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Building a 6TB+ server

LewishamLewisham Registered User regular
edited January 2009 in Moe's Stupid Technology Tavern
Hey guys,
I'm currently doing CS research at a university (can you guess which one? ;) ) and I'm in the need to host between 4 and 6 TB of data. I know that this is peanuts for the storage and database communities, but I'm not a member of one of them!

The intention is to do some exploratory data mining with this stuff. I am writing a research proposal where I can request a server (as in a tower PC, don't have access to rack space). My instinct is to buy a memory heavy, Core 2 Duo box, put 4 x 1.5TB drives in there with RAID (which RAID do I want here? So many cryptic numbers), bung Ubuntu on there and then a database program... I can get my hands on DB2 for free, but I might try PostgreSQL as I know that last.fm are running 10s of TB on that, and it seems to be doing them OK.

What are people's recommendations about how to do this? The easy way is the better way, as I'm still writing the research proposal. An extra hundred bucks is not really a problem.

Lewisham on

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    GrimReaperGrimReaper Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I personally prefer RAID6 for its extra redundancy. Also, I've been hearing bad stories on the current 1.5TB consumer drives so stick to the business class SATA drives for the moment. Because of that I don't think there are any 1.5TB business class drives out at the moment. So you may be stuck with 1TB drives.

    For example, at work the file server I built is set up with eight 750GB drives in RAID6. The eighth drive is a spare (I like lots of redundancy), that gives me a total of 3.4TB for actual storage.

    Also, be prepared for cost. The hard drives will be the single largest cost. Also, get a good RAID card. Don't go with software RAID, it is unreliable. I recommend 3ware for good SATA RAID cards.

    EDIT: The 750GB drives were the best and largest on the market at the time. When we go with RAID server 3 (the current one is the second one) then we'll again go with the best and largest SATA drives we can.

    EDIT2: If you can convince the university for lots of money to buy large SCSI drives then I shall worship you. Not even my work is willing to pay the kind of money that is involved in buying very large SCSI drives in large quantities.

    GrimReaper on
    PSN | Steam
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    DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    There was some bug with the controller on the first few batches of those 1.5TB drives that kills their performance in RAID. A firmware update is available, however.

    I've got that 1.5TB drive but I'm not running it in RAID so I couldn't tell you one way or the other.

    Daedalus on
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    useless4useless4 Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I am doing heavy duty use of 4 ea. 1tb western digital green drives. I know they are "slower" but they are good for data usage.

    useless4 on
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    stigweardstigweard Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Almost all models of Seagate 7200.11 series made through dec 2008 have vbad firmwares that can cause them to die when probed by the bios during boot. There is a firmware update available but Seagate didn't just post it to an ftp, you have to go through them by email.

    stigweard on
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    xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Since you didn't give any budget restrictions, it's hard to give good advice.

    Me, I'd buy one of these:

    http://www.nexsan.com/sataboy.php

    Those are pretty expensive, but any generic raid disk tray will give you satisfactory results. Get a fiber channel card for any old PC, and plug into that.

    Any dual core system with as much memory as you can afford should be good enough for the OS.

    xzzy on
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    LewishamLewisham Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    xzzy wrote: »
    Since you didn't give any budget restrictions, it's hard to give good advice.

    Fair point. That one was a little out of range at $15 000, but let's say I top out at $2500 all-in :)

    How many HDs can I fit in a tower case? I was under the impression I'd top out at 4, but if people think I could get 6 x 1TB drives, what would I store it in?

    Lewisham on
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    ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2009
    Lewisham wrote: »
    xzzy wrote: »
    Since you didn't give any budget restrictions, it's hard to give good advice.

    Fair point. That one was a little out of range at $15 000, but let's say I top out at $2500 all-in :)

    How many HDs can I fit in a tower case? I was under the impression I'd top out at 4, but if people think I could get 6 x 1TB drives, what would I store it in?

    You're getting a full tower right? You should be able to fit a shitload.

    Obs on
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    jackaljackal Fuck Yes. That is an orderly anal warehouse. Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Lewisham wrote: »
    xzzy wrote: »
    Since you didn't give any budget restrictions, it's hard to give good advice.

    Fair point. That one was a little out of range at $15 000, but let's say I top out at $2500 all-in :)

    How many HDs can I fit in a tower case? I was under the impression I'd top out at 4, but if people think I could get 6 x 1TB drives, what would I store it in?

    Most towers will fit a lot more than 4. I have a mid tower and it will hold 8 if I used 5.25 to 3.5 mounting adapters. I would be a bit scared of the heat, though. I'm sure a full tower would hold plenty.

    jackal on
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    xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I'd aim for any kind of 3ware 9000 series raid controller, you can get them with up to 16 sata ports I believe, so really your only choice is to match the card you buy with the drives you want. We use them pretty heavily at work, they aren't perfect, but work decently. Even better, they're pretty easy to use.

    I'd probably shoot for an 8 port card, and get 6-8 1.5TB drives. Will probably eat up a huge chunk of your $2500 budget, leave you a bit under $1000 for the rest of the computer. Aim for 8GB of memory or more, for serious I/O work memory is more important than CPU.

    Unless you plan on doing a lot of serious processing on your data. Then you might want to consider a quad core cpu, depends how well your software is threaded.

    xzzy on
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    ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    stigweard wrote: »
    Almost all models of Seagate 7200.11 series made through dec 2008 have vbad firmwares that can cause them to die when probed by the bios during boot. There is a firmware update available but Seagate didn't just post it to an ftp, you have to go through them by email.

    I think it's only the 750gb drives, isn't it?

    ArcSyn on
    4dm3dwuxq302.png
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    KrikeeKrikee Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    If you're going to stack all of these HDDs in a non-server case you might want to consider 5400 RPM drives so you don't cook your HDDs lifespan away plus, it will save you money getting the slower drive.

    Krikee on
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    LewishamLewisham Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    xzzy wrote: »
    I'd aim for any kind of 3ware 9000 series raid controller, you can get them with up to 16 sata ports I believe, so really your only choice is to match the card you buy with the drives you want. We use them pretty heavily at work, they aren't perfect, but work decently. Even better, they're pretty easy to use.

    I'd probably shoot for an 8 port card, and get 6-8 1.5TB drives. Will probably eat up a huge chunk of your $2500 budget, leave you a bit under $1000 for the rest of the computer. Aim for 8GB of memory or more, for serious I/O work memory is more important than CPU.

    Unless you plan on doing a lot of serious processing on your data. Then you might want to consider a quad core cpu, depends how well your software is threaded.

    OK, so:
    - 1 x 8 SATA RAID card = $480 (I looked at this one, but the price seems expensive!)
    - 6 x 1.5 TB drives at $150 each = $900
    - Dell server that has six 3.5 internal drive bays = $1100

    So all in I'm at $2480, excluding sales tax.

    Does that seem right to you guys?

    Lewisham on
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    ViscountalphaViscountalpha The pen is mightier than the sword http://youtu.be/G_sBOsh-vyIRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    GrimReaper wrote: »
    EDIT2: If you can convince the university for lots of money to buy large SCSI drives then I shall worship you. Not even my work is willing to pay the kind of money that is involved in buying very large SCSI drives in large quantities.

    There are days I dream of 5tb SCSI/SAS drives just for personal use. 10 or 15krpm of course. I still salivate at that new X58 board with SAS onboard.

    Viscountalpha on
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    useless4useless4 Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    ArcSyn wrote: »
    stigweard wrote: »
    Almost all models of Seagate 7200.11 series made through dec 2008 have vbad firmwares that can cause them to die when probed by the bios during boot. There is a firmware update available but Seagate didn't just post it to an ftp, you have to go through them by email.

    I think it's only the 750gb drives, isn't it?

    The 750s had the firmware that disabled cache. that was fun. put four of those damn things in my mac and would get staggering delays anytime i moved between windows or monitors. i was pissed but totally neglected to research the drives. just flashed them finally (without Seagate since they refuse to post it on the web where you know we could actually find it and they never responded to my emails) and they appear to have cache enabled and work under osx again.

    useless4 on
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    xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Lewisham wrote: »
    xzzy wrote: »
    I'd aim for any kind of 3ware 9000 series raid controller, you can get them with up to 16 sata ports I believe, so really your only choice is to match the card you buy with the drives you want. We use them pretty heavily at work, they aren't perfect, but work decently. Even better, they're pretty easy to use.

    I'd probably shoot for an 8 port card, and get 6-8 1.5TB drives. Will probably eat up a huge chunk of your $2500 budget, leave you a bit under $1000 for the rest of the computer. Aim for 8GB of memory or more, for serious I/O work memory is more important than CPU.

    Unless you plan on doing a lot of serious processing on your data. Then you might want to consider a quad core cpu, depends how well your software is threaded.

    OK, so:
    - 1 x 8 SATA RAID card = $480 (I looked at this one, but the price seems expensive!)
    - 6 x 1.5 TB drives at $150 each = $900
    - Dell server that has six 3.5 internal drive bays = $1100

    So all in I'm at $2480, excluding sales tax.

    Does that seem right to you guys?

    You'll probably want more memory than that. The rest of the system looks okay though. I really wouldn't consider anything under 4GB for data crunching.. especially if it's working on 6 terabytes of data.

    xzzy on
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    stigweardstigweard Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    ArcSyn wrote: »
    stigweard wrote: »
    Almost all models of Seagate 7200.11 series made through dec 2008 have vbad firmwares that can cause them to die when probed by the bios during boot. There is a firmware update available but Seagate didn't just post it to an ftp, you have to go through them by email.

    I think it's only the 750gb drives, isn't it?

    Their kb site is down for me right now, probably being hammered thanks to /.. There are ~15 different models of 7200.11, 3 or 4 models of es.2 7200.11 and about 10 different models of maxtor drives that are effected by the bug.

    stigweard on
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    midgetspymidgetspy Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Yikes this Seagate problem sounds serious... my storage is made entirely of 7200.11 drives (11 of them) D:

    Is there a serial # range this affects or something?

    midgetspy on
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    stigweardstigweard Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    midgetspy wrote: »
    Yikes this Seagate problem sounds serious... my storage is made entirely of 7200.11 drives (11 of them) D:

    Is there a serial # range this affects or something?

    There is a utility to run that will give the model serial and firmware revision. If yours is in the list, you email them the info and they aparently never get back to you (I've been waiting since day 1). You can find more about it here -> http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=207931

    edit - nice - they have put the firmwares online

    stigweard on
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