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Posts

  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Pony wrote: »
    there are two types of fucking robots:

    fucking robots who are as intelligent and sapient as a human being


    fucking robots who aren't as intelligent and sapient as a human being, and have narrow functions and programming (ie, knowing how to fuck)

    i'm not comfortable with the latter, for obvious reasons (or at least, they should be obvious)

    i'm not comfortable with the former unless the robots are also considered full people and are consensually agreeing to do so

    because i am not down with slavery

    either way, the robots are getting some fun too.

    Xaquin on
  • NuzakNuzak Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Pony wrote: »
    FAQ wrote: »
    who cares

    john smith is an asshole anyway

    are you comfortable with his robotic duplicate running around being an asshole and saying he is john smith

    but he is john smith

    like you say

    he's got the same everything that makes up john smith

    therefore he is john smith

    Nuzak on
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Peter Ebel wrote: »
    What if they cut and paste instead of copy paste?

    does the "cut" not kill the person? Unless you believe in a soul or metaphysical consciousness, then the "cut" would end the life of the person being downloaded or whatever.

    it wouldn't feel like just going to sleep and waking up in a new robot body. not for you. instead, you'd just die.

    that's what i am hypothesizing. oh, sure, the "pasted" intelligence would consider itself you and would tell you it felt like just going to sleep, but that's just a duplicate emulating the person it was based on

    Pony on
  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Pony wrote: »
    Druhim wrote: »
    Pony wrote: »
    this is the problem i have with cybernetics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_theseus
    I don't see the problem
    your objection seems to be strictly philosophical over whether you're technically human or not
    who gives a fuck?

    I'm not saying there aren't other problems, but I don't see that in particular as an issue at all

    okay, say we have the technology to cybernetically replace or even augment a man's arm

    no big deal, dude's still the same dude

    then we replace his other arm, his legs, his heart, his entire digestive system, etc.

    until eventually he's just a brain in a robotic body

    is he still the same person?

    cognitively, most likely, as the brain is the center of what is "you"

    but then we start, bit by bit, replacing the brain with cybernetic implants

    sure, he's smarter, has faster response time, can wirelessly access computer systems almost like a telepath

    but at what point is he no longer the same guy at all?

    where does that line get crossed

    and it calls into question fundamental aspects of what we consider to be self-awareness

    would your self-awareness remain the same, would you remain the same consciousness, even if your consciousness was "downloaded" into a robot brain?

    or would you just die, and a perfect facsimile of you come into existence

    Throughout your life all of the cells in your body are replaced naturally.

    In fact, I'm sure it was said somewhere this takes only 7 years.

    The person you were when you were born is, by your definitions, dead. You are a new person down to the cellular level already, without the need for cybernetics.

    The_Scarab on
  • Run Run RunRun Run Run __BANNED USERS regular
    edited February 2009
    Pony wrote: »
    because i am not down with slavery

    How can it be slavery to you? Aren't you religous? (Jewish / Buddhist, right?).

    Without an actual soul it would still be a thing and every sentience it posseses would be a simulation in the end.

    Run Run Run on
    kissing.jpg
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    FAQ wrote: »
    what if you fuck the robot looks like a baby? is that immoral

    as far as i am concerned i'd put that in the same category as dudes who jerk it to cartoon child porn

    like, i don't think a crime is being committed because no child is actually being harmed there

    but it's still gross and makes them a sick fuck

    Pony on
  • HarrierHarrier The Star Spangled Man Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Pony wrote: »
    because i am not down with slavery

    How can it be slavery to you? Aren't you religous? (Jewish / Buddhist, right?).

    Without an actual soul it would still be a thing and every sentience it posseses would be a simulation in the end.
    Technically it would be a golem

    A sex golem

    Harrier on
    I don't wanna kill anybody. I don't like bullies. I don't care where they're from.
  • Run Run RunRun Run Run __BANNED USERS regular
    edited February 2009
    Another thought.

    What if they transferred your conscience into two different robots?

    Run Run Run on
    kissing.jpg
  • Peter EbelPeter Ebel CopenhagenRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Pony wrote: »
    Peter Ebel wrote: »
    What if they cut and paste instead of copy paste?

    does the "cut" not kill the person? Unless you believe in a soul or metaphysical consciousness, then the "cut" would end the life of the person being downloaded or whatever.

    it wouldn't feel like just going to sleep and waking up in a new robot body. not for you. instead, you'd just die.

    that's what i am hypothesizing. oh, sure, the "pasted" intelligence would consider itself you and would tell you it felt like just going to sleep, but that's just a duplicate emulating the person it was based on

    And now that you've told me my future digital conciousness is going to have Hell of guilt trips. Gee, thanks a lot, Pony.

    Peter Ebel on
    Fuck off and die.
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Pony wrote: »
    because i am not down with slavery

    How can it be slavery to you? Aren't you religous? (Jewish / Buddhist, right?).

    Without an actual soul it would still be a thing and every sentience it posseses would be a simulation in the end.

    i am of the personal belief that what defines us as self-aware persons isn't a magic soul exclusive to mankind.

    if you make an artificial person that has all the sapience and intelligence of a human being, you have created a person and as a person they have rights

    like the right to not be a sex slave

    Pony on
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Another thought.

    What if they transferred your conscience into two different robots?

    they've created two duplicates of you

    they aren't you

    you aren't them

    Pony on
  • iStevoiStevo Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Larlar wrote: »

    once the logorean program runs at 88 bits per second, enter this sequence of keys:

    @[=g3,8d]\&fbb=-q]/hk%fg

    followed by delete

    Is that Freakazoid?

    iStevo on
    ...I'm so hip, I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis.
  • tsplittertsplitter Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    think of all those poor hookers who would lose their jobs if people just bought robot sex slaves

    tsplitter on
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  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Ho! Ho! Ho! Drink Coke!Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    The question is whether true consciousness can be created artificially.

    Which then raises the question of what "true" consciousness is.

    Personally, I don't think humanity will ever be able to create an artificial consciousness, or that we will be able to somehow "transfer" consciousness from a natural construct to a synthetic one.

    Centipede Damascus on
  • HarrierHarrier The Star Spangled Man Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Pony is basically making all the points I would be making in this discussion, albeit without my gift for linguistic finesse.

    Harrier on
    I don't wanna kill anybody. I don't like bullies. I don't care where they're from.
  • NuzakNuzak Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Pony wrote: »
    Another thought.

    What if they transferred your conscience into two different robots?

    they've created two duplicates of you

    they aren't you

    you aren't them

    how are they not you?

    Nuzak on
  • FandyienFandyien But Otto, what about us? Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    this thread is stoned

    Fandyien on
    reposig.jpg
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    The question is whether true consciousness can be created artificially.

    Which then raises the question of what "true" consciousness is.

    Personally, I don't think humanity will ever be able to create an artificial consciousness, or that we will be able to somehow "transfer" consciousness from a natural construct to a synthetic one.

    i believe it can happen and, in the case of creating full artifical consciousness, will eventually happen

    so it creates ethical issues and philosophical conversations that should be had

    Pony on
  • BelruelBelruel NARUTO FUCKS Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    guys what if you were just crazy and carved a lady out of cheese, thought it was intelligent and made that your sex slave

    are you morally wrong there. it has no real intelligence, just what you gave it in your mind. but in your mind it is as human as anyone else.

    Belruel on
    vmn6rftb232b.png
  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Ho! Ho! Ho! Drink Coke!Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I love this thread.

    Centipede Damascus on
  • FandyienFandyien But Otto, what about us? Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Nothing is wrong ever

    Fandyien on
    reposig.jpg
  • MysstMysst King Monkey of Hedonism IslandRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Harrier wrote: »
    Pony is basically making all the points I would be making in this discussion, albeit without my gift for linguistic finesse.
    heavyarms.gif

    Mysst on
    ikbUJdU.jpg
  • Darkness MundusDarkness Mundus Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Paprika is a pretty sweet movie.

    Darkness Mundus on
  • NuzakNuzak Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Belruel wrote: »
    guys what if you were just crazy and carved a lady out of cheese, thought it was intelligent and made that your sex slave

    are you morally wrong there. it has no real intelligence, just what you gave it in your mind. but in your mind it is as human as anyone else.

    you've gone mad with power

    Nuzak on
  • MysstMysst King Monkey of Hedonism IslandRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Belruel wrote: »
    guys what if you were just crazy and carved a lady out of cheese, thought it was intelligent and made that your sex slave

    are you morally wrong there. it has no real intelligence, just what you gave it in your mind. but in your mind it is as human as anyone else.
    it's not as smart as a dog, though

    Mysst on
    ikbUJdU.jpg
  • Peter EbelPeter Ebel CopenhagenRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Let us say we potentially can create a wonderful intelligence through some other means than fucking. If we then make a lower form of intelligence, are we then denying that creation its rights?

    Peter Ebel on
    Fuck off and die.
  • BelruelBelruel NARUTO FUCKS Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Nuzak wrote: »
    Belruel wrote: »
    guys what if you were just crazy and carved a lady out of cheese, thought it was intelligent and made that your sex slave

    are you morally wrong there. it has no real intelligence, just what you gave it in your mind. but in your mind it is as human as anyone else.

    you've gone mad with power

    you've made inserts for the vagina out of various other cheeses.

    the gouda was your favorite

    Belruel on
    vmn6rftb232b.png
  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Ho! Ho! Ho! Drink Coke!Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Pony wrote: »
    The question is whether true consciousness can be created artificially.

    Which then raises the question of what "true" consciousness is.

    Personally, I don't think humanity will ever be able to create an artificial consciousness, or that we will be able to somehow "transfer" consciousness from a natural construct to a synthetic one.

    i believe it can happen and, in the case of creating full artifical consciousness, will eventually happen

    so it creates ethical issues and philosophical conversations that should be had

    I enjoy the philosophical conversations surrounding the issue even though I don't think it will eve be a real world problem.

    Because honestly, I don't have a real scientific reason why I think consciousness will never be artificially created. It's more of a philosophical or religious belief.

    Centipede Damascus on
  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Ho! Ho! Ho! Drink Coke!Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Paprika is a pretty sweet movie.

    That was a pretty crazy movie. I'm still not sure if there was anything that made sense beyond the pretty animation, but I probably just need to watch it again.

    Centipede Damascus on
  • NotASenatorNotASenator Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Pony wrote: »
    Pony wrote: »
    because i am not down with slavery

    How can it be slavery to you? Aren't you religous? (Jewish / Buddhist, right?).

    Without an actual soul it would still be a thing and every sentience it posseses would be a simulation in the end.

    i am of the personal belief that what defines us as self-aware persons isn't a magic soul exclusive to mankind.

    if you make an artificial person that has all the sapience and intelligence of a human being, you have created a person and as a person they have rights

    like the right to not be a sex slave

    What if it wants to be a sex slave? Is it still truly a slave then?

    NotASenator on
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Belruel wrote: »
    guys what if you were just crazy and carved a lady out of cheese, thought it was intelligent and made that your sex slave

    are you morally wrong there. it has no real intelligence, just what you gave it in your mind. but in your mind it is as human as anyone else.

    i don't believe morality is an objective force in the universe

    as a result

    if the person doesn't feel bad about fucking their strange cheese person despite believing they are intelligent

    it doesn't mean they're doing something immoral

    but they're the kind of person who should be watched because not only do they have some kind of weird schizophrenic break with reality, they don't feel particularly bad about it

    Pony on
  • Run Run RunRun Run Run __BANNED USERS regular
    edited February 2009
    Pony wrote: »
    Another thought.

    What if they transferred your conscience into two different robots?

    they've created two duplicates of you

    they aren't you

    you aren't them

    If they possess all my memories I'd argue they are me. Basically as I said, I do not believe us to be more than walking sacks of flesh.

    So the thing that would come even remotely to a metaphysical 'me' would be the sum of my memories.

    And if you copy them they are basically me, until 1 second later we had different experiences and would become different beings.

    Run Run Run on
    kissing.jpg
  • MrMonroeMrMonroe passed out on the floor nowRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Peter Ebel wrote: »
    Let us say we potentially can create a wonderful intelligence through some other means than fucking. If we then make a lower form of intelligence, are we then denying that creation its rights?

    What? Why? If my child is born with Down's Syndrome are his rights violated?

    MrMonroe on
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    NotACrook wrote: »
    Pony wrote: »
    Pony wrote: »
    because i am not down with slavery

    How can it be slavery to you? Aren't you religous? (Jewish / Buddhist, right?).

    Without an actual soul it would still be a thing and every sentience it posseses would be a simulation in the end.

    i am of the personal belief that what defines us as self-aware persons isn't a magic soul exclusive to mankind.

    if you make an artificial person that has all the sapience and intelligence of a human being, you have created a person and as a person they have rights

    like the right to not be a sex slave

    What if it wants to be a sex slave? Is it still truly a slave then?

    and that raises a further question about AI programming

    in creating an AI, are you going to allow it all the randomness the human brain allows for, or are you going "lean" the AI in a certain way so it wants to do certain things.

    are you going to make soldier robots who enjoy war, who feel it is their purpose to defend their country and fight the enemy?

    are you going to make prostibots who crave sex and feel it is something they need.

    if you're making a robot, it only has the "needs" that you create for it

    Pony on
  • DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    Pony wrote: »
    Druhim wrote: »
    Pony wrote: »
    Pony wrote: »
    Pony wrote: »
    a bunch of internet nerds get all woody about "the singularity" and brain implants and shit like that

    all i can think is

    wouldn't that just be like slowly killing yourself

    From an atheist's stand point no. Because 'You' don't even exist in the first place.

    It doesn't really matter if your body is completely made up of flesh or metal as long as your cyber brain is capable of the same functions as the original.

    let's say for example you don't believe in a soul or spirit or some other kind of remote quantity that makes you the person you are

    let's look at it from the cold standpoint of pure science: you are the person you think you are because your cognitive processes allow you to. you think therefore you are, simply because your brain is advanced enough to think such things.

    if that's the case, all that is you, your self-awareness, your sapience, is tied directly to the meat inside your skull

    if that's the case, and you replace all that meat with machine parts, who you are, your consciousness, has died and isn't carried on to the new machine. the machine simply emulates who you were, but is a completely different being.

    Well, there have been people who have had to have large amounts of their brain removed for various reasons and they remain the same person. On the other hand, some people with comparatively less brain damage lose all sense of who they are or lose their ability to think entirely. Generally speaking, it's a real mystery where the "self" resides in the mind, or whether the "self" exists in some way independant of the mind.

    It's scary as hell to think about, personally. I believe that the soul exists metaphysically rather than physically, but it still is scary to read stories about people who are in a car crash and become entirely different people.

    this is what i am saying

    these are pretty important questions when we live in an age where things like cybernetic brain augmentations are becoming possible

    old man otter might see it as pointless philosophical hand-wringing but it's kind of important to question how we actually cognitively perceive the self, especially if we're going to start dicking with the bits that most likely define those things
    except that what you're failing to consider is that the person that's appeared to change to everyone else still sees him as himself

    I've done considerable reading on the subject by doctors like Oliver Sacks, and one of the overarching themes is that even when someone suffers major brain trauma that seems to completely change the person from everyone else's perspective, or develops Alzheimers, Sacks has found that while the person is aware that others see them as different, they still have their self awareness and identify as themself.

    again, you aren't getting what i am saying

    i'm not talking about a guy with a single brain implant

    i'm talking about synthetic brains, or people trying to "upload" their consciousness to a robotic body

    if you are john smith, and you upload your brain patterns to a synthetic brain, the synthetic self is going to call itself john smith and believe it is john smith, because it has all the cerebral make-up that defines john smith as who he is.

    but he is not john smith. he's john's clone, at best.

    if john smith dies, he is dead. his robotic clone might live on, but the guy who was there originally is now dead.

    i think any rational person can see it that way

    now compare that "digital transfer" to something like slowly over time replacing your brain with synthetic parts

    would there be a true transfer of the self, or are you just slowly killing john smith and creating a duplicate?

    that's the whole ship of theseus thing
    no, I get exactly what you're saying
    it's pretty fucking clear that you're the one that doesn't understand

    my point is quite fucking simple
    if it thinks it is John Smith, then where's the fucking problem?
    sense of self is intact, crisis averted
    the only problem is external, how you define John Smith as an observer and your insistence that he's not just because he has a different body
    whereas I don't really care if he is or isn't, as long as he has a self identity and is able to cope

    Druhim on
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  • Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited February 2009
    Look all I'm saying is I want a robot without the ability to think for itself that will just do what I tell it to do

    Namely, blow shit up and make me sandwiches

    Me Too! on
  • MysstMysst King Monkey of Hedonism IslandRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    pony it's people like you why we can't have nice things like sexbots and robo urinals

    Mysst on
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  • MeizMeiz Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I say sex bots will cure this pesky population problem we have.

    Meiz on
  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Ho! Ho! Ho! Drink Coke!Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    the thing is, if your memories and mannerisms are copied or reproduced in a clone or robot or whatever

    what differentiates that from you?

    what else is quantifiably you besides those memories and mannerisms?

    Centipede Damascus on
  • Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited February 2009
    If I'm all like hey Destructo 9000 make me a pastrami on rye and then blow up that car over there with your death laser Destructo 9000 better fucking hop to it

    Me Too! on
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