Change it so that crit balls only work after a certain amount of distance.
Lower the stun time against ubers by 25%
Make the ball stun consistently, fix it 'bouncing off' of enemeis.
If you don't like Valve's policy with their newly created free content for their game that they sold out as a part of a ridiculous bargain (Orange Box), you should either stop playing or stop whining.
And frankly, tying achievements to unlocks is dumb and completely ruins the dynamic of the game for days after the update. I mean, it's been over a week now and PA servers still have half scoot teams.
No, it doesn't and no they don't
Last three or four times I've played have had even teams in terms of classes.
It's the unlocker the ruins the dynamic, because you got people with all 3 in hour 1, and people just grinding to try and get these unlocks so they can catch up
But hey, completely ignore my post and keep making the same points, that's cool, not like I expected any decent debate from the Penny Arcade forums
I guess I should play when you play because I joined a server last night that still had 4+ scoots on my team.
As to not ruining the dynamic of the game: yeah, you're right. It's a lot of fun to play a game about teamwork when half the team would rather run around and grind out the achievements.
If you don't like Valve's policy with their newly created free content for their game that they sold out as a part of a ridiculous bargain (Orange Box), you should either stop playing or stop whining.
There's nothing I love more than the attitude that telling a company you don't like their policies makes you a whiner and you should just shut up.
EDIT: Well, not that we're telling the company here. But continuing the debate certainly keeps awareness up that many, many people are unhappy with their chosen path.
If you don't like Valve's policy with their newly created free content for their game that they sold out as a part of a ridiculous bargain (Orange Box), you should either stop playing or stop whining.
There's nothing I love more than the attitude that telling a company you don't like their policies makes you a whiner and you should just shut up.
EDIT: Well, not that we're telling the company here. But continuing the debate certainly keeps awareness up that many, many people are unhappy with their chosen path.
My view on the things is that they're not supposed to be 'unlockables', per se- you're not supposed to see them, go 'OMG MUST HAVE', and rush to get them- rather, what Valve is aiming at (or appears to be aiming at) is that they should be rewards- you do a bunch of zany things and eventually you get a thing that helps you do more zany things, all of which are completely unnecessary. This is how I've treated them so far and it's worked fine for me, and it's true for most of them- while there have been times where I've used the KGB or backburner or whatever really well and noticed a difference, most of the time I could've done just as well with the conventional ones.
Yes, there's outlying cases like the Blutsauger, but I believe that was an honest oversight; they overvalued crits on the needlegun. 90% of the unlockables aren't significantly better than the regular guns and most are worst except in bizarre gimmick situations.
(In fact, one post I saw somewhere suggested what I thought was a pretty good fix for the medic unlockables- switch the negative effects of the blutsager and the ubersaw, so the blutsauger shoots slower and the ubersaw can't crit. But that's another thing entirely.)
If you don't like Valve's policy with their newly created free content for their game that they sold out as a part of a ridiculous bargain (Orange Box), you should either stop playing or stop whining.
There's nothing I love more than the attitude that telling a company you don't like their policies makes you a whiner and you should just shut up.
EDIT: Well, not that we're telling the company here. But continuing the debate certainly keeps awareness up that many, many people are unhappy with their chosen path.
Who's he talking to, anyway?
Pretentious who are you talking to.
Oh, and telling me to stop playing a game that I can't resell? That's just precious. Makes perfect sense.
If you don't like Valve's policy with their newly created free content for their game that they sold out as a part of a ridiculous bargain (Orange Box), you should either stop playing or stop whining.
There's nothing I love more than the attitude that telling a company you don't like their policies makes you a whiner and you should just shut up.
EDIT: Well, not that we're telling the company here. But continuing the debate certainly keeps awareness up that many, many people are unhappy with their chosen path.
Who's he talking to, anyway?
Pretentious who are you talking to.
Oh, and telling me to stop playing a game that I can't resell? That's just precious. Makes perfect sense.
Well he's right, you can technically stop playing if you want. But I'm not even a part of this argument because I earned my Pyro achievements and I enjoyed it.
Is a man not entitled to the unlockables on his brow?
My view on the things is that they're not supposed to be 'unlockables', per se- you're not supposed to see them, go 'OMG MUST HAVE', and rush to get them- rather, what Valve is aiming at (or appears to be aiming at) is that they should be rewards- you do a bunch of zany things and eventually you get a thing that helps you do more zany things, all of which are completely unnecessary. This is how I've treated them so far and it's worked fine for me, and it's true for most of them- while there have been times where I've used the KGB or backburner or whatever really well and noticed a difference, most of the time I could've done just as well with the conventional ones.
Yes, there's outlying cases like the Blutsauger, but I believe that was an honest oversight; they overvalued crits on the needlegun. 90% of the unlockables aren't significantly better than the regular guns and most are worst except in bizarre gimmick situations.
(In fact, one post I saw somewhere suggested what I thought was a pretty good fix for the medic unlockables- switch the negative effects of the blutsager and the ubersaw, so the blutsauger shoots slower and the ubersaw can't crit. But that's another thing entirely.)
Clearly Valve does not share your view since the blut and the ubersaw are still way better than their original counterparts. Hardly sidegrades at all.
My view on the things is that they're not supposed to be 'unlockables', per se- you're not supposed to see them, go 'OMG MUST HAVE', and rush to get them- rather, what Valve is aiming at (or appears to be aiming at) is that they should be rewards- you do a bunch of zany things and eventually you get a thing that helps you do more zany things, all of which are completely unnecessary. This is how I've treated them so far and it's worked fine for me, and it's true for most of them- while there have been times where I've used the KGB or backburner or whatever really well and noticed a difference, most of the time I could've done just as well with the conventional ones.
A) encouraging people to do "zany things" in a team game is a bad idea right off the bat the point of the Backburner and Natascha (and the Kritzkreig) is to allow for an entirely different playstyle, not to either "do zany thing" or to be objectively better. I've used the shit out of the Backburner, and had a lot of fun doing it...you just play an entirely different type of Pyro when you have it equipped.
Also, if not getting people to rush to have them is what Valve is aiming at, they missed.
Well he's right, you can technically stop playing if you want.
Of course I can. But by creating a system where I cannot ever resell the game, they've made me a permanent stakeholder in the policies they choose for that game.
^^^^^ people are going to do nonsense in games anyway barring the highest levels of competitive gameplay (and who cares what those loonies think anyway); and plenty of people aren't rushing for them. Remember, not everyone plays the game the way you do.
So because 2 of the weapons out of the 12 currently available are better than the originals- and two which, might I add, were in the first pack they never did when they weren't as experienced in this malarkey- this clearly invalidates my entire point. Including the bit where valve's PR statements have been that they're supposed to be sidegrades.
If you don't like Valve's policy with their newly created free content for their game that they sold out as a part of a ridiculous bargain (Orange Box), you should either stop playing or stop whining.
There's nothing I love more than the attitude that telling a company you don't like their policies makes you a whiner and you should just shut up.
EDIT: Well, not that we're telling the company here. But continuing the debate certainly keeps awareness up that many, many people are unhappy with their chosen path.
What makes you a whiner is that the policy in question is an inarguably good thing with no downsides, and you are complaining that it's not better
"Better," in this case, being a personal and subjective concept as well.
My view on the things is that they're not supposed to be 'unlockables', per se- you're not supposed to see them, go 'OMG MUST HAVE', and rush to get them- rather, what Valve is aiming at (or appears to be aiming at) is that they should be rewards- you do a bunch of zany things and eventually you get a thing that helps you do more zany things, all of which are completely unnecessary. This is how I've treated them so far and it's worked fine for me, and it's true for most of them- while there have been times where I've used the KGB or backburner or whatever really well and noticed a difference, most of the time I could've done just as well with the conventional ones.
Yes, there's outlying cases like the Blutsauger, but I believe that was an honest oversight; they overvalued crits on the needlegun. 90% of the unlockables aren't significantly better than the regular guns and most are worst except in bizarre gimmick situations.
(In fact, one post I saw somewhere suggested what I thought was a pretty good fix for the medic unlockables- switch the negative effects of the blutsager and the ubersaw, so the blutsauger shoots slower and the ubersaw can't crit. But that's another thing entirely.)
Clearly Valve does not share your view since the blut and the ubersaw are still way better than their original counterparts. Hardly sidegrades at all.
My view on the things is that they're not supposed to be 'unlockables', per se- you're not supposed to see them, go 'OMG MUST HAVE', and rush to get them- rather, what Valve is aiming at (or appears to be aiming at) is that they should be rewards- you do a bunch of zany things and eventually you get a thing that helps you do more zany things, all of which are completely unnecessary. This is how I've treated them so far and it's worked fine for me, and it's true for most of them- while there have been times where I've used the KGB or backburner or whatever really well and noticed a difference, most of the time I could've done just as well with the conventional ones.
A) encouraging people to do "zany things" in a team game is a bad idea right off the bat the point of the Backburner and Natascha (and the Kritzkreig) is to allow for an entirely different playstyle, not to either "do zany thing" or to be objectively better. I've used the shit out of the Backburner, and had a lot of fun doing it...you just play an entirely different type of Pyro when you have it equipped.
Also, if not getting people to rush to have them is what Valve is aiming at, they missed.
Well he's right, you can technically stop playing if you want.
Of course I can. But by creating a system where I cannot ever resell the game, they've made me a permanent stakeholder in the policies they choose for that game.
Zany things like, capping intel, block caps, stopping carts, and other non-objective things!
So much bitching and whining. Isn't this what official game forums are for? I think everyone gets what everyone elses opinion on the matter is at this point. Call me when Zoidberg posts some more comedy gold.
^^^^^ people are going to do nonsense in games anyway barring the highest levels of competitive gameplay (and who cares what those loonies think anyway); and plenty of people aren't rushing for them. Remember, not everyone plays the game the way you do.
So because 2 of the weapons out of the 12 currently available are better than the originals- and two which, might I add, were in the first pack they never did when they weren't as experienced in this malarkey- this clearly invalidates my entire point. Including the bit where valve's PR statements have been that they're supposed to be sidegrades.
^^^ probably because if they did nerf them the forums would burst into a river of flame, they'd never hear the end of it, and they're afraid of the backlash
Yeah, seriously, didn't they start a seperate topic for this nonsense again?
Whatever, past this line I refuse to comment any further on the subject.
@Arkan
Even if the unlocks were perfectly balanced with the standards, not having them still hurt your flexibility. The thing I don't get is... TF2 is all about flexibility -- that's why you can change classes midgame with no/low penalty. Its basically TF2's gimmick. People who can play more classes -- and in this case, equip those classes most appropriately -- will always have an advantage over those who can not.
Since this is a PvP game where balance is paramount, I can't pretend to see the logic behind tying variables to an achievement system. Personally I like achievements, but I hate feeling like I have to get them just to be on equal footing. I have the same issues with most MMO PvP which is why I don't really participate there anymore.
Valve did a lot of work making creative achievements and creating new equips, but not in the tying of the two together. To unlock everything for each updated class would be almost (if not simply) impossible just through good play on the way the maps are supposed to be played. Without farming or unlocks, you have to become a (temporary) liability to a team somewhere, just so you can become an asset later with full equip options.
Tag on
Overwatch: TomFoolery#1388 Black Desert: Family Name: Foolery. Characters: Tome & Beerserk.
(Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
(Retired) Let's Play: Lone Wolf
@Arkan
Even if the unlocks were perfectly balanced with the standards, not having them still hurt your flexibility. The thing I don't get is... TF2 is all about flexibility -- that's why you can change classes midgame with no/low penalty. Its basically TF2's gimmick. People who can play more classes -- and in this case, equip those classes most appropriately -- will always have an advantage over those who can not.
Since this is a PvP game where balance is paramount, I can't pretend to see the logic behind tying variables to an achievement system. Personally I like achievements, but I hate feeling like I have to get them just to be on equal footing. I have the same issues with most MMO PvP which is why I don't really participate there anymore.
Valve did a lot of work making creative achievements and creating new equips, but not in the tying of the two together. To unlock everything for each updated class would be almost (if not simply) impossible just through good play on the way the maps are supposed to be played. Without farming or unlocks, you have to become a (temporary) liability to a team somewhere, just so you can become an asset later with full equip options.
There's nothing different you have to do from anyone else to get those unlocks, except the unlocker, which unbalances the entire dynamic you're talking about
But hey, lets keep talking as if the unlocks are something only special people get, that helps!
I think he may have just been fucking around, I ran into him spy crabbing on the next match, and broke the golden rule and axtinguished him for my own self satisfaction.
Is there some kind of unspoken rule against using the axtinguisher on PA servers?
I think he may have just been fucking around, I ran into him spy crabbing on the next match, and broke the golden rule and axtinguished him for my own self satisfaction.
Is there some kind of unspoken rule against using the axtinguisher on PA servers?
I think the rule he was referring to was "Don't kill spycrabs".
I never said difficult. I said "impossible to get through good play on the way the maps are supposed to be played." Once you're primary concern is no longer the objective of the map, why not just achievement farm?
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(Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
(Retired) Let's Play: Lone Wolf
My view on the things is that they're not supposed to be 'unlockables', per se- you're not supposed to see them, go 'OMG MUST HAVE', and rush to get them- rather, what Valve is aiming at (or appears to be aiming at) is that they should be rewards- you do a bunch of zany things and eventually you get a thing that helps you do more zany things, all of which are completely unnecessary. This is how I've treated them so far and it's worked fine for me, and it's true for most of them- while there have been times where I've used the KGB or backburner or whatever really well and noticed a difference, most of the time I could've done just as well with the conventional ones.
A) encouraging people to do "zany things" in a team game is a bad idea right off the bat the point of the Backburner and Natascha (and the Kritzkreig) is to allow for an entirely different playstyle, not to either "do zany thing" or to be objectively better. I've used the shit out of the Backburner, and had a lot of fun doing it...you just play an entirely different type of Pyro when you have it equipped.
Also, if not getting people to rush to have them is what Valve is aiming at, they missed.
Well he's right, you can technically stop playing if you want.
Of course I can. But by creating a system where I cannot ever resell the game, they've made me a permanent stakeholder in the policies they choose for that game.
Zany things like, capping intel, block caps, stopping carts, and other non-objective things!
For starters, I was quoting the person I was replying to with the "zany things" line.
But, amazingly, sometimes these things you list which are in general helpful are not necessarily the most helpful thing for a given individual scout (or pyro, or heavy) to be doing for the team. For instance, hitting a guy pushing the cart with the sandman is generally going to be a good thing, but there are many many times where there is something else even better that you could be doing if you weren't trying to grind for the achievement. Same for blocking caps. Or for most of the achievement criteria.
A lot of otherwise helpful and productive things can become counterproductive when an individual on the team feels the need to constantly try to do them himself so that he can get an unlock.
My view on the things is that they're not supposed to be 'unlockables', per se- you're not supposed to see them, go 'OMG MUST HAVE', and rush to get them- rather, what Valve is aiming at (or appears to be aiming at) is that they should be rewards- you do a bunch of zany things and eventually you get a thing that helps you do more zany things, all of which are completely unnecessary. This is how I've treated them so far and it's worked fine for me, and it's true for most of them- while there have been times where I've used the KGB or backburner or whatever really well and noticed a difference, most of the time I could've done just as well with the conventional ones.
A) encouraging people to do "zany things" in a team game is a bad idea right off the bat the point of the Backburner and Natascha (and the Kritzkreig) is to allow for an entirely different playstyle, not to either "do zany thing" or to be objectively better. I've used the shit out of the Backburner, and had a lot of fun doing it...you just play an entirely different type of Pyro when you have it equipped.
Also, if not getting people to rush to have them is what Valve is aiming at, they missed.
Well he's right, you can technically stop playing if you want.
Of course I can. But by creating a system where I cannot ever resell the game, they've made me a permanent stakeholder in the policies they choose for that game.
Zany things like, capping intel, block caps, stopping carts, and other non-objective things!
For starters, I was quoting the person I was replying to with the "zany things" line.
But, amazingly, sometimes these things you list which are in general helpful are not necessarily the most helpful thing for a given individual scout (or pyro, or heavy) to be doing for the team. For instance, hitting a guy pushing the cart with the sandman is generally going to be a good thing, but there are many many times where there is something else even better that you could be doing if you weren't trying to grind for the achievement. Same for blocking caps. Or for most of the achievement criteria.
A lot of otherwise helpful and productive things can become counterproductive when an individual on the team feels the need to constantly try to do them himself so that he can get an unlock.
So you're saying doing helpful things is not being helpful because you could be doing other helpful things
And you cited one situational example for this
^^^ probably because if they did nerf them the forums would burst into a river of flame, they'd never hear the end of it, and they're afraid of the backlash
Just pointing out that I don't really think Valve much cares about backlash over tweaking a couple items. They went and did something that's got quite a fair share of the community with bundled panties, and as such I just can't see them not doing something because they're scared. That just isn't how Valve handles things, y'know?
If they want to go ahead and make their game with artificial longevity, by all means, its their right. I've never liked achievements and probably never will. Does it keep me from playing their game for a hojillion hours? Nope.
The game is already fucked up enough when the updates roll out that it really doesn't make a huge difference if some people get the items and some people don't. By the time the numbers start thinning down in terms of people playing the same class, everyone has the items anyway. Not to mention that most of the achievements in the scout update that don't require the use of a specific unlockable are of the grindy variety. Not all of them, but there are more than makes sense, if they're the ones that are supposed to be over time.
Really, in the end, after a week of everyone playing with their new toys and all, and the dust settles and everyone's back to playing their old classes and getting used to the new dynamics introduced, it doesn't fucking matter.
This sure makes for exciting and entertaining reading.
edit: by the way, what is it with people being unable to argue about the acheivements without drawing absolutely terrible analogies? Like some are really quite inventively bad.
Slapped one of my sequences here to see how it linked. I have never had to upload images in a sequence before ( in terms of being easily viewable as an archive ), so does anyone have any recommendations on a good site to use?
This sure makes for exciting and entertaining reading.
edit: by the way, what is it with people being unable to argue about the acheivements without drawing absolutely terrible analogies? Like some are really quite inventively bad.
Flippy your sniping is like, like a pizza, with mushrooms? But the mushrooms are actually tiny cars, and these cars are being driven around the pizza by blind people.
Slapped one of my sequences here to see how it linked. I have never had to upload images in a sequence before ( in terms of being easily viewable as an archive ), so does anyone have any recommendations on a good site to use?
This sure makes for exciting and entertaining reading.
Your Steam thread complaining about snipers is much more entertaining.
Do you troll everyone or is it just me?
'Cause, you know... it's not complaining. I am pretty sure you haven't read it, or if you have you're just thinking what you want to think.
Also I'm certain that me making that topic rather qualifies it as the primary topic of conversation, whereas this is just a dull as fuck argument where nobody changes their mind about a single aspect of the game that has gone on for pages and pages and pages.
This sure makes for exciting and entertaining reading.
edit: by the way, what is it with people being unable to argue about the acheivements without drawing absolutely terrible analogies? Like some are really quite inventively bad.
Flippy your sniping is like, like a pizza, with mushrooms? But the mushrooms are actually tiny cars, and these cars are being driven around the pizza by blind people.
I hear if you use the unlocker it's like smacking an elephant in the kneecap with a white-hot iron, except the elephant is Valve and you are a house.
I have to play a class to establish my experience with said class before I am able to take advantage of side-grade items meant to denote my experience?
WAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH *SOB* *SOB*
IT ISN'T FAIR THAT THERE IS CONTENT I AM UNABLE TO ACCESS UNTIL I PERFORM IN A MANNER VERY CLOSELY LIKENED TO AN EXPERIENCED PLAYER OF THAT CLASS BY COMPLETING SPECIFIC OBJECTIVES! IT DOESN'T EVEN FEEL REWARDING IN THE LEAST WHEN I KNOW THAT I HAVE LEGITIMATELY FLARE GUNNED 100 PEOPLE OR BONESAWED MANY SPIES! I WANT THE NEW SHINY TOY NOW I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE TO EARN IT THROUGH LEGITIMATE GAMEPLAY!
this is all I hear when anyone complains about Valve's policy toward tf2.
1) Everything unlocked by default, achievements just for fun.
2) A statement that using an unlocker is a-ok.
3) A consistently enforced ban on unlockers.
4) A sometimes enforced ban on unlockers.
I'm not a huge fan of being forced to take the safe road and use a horrid achievements server while some get away scot-free using the officially frowned upon unlocker.
For the Pyro and Heavy updates it wasn't too bad. Getting all of the achievements in normal play didn't take too long. But with the scout one there are bugged achievements (use the FAN to cause an environmental death, start capping a point as soon as it's unlocked) as well as achievements that are basically impossible to get in normal play (cause an environmental death with the Sandman stun, hit someone with the sandman taunt, cap the intel without firing a shot, cap the intel 3 times in a round), encourage bad play (block a point capture a lot, kill people while ubered) and grindy achievements (25 caps, 50 blocks, 2004 kills, 25 stuns on ubercharge, 50 stun kills, run 25 km). There's enough annoying to obtain achievements that I still only had the awful Force-A-Nature after 7 hours of play. I was playing scout even when I was sick of it, just to try and get achievements. That's when I just gave up and joined an achievements server.
*throws entire point out the window*
*wipes hands*
Well that fixed that!
edit:
I'll elaborate. Recently, TF2 activity has picked up a lot. Using PA as an example, a lot of people came back from L4D and now play it more consistently. Why do you think this is? Do you think Valve did not anticipate this? The achievements are as they to lengthen gameplay and to give individuals goals within a team-goal environment. The achievements, like the 'grindy' ones you mention, aren't meant to be "grinded" but will come to an individual over time. I also like how you think blocking a point is encouraging bad play. And I have yet to run into any broken achievements. Some, like the taunt insta-kill, are obvious gimmick achievements that are there for fun. You remember fun don't you? The achievements, combined with staged unlocks, draws in players for a longer time and keeps them playing the game, with the gameplay being altered slightly with each sets of unlocks (like the kritzkrieg, heavies having to fear the bonk, backblast giving more credence to ambushy pyros).
Valve punish people who circumvent this entire system because 1) They don't really care about playing the game long term, so fuck em 2) It's altering game files for unintended purposes 3) Fuck em.
Use the unlocker, I really couldn't care, but it's pretty much a backhanded insult to Valve if you do. These guys work on this, intend for it to be done a certain way, and it ends up being "GIMME GIMME GIMMEEEE *gets bored* *flames message boards*"
I think people play more after an update because of all the fun new toys, maps and amusing scout dialogue. And it's fine to have some grindy and fun but hard to get achievements, but the problem comes when they stack up with the bugged or poorly thought out ones to create a wall of annoyingness between me and the real meat of the update.
Besides, PA has had a large and stable TF2 base for a long time before any achievement-based unlocks came out.
Blocking the point is bad scout play because it forces the scout to run up to close to enemies in a small area and stay there. It takes away your mobility advantage and gets you killed in short order. A better way to deal with people taking your point is to keep your mobility and move around it, popping in and out of cover to kill the people taking it, then re-taking with x2 it if it's lost in the process.
And people who circumvent the achievement requirements don't care about the game long-term? What? I played TF2 incessantly before any sort of unlocks were in place, and after I had gotten all the normal achievements. I'm playing it now, after I've gotten all the scout unlocks. Because the game itself is fun.
RandomEngy on
Profile -> Signature Settings -> Hide signatures always. Then you don't have to read this worthless text anymore.
This sure makes for exciting and entertaining reading.
edit: by the way, what is it with people being unable to argue about the acheivements without drawing absolutely terrible analogies? Like some are really quite inventively bad.
Flippy your sniping is like, like a pizza, with mushrooms? But the mushrooms are actually tiny cars, and these cars are being driven around the pizza by blind people.
I hear if you use the unlocker it's like smacking an elephant in the kneecap with a white-hot iron, except the elephant is Valve and you are a house.
I'm just saying, some people don't like mushrooms on their pizza, some people do, but everyone can agree that blind people should not drive cars. I think my point is very clear.
Posts
This is not zany enough.
I guess I should play when you play because I joined a server last night that still had 4+ scoots on my team.
As to not ruining the dynamic of the game: yeah, you're right. It's a lot of fun to play a game about teamwork when half the team would rather run around and grind out the achievements.
There's nothing I love more than the attitude that telling a company you don't like their policies makes you a whiner and you should just shut up.
EDIT: Well, not that we're telling the company here. But continuing the debate certainly keeps awareness up that many, many people are unhappy with their chosen path.
Who's he talking to, anyway?
Pretentious who are you talking to.
Yes, there's outlying cases like the Blutsauger, but I believe that was an honest oversight; they overvalued crits on the needlegun. 90% of the unlockables aren't significantly better than the regular guns and most are worst except in bizarre gimmick situations.
(In fact, one post I saw somewhere suggested what I thought was a pretty good fix for the medic unlockables- switch the negative effects of the blutsager and the ubersaw, so the blutsauger shoots slower and the ubersaw can't crit. But that's another thing entirely.)
Oh, and telling me to stop playing a game that I can't resell? That's just precious. Makes perfect sense.
Well he's right, you can technically stop playing if you want. But I'm not even a part of this argument because I earned my Pyro achievements and I enjoyed it.
Is a man not entitled to the unlockables on his brow?
A) encouraging people to do "zany things" in a team game is a bad idea right off the bat
Also, if not getting people to rush to have them is what Valve is aiming at, they missed.
Of course I can. But by creating a system where I cannot ever resell the game, they've made me a permanent stakeholder in the policies they choose for that game.
So because 2 of the weapons out of the 12 currently available are better than the originals- and two which, might I add, were in the first pack they never did when they weren't as experienced in this malarkey- this clearly invalidates my entire point. Including the bit where valve's PR statements have been that they're supposed to be sidegrades.
Yeah.
Uh huh.
What makes you a whiner is that the policy in question is an inarguably good thing with no downsides, and you are complaining that it's not better
"Better," in this case, being a personal and subjective concept as well.
And the 10 other unlocks?
Zany things like, capping intel, block caps, stopping carts, and other non-objective things!
Yeah, the first pack.
And they still haven't been rebalanced.
Yeah.
Yeah, seriously, didn't they start a seperate topic for this nonsense again?
Whatever, past this line I refuse to comment any further on the subject.
__________________________________________________ (this one)
Even if the unlocks were perfectly balanced with the standards, not having them still hurt your flexibility. The thing I don't get is... TF2 is all about flexibility -- that's why you can change classes midgame with no/low penalty. Its basically TF2's gimmick. People who can play more classes -- and in this case, equip those classes most appropriately -- will always have an advantage over those who can not.
Since this is a PvP game where balance is paramount, I can't pretend to see the logic behind tying variables to an achievement system. Personally I like achievements, but I hate feeling like I have to get them just to be on equal footing. I have the same issues with most MMO PvP which is why I don't really participate there anymore.
Valve did a lot of work making creative achievements and creating new equips, but not in the tying of the two together. To unlock everything for each updated class would be almost (if not simply) impossible just through good play on the way the maps are supposed to be played. Without farming or unlocks, you have to become a (temporary) liability to a team somewhere, just so you can become an asset later with full equip options.
Black Desert: Family Name: Foolery. Characters: Tome & Beerserk.
(Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
(Retired) Let's Play: Lone Wolf
There's nothing different you have to do from anyone else to get those unlocks, except the unlocker, which unbalances the entire dynamic you're talking about
But hey, lets keep talking as if the unlocks are something only special people get, that helps!
Is there some kind of unspoken rule against using the axtinguisher on PA servers?
I think the rule he was referring to was "Don't kill spycrabs".
Black Desert: Family Name: Foolery. Characters: Tome & Beerserk.
(Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
(Retired) Let's Play: Lone Wolf
For starters, I was quoting the person I was replying to with the "zany things" line.
But, amazingly, sometimes these things you list which are in general helpful are not necessarily the most helpful thing for a given individual scout (or pyro, or heavy) to be doing for the team. For instance, hitting a guy pushing the cart with the sandman is generally going to be a good thing, but there are many many times where there is something else even better that you could be doing if you weren't trying to grind for the achievement. Same for blocking caps. Or for most of the achievement criteria.
A lot of otherwise helpful and productive things can become counterproductive when an individual on the team feels the need to constantly try to do them himself so that he can get an unlock.
And laugh and laugh and laugh.
So you're saying doing helpful things is not being helpful because you could be doing other helpful things
And you cited one situational example for this
Just pointing out that I don't really think Valve much cares about backlash over tweaking a couple items. They went and did something that's got quite a fair share of the community with bundled panties, and as such I just can't see them not doing something because they're scared. That just isn't how Valve handles things, y'know?
If they want to go ahead and make their game with artificial longevity, by all means, its their right. I've never liked achievements and probably never will. Does it keep me from playing their game for a hojillion hours? Nope.
The game is already fucked up enough when the updates roll out that it really doesn't make a huge difference if some people get the items and some people don't. By the time the numbers start thinning down in terms of people playing the same class, everyone has the items anyway. Not to mention that most of the achievements in the scout update that don't require the use of a specific unlockable are of the grindy variety. Not all of them, but there are more than makes sense, if they're the ones that are supposed to be over time.
Really, in the end, after a week of everyone playing with their new toys and all, and the dust settles and everyone's back to playing their old classes and getting used to the new dynamics introduced, it doesn't fucking matter.
tl;dr - fuck you guys i'm playing tf2.
edit: by the way, what is it with people being unable to argue about the acheivements without drawing absolutely terrible analogies? Like some are really quite inventively bad.
Your Steam thread complaining about snipers is much more entertaining.
Slapped one of my sequences here to see how it linked. I have never had to upload images in a sequence before ( in terms of being easily viewable as an archive ), so does anyone have any recommendations on a good site to use?
Flippy your sniping is like, like a pizza, with mushrooms? But the mushrooms are actually tiny cars, and these cars are being driven around the pizza by blind people.
You could just make them panels in one image.
Or make a gif.
Do you troll everyone or is it just me?
'Cause, you know... it's not complaining. I am pretty sure you haven't read it, or if you have you're just thinking what you want to think.
Also I'm certain that me making that topic rather qualifies it as the primary topic of conversation, whereas this is just a dull as fuck argument where nobody changes their mind about a single aspect of the game that has gone on for pages and pages and pages.
I hear if you use the unlocker it's like smacking an elephant in the kneecap with a white-hot iron, except the elephant is Valve and you are a house.
Bonk.
WAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH *SOB* *SOB*
IT ISN'T FAIR THAT THERE IS CONTENT I AM UNABLE TO ACCESS UNTIL I PERFORM IN A MANNER VERY CLOSELY LIKENED TO AN EXPERIENCED PLAYER OF THAT CLASS BY COMPLETING SPECIFIC OBJECTIVES! IT DOESN'T EVEN FEEL REWARDING IN THE LEAST WHEN I KNOW THAT I HAVE LEGITIMATELY FLARE GUNNED 100 PEOPLE OR BONESAWED MANY SPIES! I WANT THE NEW SHINY TOY NOW I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE TO EARN IT THROUGH LEGITIMATE GAMEPLAY!
this is all I hear when anyone complains about Valve's policy toward tf2.
I wrote a poem for you:
g
ood means bein
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a person who is
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ot one to complai
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yet rolls with the punche
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I think people play more after an update because of all the fun new toys, maps and amusing scout dialogue. And it's fine to have some grindy and fun but hard to get achievements, but the problem comes when they stack up with the bugged or poorly thought out ones to create a wall of annoyingness between me and the real meat of the update.
Besides, PA has had a large and stable TF2 base for a long time before any achievement-based unlocks came out.
Blocking the point is bad scout play because it forces the scout to run up to close to enemies in a small area and stay there. It takes away your mobility advantage and gets you killed in short order. A better way to deal with people taking your point is to keep your mobility and move around it, popping in and out of cover to kill the people taking it, then re-taking with x2 it if it's lost in the process.
And people who circumvent the achievement requirements don't care about the game long-term? What? I played TF2 incessantly before any sort of unlocks were in place, and after I had gotten all the normal achievements. I'm playing it now, after I've gotten all the scout unlocks. Because the game itself is fun.
I'm just saying, some people don't like mushrooms on their pizza, some people do, but everyone can agree that blind people should not drive cars. I think my point is very clear.
I see what you did there :rotate: