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Gluten Intolerance and gluten related disease

geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
edited March 2009 in Debate and/or Discourse
So let's re-boot this, with a renewed focus.

Let's talk about gluten, and it's effects on a sizeable portion of the population. I'll let a board certified Gastroentologist kick it off:
Gluten Sensitivity: A Gastroenterologist's Personal Journey Down the Gluten Rabbit Hole by Dr. Scot Lewey
This article appeared in the Winter 2007 edition of Celiac.coms Scott-Free Newsletter.

Celiac.com 01/30/2007 - Gluten intolerance resulting in symptoms and illness similar to celiac disease without meeting diagnostic criteria for celiac disease is a new concept. This concept of non-celiac gluten sensitivity (NCGS) or gluten related disease (GRD) may be a new paradigm that is hard for some people to swallow, especially when I suggest that it affects as much as 10% to 30% of the population.

Gluten ingestion is an avoidable, treatable, and reversible cause of illness in many people. It is contributing to the rising epidemic of autoimmune diseases. Many resist these concepts finding them either unbelievable, unacceptable or both. I believe that their rejection is neither rational nor helpful. It may be reasonable to reject them for cultural or financial reasons though I don’t believe they can legitimately be rejected based on scientific grounds or experience.

Celiac disease is not rare. Celiac disease affects 1 in 100 people in the world. Yet the diagnosis of celiac disease is still frequently missed and/or delayed.

It is a common disease that is often undiagnosed or misdiagnosed. It may even be the most common autoimmune disorder. Though the risk is largely genetic, it is preventable by simply avoiding gluten. Autoimmune diseases associated with celiac disease may also be preventable by avoiding gluten.

When I was in medical school over twenty-five years ago, I was taught that celiac disease was rare. In residency we were shown photos of short, emaciated children with skinny limbs and pot-bellies. We were told that their medical history included symptoms of profuse, watery, floating, foul-smelling diarrhea, and iron deficiency anemia. The picture and story was burned into the hard drive of our brains, not necessarily because anyone believed we would see someone with celiac disease in our practice, but because celiac disease was considered rare and odd enough that it was a favorite board examination question. That image and story remains in the mind of most physicians, preventing them from seeing celiac disease in a much broader light.

When I entered subspecialty training in Gastroenterology, 13 years ago, specific blood tests for celiac disease were available but still new. We were beginning to order the blood test when classic symptoms of celiac disease were seen without an identifiable cause, or if we happened to sample the small intestine during endoscopy and classic Sprue changes were seen in the intestinal biopsy. celiac disease was still considered somewhat rare. We did not routinely biopsy the small intestine to screen for celiac disease, and genetic tests were not yet available.

It wasn’t until 2003 that Fasano’s landmark article reported Celiac disease affected 1 in 133 people in the U.S. Only recently has it been accepted that family members of people with celiac disease, those with digestive symptoms, osteoporosis, anemia, and certain neurological, skin or autoimmune disorders constitute high risk groups for celiac disease. They have an even higher risk of between 2% to 5%, though most physicians are unaware of these statistics. Every week, using the strict diagnostic criteria, I confirm 2-3 new cases of celiac disease. I also see 5-10 established celiac disease patients. However, for every identified celiac disease patient there are 3-10 who have clinical histories consistent with celiac disease, but who fail to meet the diagnostic criteria. Yet they respond to a gluten-free diet. Many have suggestive blood test results, biopsies and or gene patterns but some do not.

More than 90% of people proven to have celiac disease carry one or both of two white blood cell protein patterns or human leukocyte antigen (HLA) patterns HLA DQ2 and/or DQ8. However, so do 35-45% of the general U.S. population, especially those of Northern European ancestry. Yet celiac disease is present in only 1% of the same population. DQ2 or DQ8 are considered by some experts to be necessary though not sufficient to develop celiac disease. However, celiac disease without those two genes has been reported.
Other gluten related diseases including dermatitis herpetiformis, the neurological conditions of ataxia and peripheral neuropathy, and microscopic colitis have been described in DQ2 and DQ8 negative individuals. The DQ genetic patterns found in other gluten related diseases and associated with elevated stool antibody tests indicate that many more people are genetically at risk for gluten sensitivity. Furthermore, the response of numerous symptoms to gluten-free diet is not limited to people who are DQ2 or DQ8 positive.

Most celiac experts agree upon and feel comfortable advising people who meet the strict criteria for the diagnosis of celiac disease: they need to follow a life-long gluten-free diet. Controversy and confusion arises when the strict criteria are not met, yet either patient and/or doctor believe that gluten is the cause of their symptoms and illness.

Many alternative practitioners advise wheat-free, yeast-free diets, which are frequently met with favorable response to what is really a form of gluten-free diet. Similarly, the popularity and successes of low carbohydrate diets require adherence to a diet that has been credited with improvement of headaches, fatigue, bloating, musculoskeletal aches, and an increased general sense of well-being that is self-reported by many dieters. I believe this is because of the low gluten content. Gluten avoidance is clearly associated with improvement of many intestinal and extra-intestinal symptoms such as those listed above.

Many also stumble onto this association after initiating a gluten-free diet or wheat-free diet on the advice of friends or family members; dieticians, nutritionists, alternative or complementary practitioners; or after reading an article on the Internet.

Within the medical community, there seems to be an irrational resistance to a more widespread recommendation for gluten avoidance. Physicians who maintain that those who fail to meet strict criteria for diagnosis of celiac disease should not be told they have to follow a gluten-free diet will often acknowledge that many of these patients respond favorably to a gluten-free diet. Some, however, continue to insist that a gluten-free diet trial is unnecessary, unduly burdensome, or not scientifically proven to benefit those who do not have celiac disease. This position is taken despite the absence of evidence that a gluten-free diet is unhealthy or dangerous and much evidence supporting it as a healthy diet.

Those of us who have observed dramatic improvements, both personally and professionally, find such resistance to recommending a gluten-free diet to a broader group of people difficult to understand. Considering the potential dangers and limited benefits of the medications that we, as doctors, prescribe to patients for various symptoms, it really seems absurd to reject dietary treatments. Yet, it does not seem to cross most doctors’ minds to suggest something as safe and healthy as a gluten-free diet, let alone to, at least, test for celiac disease.

My personal journey into gluten related illness began when my physician wife was diagnosed with celiac disease. I had mentioned to her numerous times over several years that I thought she should be tested for celiac disease. After her second pregnancy she became progressively more ill experiencing, for the first time in her life, diarrhea, fatigue, and chronic neuropathy. An upper endoscopy revealed classic endoscopic findings. Celiac disease blood tests were elevated, and genetic testing confirmed she was DQ2 positive. This forever changed our lives and my practice. But the story doesn’t end there.

Having diagnosed myself with irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) and lactose intolerance in medical school, I had not considered gluten as a possible cause of my symptoms until my wife turned the table on me and said I should also be tested for celiac disease. My blood tests were not elevated but I was confirmed to also be DQ2 positive.

Having observed a good response to gluten-free diet in a few of my patients who had elevated stool gliadin antibody levels, I looked critically at the research behind this testing and spoke with Dr. Ken Fine before paying to have my entire family tested through Enterolab. Both my gliadin and tTG antibodies were elevated and I responded well to a gluten-free diet. I began recommending stool antibody and DQ genetic screening to patients who did not meet the strict criteria for celiac disease but appeared to have symptoms suggestive of gluten sensitivity. Contrary to some critics’ claims about the stool antibody tests, there are many people who do not have elevated levels. Almost everyone I have seen with elevated levels has noted improvement with gluten-free diet, including myself.

Not only did my “IBS” symptoms resolve and lactose tolerance dramatically improve, but my eyes were further opened to the spectrum of gluten related illness or symptoms. I was already aggressively looking for celiac disease in my patients but I began considering non-celiac gluten sensitivity (NCGS) or gluten related diseases (GRD) in all my patients. What I have found is that gluten is an extremely common but frequently missed cause of intestinal and non-intestinal symptoms. Dramatic improvements in symptoms and health can be observed in patients who try a gluten-free diet.

Since only a fraction of DQ2 or DQ8 positive individuals have or will eventually get celiac disease, does that mean gluten is safe to eat if you have those gene patterns? Even if you do not get celiac disease, does continuing to eat gluten put you at risk for other autoimmune diseases, especially ones linked to the high risk gene patterns? Why do some people with these patterns get celiac disease but most do not? Do some who do not have celiac disease experience symptoms from gluten that would improve with gluten-free diet? These questions need to be answered so that people can decide whether they want to risk that gluten is causing them to be ill, or is increasing their risk of celiac disease or other autoimmune diseases.

Added to my gluten-free diet, a daily diet of scientific articles on celiac and gluten related disease has revealed that there are many clues in the literature and research indicating the existence of non-celiac gluten sensitivity or a need to broaden our definition of celiac disease. Dr. Hadjivassiliou has called for a new paradigm. He advocates that we start thinking of gluten sensitivity not as an intestinal disease but a spectrum of multiple organ, gluten-related diseases. Mary Schluckebier, director of CSA, asks that physicians interested in this area work on forming and agreeing on new definitions for gluten related illness while pushing for more research and cooperation between medical researchers, food and agricultural scientists, dieticians, and food manufacturers.

Only those who look for NCGS and advise a gluten-free diet to those not meeting the strict criteria for celiac disease, are going to see the larger group of people who have a favorable response to a broader application of the gluten-free diet without further research. Those of us who are personally affected by gluten sensitivity or professionally involved in treating individuals with adverse reactions to gluten (or both) should support the research into the broader problem of gluten related illness. I believe that NCGS is real and will be validated in studies. Are you open to this concept and are you willing support more research in this area?

Dr. Scot Lewey is a physician who is specialty trained and board certified in the field of gastroenterology (diseases of the digestive system) who practices his specialty in Colorado. He is the physician advisor to the local celiac Sprue support group and is a published author and researcher who is developing a web based educational program for people suffering from food intolerances, www.thefooddoc.com

geckahn on
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Posts

  • geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    As to how I feel now - I have more energy then I've ever had in my life, my mood is significantly happier, and my sinus infection went away a bit early (we'll see how that goes next winter though).

    geckahn on
  • brandotheninjamasterbrandotheninjamaster Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    This is intriguing.

    brandotheninjamaster on
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Can't you live without a duodenum?

    emnmnme on
  • DynagripDynagrip Break me a million hearts HoustonRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    Water is used in various industrial applications and is therefore highly dangerous.

    Dynagrip on
  • B:LB:L I've done worse. Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Maybe you just need some parasitic worms, geckahn.

    B:L on
    10mvrci.png click for Anime chat
  • brandotheninjamasterbrandotheninjamaster Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    what would a diet consist of though? Just about every food I know contain one or more of the aforementioned proteins.

    brandotheninjamaster on
  • chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    So my morning Corn Pops in milk are going to kill me?

    But seriously, this is a good chunk of what I, and probably most other people, eat. What's the alternative, rice all day, every day?

    chamberlain on
  • brandotheninjamasterbrandotheninjamaster Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    or meat. delicious delicious meat.

    brandotheninjamaster on
  • geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Rice, potatoes, fruits, veggies, meats, nuts, beans - etc.

    You can get flour and (brown rice) pasta that are very good substitutes.

    I don't expect . . . any of you, to actually switch over. But the more you know.

    geckahn on
  • geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Dynagrip wrote: »
    Water is used in various industrial applications and is therefore highly dangerous.

    please dont be a fucking troll.

    geckahn on
  • YarYar Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I've always wanted to do a thread about health food misconceptions, specifically about whether you should eat this or that, and sho how you're wrong every time. But then some got wrote a book about my idea and got on Oprah. Some things thatwe need some dietary re-education on:

    sugar
    carbs
    salt
    fat
    calories
    proteins (see above)

    and so on.

    Some examples of this or that situations I find fascinating:

    A can of soup has more salt than a a family-sized bag of potato chips.

    Arby's turkey and swiss on wheat sandwich has way more calories than a beef'n'cheddar.

    We got my kid hooked on Multi-bran Chex because we didn't wat him eating those sugary kids' cererals... until we found out that Multi-bran Chex has more sugar than many of the sugartastic kids' cereals. Which is doubly frustrating because even the author of the this or that book says to swap out sugary kids' cerals for a multigrain cereal.
    geckahn wrote: »
    Dynagrip wrote: »
    Water is used in various industrial applications and is therefore highly dangerous.

    please dont be a fucking troll.
    Agreed but you do need to qualify your statements about what is used to make glue. Water is used to make glue, too.

    Yar on
  • chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    geckahn wrote: »
    Dynagrip wrote: »
    Water is used in various industrial applications and is therefore highly dangerous.

    please dont be a fucking troll.

    I think his point is that at some point or another we have been told almost everything is bad for us. The wolf call of 'this food is BAD' has been yelled so many times that even when it is right, no one listens.

    chamberlain on
  • DynagripDynagrip Break me a million hearts HoustonRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    geckahn wrote: »
    Dynagrip wrote: »
    Water is used in various industrial applications and is therefore highly dangerous.

    please dont be a fucking troll.

    And the whole autism link with gluten and casein is far from conclusive.

    And do these proteins cause issues with normal people or only those with defective intestines?

    Dynagrip on
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Your sentence about cancer is extremely misleading and poorly defined.

    Burtletoy on
  • geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    geckahn wrote: »
    Dynagrip wrote: »
    Water is used in various industrial applications and is therefore highly dangerous.

    please dont be a fucking troll.

    I think his point is that at some point or another we have been told almost everything is bad for us. The wolf call of 'this food is BAD' has been yelled so many times that even when it is right, no one listens.

    These things are 100% not carcinogens, which I suppose is what you are referring to. They harm your ability to digest food properly, that is all.

    geckahn on
  • brandotheninjamasterbrandotheninjamaster Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I always thought soy was good for you...but does it really contain that much estrogen? If it did then you would think someone would be vocal about it and say "hey don't eat that."

    I think that for the most part it all comes down to moderation. Too much of anything is bad.

    brandotheninjamaster on
  • geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Let me attach a disclaimer - these issues are relatively un-researched and can not be proven currently with total certainty, but casual links do exist between the associated diseases and gluten/casein.

    and I am aware that my two sentence description of cancer was simplistic.

    geckahn on
  • geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I always thought soy was good for you...but does it really contain that much estrogen? If it did then you would think someone would be vocal about it and say "hey don't eat that."

    I think that for the most part it all comes down to moderation. Too much of anything is bad.

    haha - yeah. why do you think soy is healthy? name a reason.

    and read up on it - http://www.mothering.com/articles/growing_child/food/soy_story.html

    geckahn on
  • DynagripDynagrip Break me a million hearts HoustonRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    geckahn wrote: »
    I always thought soy was good for you...but does it really contain that much estrogen? If it did then you would think someone would be vocal about it and say "hey don't eat that."

    I think that for the most part it all comes down to moderation. Too much of anything is bad.

    haha - yeah. why do you think soy is healthy? name a reason.

    and read up on it - http://www.mothering.com/articles/growing_child/food/soy_story.html

    on some sort of homeopathic website?

    Dynagrip on
  • B:LB:L I've done worse. Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    People say worms are bad too, but there are studies done where those infected with pigworm were less likely to contract Crohn's Disease, and they also showed significant improvement with other gastrointestinal disorders.

    So geckahn maybe you should look into those parasitic worm studies.

    B:L on
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  • geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    B:L wrote: »
    People say worms are bad too, but there are studies done where those infected with pigworm were less likely to contract Crohn's Disease, and they also showed significant improvement with other gastrointestinal disorders.

    So geckahn maybe you should look into those parasitic worm studies.

    uh, I dont have GI disorders anymore. So I think I'll pass.

    geckahn on
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    geckahn wrote: »
    I always thought soy was good for you...but does it really contain that much estrogen? If it did then you would think someone would be vocal about it and say "hey don't eat that."

    I think that for the most part it all comes down to moderation. Too much of anything is bad.

    haha - yeah. why do you think soy is healthy? name a reason.

    and read up on it - http://www.mothering.com/articles/growing_child/food/soy_story.html

    I think it is healthy because it contains a relatively large percentage of the necessary animo acids and has a high protein content. Plus it is a legume.

    Burtletoy on
  • ZimmydoomZimmydoom Accept no substitutes Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Hey, I heard that they use fat to make soap.

    Better not eat anything with fat in it, it's like drinking a bottle of dishwashing fluid!

    Zimmydoom on
    Better-than-birthday-sig!
    Gim wrote: »
    Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
    Flew away in a balloon
    Had sex with polar bears
    While sitting in a reclining chair
    Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
    Running around and clawing eyelids
    Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
  • geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    As a trip down supplement aisle of your local health food store will demonstrate, soy is also touted as a natural remedy for menopausal symptoms and other problems associated with "hormone imbalance." The idea here is that the weak plant estrogens in soy are similar enough to human estrogen that they are able to plug into the estrogen receptors on human cells. There, they supposedly supply a small dose of estrogen (which helps relieve symptoms caused by low estrogen levels)--and there is research to back this up.

    At the same time, soy estrogens are believed to block stronger estrogens from plugging into the receptors, thereby reducing the risk of hormone-driven cancers. But this is also an area of controversy. It is true that Japanese women, who eat more soy, have lower rates of breast cancer (and hot flashes) than Western women. But it has not been definitively proven that these lower cancer rates are due to soy consumption. In fact, there is some concern that over-consumption of soy products could be dangerous for women with or at risk of estrogen-sensitive cancers. (Unfortunately, we never seem to be able to do anything in moderation!)

    And to muddy the waters just a bit more, soy isoflavones can interfere with thyroid function in susceptible individuals and the naturally-ocurring phytates in soy can inhibit the absorption of calcium, magnesium and other minerals.

    http://blog.nutritiondata.com/ndblog/2008/03/soy-superfood-o.html

    geckahn on
  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    matt has a problem on
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  • geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    And now I really regret making this thread.


    So if you'd like to try out an elimination diet and see how your body responds, I think that would be a good idea.


    That's really the only point.

    geckahn on
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    So your quote is saying, no one really knows if soy is as harmful as you told us it was.

    Was this your intent?

    Burtletoy on
  • geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    So your quote is saying, no one really knows if soy is as harmful as you told us it was.

    Was this your intent?

    yes.

    geckahn on
  • YarYar Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I tried to steer this in the direction of actual health science.

    Yar on
  • geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    So your quote is saying, no one really knows if soy is as harmful as you told us it was.

    Was this your intent?

    actually, go read that last sentence in the quote. then connect what I was saying about digestion to that.

    geckahn on
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Human beings are just too damn fragile.

    emnmnme on
  • Sir CarcassSir Carcass I have been shown the end of my world Round Rock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    More fun food facts!

    Sir Carcass on
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Casein is bad?

    I've been using Muscle Milk for months. My fat content has gone down, my muscle development has gone up by about 30% over the previous 4 months that I did not use it, my blood pressure has gone down significantly (From 140/90 to 120/65 on avg), my cholesterol is down, and my overall fitness level is much better than it was previously.

    Casein hasn't been the source of this improvement, but it's really, really helped in getting me there.

    jungleroomx on
  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Human beings are just too damn fragile.
    We've just stopped eating real food and started eating food replacement substances, and our bodies weren't designed for that.

    matt has a problem on
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  • SageinaRageSageinaRage Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I was under the impression that most of the bad traits of soy come about when you put a soy bean through an extrusion process, or whatever it is they do to make soy milk.

    SageinaRage on
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  • urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    So... Soy milk is bad for me, in a sense? Well damn it, I'm lactose intolerant! I'm running out of options!

    urahonky on
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Human beings are just too damn fragile.
    We've just stopped eating real food and started eating food replacement substances, and our bodies weren't designed for that.

    We switched because the real foods were killing us, too. We need our super crops and mightier livestock or else they'd be full of diseases.

    emnmnme on
  • SageinaRageSageinaRage Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    urahonky wrote: »
    So... Soy milk is bad for me, in a sense? Well damn it, I'm lactose intolerant! I'm running out of options!

    Only if you eat a ton of soy a day....or if you're an infant.

    SageinaRage on
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  • urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    urahonky wrote: »
    So... Soy milk is bad for me, in a sense? Well damn it, I'm lactose intolerant! I'm running out of options!

    Only if you eat a ton of soy a day....or if you're an infant.

    Ah so a cup a day won't kill me? Sweet.

    urahonky on
  • SageinaRageSageinaRage Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    urahonky wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    So... Soy milk is bad for me, in a sense? Well damn it, I'm lactose intolerant! I'm running out of options!

    Only if you eat a ton of soy a day....or if you're an infant.

    Ah so a cup a day won't kill me? Sweet.

    You might grow some breasts, but then hey - breasts!

    SageinaRage on
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