
Swords, Sabres and Fencing weapons are more for allrounders and low ST characters, with swords being on the damage track and fencing weapons in the feinting/wounding one.
Daggers and brawling is useless.
For two handed weapons, 2H-swords and 2H-maces/axes deal very high damage, with 2H-swords being a bit more balanced and 2H-maces/axes being very offensive.
Staves and Spears are versatile (esp. the spear with Rush and Mortal Blow), but unless the range bonus works I think they are not worth it...
For ranged weapons, bow is king. Only if you lack money or AP you should go for crossbows or throwing weapons - and trust me, you can spare those 1000 AP for them...
What to improve:
In general a TAV of 7 equals roughly 80% chance of success for your talent (with decent attributes), so this is the lowest value were you might want to improve all talents you want to use.
Talents can be put in several categories:
MAX talents: Talents that are frequently used, suffer heavy difficult penalties, get huge benefits per TAV point or are used for combat. They should always be maxed asap.
For Drakensang this are: Pick locks, disarm traps, willpower (prevents wounds), all combat talents, frequently used spells and - if you want to use it - haggle.
REG talents: Talents that just need enough TAV to compensate mediocre difficulty penalties and do not really benefit from TAP*:
Perception, plant lore, animal lore, survival, treat poison, treat wounds, seduce, etiquette, human nature, fast talk. These talents should be raised to TAV 7-10. After the swamps you might want to increase them to 12-15.
MIN talents: Talents were no skill checks are made or that do not benefit from TAP* at all:
Blacksmith, bowyer, alchemy, some spells like Flim Flam (light spell for the mage), Attributo (stat increasing spell for less important attributes like AG, DE and IN) or the elvish animal summon spell.
Some talents should only be learned by characters left behind in Ardo's mansion: arcane lore and - if you really don't want to spare the AP - all artisan talents (except pick lock and disarm trap). Just train all these unwanted guys with them and only add them to group if you need the skills.
While body talents are useful for everyone (esp. sneaking - if you have one bad sneaker he might blow cover for the whole group), the others should in general not be trained to more than one character. There is no benefit in raising two characters seduce talent to 15.
It is a wise idea to raise VI and AE 1-3 times during the early game, maxing your combat talents has highest priority.
Attributes should be raised rather late (from up to 4000 AP).
However, there are two exceptions:
First, raise attributes like CO and ST when you just need one point to get important combat abilities like shield fighter I/II/III, Windmill, Mortal Strike and so on.
Raise attributes if a single point will improve your AT, PA or RC base value.
Later on you might want to max ST to get maximum weapon damage from weapons, esp. (2H) maces and axes. As a little something extra, every two points will increase your VI by 1.
CN is another good choice for fighters, although it is not needed for many talents: each point adds +1 vitality, increases wound threshold by 1 and makes you more resilient to poison and illness.
For lock pickers increased DE is a valid option, but throughout the game you will find many magic items that enhance DE - a value higher than 14 or 15 is usually not needed.
Unlike in the PnP version, you should not raise other attributes, simply because there are too few talents connected to them. In PnP, there are like 30 talents bound to CL, but in Drakensang, there is really no need to boost this attribute.
As a reminder: A single attribute point increases your chances of success for the related talents by roughly 2,5%, while adding a point of TAV gives you ~7% for a fraction of the AP cost.
Special Abilities:
Feint and Mighty Blow make combat much easier, even if you just fight for self defense.
Learn offensive combat I & defensive combat I asap.
These abilities can be fired up to give a +2 bonus to either attack or defense while draining a minimum amount of endurance - very useful throughout the whole game!
Now you might think about getting level II & III. On word: DON'T! They are costly, require many endurance per round when fired up - and you will have better use for that later anyway. Beside: there is no benefit from raising your AT or PA above 19 - which you already reach in the early mid game. Non combat characters with low PA might want to learn defensive combat II and that's an okay, esp. for mages.
I highly recommend using a shield with every character to deal with enemy numbers, so for me shield fighter I/II/III is a must-have for the whole party.
Once you got combat abilities, getting endurance I/II/III is a good choice.
When encumbrance from armor starts to rise above eEC, get armor user I/II/III.
Melee fighters should get Roundhouse to deal with many foes quickly. Strike of Wrath and Mortal Blow are king for the later game.
Ranged characters should learn marksman & master marksman asap, endurance is very helpful.
In general around 6000-8000 AP your party should have maxed AT and PA values to 19/19 and use shields with the highest available level of SU.
So basically:
Everyone should get shields to tier III (the exception being mages where shields disable their spellcasting?), as well as Endurance I, II, and III.
Swords, sabres, and fencing weapons are good for low ST, all around type characters and staves/axes are good for the shield and armor fighters.
Max willpower, combat talents, and frequently used spells.
Raise VI and AE only one to three times during the early game.
Attributes should be raised late except for CO and ST when purchasing combat abilities, and CN is a good skill for fighters, whereas DE is valid for lock pickers but not beyond 14 or 15. Do not raise other attributes beyond the ones listed, as there are too few talents connected to them.
Feint and Mighty Blow are important, and learn Offensive and Defensive Combat I ASAP. Do not get tiers II and III, as they are costly and require too much endurance per round.
Get Armor Use I, II, and III when encumbrance from armor starts to rise above eEC (effective encumbrance). I don't quite understand the eEC all that well, though. It sounds like in the end, almost everyone should get Armor Use along with Shields. I'm also not quite sure what TAV means.
I might remake my character now, since I put points into shit I probably shouldn't have. I don't know if I'll go with a warrior this time or remake my rogue. If I do remake my rogue, it sounds like getting shield and perhaps armor use should be a priority.
I guess after reading the guide the overwhelming sense of stat distribution is gone. Attributes really shouldn't be touched unless you need them for acquiring the combat abilities. I should keep willpower high maxed for everyone, and disarm traps/pick locks should be maxed for my rogue if I remake him. Things like treat wounds and treat poison should be around TAV 7-10 and after the swamps TAV 13-15, but like I said, what's TAV? So in the end you're mostly spending points on a very small amount of items instead of the huge sheet of choices in front of you, mostly combat abilities?
My system is a Intel 2 Dual Core 2 GHZ, but then I have 1 Gig of RAM and a ATI Radeon x1400 mobility. I don't know how that compares to your NVidia, but it's not the greatest machine and there's no problems.
True, but Drakensang is so heavily reliant on stats, almost bordering on (or beyond) convoluted, that it's quite easy to get overwhelmed and screw up your character. It's hard to know just what you should put points into, and that guide helps to point you in the right direction.
There's nothing wrong with going a different path than the guide which you think will be more fun (spears instead of the recommended swords/maces/axes), but what about the expensive attributes? Courage, Cleverness, Intuition, Charisma, Dexterity, Agility, Constitution, and Strength? Just where should I put my points? Is it worth it to increase this or that? They are expensive, after all, and the game doesn't make it clear exactly how these things tie together or what's important for your class, etc.
Anyways, I only posted the sections of the guide I thought were the most important to me. I'll paste the whole guide in this thread in a few minutes. It was written by a non-Native English speaker, so there are a lot of grammar and spelling mistakes. I thought I had corrected them all with OpenOffice, but I must have screwed up and didn't save it properly. I'm going to go through it again and then paste it soon. Of course, I could just link you, but wouldn't you rather a version gone through a spell checker?
von sajin's Guide Part One
0) Welcome
1) How does the TDE system work?
I) Attributes
II) Base Values
III) Talent- and Spell checks
2) The combat system
I) How does the combat system work?
II) Calculating combat values
III) Hit points and ST bonus
IV) Ranged combat
V) Sword and Shield - choosing your weapon
i) Ways to parry
ii) Weapon classes
3) Enhancement
I) Levels
II) Costs
III) What should I improve?
IV) Special abilities
0) WELCOME!
You are new to the world of The Dark Eye, you have bought Drakensang and now your are a bit clueless how some game mechanics or rules work?
Well, no worries! I play the pen and paper version of TDE for more than 8 years now - and I learn something new at every session.
The following FAQ contains the most important facts about the game mechanics.
Side Note 1:
The PnP system from TDE is much more complicated than the Drakensang system, but I have no complete overview on the changes made for the computer Version. Therefore, there are parts in this FAQ where I am not 100% sure if my statements are correct. I will mark these with three red stars ***.
Side Note 2:
Since I am a non-native English speaker, this text will contain several spelling and grammar mistakes, as well as partially wrong translated in-game terms from the German version. Your help to fix them is appreciated!
1) HOW DOES THE TDE SYSTEM WORK?
TDE is a so-called "3D20" dice roll system, pretty much focused on single or triple 20-sided dices. These are mostly used to check attributes.
Every character has 8 attributes, usually reaching from 8-20:
I)Attributes
CO - Courage
CL - Cleverness
IN - Intuition
CH - Charisma
DE - Dexterity
AG - Agility
CN - Constitution
ST - Strength
If a character uses a talent or casts a spell, three 20-sided dice are rolled to see if he is successful. This is called talent check and spell check.
However, before I can elaborate on these, I have to explain another bunch of numbers:
II) Base Values
This are basic values calculated from attributes and mostly needed for combat. Unfortunately, the character sheet does often not show the real base value, but rather a total value from: base value +/- racial modifier +/- class modifier +/- bonuses/penalties modifier.
AT base: (CO+AG+ST)/5
Attack base is the basic AT value for all melee weapons.
Even if your character hast never learned how to use sabres (Talent Value TAV 0), he may still wield the weapon with this basic attack value. AT base is important for many offensive combat abilities.
PA base: (IN+AG+ST)/5
Parry base is the basic value for all kinds of defensive actions: Weapon parry, shield parry and even dodge. Some defensive combat abilities require a certain amount of PA base.
RC base: (IN/DE/ST)/5
Ranged combat base is the basic attack value for all ranged weapons. Some ranged combat abilities require a certain amount of RC base.
Vitality: (CN+CN+ST)/2
The vitality of a character, showing how many hit points it can take before dying. As you might guess: The more, the merrier!
The real base value cannot be seen, only the total value. However, the calculation works, since every point of CN gives you +1 to vitality.
In general, dwarfs and fighting professions have a bonus to vitality, while elves and spell casters suffer a malus.
Endurance: (CO+CN+AG)/2
The endurance of a character, needed for almost all combat abilities.
Real base value is not shown, only total value can be seen.
Astral Energy: (CO+IN+CH)/2
Used for casting spells. Works like "mana" from other systems.
Again, only the total value is shown.
Resist Magic: (CO+CL+CN)/5
Protects from enemy spells by reducing the effective talent value (TAV) of the spell caster.
Only total value is shown. In general, thorwals have reduced RM, while spell casters, elves and dwarfs have increased RM.
Wound Threshold: (CN) ***
The amount of hit points a character can suffer without getting wounded. Hit points > CN will result in one wound, HP > 2xCN will result in two wounds (and so on).
Raising CN will automatically increase the WT of your character.
(Note: In the PnP Version, WT is only CN/2. I have no idea if it is in fact CN or CN/2 in Drakensang.)
III) Talent- and Spell checks:
As said above, when using a spell or talent, the game rolls three D20 on the required talents. If the roll is smaller or equal the attribute, everything is fine. However, if it is higher, the game will use points from your talent value (TAV) to reduce the rolled number down to your attribute value.
Example: Alrik has DE 12 and IN 12, his TAV "Disarm Traps" is 10, he tries to disarm a neat indy trap in the dungeon of black mage Gerwulf:
He rolls on DE/DE/IN, so thats 12/12/12 for his attributes.
The dice show: DE12, DE15, IN 3. The first roll is still equal to his attributes, all fine. For the second, he has to use 3 points from his TAV 10 to reduce it down to 12. The third is lower than twelve and fine again.
All remaining talent points at the end of a talent check are called "TaP*". If the TaP* are 0+, the talent check is considered successful.
Example: Alrik from above has 10 (TAV) - 3 (reduction for second talent check roll) = 7 TaP* after the talent check.
What you have to consider is that difficult actions are penalized with a positive modifier, reducing your TAV for that talent check. If your TAV is reduced below 0, every roll must be that much lower than your attribute!
Example: Alrik tries to disarm a really difficult trap (+15 modifier), his TAV is 10. So his effective TAV for this talent check is: 10 (TAV) - 15 (difficult trap modifier) = -5. Every roll of his skill check must be five points below his attributes (12/12/12) - not a single one may exceed 7 or the skill check will fail! Well, good luck, Alrik!
On the other hand, tools can give your character a negative modifier which can be used to reduce bad dice rolls. However, TaP* can never be higher than your regular TAV.
Another side note: Two or three "1" rolled will always result in a successful talent check, while two or three "20" always result in a failure.
Ain't nothing better than rolling two twenties in PnP while your character is climbing up a hundred meter high cliff... Ouch...
Note: Since the devs seem to hate failures, there are some talents and spells in Drakensang that will never fail, but rather have 0 TaP* instead: The "light" spell for mages is such an example.
Now, let's have a look at that with some examples:
Alrik wants to do some lock picking on chests. He has DE 15 and IN 14, his TAV "Pick Locks" is 15, the talent check is on DE/DE/IN - 15/15/14.
The first chest has an easy lock, so the talent check isn't modified. Alrik uses a hair pin, which adds +1 to his TAV (Don't confuse this with the difficulty modifier - here +1 is a good thing. Yeah, I know, totally counter intuitive...). His effective TAV therefore is 15 (TAV) + 1 (hairpin) = 16
Drakensang rolls: DE12, DE15, IN18.
The first two rolls are smaller or equal his DE, so there is no need to spend talent points. The third roll (18) is 4 above his IN value, so he has to spend 4 talent points to reduce it.
So in the end Alrik has: 15 (TAV) + 1 (hair pin) - 4 (roll reduction) = 12 TaP* - the lock is open!
The second chest has a better lock, the talent check is modified by +10. Alrik decides to use one of his lock picks (TAV +5).
For this check, his TAV thus is: 15 (TAV) - 10 (difficulty) + 5 (tools) = 10
Drakensang rolls: DE19 DE16 IN19
The first roll needs 4 points to be reduced down to 15, so 6 TaP remain. The second roll is 1 too high, so he has 5 TaP remaining, the third is 5 too high - in the end, Alrik has 0 TaP*. A close one, but still a success.
Now if Alrik had used his hair pin instead of the lock picks, he would only have had +1 instead of +5 bonus points - and the talent check would have failed with -4 TaP*...
The third chest has a masterful lock - giving him a +15 modifier. He looks for another pair of lock picks and prays - his TAV is only 15 (TAV) - 15 (difficulty) + 5 (lock picks) = 5.
He rolls, but, oh my: DE20, FF3, IN20 - the talent check fails due to a double 20...
With a curse on his lips, Alrik pulls out another pair of lock picks and gives the lock another try:
DE3 DE8 IN12
All rolls are below his attributes - so he has 5 TaP* remaining, the lock is open!
Now Alrik finds another chest. It has a simple lock (no difficulty modifier), but Alrik has no lock picks or hair pins left. So he has to use his bare hands to open the lock, giving him a +10 penalty for missing tools. His TAV for this talent check is thus: 15 (TAV) - 10 (bare hands) = 5.
Drakensang rolls: DE16 DE4 IN10
Alrik has to spend 1 point to reduce the first roll down to 15, so he has 4 TaP* left, the lock is open.
Just when turns around to leave the warehouse, he suddenly finds another chest with a masterful lock (+15). Since he has no more tools, he would suffer the bare hand penalty (+10). In the end that would mean: 15 (TAV) - 15 (difficulty) - 10 (bare hands) = -10 TAV.
That means every(!) roll for this talent check would have to be 10 points below Alrik's attributes.
Alrik knows he wouldn't succeed even if he gave it ten tries - and he hears footsteps from somewhere behind him - time to get out of the warehouse!
While TaP* are rather unimportant for talent checks in Drakensang, spell checks are another issue:
Mage Bosper wants to cast a energy bolt (Fulminictus) to get that big filthy rat. His attributes are 14/12/12 his talent value (TAV) is 12.
He rolls:
IN16 AG14 CN10
So he has to use 2+2+0 TaP to reduce his dice rolls, 8 TaP* are remaining.
His spell now deals 2D6+8 damage. He rolls two six-sided dice: 4 and 3 = 7, giving a total of 15 hit points.
Since the rat is still alive (and suddenly called smaller ones!) he casts the spell a second time:
IN2 AG10 CN12
All TaP remain, giving 12 TaP*. He rolls 2D6: A 5 and a 6 - so thats 5 + 6 + 12 = 23 hit points - enough to take the big rat down.
The elven spell weaver Elayoë wants to increase dwarf Forgrimm's strength with an "Attributo ST" spell. Her attributes are 18 16 12, her TAV is 6.
She rolls: 16 17 10 - 5 TaP* remain.
The spell now increases Forgrimm's strength by 5/3+1. 5/3 is rounded up, giving 2, so Forgrimm now gains 2+1=3 ST.
A few weeks later, the exhausted party returns home from the swamps.
Now she wants to enchant Forgrimm's CN before an important battle - however, her TAV for that spell is only 3. Her attributes are: 18 16 13
She rolls: 13 14 19 - giving -3 TaP*. Normally the spell would now fail, but the developers decided to be nice: Regardless the TaP* are set to 0 and Forgrimm gets +1 CN.
Elayoë notices her failure and decides to increase ST now instead. Since some time has gone by, she has now a TAV of 17. Her attributes are: 18 16 12, she rolls:
10 15 9 - all 17 TaP* remain! Forgrimm gains 17/3+1=7 points of ST! It's hammer time!!
2) THE COMBAT SYSTEM
Since combat is a major part of the Drakensang gameplay, it gets a bigger part of the FAQ.
I) How does the combat system work?
Combat in TDE is round-based.
Every round of battle (BR) takes about 2 seconds. Normally any character has 1 attack and 1 parry each round.
During the combat round, all characters will attack once. It is important to note that Drakensang doesn't use initiative values like the PnP version, so the good guys always act first.
To check if an attack is successful, a single D20 is rolled on the current AT value of the character. If the roll is smaller or equal the AT value, the attack is considered successful.
Unless the victim has been attacked from behind, it may now try to parry: It may roll a D20 on it's PA value. If the roll is smaller or equal, the attack has been parried and nothing happens.
Dodge in this case is a parry maneuver like weapon or shield parry. It can be used as a substitute without any malus. (***)
If a 1 is rolled during combat, a second "check roll" is made and a special combat rule applies:
AT 1 attacks will be considered lucky, regardless if the second check fails or succeeds. A lucky attack can only be parried with 1/2 (***) of the regular PA value.
If the second check roll is successful, the attack is considered "lucky critical": It will deal double damage if it is not parried.
Parries that roll a 1 and succeed with the check roll will not consume the parry for this round and thus give an additional chance to parry another foe.
If a 20 is rolled, the attack or parry option is considered "bumbler".
I have no details about the effect of a bumbler, but one thing I know: regular PnP rules do not apply, so your character cannot hit himself or fall down to the ground.
My guess would be that an AT 20 consumes all remaining actions for this round(***) and is considered a failure, a PA 20 will just let your enemy hit.
Whenever a target is hit, a D20 is rolled to determine the hit zone: 1-6 legs, 7+8 lower body, 9-14 arms, 15-18 upper body, 19+20 head.
Afterwards, the hit points of the weapon are resolved: A sword with 1D+4 will deal 1 six sided dice plus 4, thus 5-10 HP. The local armor class is subtractedfrom the hit points tp determine the actual damage points.
If the received DP are higher than CN (or CN/2, see wound threshold in post #1), the character suffers a wound unless he succeeds in a Willpower +10 check. Wounds reduce the combat capability of a character: AT base, PA base, RC base and AG are reduced by -2. If a character suffers 5 wounds, he will loose consciousness immediately.
Now lets have a look at a fight:
Alrik is a mercenary from Ferdok, he fights with a sword and a padded surcoat, bracers, greaves and a helmet, his armor class on every spot of the body is 2.
His stats: VI:35, AT:15, PA:14, HP:1D+4, AC:2, CN:15
His enemy is a shady beggar from the "Brisky Ferret", he wears a jerkin and fights with a dagger.
Stats: VI 30, AT:12, PA:12, HP:1D+1, AC:0-2, CN:13
1. BR:
Alrik: AT roll 10 -> success, Beggar: PA roll: 2 -> success
Beggar: AT roll 18 -> failure
2. BR:
Alrik: AT roll 19 -> failure
Beggar: AT roll 2 -> success, Alrik PA roll: 18 -> failure
The Beggar hits Alrik on the left leg for 3 HP. His armor absorbs 2 HP, so he suffers only 1 DP and has 34 VI left.
3. BR:
Alrik: AT 3 -> success, Beggar: PA 15 -> failure
Alrik hits the Beggar at the upper body and deals 6 HP, the armor absorbs 2 HP, 4 DP pass through. The Beggar has 26 VI remaining.
Beggar: AT 4 -> success, Alrik: PA 12 -> success
4. BR:
Akrik AT 11 -> success, Beggar: PA 14 -> failure
Alrik hits the head, dealing 9 HP. Since the Beggar doesn't wear a helmet, he has no armor to reduce the damage and therefore takes 9 DP, leaving him with 15 VI.
Beggar: AT 3 -> success, Alrik: PA 6 -> success
5. BR:
Alrik AT 1, 4 -> lucky crit, Beggar: PA 17 -> failure
Alrik hits the Beggar's upper body and deals 2 x 7 = 14 HP. The jerkin reduces the damage by 2 TP, so Alrik deals 12 DP. The remaining VI of the Beggar is 3.
Impressed by this attack, the Beggar drops his dagger, turns around and runs like hell.
VICTORY FOR ALRIK!
II) Calculating combat values
This is by far the most difficult part of the TDE system. Okay, ready everyone? Take a deep breath - once you understood this, the rest is a cakewalk!
For combat values, many numbers are important:
AT base, PA base, RC base, TAV in used weapon skill, weapon modifier, effective encumbrance For ranged combat there is still some modifiers like target size and range - but let's focus on melee weapons first.
It is important to read carefully! I will explain the different ways of parry with some examples at the end of the post.
The formula for calculating the AT value is:
AT base
+ weapon talent TAV used for AT
+/- weapon and shield modifier
- every even point of effective encumbrance
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on)
The formula for calculating weapon parry:
PA base
+ weapon talent TAV used for PA
+/- weapon modifier
- every uneven point of effective encumbrance
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on)
The formula for shield parry:
PA base
+ shield modifier
+ level of shield fighting * 2
- every uneven point of effective encumbrance
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on)
The formula for dodge:
PA base
+ level of dodge * 2
- every(!) point of effective encumbrance
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on)
What is this "weapon talent TAV"?
-> The amount of TAV spend on AT or PA when increasing the TAV of the weapon style. Be careful, you cannot re-distribute those points. Think before allocating them!
In general, the difference of allocated points between AT and PA may never be higher than 5:
A warrior with TAV 7 therefore may allocate his points like this: 6/1, 5/2, 4/3, 3/4, 2/5, 1/6, but not 7/0 or 0/7.
Please note that this does only affect the points allocated - AT and PA values in combat may have a higher difference than 5!
What is the weapon modifier (WM)?
-> A modifier that is used to alter attack and weapon (and only weapon!) parry.
A sledgehammer has a WM of -2/-4, the using character will suffer -2 on his AT value and -4 on his defense value in combat.
Alrike uses a rusty axe with WM 0/-3, she fights with a shield. Her weapon parry is reduced by -3, but as long as she uses shield parry, this is totally unimportant for her.
What is "effective encumbrance" (eEC)?
-> The amount of accumulated encumbrance
The formula is: encumbrance from armor and carried weight - level of armor use * 1 - eEC modifier of current wielded weapon
The eEC modifier for weapons ranges from 0 (brawling, no point may be ignored) to -4 (for maces and axes, up to four points may be ignored)
BTW, the remaining eEC is not subtracted equally: The first point will not reduce AT and PA by -0.5, but rather PA by -1, the second will reduce AT by -1, the third again PA (and so forth).
Alrike wears leather armor with EC 3, she uses a dagger (eEC -1) - her eEC therefore is 2, she gets -1 to both AT and PA.
If she had the ability "armor user I", her eBE would be reduced to 1, she would only suffer -1 to PA. If she had learned "armor user II" or would use a mace (eEC -4), she wouldn't suffer any penalty at all.
So for shield parry, my weapon PA value is totally unimportant?
-> Exactly, shield parry just uses your PA base and the "shield fighter I-III" ability to improve.
Now let's calculate some combat values:
Mercenary Alrike has an AT and PA base of 8, her "swords" TAV is 12, she allocated the points evenly (6/6), her weapon of choice is a sword of war (WM 0/0, eEC -2), she wears no armor.
Her AT value in combat is:
AT base -> 8
+ weapon talent TAV used for AT -> +6
+/- weapon and shield modifier -> 0
- every even point of effective encumbrance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on) -> 0
8+6+0-0+0=14
Her weapon PA value is:
PA base -> 8
+ weapon talent TAV used for PA -> 6
+/- weapon modifier -> 0
- every uneven point of effective encumbrance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on) -> 0
8+6+0-0+0=14
Since she uses no shield, no shield parry is possible.
Dodge value:
PA base -> 8
+ level of dodge * 2 -> 0
- every(!) point of effective encumbrance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on)
8+0-0=8
Therefore she has and AT/PA value of 14/14, dodge is 8.
Dwarven soldier Gandrosch, Son of Dorgrimm has an AT and PA base of 8, his TAV "Maces and axes" is 13, allocated 9/4. He fights with a battle axe (WM 0/-1, eEC -4) and a wooden shield (WM -1/3), he wears a chainmail with EC 4 and has learned "shield fighter I".
AT value:
AT base -> 8
+ weapon talent TAV used for AT -> +9
+/- weapon and shield modifier -> -1
- every even point of effective encumbrance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on) -> 0
8+9-1-0+0=16
Weapon PA:
PA base -> 8
+ weapon talent TAV used for PA -> +4
+/- weapon modifier -> -1
- every uneven point of effective encumbrance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on) -> 0
8+4-1-0=11
Shield PA:
PA base -> 8
+ shield modifier -> +3
+ level of shield fighting * 2 -> +2
- every uneven point of effective encumbrance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on)
8+3+2-0=13
Dodge:
PA base
+ level of dodge * 2
- every(!) point of effective encumbrance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on)
8+0-0=8
Mayana Moonharp is an elven warrior with AT and PA base 9, she has a spear TAV of 15 (allocated 10/5) and uses a wooden spear (WM -1/-3, eEC -2), in addition she wears an elvish leather jerkin (EC1). She has learned dodge I-III.
AT value:
AT base -> 9
+ weapon talent TAV used for AT -> +10
+/- weapon and shield modifier -> -1
- every even point of effective encumbrance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on) -> 0
10+9-1-0+0=18
Weapon PA:
PA base -> 9
+ weapon talent TAV used for PA -> +5
+/- weapon modifier -> -3
- every uneven point of effective encumbrance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on) -> 0
9+5-3-0=11
Shield PA:
Not possible
Dodge:
PA base -> 9
+ level of dodge * 2 -> 6
- every(!) point of effective encumbrance -> 0
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on)
9+6-0=15
Knight Eberich of Ironstone has AT and PA base 9, he is a masterful swordsman with TAV 20 (allocated 10/10), he fights with a sword of war (WM 0/0, eEC -2), in addition, he carries an improved iron shield (-2/5). His armor is a full chainmail with helmet, greaves and bracers, adding 6 points of EC, he knows "shield fighter I" and "armor user I", so his effective encumbrance is 6-2-1=3.
AT value:
AT base -> 9
+ weapon talent TAV used for AT -> +10
+/- weapon and shield modifier -> 0 (-2 with shield)
- every even point of effective encumbrance -> 1
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on) -> 0
9+10-0-1+0=18 (without shield)
9+10-2-1+0=16 (with shield)
Weapon PA:
PA base -> 9
+ weapon talent TAV used for PA -> +10
+/- weapon modifier -> 0
- every uneven point of effective encumbrance -> -2
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on) -> 0
9+10-0-2=17
Shield PA:
PA base -> 9
+ shield modifier -> +5
+ level of shield fighting * 2 -> +2
- every uneven point of effective encumbrance -> -2
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on)
9+5+2-2=14
Dodge:
PA base -> 9
+ level of dodge * 2 -> 0
- every(!) point of effective encumbrance -> -3
+/- modifiers from wounds, spells, abilities (and so on)
8+0-3=5
Note: It might be possible that dodge actually ignores the weapon eEC reduction. Right now, I have no way to confirm - if you have a minute to spare, please test it!
All weapons deal a certain amount of hit points (HP). Normally this will be one or two six sided dice plus a small bonus. Whenever you hit an enemy, Drakensang will roll the dice and determine the damage dealt.
Alrik uses a sword of war, the HP are 1D+4, so each attack will deal 5-10 HP.
Knight Eberich uses an Andergaster, a giant two-handed sword. This weapon deals 3D+2 HP, so every hit will deal 5-20 HP (average: 13)
In addition, every weapon has a ST modifier for damage. The first number shows the threshold, the second one the interval whenever another HP is added to the damage value of the weapon.
Gandrosch uses a mace with 1D+4 TP, ST modifier for this weapon is 14/2. For each 2 ST over 14, he will get an additional HP: with ST 16 the mace will deal 1D+5, with ST 18 it will deal 1D+6 (and so on).
However, ST modifiers work also the other way round:
The lanky elven maiden Elayoë uses Gandrosch's mace, but due to her low ST she gets a HP penalty: With ST 12, she would only deal 1D+3 HP, with ST 10 the damage would be reduced to 1D+2 (and so on).
Some weapons like daggers, spears, staves and fencing weapons have high ST intervals - so ST is rather unimportant for them. Others like one and two handed maces and axes have low intervals, so ST is very important.
In general weak characters should stick to the first kind, while strong fighters might want to pick some from the second category.
IV) Ranged combat
Ranged combat works like melee combat: The shooter determines his RC value and rolls a D20 to check if he hits the target.
Unlike weapon attacks, ranged weapons can only be dodged or shield parried (which is both hampered by a modifier (***))
The formula for RC value:
RC base
+ TAV from the ranged weapon
- effective encumbrance
+/- size modifier (shield users are considered smaller (***))
- number of persons in melee around the target*2 (***)
- miscellaneous modifiers
Please note: I have no idea about details of the ranged combat system, so the (***) above and the descriptions below are taken from my PnP experience!
What is the size modifier?
-> There are several size levels: tiny, very small, small, medium, large, very large. Humans are considered a medium sized target and give a +4 shot modifier, each level of bigger size reduces the modifier by -2, while each level of smaller size increase it by +2 each.
What about the number of persons in melee?
-> Honestly, no idea. In the PnP version you get a +2 penalty for every person fighting around your target - but is it the same in Drakensang? I really doubt it...
Miscellaneous modifiers?
-> Being attacked in melee by an enemy may give additional modifiers, as well as shields which reduce the target size by 1-2 levels.
V) Sword and Shield - choosing your weapon
You should decide early which weapon and defense skills you want your character to learn. In general every character should have at least 1 weapon talent and 1 defense ability maxed.
i) Ways to parry:
There are three different ways to parry an attack:
1) Weapon parry
Pro: Effective on high weapon TAV, benefits from WM, no special abilities needed, can reach good PA values early on by allocating weapon TAV to defense, cheap to enhance
Con: High PA allocations result in low AT values, some weapons (esp. two-handed ones) have very bad WM, can't parry ranged weapons and some kind of attacks (fire breath of a dragon, etc.), only valid for the used weapon talent
2) Shield parry
Pro: One additional parry allowed per round (with SF I), ignores WM (in general there are much more weapons with WM malus than with WM bonus), makes ranged combat versus character more difficult, allows early AT maximization, makes it possible to wield many weapons even with low TAV effectively
Con: Weapon parry may be a bit better in very late game, needs instructor to be taught, requires good shields (which will not allow spell casting except for the story gear), more costly ducat wise than weapon parry, some attacks cannot be parried (breath of a dragon), needs high ST
3) Dodge
Pro: Allows parrying almost all attacks, independent from weapon TAV, doesn't need any items, allows to maximize AT early
Con: Needs high AG, very bad development and maximal parry values (16-17 max), suffers vastly from encumbrance
In the end it all comes down to personal preference. But allow me to add some subtle comments from my side:
Weapon parry: Very dependent from your weapon. Wooden hammer with -2/-4 sucks, floret with 0/+1 rules. Not as important as in PnP, since AT and PA values above 20 barely matter in Drakensang. Still, the only valid choice for tin-can two-handed weapon wielders. If you focus on one weapon class it is cheaper both AP and money wise, but since enhancement is restricted by character level, shield combat gives you betters stats, esp in the early game.
Shield parry: My favorite! The most important part of the shield: The second parry! Defense against ranged weapons! How many times are you surrounded by 3-4 rats - and here the second shield parry will save your day! Enemy archers ahead? Well, you got your shield!
Shields give you the option to develop multiple melee skills - just increase TAV to 5 and allocate all points into AT, shield parry will do the trick on defense Yes, it is more costly than weapon parry - but you can find good shields quite early in the game. Just take the improved iron shield (-2/5), add SF II (+4) and with PA base 9 you have reached PA 18 and almost maxed your defense Just fire defensive combat I when needed - and here you go. Only problem: Casters can only use wooden shields (-1/3), so they might need defensive combat II to get max defense in melee. Still, better than weapon parry for them.
Dodge: Bad? No, horrible! A lousy +2 bonus per dodge ability is way to small to make this one worthwhile in battle. Only race that might find this one useful is the elves who can get +4 dodge via spellcasting(***) - and even then they shouldn't get any encumbrance If I had to decide between thick armor and dodge, I would always prefer armor and go shield parry instead.
ii) Weapon classes
Important for the modern fighter. Please note that I have no idea which classes get cool magic uber weapons!
So don't blame me if you find the "Sword of demigod destruction 10D+15" and skilled maces/axes because of this FAQ...
Class: Weapon class
Basic: Available from start?
Cost: Enhancement cost
eEC: Effective encumbrance
Abilities: Important higher tier abilities that can be used with this weapon
Pro: Advantage of this weapon class
Con: Disadvantage of this weapon class
Conclusion: A statement from me
Brawling
Basic: Yes
Cost: C (low)
eEC: 0
Abilities: only Master parry
Pro: cheap both AP and ducat wise, no weapon needed
Con: very low damage, no abilities except Master parry, no weapon parry possible, no eEC bonus
Conclusion: Useless. Unless you look for a real challenge and want win the game without any weapon.
Daggers
Basic: Yes
Cost: D (medium)
eEC:-1
Abilities: Mortal Blow
Pro: Basic, no ST needed
Con: very low eEC, low damage, no Mighty Blow abilities
Conclusion: Better than Brawling - but does that mean much? Keep away if possible.
Sabres
Basis: Yes
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -2
Abilities: Windmill
Pro: Base talent, mostly good WM, no high ST needed
Con: No Strike of Wrath, no Lunge
Conclusion: Good 1H weapon talent for non-fighters in the early game. Later swords are better IMO, but I am sure you will find a magic sabre - so an okay option for one of your characters.
Swords
Basis: No
Cost: E (high)
eEC: -2
Abilities: Windmill, Roundhouse (not the Chuck Norris (TM) one), no high ST required
Pro: Versatile , mostly good WM
Con: costly (ducat and AP wise), No Strike of Wrath, no Mortal Blow
Conclusion: A good skill for characters with mediocre strength and shield fighter skills. Don't have to mention that the magic sword is the archetype of any magic weapon, do I?
Fencing Weapons
Basic: No
Cost: E (high)
eEC: -1
Abilities: Mortal Blow, Windmill
Pro: Probably best WM around, no ST needed, at least 1 good magic weapon confirmed
Con: Expensive (ducat and AP wise), low eEC, no Mighty Blow abilities
Conclusion: IMO the best skill for 1H weapon fighters (or mages?) without a shield. Can deliver mortal blows which is really nice, fighters with shield should stick to swords instead, but one character with this is always good for the party since you will get a nice weapon in the early midgame.
Maxes and Axes
Basic: Yes
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -4
Abilities: Strike of Wrath, Windmill, Roundhouse (not the Chuck Norris (TM) one)
Pro: Basic, excellent eEC, benefits from high ST
Contra: No upper tier feint abilities, requires decent ST to use effectively, rather bad PA WM
Conclusion: The ideal weapon for shield using tanks and heavily armored fighters. ST bonus can be very nice in later game when you get ST improving items and magic. My favorite! Doesn't do that well against high PA enemies, but since they are rare in Drakensang (let me recall - did I ever see one? Nope, AFAIK not...) - don't care about that.
Staves
Basic: No
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -2
Abilities: Windmill, Roundhouse (not the Chuck Norris (TM) one), Rush
Pro: Versatile, possible distance bonus vs. low range weapons (???) (***), no ST required, good WM
Con: 2H-weapon, no higher tier feint abilities, no Strike of Wrath
Conclusion: A versatile weapon for defensive orientated characters - mages & alike. Main advantage over spears is the better WM. You will get at least 2 nice staffs during the game, so one character with this would be nice - if you can handle the enemy numbers.
Spears
Basic: No
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -3
Abilities: Mortal Strike, Rush
Pro: Good eEC, no ST required, possible distance bonus vs. low range weapons (???) (***), can Mortal Strike
Contra: 2H-weapon, no Mighty Blow attacks, often bad WM, no good spears during the early game
Conclusion: Messed up in Drakensang. More offensive than Staves, but the lack of Mighty Blow maneuvers sucks. No really good weapons can be found in early game - and even later, spears tend to have bad WM. But maybe the waiting is worth it and you get a super-duper dragon killer spear later, who knows? But really, spears are pity in Drakensang. Too bad, since I really like this weapon class. In PnP you can use them with shields once you have ST 15+ (Sparta style) - and there you can even use them as throwing weapons. Not to mention the cool tacking ability that is missing here... *sob* Oh well, I guess if I ever finish the game I will try an elven warrior with spear and dodge... Bwahahaha...
2H-Maxes and Axes
Basic: No
Cost: D (medium)
eEC: -3
Abilities: Strike of Wrath, Roundhouse (not the Chuck Norris (TM) one), Windmill
Pro: Good eEC, high damage, benefits from high ST
Con: 2H-weapon, no feint abilities whatsoever, very bad WM, ST needed
Conclusion: For the damage dealing tin can. The WM of these weapons is probably the worst in the game (even spears can't beat that), even on high TAV a solid defense is impossible. The lack of feint makes it a very bad choice against enemies with good PA (again - did i ever see one?!). Like one handed maces and axes this one greatly benefits from boosted ST.
2H-Swords
Basic: No
Cost: E (high)
eEC: -2
Abilities: Strike of Wrath, Roundhouse (not the Chuck Norris (TM) one), Windmill
Pro: Good damage, better WM than 2H-Maces and Axes, no high ST needed
Contra: 2H-weapon, costly (AP and ducat wise), no high tier feint abilities
Conclusion: Two handed weapon with better defense capability than 2H-Maces/Axes (and the ability to feint). Needs lower ST attributes, but also lower eEC and max damage in the later game.
Bow
Basic: No
Cost: E (high)
eEC: -3
Ability: Master Marksman
Pro: Low reload time, good damage per shot and round
Con: Costly (ducat and AP wise), needs ammo
Conclusion: #1 Ranged weapon, IMO way better than crossbows. Actually good for mages to do a Master Marksman shot as battle opening and starting to cast afterwards. Longbows have the ability to one-shot enemies with Master Marksman. And you get a few Tenobaal's feather arrows, with a nasty (+10?) damage bonus.
Crossbow
Basis: No
Cost: C (low)
eEC: -5
Abilities: Master Marksman
Pro: Cheap, very good eEC, good damage
Con: Long reload time
Conclusion: Can't think of a reason why to choose a crossbow over a bow. Yes, they are cheaper AP wise, but their potential is much lower than bows. And you will barely be able to fire a handful of shots in combat anyway with their horrible reload time. And eEC does not really matter for ranged combat anyway...
Throwing Weapons
Basis: Yes
Cost: C (low)
eEC: -2
Ability: Master Throw
Pro: Base talent, cheap
Con: Low damage, low range
Conclusion: Again, only a good weapon if you pick style of substance. Master throw may knock enemies down, but most of the time dealing wounds is better. But I guess the problem with these comes from the PnP version where all but the best throwing weapons are basically useless. Actually, you may survive about 10 throwing daggers in your chest if you wear thick clothings... And to hit, you have to get into point black range were an enemy with a spear can already impale you... Bah...
So, for one handed weapons, maces/axes are the weapons of choice for classic tanks with good armor, shield combat and high ST.
Swords, Sabres and Fencing weapons are more for all rounders and low ST characters, with swords being on the damage track and fencing weapons in the feinting/wounding one.
Daggers and brawling is useless
For two handed weapons, 2H-swords and 2H-maces/axes deal very high damage, with 2H-swords being a bit more balanced and 2H-maces/axes being very offensive.
Staves and Spears are versatile (esp. the spear with Rush and Mortal Blow), but unless the range bonus works I think they are not worth it...
For ranged weapons, bow is king. Only if you lack money or AP you should go for crossbows or throwing weapons - and trust me, you can spare those 1000 AP for them...
3) ENHANCEMENT
One of the most important changes between the 3rd and 4th edition (and similar systems like AD&D) is the new "buying point system" for character enhancement.
In the PnP version, levels have become totally unimportant - although they still play an important role in Drakensang. Instead of having to wait for the next level to increase your stats, you can now pay adventure points to buy improvements.
I) Levels
Levels in Drakensang are (unlike in PnP) important for the maximum possible TAV and allowed spell modifiers. The level of a character depends on his AP gained, not on the AP spent.
Gained AP - Level
0+ -> 1
500+ -> 2
1000+ -> 3
1500+ -> 4
2000+ -> 5
3000+ -> 6
4000+ -> 7
5000+ -> 8
6000+ -> 9
7000+ -> 10
8500+ -> 11
10000+ -> 12
11500+ -> 13
13000+ -> 14
14500+ -> 15
16000+ ->16
16000 AP seem to be the limit for Drakensang.
Formula for maximum talent value
MAX = regular* starting TAV + current character level*2 + 3
*this means just the plain starting value from race & class - spending your starting AP does not help at all!
Example: Elayoë starts with Plant Lore 2 and Human Nature -2.
At level 1, her max TAV are 2 + 2 + 3 = 7 and -2 + 2 + 3 = 3
At level 5, her max TAV are 2 + 10 + 3 = 15 and -2 + 10 + 3 = 11
For weapon talents and spells:
MAX = regular starting TAV + current character level + 3
Alrik starts with swords 4 and daggers 0.
On level 1, his max TAV are 4 + 1 + 3 = 8 and 0 + 1 + 3 = 4
On level 5, his max TAV are 4 + 5 + 3 = 12 and 0 + 5 + 3 = 8
As you can see it is quite important to choose classes with good starting TAV if you want to become a grandmaster.
II) Costs
All talents, spells and attributes have a learning difficulty reaching from A (very easy) to H (extremely difficult). The higher the difficulty, the more AP you will have to spend increasing the talent.
All regular talents except for body and weapon will use cost factor B (easy), body will use D (medium), weapons reach from C (rather easy) to E (difficult).
Example:
To raise a B talent from 10 to 11 you need 28 AP, a D talent will cost you 55 AP, an E talent 70 AP.
VI and AE use difficulty factor G (very difficult). The first points may be cheap (8 for the first buy), but the 10th will already costs you 250 AP!
Attributes are the most costly ones, using factor H (extremely difficult) and usually cost from 300-600 AP per point.
I am very sorry, but due to copyright issues I cannot provide you with a full sheet of the enhancement costs. If you got hold of the basic rule set (was part as PDF of the German version), you can find it on page 198.
III) What should I improve?
In general, it is a good idea to max at least one combat talent, other talents should be enhanced depending on play style and game progress.
In general a TAV of 7 equals roughly 80% chance of success for your talent (with decent attributes), so this is the lowest value were you might want to improve all talents you want to use.
Talents can be put in several categories:
MAX talents: Talents that are frequently used, suffer heavy difficult penalties, get huge benefits per TAV point or are used for combat. They should always be maxed asap.
For Drakensang this are: Pick locks, disarm traps, willpower (prevents wounds), all combat talents, frequently used spells and - if you want to use it - haggle.
REG talents: Talents that just need enough TAV to compensate mediocre difficulty penalties and do not really benefit from TAP*:
Perception, plant lore, animal lore, survival, treat poison, treat wounds, seduce, etiquette, human nature, fast talk. These talents should be raised to TAV 7-10. After the swamps you might want to increase them to 12-15.
MIN talents: Talents were no skill checks are made or that do not benefit from TAP* at all:
Blacksmith, bowyer, alchemy, some spells like Flim Flam (light spell for the mage), Attributo (stat increasing spell for less important attributes like AG, DE and IN) or the elvish animal summon spell.
Some talents should only be learned by characters left behind in Ardo's mansion: arcane lore and - if you really don't want to spare the AP - all artisan talents (except pick lock and disarm trap). Just train all these unwanted guys with them and only add them to group if you need the skills.
While body talents are useful for everyone (esp. sneaking - if you have one bad sneaker he might blow cover for the whole group), the others should in general not be trained to more than one character. There is no benefit in raising two character's seduce talent to 15.
It is a wise idea to raise VI and AE 1-3 times during the early game, maxing your combat talents has highest priority.
Attributes should be raised rather late (from up to 4000 AP).
However, there are two exceptions:
First, raise attributes like CO and ST when you just need one point to get important combat abilities like shield fighter I/II/III, Windmill, Mortal Strike and so on.
Raise attributes if a single point will improve your AT, PA or RC base value.
Later on you might want to max ST to get maximum weapon damage from weapons, esp. (2H) maces and axes. As a little something extra, every two points will increase your VI by 1.
CN is another good choice for fighters, although it is not needed for many talents: each point adds +1 vitality, increases wound threshold by 1 and makes you more resilient to poison and illness.
For lock pickers increased DE is a valid option, but throughout the game you will find many magic items that enhance DE - a value higher than 14 or 15 is usually not needed.
Unlike in the PnP version, you should not raise other attributes, simply because there are too few talents connected to them. In PnP, there are like 30 talents bound to CL, but in Drakensang, there is really no need to boost this attribute.
As a reminder: A single attribute point increases your chances of success for the related talents by roughly 2,5%, while adding a point of TAV gives you ~7% for a fraction of the AP cost.
IV) Special abilities
Every character should get the tier 1 skills except for the rather useless Master Parry:
Feint and Mighty Blow make combat much easier, even if you just fight for self defense
Learn offensive combat I & defensive combat I asap.
These abilities can be fired up to give a +2 bonus to either attack or defense while draining a minimum amount of endurance - very useful throughout the whole game!
Now you might think bout getting level II & III. On word: DON'T! They are costly, require many endurance per round when fired up - and you will have better use for that later anyway. Beside: there is no benefit from raising your AT or PA above 19 - which you already reach in the early mid game. Non combat characters with low PA might want to learn defensive combat II and that's an okay, esp. for mages.
I highly recommend using a shield with every character to deal with enemy numbers, so for me shield fighter I/II/III is a must-have for the whole party.
Once you got combat abilities, getting endurance I/II/III is a good choice
When encumbrance from armor starts to rise above eEC, get armor user I/II/III.
Melee fighters should get Roundhouse (not the Chuck Norris (TM) one) to deal with many foes quickly. Strike of Wrath and Mortal Blow are king for the later game.
Ranged characters should learn marksman & master marksman asap, endurance is very helpful.
In general around 6000-8000 AP your party should have maxed AT and PA values to 19/19 and use shields with the highest available level of SU.
I hope you guys find it useful. I know I did, at least in what I should focus on. Now my head isn't drowning in choices and the agony of. I didn't read much on the mechanics and rolls sections, though, and mostly stat distribution/abilities/weapons. I'd love to read some comments and opinions on the whole guide, of course.
I've got 1.5GB of RAM. Not sure how the ATI compares to the nvidia, but there's no hard requirements for video card, and the developers said it should run on a 6xxx series nvidia, as the game needs Shader 3.0. The 6800 Ultra is the high end 6xxx, so it should be fine. I can run Fallout 3 fine with it. The only area where I'm at the line is the processor. I have an Athlon 2400+, and the minimum is a P4 2.4GHz or equivalent AMD. A slow processor shouldn't cause it to blue screen though. I reformatted my computer about a month and a half ago and haven't had any stability problems at all until this game. I'm thinking it might be a sound issue, but I'm not sure.
Yeah, tried that too. No difference.
When I get home I'm going to try reinstalling the latest DirectX update.
It also explains why it is a good idea to use special moves which ignore parry and inflict wounds to kill more powerful enemies instead of reducing their hitpoints to zero.
I haven't been able to find any detailed information outside of that guide. The official English forum is pretty empty. But yeah, the system is pretty convoluted and confusing. I've been trying to read through the explanations of the rolls and shit but it's making my head hurt. I've only been able to gather what skills work and don't.
And it seems like very little is worth putting points into in this game, so a lot of characters are going to end up the same. By the end of my game, if I'm reading that guide correctly and decide to take its advice, most of my party members are going to have Shield III, Armor III, Endurance III, and to put a few points into CO and ST to get some of those combat attacks. I don't really have a problem with that, but it seems it's far too easy to royally fuck up your character. If you want someone who can actually win a fight, you don't have much leeway with stat distribution.
I've got a 1.3ghz AthalonXP, 512mb RAM, and a 256mb RADEON 9550 Pro. No idea what the min reqs are, but I manage to run the game well enough to be playable.
DO NOT give your spell casters more than Armour Use I. If you are wearing any sort of metal, you can't cast spells. This includes everything from brass greaves to iron shields. So, a spell caster can only wear leather anyway.. and more powerful/magical leather is going to have lower encumbrance anyway.
And yes, that guide is written by someone who is very familiar with the PNP version of TDE. Read it, but take away only bits and pieces as they are needed for yourself. Don't follow it to the letter, or you'll soon not be having much fun at all.
Drakensang is rather forgiving, so you don't need to optimize the PERFECT build for every character. Just do what you want to do with your characters, keeping in mind not to put points where they won't be used. For instance, don't start rising your DE and Dodge skill on a character who uses a shield and armour. He won't dodge.
If you find yourself at a point where you feel any of your characters are severely gimped, don't restart. There isn't much replay value here since the progression is 99.9% identical for each character you create. Go get a character editor. There are a few out there. Also don't go apeshit and start making your character the tits or you'll be in a worse situation--you won't have fun at all crushing through everything you see. Or maybe you will. Who knows.
The one I fucked around with for a bit messed up my money. I had maybe 120 D and it made me have 2 D when I used it. The problem was the "Money" tab in the editor listed it as "Gold." Putting that to 2400 gave me 50D.. so I don't know what that was about. I ended up reverting back to my old save game and deleting the editor, because I don't trust myself not to make my characters into tiny gods.
I wanted to give my Thief max swords instead of dagger, Gladys max staff, the amazon max spear.. etc. It started out as that. Then I started putting a few points in STR for everyone... then I gave them some combat skills.. why not? Then I gave them a higher base parry... etc etc. It was getting out of hand.