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Employment Issues (Updated 1/25 post #16)
The Crowing One
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Full Story:
I graduated from a well-regarded “new ivy†college in 2007 and promptly spent the following year working retail at my local game store. My degree was honors in English Lit with a strong minor in Religious Studies. I got along fine, lived with my parents and generally got a lot of stuff in my life together. From December of 2007 onward I was engaged in a job search. In July of 2008 I moved in with my fiancé and finally got a job at a national non-profit in the nearby city.
I was ecstatic to just be hired for a “real†job at the time, and I have been working there ever since, six months. Now I was hired as the Office Director/Counselor and was supposed to be given a half caseload. Within the first few weeks I was pulled aside by my supervisor and placed in charge of an important new team that my office was taking on. Great, right? I built the team and our procedure from the ground up. At my first job. Within my first month. Shortly after I received a pay bump for my “responsibility†over the program. I continued to lead the team, though I was asked to exit the Office Director position in late September due to my time being completely taken up by the new project. No change in pay-grade.
In December my pay went down to what starting counselors were given. I understood this was eventually coming and the company was looking to cut costs as our funding was drying up. At the same time I was transitioned into a new position, overseeing all counseling aspects within my region. Great, right? No pay raise, not even to the old Office Manager rate. The business thrives on the current economic condition. We have more funding this year than ever.
So, in short I’ve had four different job descriptions, been placed at the head of a large, important and sensitive project and have shown enough spunk and ability to be considered for and offered advancement on multiple occasions.
Now, to complicate things:
My issues with the job do not necessarily have to do much with position or pay-grade. I work standard 45-hour weeks for what ends up being about 11 bucks an hour. I do not get off work until 7:00pm at night, and often find myself really wishing that I could be home in time for dinner and being awake for more than two hours before hitting the hay for the night. On top of this, some days in the office can be terrible when my boss is in a poor mood, leading to people crying, arguments and general depression a quarter of the time. Four of the seven employees are related to each other, and this causes issues.
My questions:
1) Should I be asking for a raise? I have shown immense ability and responsibility and had been previously making a small deal more than I do now.
2) Is it time for me to go off looking for a new job, or do I have it pretty well off? This is my first real desk job and I have little frame of reference.
3) Am I missing anything?
I’m certain that I’m missing something, here. Feel free to fire away with clarifications!
EDIT: Updated 1/25 in post #16
I graduated from a well-regarded “new ivy†college in 2007 and promptly spent the following year working retail at my local game store. My degree was honors in English Lit with a strong minor in Religious Studies. I got along fine, lived with my parents and generally got a lot of stuff in my life together. From December of 2007 onward I was engaged in a job search. In July of 2008 I moved in with my fiancé and finally got a job at a national non-profit in the nearby city.
I was ecstatic to just be hired for a “real†job at the time, and I have been working there ever since, six months. Now I was hired as the Office Director/Counselor and was supposed to be given a half caseload. Within the first few weeks I was pulled aside by my supervisor and placed in charge of an important new team that my office was taking on. Great, right? I built the team and our procedure from the ground up. At my first job. Within my first month. Shortly after I received a pay bump for my “responsibility†over the program. I continued to lead the team, though I was asked to exit the Office Director position in late September due to my time being completely taken up by the new project. No change in pay-grade.
In December my pay went down to what starting counselors were given. I understood this was eventually coming and the company was looking to cut costs as our funding was drying up. At the same time I was transitioned into a new position, overseeing all counseling aspects within my region. Great, right? No pay raise, not even to the old Office Manager rate. The business thrives on the current economic condition. We have more funding this year than ever.
So, in short I’ve had four different job descriptions, been placed at the head of a large, important and sensitive project and have shown enough spunk and ability to be considered for and offered advancement on multiple occasions.
Now, to complicate things:
My issues with the job do not necessarily have to do much with position or pay-grade. I work standard 45-hour weeks for what ends up being about 11 bucks an hour. I do not get off work until 7:00pm at night, and often find myself really wishing that I could be home in time for dinner and being awake for more than two hours before hitting the hay for the night. On top of this, some days in the office can be terrible when my boss is in a poor mood, leading to people crying, arguments and general depression a quarter of the time. Four of the seven employees are related to each other, and this causes issues.
My questions:
1) Should I be asking for a raise? I have shown immense ability and responsibility and had been previously making a small deal more than I do now.
2) Is it time for me to go off looking for a new job, or do I have it pretty well off? This is my first real desk job and I have little frame of reference.
3) Am I missing anything?
I’m certain that I’m missing something, here. Feel free to fire away with clarifications!
EDIT: Updated 1/25 in post #16
The Crowing One on
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If a raise wouldn't keep you from feeling bad about the job, then you should probably be looking for another job.
The whole thing is ups and downs. I have great days where I get tons done and make an actual and humongous impact on the lives of my clients. I have other days when all I do is keep my head down and try not to attract any attention.
Getting a raise would make me happy to some extent. My supervisor does everything possible to get us out of work as early as possible.
There's never any harm in sending resumes. And I am.
This evening I spent half an hour giving support and counseling to a co-worker who is being singled out by the rest of the office as a scapegoat. I did the same with a different employee Monday last week.
This probably should go without saying but never quit unless you have an offer in your hand from another place. Quitting to collect unemployment and look for a new job rarely works out well.
The job market is growing, in my field, but for every legit position there are a couple of scams out there. Additionally, a huge concern of mine will be surviving past the current housing crisis. There are many, many jobs out there which will simply vaporize after a year or two. Where I am currently will most likely downsize in that timeframe, but based on my current work and the company's attitude I believe that the experience I have will see me through with my current company. If I were to change jobs I feel confidant that I would be able to do the same thing assuming that jobs would be available past the year and a half mark.
I would very much like to swap to the for-profit side of things, as I believe that I would both be better suited to the work and would be happier with my hours and compensation. The issue is that there are no opportunities for such a swap without fudging my stated areas of concentration.
I'm only really considering leaving the company as an option because of the experience I have gotten in the past six months. I mean, within the month of my hire they put me in a position of immense responsibility and development. This would be my selling point in any interview I would possibly get.
Even if I were to move up in the company, there's no way my salary would even surpass that of most professional admin assistants. I've been browsing listings and most pro admin jobs start at least 5-10k over what my yearly is now. I suppose that should give you an idea of why I'm a bit miffed over the roller-coaster pay fiasco.
If I were to ask for a raise, would it be better to ask for more than I was originally making before the paycut in December? or would I be better off just trying to recoup my losses? In many ways, I feel as if the company is just trying to squeeze as much productivity out of me for the lowest wage they can. This is how business works, but I feel somewhat demeaned.
This is part of the issue. I understand that a year is generally the mark for leaving a job, but sometimes things require more immediate attention. There are so many things making me want to get looking for other options in earnest.
A good deal of the issue comes by way of my supervisor. I have brought problems there before and been given a run-around or flat refusal to make anything better. Suffice to say the company isn't really interested in "making things better" for me, and when concerns about workload or hours get voiced we all get a "well, that's the way it is!" lecture.
This is part of my hesitation for asking for further compensation. I mean, my co-workers have been generally surprised that my salary is the same as theirs considering the responsibility I shoulder. Another part of the puzzle is that the position I transitioned into is new and there is no payscale specifically linked to the job. Everyone else who has my job within the company is getting more than I am because they were on a higher grade when they were pulled into the job.
I have a fear that bringing up unhappiness and/or asking for a raise would cause a ruckus and get me nowhere. As I said above, my supervisor and the company would rather work someone to burn-out and then hire a new face than actively do anything to lessen employee workload. Since I was hired I have been privy to stories of people leaving because they just can't take it anymore. Important people. The turnover within the company at the lower levels is humongous. It isn't malicious on their part, but it is simply the way they can afford to do business. It is for this reason, primarily, that I am unsure as to how to proceed. They don't look to retain, really, though my case may be different.
Regardless, I may just be at an impasse. Sticking it out may be smartest, but I have no interest in watching my mid-twenties dissipate into long work hours and a somewhat crummy environment. I have the education and great first-job experience to do better. I suppose I wonder if I'm correct in believing that the experience I've gathered and the responsibility I've been asked to hold would make me an attractive candidate for other positions, or if the length of time, lack of larger experience etc would make it a futile effort. It certainly never hurts to put out applications, but I need to focus myself and plan ahead. If I stand a chance of getting better than I have now then I would love to put more effort into a search.
Thanks a lot, Smurph, for bringing up a lot of stuff that I hadn't really considered. Bottom line is that, as my first real job, I don't know how to best go about trying to solve these issues from within.
I'm in a similar position to you (sort of) and have handled it similarly. It's been miserable, but I think it's going to pay off in the long run. I was brought on as a jr software developer at moderate jr developer pay, I officially worked for a team based out of london (I'm in richmond, va) which was around 20 people managing our back end application and worked directly with a team of local developers of around 7 people who managed the customer facing stuff which had to integrate with the back end. After about 6 months all of the other developers in the US were let go and the team I am on was reduced to about 5 people. I have taken over all of the customer facing stuff, still manage tons of back end stuff, am a sr developer, am effectively the director of IT here in the US as I've taken over most of his responsibilities, and am doing the jobs of 7-10 people who each earned between 8 and 40 fucking thousand dollars per year more than I do. I am $35k/yr below the mean annual salary for developers in my city, which should be about $20k below the actual normal, average pay. I have been denied a raise twice.
I stuck it out for another year or so after that before I started looking, I built up a decent portfolio of leading and managing dev projects of varying scales here at the current company, etc. If I had left right when I knew things were going downhill I would have gotten another job with similar pay, maybe $5-$10k/yr more if I got lucky, although almost certainly better hours than this place has me working (60hrs/week was normal with frequent 70 hr weeks until recently when I just finally said fuck it, I'm not paid for it and I'm not goddamned doing it anymore). Due to waiting and building up the portfolio, though, along with some personal side projects to build my portfolio, I've now got multiple jobs on the line here - one of which will almost certainly be offered and the other I haven't interviewed for but have been called about by multiple recruiters and it sounds like I'm very likely to get it once I interview, each with pay between $15k and $25k/yr more than I make now.
Semi-looking? Like, sending out apps but not taking time off unless something unbelievable happens? I'd be happy with that.
Something I have not said yet explicitly, but is probably important, is that this job isn't in my "field." I got the job and have learned on the go. Hell, 12th grade math was my most recently schooling and I work with financial calculations every day. Sticking it out past 1 year may not actually net me advancement in the field as a whole, as I have no degree or background for what I'm doing now. My whole sell would be on experience or based on customer service/relations. So while sticking it out may look better, the chances of actually moving up within the company or field finds myself without the requisite background for a better job.
To expand on my background: My experience and qualifications surround customer service and relations. My experience is mostly wrapped in admin, retail, conflict resolution/mediation and peer counseling. Basically, I'm really good at talking to people and getting others to open up and to trust me. I also have an ethical issue with the majority of sales jobs out there. I'm kind of boned, right?
Edit: I think it makes sense to note that similar positions to our base counselor make 10k+ more a year and work significantly less hours.
I assume by "most recent schooling" you mean most recent relevent to the work you are currently doing since in your OP you said you had recently graduated from college, right?
I don't have much advice there, butI can tell you that I've gotten to where I am (underpaid and overworked, but still further than anyone said I would with some very bright prospects for the near future) with no degree, but I'm also a software developer and that sort of work tends to be dealt with a bit differently than many other fields. You've at least got a degree, and many times, that's all employers are looking for. A degree of any sort plus relevent experience. Don't let that hold you back from anything at all.
Two years out. Graduated in '07.
I can get another job, though it certainly may take awhile. If there were opening at other agencies for the same type of work I believe that I'd have quite a good chance due to my degree and experience.
I'm planning on asking for a raise, unless anyone can point out why that may be damaging. When going into the meeting I'll outline everything I do and why I deserve a raise. Here's the kicker, should I be asking for my old salary back or aiming higher? If I want my old salary, should I value myself up in order to get something lesser? Or is it better just to "ask for a raise" and not quote amounts? I've actually never asked for a raise before, and I'm not certain exactly what I should be asking for. Keep in mind that I was being paid more previous to my transition into a new position, and my current pay is "starting pay" only.
Keep in mind as a relative neophyte in the workplace, you are getting paid a bit less because of the experience you are recieving from working there, experience you dont already have. 3 months is not experience. 6 months comes close, a year is better and two years is even better than that. But by all means, take a good measure of other peoples life experience and start equating that experience to a dollar value, never hurts to know how much you are worth.
You seem like youre doing well, and your bright enough to make a good go of it. As long as there are opportunities for personal growth, youre not getting hosed. You need a chance to be able to prove you can hold up in the long term, and if that chance exists where you are, and you can live comfortably off of what you make, then there no harm in sticking it out.
That being said, if you're being exploited, or your company is taking advantage of your willingness to learn, then that needs to be addressed and compensated, either financially or with something tangible you can hold in your hand (a certification, degree, coursework, etc). You don't want to get a big head before its due, its a common trap for people with some education but no actual experience to think that they are worth more than they are.
The piece of paper you hold in your hand only raises the ceiling of what you can make over time; your actions and your proven track record are the largest part of your value as an employee.
Sarcastro speaks truth here. I know that in my profession your first year or two minimum are basically spent working an entry level crap position. Once you get the first year+ under your belt, your options really open up.
Sarcasto, you've got awesome advice as usual.
I want to clarify that I was hired at a higher wage, shuffled into four different job descriptions within five months and now I have settled into a stable position. My salary decreased when I took the new position, and I was aware of this. At the moment there is no payscale for my job, as it is a new position. I have just as much responsibility and workload, if not more, than I did when I was receiving a higher salary. My question is specifically that if I was hired at a higher rate for a job that I swapped out of into an equal responsibility job should I be asking for a raise back to my original salary? My line of reasoning is that I make the same as the employees I oversee, sometimes less, and I have more responsibility than any of them. See?
I know that salary is 10k higher at other agencies who do the same work, with a workweek that is generally 5-10 hours less than my 45 where I am.
I guess I want to address the question "Am I being exploited?" I have been selected for and placed in charge of everything and anything that requires responsibility within my region. I have consistently been the go-to person for getting things done within my region.
I make less than 30k for a 45 hour workweek and responsibility over the entirety of counseling which occurs in four offices. I believe that I am under-compensated. I'm not looking for a raise to 50k, I just want to get a little better on the payscale which reflects my value and ability.
I'm beyond entry-level, by this point I believe. I have no delusions about being able to enter a new position at above entry.
Edit: From the OP,
This is a huge concern, as well.
Budget cuts were just announced for my state, and my partner who is a first-year teacher may be at risk. I say "may" because the way that her school is structured makes it rather impossible for them to cut her position. This being said, the scope of the cuts projects thousands of state lay-offs. There may be restructuring or other issues which would eliminate her position.
My partner brings in over half of our household income. Losing that would be disastrous. We do have a good 3+ months of savings which may be able to assist us in the case that something bad does happen.
This being said, there are three positions open in my field, in my city which I plan on applying for. They generally would solve my issue of hours and salary, and were what I referred to as "standard" hours and payscale for my profession.
I plan on also accelerating my attempt to get a raise. I would want to allow my current company the chance to make a counter-offer if I were to get an offer from the new positions which are open. It strikes me that I may trade long-term security and advancement for a quick salary bump at a new company if I were to secure the position being offered. Though job security in my field is pretty much guaranteed through the recession due to the nature of funding and work, as it deals directly with assisting families through economic tough times.
Thoughts? I wonder if this is the correct way to proceed. I took the news of budget cuts seriously, and want to begin working on a contingency plan in case I need to be the sole breadwinner for a few months. Higher salary would, of course, help in this situation, though I would still need to put 60%+ of my current earnings into housing/utilities and cost of living. This would be a huge change and would place a lot of stress on my financial well-being. All savings would be on hold, and if the climate didn't change within 3 or 4 months, things would get very, very tight. Should I apply for these other jobs and only ask for a raise if I have an offer in hand? or should I do all of this in tandem? Will this be seen as "alarmist" and even irrational to be so concerned over the potential of losing household income?