The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
Presidential Rankings, D&D Style!
enlightenedbum
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Note: Yeah, this is a poll thread, if you have a problem with its existence, complain to me and to ElJeffe who approved it.
Intro
So in a lot of our political threads here in D&D we start debating and discoursing about the best and worst Presidents. Especially with the departure of W we were thinking about his place in history in the President George W. Bush thread. I thought I would make a topic to formalize this discussion. What we shall do in this thread is rank the Presidents we think are the 5 best and the 5 worst. That's the top and bottom quartile roughly. For each ranking on a best list that President will receive points (5 for a first place vote, 4 for second, etc) and for each ranking on a worst list, they will receive negative points (Again, -5 for worst place). Also I'll only count votes that list a full five for each because otherwise things get weird math wise.
The Richard M Nixon Rule
Nixon may appear on both lists from the same forumer. He is the exception because his policy initiatives were pretty good, but his megalomania and disregard for the rule of law was you know, pretty bad. Basically this rule is to satisfy my curiosity.
Considerations!
To make my life easier please bold and lime a header saying something like "Best" to indicate your top ten and bold and red something like "Worst" to indicate your bottom ten. If you are editing a previous list, please note that in Cyan. Please, when selecting an Adams, Harrison, Roosevelt, or Bush, indicate which one you mean. John Adams will be thought to refer to the 2nd President. TR and FDR are acceptable for the Roosevelts. George Bush will be assumed to be HW if on the good list and W if on the bad list. But please just make sure you refer to the one you mean. Thanks! I forgot about the Johnsons since they're not related. Refer to LBJ as LBJ!
I will submit my lists in a subsequent post. Also I will keep a leaderboard in another subsequent post. Please wait til there are two reserved posts to respond.
The Contenders!
Here's every President, their years in office, a link to their wiki, and a brief description of something memorable about them. Don't worry about reading all of this, but if you feel the need for a brief refresher on what some of them did, I added it.
George Washington (1789-1797): Established traditions and functions of the executive such as the cabinet, established the tradition of a two term limit. Put down the Whiskey Rebellion. Appointed 10 Supreme Court Justices.
John Adams (1797-1801): First Federalist President. Got the Alien and Sedition Acts passed. Successfully avoided war with France.
Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809): First Democratic-Republican President. Negotiated the Louisiana Purchase. Fought a war with the Barbary Pirates. Passed the Embargo Act to try to avoid war with Europe, greatly damaging New England's economy.
James Madison (1809-1817): Fought the War of 1812. Allowed the First Bank of the United States to expire but learned during the war that it was useful and pushed for Second Bank of the United States.
James Monroe (1817-1825): Presided over the "Era of Good Feelings" a peaceful and economically prosperous time. Told Europe to keep their hands off new colonial possessions in the Americas, aka the Monroe Doctrine.
John Quincy Adams (1825-1829): Supported high tariffs and infrastructure development. Due to his narrow victory over Andrew Jackson, did not have a lot of clout with Congress.
Andrew Jackson (1829-1837): Instituted the spoils system. Expelled Native Americans from their land, contradicting the Supreme Court. Killed Second Bank of the United States. Tried to abolish the Electoral College. Ended the Nullification Crisis without South Carolina seceding.
Martin Van Buren (1837-1841): Oversaw the Trail of Tears. Presided over the Panic of 1837 (Jackson gets blame here too).
William Henry Harrison (1841): First Whig President. Died one month into his Presidency.
John Tyler (1841-1845): Vetoed much of the agenda of the Whig Party, including re-established a National Bank. Annexed Texas.
James K Polk (1845-1849): Expansionist. Fought the Mexican War, threatened a war with Britain for the Oregon Territory. Created the Department of the Interior. Re-established a National Bank.
Zachary Taylor (1849-1850): Moderate (opposed expansion, did not support abolition) on slavery. Started US down path towards full alliance with Britain.
Millard Fillmore (1850-1853): Presided over the passage of the Compromise of 1850 (California as a free state, Fugitive Slave Act, Abolish slave trade in DC). Sent Commodore Perry to Japan.
Franklin Pierce (1853-1857): Purchased the last part of the continental US (Gadsden Purchase) from New Mexico. Failed miserably to handle Bleeding Kansas and recognized an illegally elected pro-slavery Kansan government.
James Buchanon (1857-1861): Lobbied Supreme Court Justices to decide as they did in Dred Scott. Tried to get the aforementioned pro-slavery Kansan government admitted to the Union. Oversaw a financial panic in 1857. Thought secession was illegal, but war to stop secession was also illegal.
Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865): Fought and won the Civil War. Issued the Emancipation Proclamation. Suspended habeus corpus. Pushed for a lenient treatment of the Confederacy states after the war.
Andrew Johnson (1865-1869): Appointed governments to the South that passed Black Codes, giving Freedmen second class citizen status, triggering a fight with Congress over their re-admittance to the Union. Fight became severe enough that he was impeached, though acquitted by a single vote.
Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877): Supported voting rights for freed slaves. Failed to address the panic of 1873. Notoriously permissive of corruption, scandals rocked his Presidency.
Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881): Ended Reconstruction. Had the military intervene to stop a railroad strike.
James Garfield (1881): Assassinated over disputes involving the civil service system. He was in favor of reform.
Chester A. Arthur (1881-1885): Championed the civil service reform that got Garfield shot. Enacted the first immigration laws in US history, banning criminals, the mentally ill, paupers, and the Chinese from entering the country.
Grover Cleveland (1885-1889, 1893-1897): Ended the spoils system. Adhered to the Gold Standard. Dealt relatively harshly with labor strikes, notably the Pullman strike.
Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893): Greatly increased tariffs. Favored but did not use the Sherman Antitrust Act. Allowed free coinage of silver.
William McKinley (1897-1901): Annexed Hawaii. Boom times for business. Loved him some tariffs. Fought the Spanish-American War. Assassinated (twenty year cuuuuurse).
Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909): Regulated industry, known as "trust buster." Pushed Congress to pass the Pure Food and Drug Act and the Meat Inspection Act. Added more land to the national park service than all previous Presidents combined. Increased the size of the Navy. Got the Panama Canal built.
William Howard Taft (1909-1913): Supported the 16th (income tax) and 17th (direct election of Senators) Amendments. Continued Roosevelt's anti-trust lawsuits. Pissed a lot of people off trying to do the right thing.
Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921): Pressured Congress to create the Federal Reserve. Imposed the 8 hour work day on railroads. Fought World War I after trying to keep out. Helped create the League of Nations, but failed to secure ratification of the Treaty of Versailles.
Warren Harding (1921-1923): Established the Veterans Affairs Department. Negotiated the treaties of the Washington Naval Conference. Cabinet members were bribed in the infamous Teapot Dome scandal.
Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929): Presided during the Roaring 20s. Favored low taxes. Negotiated the Kellogg-Briand Pact, "outlawing" war, but forming a foundation for post-WW2 international law.
Herbert Hoover (1929-1933): Presidency dominated by the Great Depression. His policies in response were ineffectual. Wrongly remembered for doing nothing while the world crashed.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt (1933-1945): Only President to serve more than two terms. Passed the New Deal legislation. Revolutionized how Presidents spoke to Americans with his "fireside chats." Was reasonably successful in making conditions better (25% -> 14% unemployment). Tried to increase the size of the Supreme Court to bend it to his will. Tried to help Britain/France in WW2 with Lend-Lease Act and other initiatives. Pushed for mobilization before Pearl Harbor, after Pearl Harbor fought WW2. Created the Manhatten Project. Created the Japanese Internment camps.
Harry Truman (1945-1953): Dropped the atomic bomb on Japan. Crushed a railway strike. Pushed for the creation of the UN, the Marshall Plan, and issued the Truman Doctrine (containment of the USSR). Recognized Israel. Delivered food and medical supplies to Berlin while the Soviets blockaded the city. Strong supporter of Civil Rights, desegregated the military. Involved the US in the Korean War. Fired General MacArthur for desiring to bomb Chinese targets in China.
Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961): Created the Interstate Highway System. Integrated DC schools. Forceably integrated Little Rock's public schools. Warned against the military-industrial complex. Appointed Earl Warren Chief Justice (I'm biased, I like Ike).
John F. Kennedy (1961-1963): Created the Peace Corps. Dedicated US to getting to the moon. Intervened to integrate schools in the South. Tapped phones of private individuals. Ordered the Bay of Pigs invasion. Navigated the Cuban Missile Crisis. Started US involvement in Vietnam.
Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969): Pushed for major Civil Rights legislation. Pushed for the Great Society programs. Started the war on nouns trend with a war on poverty. Medicare/Medicaid were created. Began the US' direct ground involvement in Vietnam.
Richard Nixon (1969-1974): Escalated the Vietnan War, then signed a cease fire, effectively ending US involvement. Opened relations with China. Ended the draft. Ended the gold standard. Endorsed the ERA. Signed legislation creating the EPA and OSHA. Watergate scandal ended his Presidency, caused him to become the first and only President to resign.
Gerald Ford (1974-1977): Pardoned Nixon. Presided over economic hard times, tried to stop inflation but failed. Continued Nixon's policy of detente.
Jimmy Carter (1977-1981): Faced an energy crisis in 1979, tried to conserve energy as an example. His presidency is known as a period of "stagflation." Negotiated peace between Israel and Egypt. Aided Afghan insurgents against the Soviet invasion. Granted the Shah of Iran entry to the US for cancer treatment, precipitating the Iranian hostage crisis. Negotiated a release for the hostages one day before he left office.
Ronald Reagan (1981-1989): Fired the air traffic controllers for going on strike. Cut taxes to stimulate the economy. Dramatically increased defense spending, arguably breaking the back of the USSR. Cut non-military budgets. Was an aggressive drug warrior. Iran-Contra Scandal rocked his administration but the man himself got away clean. Took advantage of Gorbachev's reformist streak to negotiate with the USSR. Huge deficit spender.
George H.W. Bush (1989-1993): Tried to eliminate the deficits inherited from Reagan. Wanted to cut spending, was forced to raise taxes by Congress. Signed the bill though he later regretted it. Managed the fall of the USSR. Fought the first Gulf War. Did not occupy Iraq. Negotiated NAFTA.
Bill Clinton (1993-2001): Don't Ask Don't Tell. Economic boom times. Signed the Defense of Marriage Act and the Brady Bill. Got the US involved in Somalia, Kosovo, bombed Iraq, Sudan, Afghanistan. Was impeached for lying under oath but acquitted in the Senate.
George W. Bush (2001-2009): See the George W. Bush thread for all your George W. Bush needs.
You Can't Vote For
Barack Obama (Tuesday - ): ???
Holy shit that is a long OP.
Intro
So in a lot of our political threads here in D&D we start debating and discoursing about the best and worst Presidents. Especially with the departure of W we were thinking about his place in history in the President George W. Bush thread. I thought I would make a topic to formalize this discussion. What we shall do in this thread is rank the Presidents we think are the 5 best and the 5 worst. That's the top and bottom quartile roughly. For each ranking on a best list that President will receive points (5 for a first place vote, 4 for second, etc) and for each ranking on a worst list, they will receive negative points (Again, -5 for worst place). Also I'll only count votes that list a full five for each because otherwise things get weird math wise.
The Richard M Nixon Rule
Nixon may appear on both lists from the same forumer. He is the exception because his policy initiatives were pretty good, but his megalomania and disregard for the rule of law was you know, pretty bad. Basically this rule is to satisfy my curiosity.
Considerations!
To make my life easier please bold and lime a header saying something like "Best" to indicate your top ten and bold and red something like "Worst" to indicate your bottom ten. If you are editing a previous list, please note that in Cyan. Please, when selecting an Adams, Harrison, Roosevelt, or Bush, indicate which one you mean. John Adams will be thought to refer to the 2nd President. TR and FDR are acceptable for the Roosevelts. George Bush will be assumed to be HW if on the good list and W if on the bad list. But please just make sure you refer to the one you mean. Thanks! I forgot about the Johnsons since they're not related. Refer to LBJ as LBJ!
I will submit my lists in a subsequent post. Also I will keep a leaderboard in another subsequent post. Please wait til there are two reserved posts to respond.
The Contenders!
Here's every President, their years in office, a link to their wiki, and a brief description of something memorable about them. Don't worry about reading all of this, but if you feel the need for a brief refresher on what some of them did, I added it.
George Washington (1789-1797): Established traditions and functions of the executive such as the cabinet, established the tradition of a two term limit. Put down the Whiskey Rebellion. Appointed 10 Supreme Court Justices.
John Adams (1797-1801): First Federalist President. Got the Alien and Sedition Acts passed. Successfully avoided war with France.
Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809): First Democratic-Republican President. Negotiated the Louisiana Purchase. Fought a war with the Barbary Pirates. Passed the Embargo Act to try to avoid war with Europe, greatly damaging New England's economy.
James Madison (1809-1817): Fought the War of 1812. Allowed the First Bank of the United States to expire but learned during the war that it was useful and pushed for Second Bank of the United States.
James Monroe (1817-1825): Presided over the "Era of Good Feelings" a peaceful and economically prosperous time. Told Europe to keep their hands off new colonial possessions in the Americas, aka the Monroe Doctrine.
John Quincy Adams (1825-1829): Supported high tariffs and infrastructure development. Due to his narrow victory over Andrew Jackson, did not have a lot of clout with Congress.
Andrew Jackson (1829-1837): Instituted the spoils system. Expelled Native Americans from their land, contradicting the Supreme Court. Killed Second Bank of the United States. Tried to abolish the Electoral College. Ended the Nullification Crisis without South Carolina seceding.
Martin Van Buren (1837-1841): Oversaw the Trail of Tears. Presided over the Panic of 1837 (Jackson gets blame here too).
William Henry Harrison (1841): First Whig President. Died one month into his Presidency.
John Tyler (1841-1845): Vetoed much of the agenda of the Whig Party, including re-established a National Bank. Annexed Texas.
James K Polk (1845-1849): Expansionist. Fought the Mexican War, threatened a war with Britain for the Oregon Territory. Created the Department of the Interior. Re-established a National Bank.
Zachary Taylor (1849-1850): Moderate (opposed expansion, did not support abolition) on slavery. Started US down path towards full alliance with Britain.
Millard Fillmore (1850-1853): Presided over the passage of the Compromise of 1850 (California as a free state, Fugitive Slave Act, Abolish slave trade in DC). Sent Commodore Perry to Japan.
Franklin Pierce (1853-1857): Purchased the last part of the continental US (Gadsden Purchase) from New Mexico. Failed miserably to handle Bleeding Kansas and recognized an illegally elected pro-slavery Kansan government.
James Buchanon (1857-1861): Lobbied Supreme Court Justices to decide as they did in Dred Scott. Tried to get the aforementioned pro-slavery Kansan government admitted to the Union. Oversaw a financial panic in 1857. Thought secession was illegal, but war to stop secession was also illegal.
Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865): Fought and won the Civil War. Issued the Emancipation Proclamation. Suspended habeus corpus. Pushed for a lenient treatment of the Confederacy states after the war.
Andrew Johnson (1865-1869): Appointed governments to the South that passed Black Codes, giving Freedmen second class citizen status, triggering a fight with Congress over their re-admittance to the Union. Fight became severe enough that he was impeached, though acquitted by a single vote.
Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877): Supported voting rights for freed slaves. Failed to address the panic of 1873. Notoriously permissive of corruption, scandals rocked his Presidency.
Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881): Ended Reconstruction. Had the military intervene to stop a railroad strike.
James Garfield (1881): Assassinated over disputes involving the civil service system. He was in favor of reform.
Chester A. Arthur (1881-1885): Championed the civil service reform that got Garfield shot. Enacted the first immigration laws in US history, banning criminals, the mentally ill, paupers, and the Chinese from entering the country.
Grover Cleveland (1885-1889, 1893-1897): Ended the spoils system. Adhered to the Gold Standard. Dealt relatively harshly with labor strikes, notably the Pullman strike.
Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893): Greatly increased tariffs. Favored but did not use the Sherman Antitrust Act. Allowed free coinage of silver.
William McKinley (1897-1901): Annexed Hawaii. Boom times for business. Loved him some tariffs. Fought the Spanish-American War. Assassinated (twenty year cuuuuurse).
Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909): Regulated industry, known as "trust buster." Pushed Congress to pass the Pure Food and Drug Act and the Meat Inspection Act. Added more land to the national park service than all previous Presidents combined. Increased the size of the Navy. Got the Panama Canal built.
William Howard Taft (1909-1913): Supported the 16th (income tax) and 17th (direct election of Senators) Amendments. Continued Roosevelt's anti-trust lawsuits. Pissed a lot of people off trying to do the right thing.
Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921): Pressured Congress to create the Federal Reserve. Imposed the 8 hour work day on railroads. Fought World War I after trying to keep out. Helped create the League of Nations, but failed to secure ratification of the Treaty of Versailles.
Warren Harding (1921-1923): Established the Veterans Affairs Department. Negotiated the treaties of the Washington Naval Conference. Cabinet members were bribed in the infamous Teapot Dome scandal.
Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929): Presided during the Roaring 20s. Favored low taxes. Negotiated the Kellogg-Briand Pact, "outlawing" war, but forming a foundation for post-WW2 international law.
Herbert Hoover (1929-1933): Presidency dominated by the Great Depression. His policies in response were ineffectual. Wrongly remembered for doing nothing while the world crashed.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt (1933-1945): Only President to serve more than two terms. Passed the New Deal legislation. Revolutionized how Presidents spoke to Americans with his "fireside chats." Was reasonably successful in making conditions better (25% -> 14% unemployment). Tried to increase the size of the Supreme Court to bend it to his will. Tried to help Britain/France in WW2 with Lend-Lease Act and other initiatives. Pushed for mobilization before Pearl Harbor, after Pearl Harbor fought WW2. Created the Manhatten Project. Created the Japanese Internment camps.
Harry Truman (1945-1953): Dropped the atomic bomb on Japan. Crushed a railway strike. Pushed for the creation of the UN, the Marshall Plan, and issued the Truman Doctrine (containment of the USSR). Recognized Israel. Delivered food and medical supplies to Berlin while the Soviets blockaded the city. Strong supporter of Civil Rights, desegregated the military. Involved the US in the Korean War. Fired General MacArthur for desiring to bomb Chinese targets in China.
Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961): Created the Interstate Highway System. Integrated DC schools. Forceably integrated Little Rock's public schools. Warned against the military-industrial complex. Appointed Earl Warren Chief Justice (I'm biased, I like Ike).
John F. Kennedy (1961-1963): Created the Peace Corps. Dedicated US to getting to the moon. Intervened to integrate schools in the South. Tapped phones of private individuals. Ordered the Bay of Pigs invasion. Navigated the Cuban Missile Crisis. Started US involvement in Vietnam.
Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969): Pushed for major Civil Rights legislation. Pushed for the Great Society programs. Started the war on nouns trend with a war on poverty. Medicare/Medicaid were created. Began the US' direct ground involvement in Vietnam.
Richard Nixon (1969-1974): Escalated the Vietnan War, then signed a cease fire, effectively ending US involvement. Opened relations with China. Ended the draft. Ended the gold standard. Endorsed the ERA. Signed legislation creating the EPA and OSHA. Watergate scandal ended his Presidency, caused him to become the first and only President to resign.
Gerald Ford (1974-1977): Pardoned Nixon. Presided over economic hard times, tried to stop inflation but failed. Continued Nixon's policy of detente.
Jimmy Carter (1977-1981): Faced an energy crisis in 1979, tried to conserve energy as an example. His presidency is known as a period of "stagflation." Negotiated peace between Israel and Egypt. Aided Afghan insurgents against the Soviet invasion. Granted the Shah of Iran entry to the US for cancer treatment, precipitating the Iranian hostage crisis. Negotiated a release for the hostages one day before he left office.
Ronald Reagan (1981-1989): Fired the air traffic controllers for going on strike. Cut taxes to stimulate the economy. Dramatically increased defense spending, arguably breaking the back of the USSR. Cut non-military budgets. Was an aggressive drug warrior. Iran-Contra Scandal rocked his administration but the man himself got away clean. Took advantage of Gorbachev's reformist streak to negotiate with the USSR. Huge deficit spender.
George H.W. Bush (1989-1993): Tried to eliminate the deficits inherited from Reagan. Wanted to cut spending, was forced to raise taxes by Congress. Signed the bill though he later regretted it. Managed the fall of the USSR. Fought the first Gulf War. Did not occupy Iraq. Negotiated NAFTA.
Bill Clinton (1993-2001): Don't Ask Don't Tell. Economic boom times. Signed the Defense of Marriage Act and the Brady Bill. Got the US involved in Somalia, Kosovo, bombed Iraq, Sudan, Afghanistan. Was impeached for lying under oath but acquitted in the Senate.
George W. Bush (2001-2009): See the George W. Bush thread for all your George W. Bush needs.
You Can't Vote For
Barack Obama (Tuesday - ): ???
Holy shit that is a long OP.
The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
enlightenedbum on
0
Posts
People We Like
1. Lincoln (194)
2. Washington (154)
3. FDR (116)
4. TR (70)
5. Jefferson (64)
6. Eisenhower (29)
7. Truman (16)
8. John Quincy Adams (14)
9. JFK (10)
10. Polk (9)
11. Taft (5)
12. LBJ (3)
12. Arthur (3)
14. Cleveland (2)
15. Madison (1)
15. Monroe (1)
15. McKinley (1)
People We Hate
1. George W. Bush (-135)
2. Buchanon (-126)
3. Jackson (-70)
4. Andrew Johnson (-67)
5. Harding (-52)
6. Reagan (-38)
7. Hoover (-30)
8. Grant (-27)
9. Nixon (-24)
10. Van Buren (-11)
11. Pierce (-10)
12. Carter (-9)
13. John Adams (-7)
14. Clinton (-5)
15. Fillmore (-4)
15. Hayes (-4)
15. George HW Bush (-4)
15. Tyler (-4)
19. William Henry Harrison (-3)
20. Coolidge (-2)
21. Ford (-1)
21. Wilson (-1)
People We're Confused About
No longer confused.
No Votes For
Zachary Taylor
James Garfield
Benjamin Harrison
EDIT: Updated through BubbaT's vote.
The Bestest!
1. Lincoln
2. FDR
3. Washington
4. TR
5. Jefferson
6. Eisenhower
7. Monroe
8. Truman
9. Madison
10. George H.W Bush
The Worst
1. Buchanon
2. George W. Bush
3. Jackson
4. Johnson
5. Harding
6. Grant
7. Fillmore
8. Pierce
9. Taylor
10. John Adams
1. FDR
2. Lincoln
3. Jefferson
4. Washington
5. Truman
The Worst
1. Carter
2. Dubya
3. Clinton (last two years moved him from one list to the other)
4. Grant
5. Nixon
Best
1. Lincoln
2. FDR
3. TR
4. Washington
5. Wilson
I think LBJ is the saddest story. He had all the plans to be an awesome president.
1. Washington. Proved that the best leaders are often the ones who didn't want power to begin with.
2. Lincoln
3. FDR
4. Eisenhower
5. Nixon. Yes, yes I know, Watergate. But the man had some rather remarkable achievements as President. He was a deeply flawed individual, one who should never have been President, but he got shit done.
The Worst
1. Jackson. Fucking Trail of Tears. Better for him to have stayed in the army and been a hero.
2. Buchanon
3. Johnson
4. W.
5. Grant
Steam | Twitter
Steam | Twitter
1. Washington
2. FDR
3. Lincoln
4. Jefferson
5. TR
Worst
1. Buchanon
2. Fillmore
3. Grant
4. Reagan
5. GWB
Special mention to Presidents who I dislike, but who were demonstrably effective in some areas and cannot fairly be considered amongst the "worst" Presidents overall: Jackson, Nixon, Truman
Special mention to Presidents who I like and have sympathy for, and whose policies I admire, but who proved to be especially ineffective in spite of the fact that they were essentially, even uncommonly, good people : Carter, LBJ, Hoover
Anyway, we're more diverse in our hatreds. Which is one reason I kind of wanted to make it top ten because I figure the five best are pretty well agreed on. Rushmore + FDR for the most part.
The Best
1.Truman--his speech in defence of 'liberty' provided the narrative that finally got Americans involved in foriegn affairs
2.FDR--durf durf, WW1. His genuine resistance against Winston's intensely imperialistic view of the world would have been amazing to see, as would've a UN that had legitimate power. (I'm not an idealist, but a powerful UN is pretty much every IR idealist's wet dream).
3.Teddy Roosevelt--his imperialistic policies, bad as they were from a modern perspective, were truly useful in the time in which they were used. The Spanish-American War finally broke America into the world stage as a Great Power, and while it's underplayed by Americans (I mean, we know how awesome we are, and whatever), it was a defining moment that gave America tons of prestige. This, and his treatment of Japan severely weakened Russia, and injured Russia's prestige as well as killing any Pacific goals Russia could ever have.
4.Nixon--China is pretty much all I need to say here.
5.Polk--Mexican American War got us California
(I'd like to note that Vietnam took JFK, LBJ, and Nixon down several pegs. JFK's imagination of a military that could strike anywhere and utilize anti-insurgency tactics is what our modern military is today, and Johnson, domestic policy wise, is one of my personal favorites, partially because he's a hilarious badass. He once pissed on a CIA agent's shoes. The CIA agent said "Mister President, you are urinating on my shoes." He replied "that's my prerogative." Hilarious story. Wanted to bring it up.)
The Worst
1. Dubya--this may be bias talking, but the dude was a 1-man empire wrecker. He came in in a time when the world loved us, when being an American in a foriegn nation was something that people would buy you things about, and made the world mutlipolar. It was going that way anyways, but I think that if we had a competent president it would've taken at least 8 years more to get to the position we are--France taking our spot as de facto leader of Europe, Russia resurgent and sovriegn within the old soviet sphere (excepting east europe), China massive (that was happening anyways, but us falling that fast helped). Besides this, the prestige that we had suffered tremendously, to the degree that, to fill in the gap, new immigration boomtowns have come up (London is now more than 50% immigrants, immigrants which quite likely would've gone to New York, same applies to Hong Kong and Berlin).
2. Buchanan, the only president ever to take a domestic issue and turn it into a foriegn policy issue.
3. James "HEY GUYS, GOOD IDEA, LETS INVADE CANADA!" Madison. Seriously, by several strokes of luck we won against the UK once. Why did we think we could do it again when we were in roughly the same position, while England had a far larger navy?
4. Wilson/Reagan-tie. Both of their idealisms have basically become the retarded parts of both parties, though I like Wilson, his idealism has created the hardcore dove wing of the democrats, while Reagan created the hardcore belligerent GOP we know and love today
5. Clinton--Did nothing in a period where we had enough power to do amazing things.
Also man, Buchanon and Bush are running away with this thing. Where's moniker to get Jackson some votes.
Yeah, I was expecting this; similarly I imagine I'm the only guy who's going to give Polk any points.
Wilson is a president I honestly like, similarly I like his ideology, it's just that the effect his FP had on America set us up for what Reagan turned us into.
And, as much as I again like Clinton as a guy, he wasted what he had.
Get it together, guys!
-edit-
Oh, and fuck Truman. My grandma loved him, but I don't have to. Way to end the War in the Pacific that we were already winning by moving the world to the razor's edge of total destruction for it to remain there for all future generations, dickweed.
Honestly, I think Polk was a really effective President. He'd probably be #11. If we didn't care about morality I'd have him 7th. But Manifest Destiny was kind of just a little bit of a dickish foreign policy, so he gets punished. I gave Reagan your fourth place vote and Wilson your fifth because you seem a little more bitter about Reagan.
1- Washington
2- Lincoln (either answer's correct, but I just happen to fall in the Washington camp)
3- Jefferson
4- Teddy Roosevelt
5- Eisenhower
Honorable mention: Polk (oh so close to scoring), FDR
Man, that all-star project of mine simplified things, didn't it?
Bottom Five:
1- Harding (think President Blagojevich)
2- Hayes
3- Bush 43 (willing to allow that history might improve his standing, but for now, he sits right here)
4- Jackson
5- Buchanan
Dishonorable mention: Buchanan
EDIT: Moved Jefferson up from 5th to 3rd. Teddy and Eisenhower slip accordingly.
See, this is where our definitions of "best" are different. He was certainly effective at the job and expanded its powers. But his policy goals sucked so much, I consider him one of the worst. I mean, it's like if Bush managed to dismantle social security. He'd have been more effective, but worse.
Buchanon's both fifth worst AND a dishonorable mention?
If it has to go that way, take Wilson out and put Clinton in instead.
During the campaign, it was brought up by his opposition that he was too old- 68. So this 68-year-old man decides to go out in a bitterly cold March day, no hat, no coat, and give an inaugural address that lasted an hour forty.
I ask anyone in the northern half of the country to look outside, right now, and ask themselves if they'd go outside, right now, without hat or coat, and give a speech that lasts 1 hour, 40 minutes. Now ask yourself if your dad, possibly even your grandfather, would do the same.
Please consider that this man, who had just been sworn in as President, did just that and said "I gotta get me some of that!" Then consider what the REST of his presidency would have been like.
1. Lincoln
2. FDR
3. Washington
4. Jefferson
5. Eisenhower
Worst
1. Buchanan
2. Harding
3. Nixon
4. Andrew Johnson
5. George W. Bush
I feel I should defend my choice of Nixon. I acknowledge his many major policy accomplishments, but I feel that, no matter what he accomplished as President, he did a far greater harm to the country by destroying the faith of its people in the federal government. Before Nixon, there was a certain trust that the leadership of this country could be expected to behave ethically and a presumption that the President would abide by his oath to protect the Constitution of the United States. Nixon destroyed that trust and broke his promise to protect the Constitution, and thus he failed one of his fundamental duties as President.
It makes the current President's tenure that much more noxious when I think about how much it clashes with the style and tone that our first President set.
Yeah, Washington gets all kinds of extra points for setting great precedents. I think the way Lincoln and FDR handled great crises (yes with flaws in each case, but I can forgive some flaws in serious crises) trumps Washington's general all purpose wisdom and precedent setting, but I totally understand the argument. If Washington had also had a great crisis during his Presidency, he'd probably be #1 easily. But his Presidency itself was reasonably low key.
1) Washington
2) Lincoln
3) FDR
4) Wilson
5) Teddy
WORST
1) Buchanan
2) Harding
3) George W. Bush
4) Johnson, Andrew
5) Reagan
I've posted about my hatred of Buchanan multiple times but it can't be stressed enough: the dude sat on his hands while the country tore itself in two, and then handed his successor the biggest mess the country has ever seen.
On Buchanan's final day as president, he remarked to the incoming Lincoln, "If you are as happy in entering the White House as I shall feel on returning to Wheatland, you are a happy man."
FUCK YOU BUCHANAN
1. Washington - Set the tone for the presidency, despite having the whole war hero first president thing that sometimes turns out poorly.
2. Lincoln - Saved the Union, I like the moderate Reconstruction idea.
3. Eisenhower - Interstate System, civil rights, understood the problems with the military industrial complex.
4. Kennedy - Space program, civil rights (minus the whole wiretapping thing)
5. FDR - An intelligently focused stimulus program, intelligently run war footing (minus the whole Japanese internment thing). Loses points for court packing plan.
Honorable Mention - LBJ - Like Podly, I think he had potential, Nixon - I just can't give Watergate a pass
Bad
1. Jackson - Sure he was effective, but what he was effective at was shitty. At least Nixon listened to the Court when they ordered him to turn over the tapes.
2. GWBush - "Preventative War", beliefs before science, the whole Justice Department thing, authorization of torture. Modern Bias may be ranking him higher than he deserves.
3. Buchanan - I honestly don't know what he could have done to save the Union, but what he did definitely wasn't going to work.
4. A. Johnson - Fucked up Reconstruction.
5. Pierce - Just ineffectual
Possible Dishonorable Mentions: Carter - I feel like he's got the good guy bad president problem, Reagan - I'm willing to concede that wildly expansive military spending broke the back of Russia, but man, it just doesn seem like a prudent solution. Also, Reaganomics .
Postmortem: Man, I never thought I'd put a Republican first after the traditional picks.
1. Lincoln
2. Washington
3. FDR - The New Deal was at best a mildly ineffective mess, but he sort of won WWII and moved America into the 20th century, so y'know.
4. Reagan - Om nom nom love me some Reagan. Decisive role in the peaceful ending of the Cold War, modernization of the US economy, defeated inflation, tax cuts, immense growth, impact of economic policies on investment capital leading to the computer revolution and the most effective political transformation of the U.S. since FDR.
5. Teddy R.
Worst
1. Harding - His friends, mainly. Hilariously ill prepared for the job.
2. Buchanan - The country literally ceased to exist for a bit because he did nothing. I mean come on.
3. Franklin Pierce - Kansas-Nebraska act, Ostend Manifesto. Discredited popular sovereignty, reopened the question of the expansion of slavery in the western territories, and therefore made a civil war pretty damn likely.
4. Andrew Johnson
5. Grant - Presiding over corruption, eventual retreat of support for reconstruction.
Also, yeah, I think putting W. Bush near the top of the worst list is a bit ridiculous before he has even left office.
We need time to fully understand the scope of his actions, I think.
And actually, Andrew Jackson. That guy did a lot to set up the US as a country, particularly his extension of suffrage to all (white) males. Hell, you could put him near the top if you weren't so squeamish about the genocide of the Native Americans, because he greatly added to western expansion. He's really very important.
I'm not sure exactly how to react to that.
I never said I wasn't squeamish about it.
1. George Washington. Dude had balls.
2. Abraham Lincoln. Dude had balls, also understood that we needed to re-unify without vengeance.
3. Dwight Eisenhower. Without his interstate system, the US would not be as travel-able and our economy as big.
4. Grover Cleveland.
5. Thomas Jefferson.
The Worst
1. FDR. Created the unsustainable Social Security, and inadvertently the first universal tracking of US citizens. The Camps. Too many things to list. Was basically a dictator. So many problems are traceable back to him.
2. Van Buren. Trail of Tears.
3. Andrew Johnson. His vengeance set reunification back years. I'm suprised he's going to get a quarter.
4. Clinton. Economic boom times my ass. Nice job of selling us out, too.
5. Carter. His anti-nuclear rhetoric set us back 30 years.
1. LBJ - Forcing civil rights against all political sense and the Great Society, enough to gloss over Vietnam.
2. FDR - New Deal, New Deal, New Deal.
3. Carter - First president to give concerns over environmental issues and gay rights. Even-handed approach to foreign policy.
4. Ike - Highways, Early progress on civil rights and warnings about the military-industrial complex.
5. Wilson - Non-isolationist, sensible foreign policy voice at a time of punitive diplomacy and runaway militarism.
The Worst
1. Reagan - Introduced prevailing economic consensus responsible for extreme boom and bust, collapsing social equality, gutting of the public sector and gave the religious right a foothold in US politics they became increasingly comfortable with.
2. TR - Hideous militarist. Occupied the Philippines.
3. W - Continued failed policies of Reaganism and went one further by introducing the concept of a 'hollow state' where all the key functions of the state are outsourced to contractors, leaving only a skeleton staff who exist solely to hand out contracts (though in the case of Katrina, so little expertise was left in FEMA, this essential function had to be contracted as well).
Not going to list merely incompetent presidents here.
Don't know enough about pre-20th century presidents to make a judgment.