thinking about getting a dog

Elin

Ok. Here's the deal, I like dogs but I've always had cats. I know in general how to take care of a dog, but reading books and care sheets is not experience. The issues are not cost, vet care, or any of that. It's more of a time issue.

I live in an apartment so I'd be getting a smallish dog. There are people in this place keeping border collies and I think they are insane. I'd prolly be getting some type of terrier mix from the pound.

My real question is about crating and mental puppy health. I'm thinking a small year old+ dog. It would be crated for 6 to 8 hours a day but not continuously. My husband works part time as do I, but I have class as well (18 credits). So this semester, and summer semester maybe 5 hours tops in a crate 5 days a week, and once every 3rd week 8 hours when we both have a long day. The issue I'm running into is next fall when my husband goes back to school. I can see where the dog would be crated for a full 8 hours 5 days a week with one of us coming home in the middle of the day to let it out for a potty break. Is that horridly unfair to the dog?

Give me advice please.

Eat_Fire

You sound like you already know the anwser to your question. Putting a dog in a crate for 5 hours a day every day won't build you any karma to say the least, but its not considered abuse. However that is long enough to rethink getting a dog.

Some options you might want to consider would be:
- training the dog so that it can be left in the apartment unsupervised
- take the dog to daycare a few times a week

Make sure to consider your social life as well. If you like to go out and party all night on the weekends and not return home until the next day a dog is probably not for you. Dogs also need a good walk everyday. Not a quick trip outside the door to go to the bathroom, but actual exercise. Skipping on this can come back to haunt you in the dogs behavior and its health.

I would also recommend you research the breed of dog you want to get based on your life style. If you are living in an apartment you are going to want a dog that is quiet (at least not barky), small, and very sociable with people.

As far as breed recommendations, I am a Schnauser person. I have a Mini-schnauser (20lbs fully grown). This breed is very sociable with people and are not barky dogs by nature. Their small stature makes them easier to exercise as you dont have to go miles and miles to wear them out. Training wise they are fairly intelligent and learn rules and tricks pretty quickly.

I do applaud you for considering a dog from a pound. Not only are you helping give a dog a good home, but you help ease the burden on the shelters. Several friends of mine, as well as me have adopted dogs from shelters or pounds. Just make sure you check the dogs behaviour for any signs of serious issues before you take them (these can be googled).

To respond back to your main question: 5 hours a day is a little much in my book, but if you have your heart set on a dog I would go ahead and get it. The only thing that bugs me is if a dog is in a crate for hours on end. Let it roam free in the house, like mine

EskimoDave

Would you like to be kept in a cage for 8 hours a day?

supabeast

Is that horridly unfair to the dog?

You’ve clearly put enough thought into this to know that the answer is yes.

You aren’t in a position to get a puppy. You’re not even going to be home enough to enjoy a puppy. And if neither of you has a full-time job, you’d better have a solid external source of income, because dogs can be expensive, especially puppies. If you really want a dog, adopt an older, more mellow dog that can be left alone.

Elin

I'm not thinking about a puppy at all, my lease specifies 1+ years old. We have good paying part time jobs, that's why we can afford to work part time and go to school.

I don't know, I know very well adjusted dogs that are crated 8 hours a day, but they weren't MY dogs. I know they were friendly, happy dogs. My husband and I have been talking about this for a while, we do both want a dog but neither of us have owned one.

And when I say 8 hours I mean 4 in a crate, a 1 hour potty play break, then 4 more hours until someone gets home.

We don't really go out, we don't party. I'm past my party days and he's just anti social, lol.

What it looks like right now would be up at 6 when I get ready for class, potty and play. Crate when I leave at 8. Home at 11:15ish for potty play. My husband is either home by 1 or leaves at 3. so maybe crated from 2:30 -8:30 when we get home. Summer semester is mostly going to be online for me so I'd be home even more. Next fall is ... busier. I'd still be home for 1 - 4 hours in between classes/work.

I guess I said puppy because every animal is a baby to me, puppy, kitten, birdy. Eh. Just my thing.

Thylacine

I don't think that would be so bad. Also, like the others said before, if your dog is one that won't pee on everything and old enough that it shouldn't chew you could try leaving it out when you're gone. Or perhaps put up a baby gate to keep it limited to part of the apartment.

Additionally, you should look what kind of breeds would suit your lifestyle and then check out breed specific rescue sites. They're different from a pound because it is the type of dog you're looking for, and also they usually live in a home with a person while waiting to be rescued. From that person(unlike with a pound) you can learn more about how the dog acts in a home environment, it's personality, it's problems etc.

For a small dog, I might recommend papillon. They're little, but one of the smartest breeds. They're not typically yappy like many little dogs, and aren't really high strung or too much energy like many little ones either.

Who couldn't love something as cute as this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP61ogah4ds

oldsak

People do it. As long as he has break for a quick walk and to use the restroom in the middle it's not horrible. If you're going to leave him that long you should consider letting him stay outside the crate though.

EskimoDave wrote: »

Would you like to be kept in a cage for 8 hours a day?

It's called a cubicle.

Elin

I hadn't thought about a baby gate. Hmmm, I could baby gate them in the bedroom. My big issue was I DO have a cat and I haven't met a small dog that doesn't adore digging for "treasure" in the litter box. I can watch when I'm home but at school and work /shudder.

LadyM

I would NOT get a terrier a) in an apartment, b) as your first dog, and c) if you have or ever want to have cats.

Yes, they're small. But they're also stubborn, hard to train, usually very barky, active, and many will chase and kill small animals. I would especially avoid Jack Russell terriers.

OremLK

Eight hours a day is really pushing it; maybe if the dog gets a half hour or so walk in between each four hours, it could work.

But honestly I've come to think (owning a dog and being mildly unhappy with owning a dog--we did it for my wife mostly) that if you're not absolutely positively sure that you both want to and can deal with taking care of a dog, you shouldn't do it.

Thylacine

LadyM wrote: »

I would especially avoid Jack Russell terriers.

Agree. My friend has one...they are VERY hyper and not very good with cats.

HenriettaCollins

I totally agree that terriers of any sort are probably going to be too high strung to live in your situation, with your cat. In addition to the Jack Russell I'd suggest nixing Rat Terriers as well since they tend to have more energy than Jacks.
Have you considered a much older dog? One that is 5+ years old is [generally] going to be a lot calmer and predisposed to chilling/sleeping for long periods of time. If you get one from a rescue or shelter that is trained you should have no problems leaving it alone, un-crated for awhile. Also, the older dogs rarely make it out of the shelter.
I don't know how your house is set up but perhaps keeping the litter box in the bathroom and baby gating the bathroom while the dog has free roam would work out? That's how we're set up in my house. Plus it's a lot easier to sweep stray litter than vacuum.

Good luck and kudos for saving a stray's life.

NightDragon

I personally wouldn't feel comfortable leaving a dog in a crate for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week in some cases. I guess there'd be differing opinions on this, but I definitely would consider that being unfair to the dog. If you were home more often, to actually play with the dog and give it some social interaction and let it stretch its legs, I may still think an 8 hour day 5 days a week would be pushing it. I don't know. I like my animals to be happy, and I can't imagine a dog being very happy with the living situation you've described. I don't like crating dogs unless it's necessary - at night for bedtime, or if certain people are coming over that don't get along well with the dog (or if the dog is too crazy with them). I don't feel it would be fair to have the dog stay there the whole day. That could just be me, though.

Werewolf Gamer

That's actually not bad if you have someone to give the dog a midday break from the crate. A crate is like a dog's den. That is their safe place. It might sound cruel to us as humans but dogs are different. Make sure the crate is never used as punishment. It must remain the dogs safe and happy place.
You'd be surprised once the dog gets used to your house and it's environment you can work towards leaving the crate door open so the dog can roam during the day. Petsmart and Petco stores are also great resources for training and offer classes etc. My last dog had run of our bedroom and sometimes the house. He and the cat would play or nap. He was a German Shepherd but i wouldn't recommend one for your apartment.

What you might want to do is just start looking on Petfinder.com They have different search methods where you can look at dogs by size, age, breed, etc. There's a lot of great mixed breeds that would do well too. What's great on that site they usually have a mini bio and tell you whether the dog is crate trained, housebroken, likes cats, kids etc.. The volunteers can also help you be placed with a dog that's just right for your situation.

If you adopt from a group or a shelter you are giving them a better life than they had. More than half of the dogs that are in shelters will be put to sleep. So if you adopt one i wouldn't feel too guilty about a 4 hour time in a crate. You'll be giving the dog a home and lots of love.

brandotheninjamaster

Thylacine wrote: »

LadyM wrote: »

I would especially avoid Jack Russell terriers.

Agree. My friend has one...they are VERY hyper and not very good with cats.

I agree as well. Jacks also have the ability to jumps to heights that seem to defy gravity. I am 6'2" and the JRT that I used to dogsit could jump into my arms from the floor and without a running start. What that means for you is that they will jump just about any gate that you would put up (low outside fence too).

Djeet

I don't think 8 hours in a crate a day is that big a deal, provided you can break it up with a half to one hour break and he's getting plenty of exercise (especially before the crating); when you let him out he'll likely be rambunctious for awhile. Though ideally this* would only be really necessary during the transitional and house-breaking phases, or if the dog has a high prey drive and you keep other pets he might consider to be prey. Once they are out of puppyhood a trained dog should be able to hold it and control his own water consumption such that he can have free reign of the house for 8+ hours without messing the place. The transition from crated to not crated may have a few messes and lost shoes, but if you're patient, consistent, and reasonable with your expectations of the dog there's no reason why it's not possible.

The only way to keep the dog out of the cat shit is to make sure they don't get into it. Over time they'll likely loose interest, but for the first few years if he can get to it he'll probably root around in it (and that's normal). I also wouldn't be looking at most terriers if you have cats. And if he's going to be apartment living I'd definitely be looking for a 2+ year old dog that has low exercise needs. Bigger dogs don't necessarily need a lot of exercise, and smaller dogs can be quite strung (either do to inbreeding or poor upbringing).


*Edit: Crating at all, not the break. A break is going to be pretty much mandatory for an 8 hour stay in a crate. Point I'm trying to make is longish crate stays can be humanely used to transition a housebroken dog to a new environment or to housebreak a dog, but ideally once the behavior is set, you don't need to crate him. Pretty young pups can be quickly housebroken given a patient and consistent training.

Qingu

One of my better friends got two dogs a while ago (medium sized) and kept them in a crate for much of the day as puppies. They are perfectly nice dogs now and don't seem too traumatized.

Which is to say, putting your dog in a crate for 5-8 hours each day won't necessarily fuck it up.

However, I personally would err on the side of empathy. I know people have argued that crating dogs fulfills some sort of canine temperment need that doesn't exist for humans, but I have no idea how you would even attempt to prove this scientifically—especially because dogs are modified wolves, and I can't imagine wolves liking (or being adapted to) having to sit in a crate all day. I often wonder if a lot of what people commonly subject dogs to will one day be regarded as animal abuse.

Dynagrip

I baby gated my dog in the kitchen for the first year or so. I'm sure he didn't exactly love it. Also, I worked close enough to home that I was able to check on him during lunch.

Also, most dogs take to their crates as if it was a den. Don't use it as punishment and don't lock them up in there all the time.

Masked_Mullet

Whatever you do, do not go for a beagle. They are loveable and very compassionate. But man are they hyper, if you leave them they will tear things to shreds. I love my beagle he is awesome. But a very temper mental dog.

Sparticus773

Clumber Spaniels are gawd-ugly dogs, they are hilariously ugly, cute-ugly. especially as pups. Clumber Spaniel are known to be the laziest dog there is. Right now i have an afghan hound who will BOLT for an open door to get outside. A spanish clumber will never bolt for anything. I know this doesn't sound apealing, but aside from being lazy, they are very loving and nurturing. They like to sit right up next to you when you're watching tv etc.

Best of all, you won't need to crate it. Maybe just as a pup to potty train, but they won't destroy anything, they just wanna live. Basically, they are like a dog who is constantly buzzed, and just wants to hand loose.

Crashtard

My wife and I have a basset hound that's kept in a cage 8 hours a day, and pretty much has been since she got it. It doesn't hurt them a bit. The big thing is that as soon as you let them out they will need to go outside to go potty. As long as you love on them and pet them they won't really mind it.