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[WoW]Warlocks - Patch 3.1: Fun removed, Angst now a base ability

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Posts

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Brainleech wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    It's dumb they didn't at least make an el cheapo 28 slot soul bag with northrend mats.

    I still have the core fel cloth bag from vanilla wow
    I made 4 of the 28 solt ones from tbc for my warlock and three other people
    I am still debating about making the 32 slot one
    Soul bags feel like the sort of thing that should have been addressed back when they got rid of blinding powder.

    forty on
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Dyscord wrote: »
    Haste is a little bit better than crit, but not that much better. In 3.1 crit will probably improve a little bit relative to haste, as well.
    I didn't know it was that close. I've always picked gear on hit > haste >> crit for PvE, non-raiding funtimes (dailies and instances).

    I suppose it depends on what your definition of "close" is. Currently haste is a little bit better than crit, but they're both way below hit and spellpower. Right now crit only affects something like 70% of your damage as aff. Haste affects everything in the sense that it shortens your cast time, but it doesn't effect damage done in the more or less linear way it does for some other casters, because you're still waiting on your dot timers. Haste probably only has an edge because it's a better rating, and in 3.1 crit might pull ahead.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Simcraft still says haste is still slightly better for 3.1.

    The pandemic change is more beneficial for specialty crit effects than actual crit rating as a stat. I'd expect to see more boost due to more filler time, as well as slightly higher corruption damage.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpg
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    With siphon and immo being removed, crit just affects more of your overall damage than it did before. CoA and DS are the only things that won't benefit from it, now.

    Although, that's just as much a bonus for haste really, so it might not make much difference.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
  • RizziRizzi Sydney, Australia.Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    So, what are some good glyphs for demonologists such as myself?
    And I skipped the 51 point talent. Did I do the right thing?

    Rizzi on
  • Kevin CristKevin Crist I make the devil hit his knees and say the 'our father'Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Meta isn't perfect, but it's nice thing to pop during Bloodlust/Heroism. And the fire aura is useful in fights you can get close without getting smeared.

    I'm using Corruption, Shadowbolt and Felguard for Glyphs right now. I'll be switching to Meta/Lifetap/Felguard post 3.1.

    Kevin Crist on
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    Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
  • RizziRizzi Sydney, Australia.Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I think this is what I was aiming for at 80. Is it worth it to put the point in Meta over Devastation?

    Rizzi on
  • Kevin CristKevin Crist I make the devil hit his knees and say the 'our father'Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I'd suggest something like this. Empathy isn't that great and it's going away in 3.1. The damage bonus tied to Brutality great for the Felguard.

    This is what I have planned for 3.1. I just wish they move the +hit talent back to Destruction.

    And I like Meta better then Devastation for now, +20% damage for 30(36 glyphed) on a 3(2 talented) minute CD. You'd get a bunch of Crit from Tactics and the improved Master Conjuror talent in 3.1 gives you +4.27% crit with a Firestone. You could take both MC and Deva though.

    Kevin Crist on
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    Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
  • RizziRizzi Sydney, Australia.Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    So will demo warlocks be using shadow bolt next patch or something?

    Rizzi on
  • Kevin CristKevin Crist I make the devil hit his knees and say the 'our father'Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I do now. Really can't go deep enough into Destruction to make Fire useful.

    Kevin Crist on
    acpRlGW.jpg
    Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I think come next patch with Molten Core in demo they will be using incinerate. At least from what I have seen. Seems to be more like the current destruction play style with shadow dots up for MC while using fire spells for the dd. Also with the soul fire executes, fire will be a big part of your damage.

    Mazzyx on
    u7stthr17eud.png
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    The demo/destro hybrid will be using incinerate still, of course. I'm not sure about the meta level demo, but it might still use shadow bolt.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpg
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    So I out of boredom and curiosity decided I would try the current affliction build. But before the raid I would get my basic casting sequence down on the target dummy in uc. I have dot timers and the like but man there is no way I can pull that off without zoning out almost everything now. Those of you who are affliction at the moment and do well at it, my hats off to you guys. So many dot timers to watch, I was going cross eyed.

    Mazzyx on
    u7stthr17eud.png
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    You just get used to it after a while. It's more complicated than it was before, but after a while you get used to recognizing that you only really need to focus on it at certain points.

    Also, not taking molten core in the demo tree is pure crazyness. A 10% buff to your damage for 2-3 talent points? You're nuts not to take that.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
  • Mr Slippy FistMr Slippy Fist Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Yeah, once you get used to playing Affliction, you get a pretty good feel for when it's time to refresh each DoT without staring at the timer constantly. Plus you've got a few spells that always go together, UA+Immolate(+Siphon Life every other refresh of those 2).

    Mr Slippy Fist on
    Yes, I hate my username and wish I could sign up with a new one. Registration sucks.
  • Kevin CristKevin Crist I make the devil hit his knees and say the 'our father'Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Dyscord wrote: »
    Also, not taking molten core in the demo tree is pure crazyness. A 10% buff to your damage for 2-3 talent points? You're nuts not to take that.

    It's just a case of running out of points. I can move the three points from Nemesis to MC, but I'd like the shorter cooldowns.

    If only they'd move the hit talent back..

    Kevin Crist on
    acpRlGW.jpg
    Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Brainleech wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    It's dumb they didn't at least make an el cheapo 28 slot soul bag with northrend mats.

    I still have the core fel cloth bag from vanilla wow
    I made 4 of the 28 solt ones from tbc for my warlock and three other people
    I am still debating about making the 32 slot one

    Soul shards are becoming Unique (32) post-patch, so yeah, pony up for the 32-slot bag.

    I wonder if this means no more increasingly larger soul bags ever, or if they will just raise the Unique value with each expansion.

    delroland on
    EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
    "Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
  • I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Well I believe it was said that this was just a step in the direction towards where they want to take soul shards, similar to how hunter ammo has much higher stacks now.

    I needed anime to post. on
    liEt3nH.png
  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Well I believe it was said that this was just a step in the direction towards where they want to take soul shards, similar to how hunter ammo has much higher stacks now.

    The fast solution would be to add small buffs inclusive to the soul bag. Just as ammo bags add attack speed, perhaps soul bags could add haste to spells requiring a soul shard.

    delroland on
    EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
    "Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
  • JesuitsJesuits Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    delroland wrote: »
    Well I believe it was said that this was just a step in the direction towards where they want to take soul shards, similar to how hunter ammo has much higher stacks now.

    The fast solution would be to add small buffs inclusive to the soul bag. Just as ammo bags add attack speed, perhaps soul bags could add haste to spells requiring a soul shard.

    The only spell this would make a serious difference with is pyroblast, and maybe minion summonings in arena. Giving it a haste buff to all spells would be better, but then, the devs are planning to radically change soul shards at some point, anyway.

    Jesuits on
    tf2_sig.png
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Stats on the bag at this point would be kinda silly anyway, because then you're just balanced around having a soul shard bag.

    Soul shard bags shouldn't be any more necessary than they are already, especially if Blizzard is looking at some way of revising soul shards.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpg
  • X Equals LoserX Equals Loser Wilford Brimley Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    delroland wrote: »
    Brainleech wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    It's dumb they didn't at least make an el cheapo 28 slot soul bag with northrend mats.

    I still have the core fel cloth bag from vanilla wow
    I made 4 of the 28 solt ones from tbc for my warlock and three other people
    I am still debating about making the 32 slot one

    Soul shards are becoming Unique (32) post-patch, so yeah, pony up for the 32-slot bag.

    I wonder if this means no more increasingly larger soul bags ever, or if they will just raise the Unique value with each expansion.

    Unless this new mechanic they keep toying with us about involves using twice as many shards per fight, I don't see them stacking any higher.

    X Equals Loser on
    xequalsloser.gif
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    delroland wrote: »
    Brainleech wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    It's dumb they didn't at least make an el cheapo 28 slot soul bag with northrend mats.

    I still have the core fel cloth bag from vanilla wow
    I made 4 of the 28 solt ones from tbc for my warlock and three other people
    I am still debating about making the 32 slot one

    Soul shards are becoming Unique (32) post-patch, so yeah, pony up for the 32-slot bag.
    Or Blizzard could not be massive dickheads and just make the mats for the 32-slot bag cheap.

    I should not have to use an add-on to auto-delete the shards that overflow my non-32 slot bag.

    forty on
  • X Equals LoserX Equals Loser Wilford Brimley Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I would think the intelligent thing to do would just have that functionality built in as an option. Put a check box in the options menu that only allows arrows and shards to stack as high as the bags allow.

    X Equals Loser on
    xequalsloser.gif
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Well, that would require Blizzard to copy something a fan did for free, which apparently is a very long and slow process for them that couldn't make it into a 5 month patch...

    forty on
  • FryholeFryhole Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Make the shard system fun, redesign totems, it's really the basic things that blizz seems unable to grasp.

    Fryhole on
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I honestly don't know how you'd go about making the shard system fun. The functional difference between a 32 and a 24 or a 28 or whatever slot soul bag is just about zero.

    The only place that it's currently an interesting, dynamic thing in any way is destro pvp, using shadowburn. And not only is hardly anyone destro, they're mostly just farming 60+ shards before they go out and pvp so they can shadowburn at will, which sort of ruins the whole mechanic.

    I think that any use of shards that incentivizes them being farmed in advance is always going to fail. This means that buffs and things like pets, stones and summoning need to be removed. All you're getting people to do with that mechanic is prefarm a bunch before they do anything.

    My personal dream system would be soulshards being used to buff the various short cooldown spells we have: shadowburn, shadowfury, shadowflame, soul fire, maybe even circle teleport or drain soul somehow. Only let them stack to five or something, so that you can't hoard them, and let warlocks use them as short cooldowns for burst/escape situations. Maybe if it consumes a shard, shadowfury could be a four second stun, or shadowflame could double it's range, or shadowburn could have an increased crit chance, whatever.

    The trick with that though, would be coming up with a system that makes them feasible to generate consistently in pvp and pve that's challenging enough to make shard management interesting. I think that a proc chance on DS isn't good enough, because DS is clunky and a proc chance makes actually managing small numbers of shards tough. I don't know what a good solution there is.

    And, to hit the meta build discussion, I think if you want to be deep demo you'll just have to go 56/15 and lose the hit talent. All the stuff high in the demo tree contribute more dps than suppression, once you gear for the hit.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    forty wrote: »
    delroland wrote: »
    Brainleech wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    It's dumb they didn't at least make an el cheapo 28 slot soul bag with northrend mats.

    I still have the core fel cloth bag from vanilla wow
    I made 4 of the 28 solt ones from tbc for my warlock and three other people
    I am still debating about making the 32 slot one

    Soul shards are becoming Unique (32) post-patch, so yeah, pony up for the 32-slot bag.
    Or Blizzard could not be massive dickheads and just make the mats for the 32-slot bag cheap.

    I should not have to use an add-on to auto-delete the shards that overflow my non-32 slot bag.

    /violin?

    900g for endgame equipment is not that big of a deal. I can make that in two days just doing dailies and selling drops. If it's too much for you, well, I guess you will have to learn to live with four less shards. And after the patch, you'll never have more than 4 shards that "need" deletion.

    All the crafting bags cost just as much to make as the soul bag as well, FYI. I don't hear the miners and leatherworkers whining.

    delroland on
    EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
    "Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    delroland wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    delroland wrote: »
    Brainleech wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    It's dumb they didn't at least make an el cheapo 28 slot soul bag with northrend mats.

    I still have the core fel cloth bag from vanilla wow
    I made 4 of the 28 solt ones from tbc for my warlock and three other people
    I am still debating about making the 32 slot one

    Soul shards are becoming Unique (32) post-patch, so yeah, pony up for the 32-slot bag.
    Or Blizzard could not be massive dickheads and just make the mats for the 32-slot bag cheap.

    I should not have to use an add-on to auto-delete the shards that overflow my non-32 slot bag.

    /violin?

    900g for endgame equipment is not that big of a deal. I can make that in two days just doing dailies and selling drops. If it's too much for you, well, I guess you will have to learn to live with four less shards. And after the patch, you'll never have more than 4 shards that "need" deletion.

    All the crafting bags cost just as much to make as the soul bag as well, FYI. I don't hear the miners and leatherworkers whining.

    It's 50g in mats for a 32 slot mining bag. Same with 28 slot leatherworking.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpg
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    delroland wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    delroland wrote: »
    Brainleech wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    It's dumb they didn't at least make an el cheapo 28 slot soul bag with northrend mats.

    I still have the core fel cloth bag from vanilla wow
    I made 4 of the 28 solt ones from tbc for my warlock and three other people
    I am still debating about making the 32 slot one

    Soul shards are becoming Unique (32) post-patch, so yeah, pony up for the 32-slot bag.
    Or Blizzard could not be massive dickheads and just make the mats for the 32-slot bag cheap.

    I should not have to use an add-on to auto-delete the shards that overflow my non-32 slot bag.

    /violin?

    900g for endgame equipment is not that big of a deal. I can make that in two days just doing dailies and selling drops. If it's too much for you, well, I guess you will have to learn to live with four less shards. And after the patch, you'll never have more than 4 shards that "need" deletion.

    All the crafting bags cost just as much to make as the soul bag as well, FYI. I don't hear the miners and leatherworkers whining.
    I wasn't aware that mining and leatherworking were classes, but your apples and oranges taste delicious.

    forty on
  • Mammy Two-ShoesMammy Two-Shoes Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I hate shards, and I've never looked on them in a "Yeah, that's MY thing, that's me, I'm the shard guy" way. It's always, "Aw fuck, I only have 3 shards left? Goddammit, I gotta farm shards, brb." They do not and will not ever be a class-defining feature. Healthstones are part and parcel of the class, yes, but nobody gives a shit about how we get to them. They just want the stone already, they don't care if it's the result of a soulshard or a voodoo ritual.

    Just get rid of shards. More will be gained (bag space, one less bullshit thing to consider) than lost from their removal. The only thing this is really going to mess with is healthstone generation, everything else can be governed by cooldowns and bag restrictions (no more than one type of item, so on). You'll find a way around the healthstone thing.

    Surely there have been advances in warlocking that have allowed its practitioners to move past the soulshard. What about that lock in Ratchet, maybe he cooked up something to replace the shard? Or Gul'dan, maybe he left some notes behind? Who cares what the lore explanation is, just make something up and move forward already.

    Mammy Two-Shoes on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Just get rid of shards. More will be gained (bag space, one less bullshit thing to consider) than lost from their removal. The only thing this is really going to mess with is healthstone generation, everything else can be governed by cooldowns and bag restrictions (no more than one type of item, so on). You'll find a way around the healthstone thing.
    Hmm, what would they do with Drain Soul if they removed soul shards? I realize it's got the execute thing going at the highest rank. Would they just tack that on to all the lower ranks as well? Is Drain Soul really optimal to use below 20% (or whatever it is) or is it just decent?

    Healthstone generation wouldn't be an issue. They're already unique and have a cooldown, and creating them has a cast time.

    forty on
  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    forty wrote: »
    I wasn't aware that mining and leatherworking were classes, but your apples and oranges taste delicious.

    Fine. You don't hear hunters whining about 32-slot quivers and ammo pouches, and those are the whiniest pack of players in all of WoW.

    So congrats, you've successfully out-bitched hunters. Bravo.

    delroland on
    EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
    "Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
  • RizziRizzi Sydney, Australia.Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    And they get ammo that stacks to 1000 and doesn't require a quiver or an ammo pouch for the 15% ranged haste.

    Rizzi on
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    delroland wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    I wasn't aware that mining and leatherworking were classes, but your apples and oranges taste delicious.

    Fine. You don't hear hunters whining about 32-slot quivers and ammo pouches, and those are the whiniest pack of players in all of WoW.

    So congrats, you've successfully out-bitched hunters. Bravo.

    They don't have 32 slot ammo bags. It's 28 slot, and it costs about 200-250 gold to make, on the high end.

    Anyhow, most of the bitching has been ever since hunters don't even need to use ammo bags anymore.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpg
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    forty wrote: »
    I realize it's got the execute thing going at the highest rank. Would they just tack that on to all the lower ranks as well? Is Drain Soul really optimal to use below 20% (or whatever it is) or is it just decent?

    Below 25%, for an affliction build, it's entirely optimal. When backed up by death's embrace, haunt, shadow embrace, soul siphon, and CoE or an equivalent debuff, it'll tick harder than shadowbolt can crit. In 25 mans I've seen ticks as high as 14k without gimicks like Thaddius. Not so great for any other build, since they won't have all those talents behind it, they'll only get the built in damage boost, which won't beat shadow bolt or incinerate.

    Hevach on
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    but ruin is still needed for damage above the threshold?
    Would this be a good affliction PVE build for 80 right now?

    autono-wally, erotibot300 on
    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    This is what I am thinking when 3.1 goes live.

    delroland on
    EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
    "Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I'm a bit puzzled why you are both avoiding improved CoA.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpg
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    missed it

    autono-wally, erotibot300 on
    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
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