The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
Evolution and the Bible
russia32
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Despite the Subject, this thread is intended to be a broad discussion on the logical fallacies of religion and also the failings of science. I am seeking the input of spiritual people as well as more earthly people.
Is it possible to believe in evolution and the Bible?
If you think so, explain how. Personally, I do not believe this to be possible unless you are taking the Bible figuratively instead of literally, which is not what I believe is intended. The Bible is very specific in various aspects.
Building on the last question. How is it possible to deny evolution? The proof truly is before your eyes. Look at the structural similarities between a human and any living primate. We are beginning to see even deeper signs in DNA. Knowing this, how is it possible to take any religious book seriously? And yet billions of humans do.
Next I have some questions for the religious people.
If the Bible is correct and evolution is nonsense, then why do animals such as chimpanzees exist? Why have dinosaurs existed? What is the purpose of all these absurd life forms? Even human beings are very absurd. Look at any human. It really is a strange creature.
Next. Geographically, Jesus was limited to a small piece of Earth in the middle east. What of the millions who were simply too far away to ever hear of his message? The Asians and Native Americans. Have they gone to Hell for isolation? They were worshiping several gods.
And now I have one question for people like me who believe in science. Science completely fails to explain a purpose for existence. Are you content knowing that you will simply not know - perhaps until death? Surely there is a purpose. I would find the lack of a purpose even more absurd than there being one, wouldn't you?
Is it possible to believe in evolution and the Bible?
If you think so, explain how. Personally, I do not believe this to be possible unless you are taking the Bible figuratively instead of literally, which is not what I believe is intended. The Bible is very specific in various aspects.
Building on the last question. How is it possible to deny evolution? The proof truly is before your eyes. Look at the structural similarities between a human and any living primate. We are beginning to see even deeper signs in DNA. Knowing this, how is it possible to take any religious book seriously? And yet billions of humans do.
Next I have some questions for the religious people.
If the Bible is correct and evolution is nonsense, then why do animals such as chimpanzees exist? Why have dinosaurs existed? What is the purpose of all these absurd life forms? Even human beings are very absurd. Look at any human. It really is a strange creature.
Next. Geographically, Jesus was limited to a small piece of Earth in the middle east. What of the millions who were simply too far away to ever hear of his message? The Asians and Native Americans. Have they gone to Hell for isolation? They were worshiping several gods.
And now I have one question for people like me who believe in science. Science completely fails to explain a purpose for existence. Are you content knowing that you will simply not know - perhaps until death? Surely there is a purpose. I would find the lack of a purpose even more absurd than there being one, wouldn't you?
russia32 on
0
This discussion has been closed.
Posts
What I'm saying is that there is no reason to interpret the whole thing is literal truth if you're a believer. In fact the belief that the whole Bible is literal truth is a pretty modern concept (some say a product of the scientific revolution). Early Christianity, Judaism and Islam did not adhere quite so closely to such a narrow view.
WHAT IS THE PURPOSE BEHIND THAT
Yep. The Biological Meaning of Life (TM) is the Continuation of Genetic Code.
To the OP: You should probably also state which version and interpretation of the Bible you're working with, there's a bloody swarm of the first and an endless legion of the latter.
Why not? I fail to see what you're trying to get at.
I believe some Christian might go as far as stating that Jesus' actions were heard of all over the planet . . . somehow.
If you can't tell, I'm no practising Christian, I just come from a family with some pretty fanatic Christians in it.
The idea of an overall lack of purpose exists at a cosmic level. Its even more absurd to believe that at our level that there is no purpose simply because we are not given one, I think we have some say in the matter, but my knowledge of the free-will debate is nil. But when you think about it, the idea of universe being anything but random and absurd is somewhat terrifying.
Camus can do
But Sartre is smartre
You are correct, there does not have to be a purpose.
If you lack religion, you must find the universe very strange indeed.
I don't think religious people have this problem. For them, a supreme being created the universe. Atoms were his building blocks. Life is a test. Everything makes sense. It all comes together.
However, if you base your beliefs entirely on science as I do, then you must find the universe extremely absurd. From the moment you wake up, once in a while you must wonder, Why? That's the question science cannot answer.
Doesn't that make you uncomfortable?
Then you are content living without knowing the reason?
This is sort of like bitching your hammer can't screw in nails. :P
Science is about explaining the observable and testable. Morality, purpose and such don't really enter into it. (except that its being done by human beings who have both).
There are a large number of religious scientists. Hell, the guy credited for discovering the basics of genetics was a MONK.
This is like asking "Are you content living without knowing how many Smurfs are crammed up your ass?"
There is no -intended- reason beyond what individuals intend for themselves and each other. People have to shove their own Smurfs up their own asses.
Pretty much, yeah.
I think what I'd be way more uncomfortable believing that there is some definite, fixed purpose and that I don't know what it is and am going to be in trouble for deviating from that fucker. I mean, that's something like Chapter 2 in The Big Book of Managers' Things Not To Do.
I also don't see why someone who isn't religious is going to find the universe any more or less absurd than someone who is. You aren't explaining that one too well.
Then why should things exist just to exist?
Hedonism?
You keep asking questions that assume there is a universal reason. If someone doesn't believe there is one, why would they spend time wondering what it is?
Frankly, I'm not sure how there could be a Reason® for life without there being a god or gaia-type consciousness. Since atheists don't believe in anything like that, we're "limited" to finding a reason(s) for life for each of us personally.
Seriously dude
I recommend you read some existentialist philosophy, it deals with exactly this and is great reading. The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus and most of Sartre's stuff would be good starting points for that.
Why does there need to be a reason?
Also, should things exist to not exist? Should things not exist to exist? Your question confuses me.
2.) I recognize that the answers of the universe have been sought out by millions before me, and those people have ultimately failed. It's an ultimately futile quest that only leads to more trouble than its worth. So yes, I'm content with not knowing because I know that there is no way I can know. And there's a chance that there is nothing to know.
Saying that a higher being might have a "lame" reason for allowing you to exist and then going and saying that your arbitrary definition of purpose is better is patently absurd.
The benefit of having a higher deity, mother nature, or the universe or whatever define your fate is that it by nature cannot be absurd by virtue of it being handed down by something infinitely greater than you.
Also, people need to grasp the concept that the Old Testament and New Testament are two very different collections of literature written at very different times for very different purposes. Beyond that, most scholars would agree that the majority of the Old Testament is primarily alegory.
We have no way to prove that there is a reason; therefore pending further tests, we should act as though there is no reason.
However, we still don't know whether or not there is a reason.
Sound like an argument for religion? Nope. Religious folks don't know either. Better to be aware of my ignorance, I'd say.
Kant?
Aquinas?
Anyway, it ultimately it hinges on the fact that we will never know our purpose anyway.
there's no reason to know, so why would i be curious as to the reason? that's like asking, "what color is the number '2'?". the words of your question make sense individually, but it's nonsensical. you, as others noted, are presupposing that there's some sneaking suspicion that there really is some reason out there, handed down from on high. there isn't. stop it.
biblical... what is it, allegoricalism? is just as nonsensical. looking at it as literature is easy to get away with, though.
EDIT:
Lets start with the bolded part, how do you know that? Is there some verse I missed when reading the Bible that says everything must be taken literally. If anything taking everything figuratively is the more reasonable approach, considering that some of the passages in the Bible aren't meant to be taken literally. The Bible is specific in certain aspects but none of them pertain to to the creation of the world, a reading of Genesis 1 brings up some situations that really make no sense in the creation story. In my opinion the whole story is to show the power of God and the method used is largely irrelavent.
Of course it's possible, million of people don't believe in it for a variety of reasons. You can't observe the effects at all and the majority of the evidence for evolution is from million year old fossils. In my opinion the proof isn't right before our eyes which is why parts of the theory seem extremely stretched and certain areas have limited or no explanations, thats why people continue their research and exploration to try and discover answers.
Does it matter why? Why are humans absurd?
Varies from Christian to Christian, but the most common answer is something along the lines of what happened to everyone pre-Jesus as well. Something like nature showing that there is a god and if you believe in him you go to heaven. Supposedly the Christian God is just and merciful so I'm sure there is some plan. The same argument can be brought up with unbron babies, etc.
Assuming your an atheist there is no ultimate purpose for existence, if you don't like that then you need to change your world view.
How do you know what is figurative or not? The bible isn't footnoted to tell you what to take seriously.
Someone obviously hasn't studied evolution very thoroughly. Scientists don't just make shit up for fun.
People choose their own purpose.
In my opinion Christianity and evolution are not compatible unless you change the major tenant of Christianity, which then renders it not really Christianity.
...I can't believe you're actually arguing that Kant's philosophy of God giving us the idea of God is really plausible. If you want to see how it doesn't work, try concieving of infinity in terms other than something very, very big. Just because we can accept the possibility of something does not mean we are able to concieve of it in and of itself, and that's where Kant's philosophy falls apart. As another example, I can say "there are more than three dimensions" without be able to concieve of how these other dimensions would actually work.
I have no idea why I bothered with that since I know this'll turn into flame-baiting and other dickery in about 5 pages, as religion thread tend to take to that, but, uh, carry on.
Edit: I would be interested to know what you think the major tenant of Christianity is though.
tl;dr If there are no value theres obviously no reason for you to be on a forum debating values or other topics that assume them.
The fourth, the fifth
The minor fall, the major lift
The baffled king composing Hallelujah