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Vigilantes vow to kill one criminal every 24 hours
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That's true to an extent. The head dudes were big deals in the colonies, but they were still fighting the home country, which had evolved the genius policy of treating their colonists as natives to be controlled rather than fellow citizens of the Empire. They had an up to fight.
The "top down" argument also ignores the fact that the leaders of the American Revolution were riding an unruly crowd. Once the people were riled up, they lost the ability to back down - and many of them didn't really want to fully revolt. They really weren't in control anymore and had three choices. They could revolt and lose and get hung by the British; back down and get hung by the American mob; or fight to win and rule.
It's difficult when the higher ups in the mexican gang world are politicians.
It would take more than they're willing to give up. Various actions that would result in the gangs slaughtering the people the hypothetical revolutionaries are allegedly fighting for in retaliation almost immediately.
I don't know much about the situation, so this is more question than statement.
Isn't part of the problem that most of the police force in Mexico is either intimidated or flat-out bought by the drug cartels?
Face Twit Rav Gram
Yes, in many cases the police are worse then the drug cartels. And often the honest ones are promptly killed.
Turn them into militias, sort of.
Face Twit Rav Gram
Neighborhood watch with shotguns.
Seems like a better idea than making melodramatic pronouncements.
Do they think this is a fucking movie or something? They'll kill a criminal every 24 hours?
Madness. Complete madness.
No sir.
Things do not happen in a strictly linear rate! More at 11!
Also seconding Kagera.
Not to nitpick, but you're assuming a constant murder rate. Shit probably goes up drastically in the summer.
Well, desperate people do crazy things.
I think the militia idea is best. You'd need enough numbers where the gangs can't just up and wipe you out, and you'd need a less extreme mandate than "go hunting for criminals". Just some kind of unity where you don't threaten the cartels existence but you let them know you won't accept them slaughtering people.
This of course has a near zero likelyhood of happening
The Mexican Feds roll all up ins with the army and declare martial law, institute a strict curfew, and begin confiscating weapons. Initially, it'll be a bloodbath, but it's really the only practical solution.
It gets the point across much more effectively than the failing and corrupted system. But huge caveat. . .it still comes down to who they murder and why those people are murdered. There can't be any secondary agenda.
So either you end up having violence amplified in those neighborhoods watched or it swells into those that are not being watched. Then you have people screaming 'WHAT ABOUT MY NEIGHBORHOOD!?" and getting all rowdy and upset. Factions form and. . .
I'm not worried that these vigilantes are going to kill people. Because I'm pretty sure their bodies are going to be floating down some river soon.
Interestingly enough, that's probably also the only solution if this thing breaks out into a full-scale war, which it may very well do.
I wish them luck, however going public is likely to get them all killed. Personally I think they would be more effective by staying in the shadows, observing and working out who exactly is in charge, and systematically killing the people they can reach. Since they have no drugs to distribute, and are not fighting for "influence" they would have a better chance remaining as unknown faces in the crowd. Of course this assumes they have a large enough group willing to help out, and keep their mouths shut.
You could do a lot with a group of dedicated individuals who didn't care about money, power, or making a name for themselves who could blend in with the local population. However to enact true social change you are going to need to see a lot more than small vigilante groups killing criminals, you are going to need to see massive social upheavals pushing back against the corrupt government/drug lords.
Bad situation all around, however at least some people are willing to try and make a go at making things better, even if their methodology is not the best.
http://www.cracked.com/article_16612_6-real-life-vigilantes-crazier-than-batman.html
So does, as I suggested, threatening to and only using force when a crime is actually being committed, rather than setting a quota for yourself to murder someone who you think has probably committed a crime at some point.
So you punch someone in the stomach and they go away? When you're dealing with death squads, it is unlikely that you can intimidate them.
Yes because when trying to take on a massively armed drug cartel that has been in a crime war for over a decade, you can hijack their arms shipments, burn their fields and blow up their labs without killing. And with an untrained mob.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
worked in ireland a few years back. the Heroin problem had gone through the roof, and to deal with it, locals began pooling information and doing research and low and behold, within about a month of all this starting around the capital, hundreds of small time drug dealers had been dragged out of their houses in the middle of the night, to be hospitalized, have their homes torched, kneecapped, etc.
drug problem took a nose dive after that.
Or nearly as well armed or well connected.
Didn't they actually disarm the entire police force and have crime actually drop?(since the cops were committing so many crimes)
Sure, why not, that's exactly what I think.
You were thinking they'd instate in a new government by what means, if not a guerrilla war? Writing a letter to their congressman? Filing suit? And that these people are so obviously fundamentally retarded that they can't be trained to operate as a guerrilla force even though that shit happens all the time? Sure, go eat your gummy bears.
i dunno, having paramilitary support (which a fair few of them had at the time, the troubles in the north were in full swing and this was one of the many ways in which they were funding themselves) would normally make someone fairly well connected. Especially in ireland in those days.
also, ireland has a looooong history of vengeance. we're well versed in the matter. sure look at the 30 years of troubles in northern ireland. that was all over a car parking space. well, maybe. could have been something else.
In Ireland they were the IRA, so I don't know about that.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
This can never go well for anyone involved. You'd think the Mexican government would shape up what with moving closer to the US, but apparently the opposite happened. Maybe the American companies employing thousands of Mexican workers can make some sort of effort to protect at least their own employees. :?
True points, but Mexican drug war has killed more people in a year then in the entirety of the Troubles...so I am inclined to believe that these guys are a bit more insane.
But they were probably as well connected and armed, yeah.
As fucked up as the situation is, it's not very hard to see why people would go vigilante. Not a good situation, not saying it's right, but at this point I think they can claim self-defense as much as anything.
In America, you can rely on the system to go out and find the bad guy who killed your family and take them to jail. I've never been to Juarez, but I've heard about the police force south of the border. With all the complaints of police officers in America, boys down South make cops up here look like a Cub Scout troop.
So if these families can't expect help from the police departments what do you expect them to do? Start a neighborhood watch and have meetings once a month on how not to get killed? These people are pushed to the brink and respond in the only way they know how and that's with violence.
Once again, I'm not condoning this or saying it is the right thing to do, but I can understand how someone could end up the way they are.
U.S. cities with high crime rates aren't really comparable to the situation faced by cities like Juarez.
I'm pretty sure there are a number of cities in Iraq that are more under control that some of Mexico's cities right now.