HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited November 2006
I just wanted to point out the time Kami and I got into this never-ending discussion about Twin Snakes. I was (and still am) convinced it was worst than the original. Kami was trying to educate me. I'll admit that he started to bend my will, but I stay steadfast on my opinion!
Am I the only one here that thinks the MGS games have truly terrible controls and camera? Most every non-mgs-exposed person I've given it to has agreed with me.
I just wanted to point out the time Kami and I got into this never-ending discussion about Twin Snakes. I was (and still am) convinced it was worst than the original. Kami was trying to educate me. I'll admit that he started to bend my will, but I stay steadfast on my opinion!
You have one extremely important factor in your favor; No VR missions. Fuck, if TTS had been a souped up version of Integral it would be my favorite game ever, as I love the original VR missions.
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mntorankusuI'm not sure how to use this thing....Registered Userregular
edited November 2006
Man, I can understand nostalgia and I can appreciate the merits of the original Metal Gear Solid, but goddamn, the game is almost unplayable today.
Yes, the original is harder than TTS. However I believe this is almost entirely the result of the lack of decent controls. I had the hardest time playing through the original after playing TTS and MGS2 with their great (at least by comparison) controls.
Hell, even TTS and MGS2 are dated by MGS3's standards. There's no way I can go back to MGS1 again.
Twin Snakes is pretty much the best place to start. No point in playing the ps1 version since the GC has better graphics, better controls (plus moves that weren't featured until MGS2), and wicked awesome cut-scenes. Over the top? Maybe, but it's worth it just to see Deepthroat [spoiler:db83f5ea48]slaughtering the hallway full of troops.[/spoiler:db83f5ea48]
Is spoilering MGS1 or 2 necessary? Or does it need more time? We need a certain amount of years rule for spoilering.
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ZephosClimbin in yo ski lifts, snatchin your people up.MichiganRegistered Userregular
edited November 2006
generally i would say MGS1 and 2 are free for all spoilerwise (almost 3 as well), but there may be some sort of courtesy which you displayed due to the fact we are talking about someone whom has never played them.
Twin Snakes is pretty much the best place to start. No point in playing the ps1 version since the GC has better graphics, better controls (plus moves that weren't featured until MGS2), and wicked awesome cut-scenes. Over the top? Maybe, but it's worth it just to see Deepthroat [spoiler:ffbcd10e67]slaughtering the hallway full of troops.[/spoiler:ffbcd10e67]
Is spoilering MGS1 or 2 necessary? Or does it need more time? We need a certain amount of years rule for spoilering.
People are pretty anal about spoilers, but coming into the MGS thread is going to be a pretty spoilerific place anyways, so I don't really know. You could talk about minor plot points allright, this isn't Twilight Princess. :P
Twin Snakes is pretty much the best place to start. No point in playing the ps1 version since the GC has better graphics, better controls (plus moves that weren't featured until MGS2), and wicked awesome cut-scenes. Over the top? Maybe, but it's worth it just to see Deepthroat [spoiler:28ea216061]slaughtering the hallway full of troops.[/spoiler:28ea216061]
Is spoilering MGS1 or 2 necessary? Or does it need more time? We need a certain amount of years rule for spoilering.
People are pretty anal about spoilers, but coming into the MGS thread is going to be a pretty spoilerific place anyways, so I don't really know. You could talk about minor plot points allright, this isn't Twilight Princess. :P
It's obvious there are people who haven't played these games yet. There is one such person on this very page. Why not use spoiler tags? We want them to enjoy the Metal Gear series as much as possible, after all.
It's not like it's actually any trouble to write a spoiler tag when you're talking about something that could be a spoiler.
I remember reading a while back (can't remember where), about Kojima stating that MGS4:GotP was to be the last installment in the franchise. Is this true? I think he went on to say something about expanding onto different ideas/concepts and pursuing them. Anyway, I've played most of the series (excluding the Metal Gears) and I'm still on MGS3:SE (can't be arsed right now to complete it :P) and while I'm enjoying it, I felt MGS2:SOL was a classic and the pinnacle of the franchise. MGS4:GotP looks to be the best yet in regards with the whole narrative and concept, especially how...
[spoiler:c6ba1525d1]the enemies can also become your cohorts[/spoiler:c6ba1525d1] ...very interesting.
I remember reading a while back (can't remember where), about Kojima stating that MGS4:GotP was to be the last installment in the franchise. Is this true? I think he went on to say something about expanding onto different ideas/concepts and pursuing them. Anyway, I've played most of the series (excluding the Metal Gears) and I'm still on MGS3:SE (can't be arsed right now to complete it :P) and while I'm enjoying it, I felt MGS2:SOL was a classic and the pinnacle of the franchise. MGS4:GotP looks to be the best yet in regards with the whole narrative and concept, especially how...
[spoiler:1ba972be0a]the enemies can also become your cohorts[/spoiler:1ba972be0a] ...very interesting.
He was considering it (like he was after MGS2 and 3) but he's reconsidered his position. I do doubt he'll direct a MGS5 though, Murata (director of ZOE2 and co-director of MGS4) will probably take his place.
Henroid: I'm disappointed in you. Your mind must be strong when you face the enemy!
Oh and I'll just say that I'll play MGS1 any day of the week over Twin Snakes. Might I just mention that Twin Snakes looks terrible next to MGS2 (despite being on a more powerful machine) and sometimes doesn't even look better than the PC port of MGS1.
I remember reading a while back (can't remember where), about Kojima stating that MGS4:GotP was to be the last installment in the franchise. Is this true? I think he went on to say something about expanding onto different ideas/concepts and pursuing them. Anyway, I've played most of the series (excluding the Metal Gears) and I'm still on MGS3:SE (can't be arsed right now to complete it :P) and while I'm enjoying it, I felt MGS2:SOL was a classic and the pinnacle of the franchise. MGS4:GotP looks to be the best yet in regards with the whole narrative and concept, especially how...
[spoiler:c36404af13]the enemies can also become your cohorts[/spoiler:c36404af13] ...very interesting.
He was considering it (like he was after MGS2 and 3) but he's reconsidered his position. I do doubt he'll direct a MGS5 though, Murata (director of ZOE2 and co-director of MGS4) will probably take his place.
Henroid: I'm disappointed in you. Your mind must be strong when you face the enemy!
Oh and I'll just say that I'll play MGS1 any day of the week over Twin Snakes. Might I just mention that Twin Snakes looks fantastic next to MGS1.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited November 2006
Right now, just about the strongest point for me that makes the original better than Twin Snakes is the soundtrack. It felt more epic.
As for Kojima and the "I'm not going to make another MG" stuff... In his latest interview he said something along the lines of "If MGS4 doesn't sell well, I'm done with the company." He then said it was a joke. I think he's either trying to keep us on our toes or he's just not confident.
It would be the former though, because it's fucking Kojima. Confidence is what he's all about.
:shock: This Kojima fellow seems extermely unreliable...I'm quite shocked that he has made so many recalls on his previous statements about this franchise...I also agree with you Unco-ordinated on Twin Snakes with adding exaggerated action scenes and adding certain mechanics to simplify the overall difficulty even more. I mean come on Snake kicking a missile? Would'nt that, like, oh I don't know, KILL him? I understand the franchise is known to be surrealistic, but isn't it usually the enemies that have these unique abilities (i.e. The Boss, The Fury, Fortune etc)? Personally, it makes Snake look out of character in comparison to the original and the sequels....
:shock: This Kojima fellow seems extermely unreliable...I'm quite shocked that he has made so many recalls on his previous statements about this franchise...I also agree with you Unco-ordinated on Twin Snakes with adding exaggerated action scenes and adding certain mechanics to simplify the overall difficulty even more. I mean come on Snake kicking a missile? Would'nt that, like, oh I don't know, KILL him? I understand the franchise is known to be surrealistic, but isn't it usually the enemies that have these unique abilities (i.e. The Boss, The Fury, Fortune etc)? Personally, it makes Snake look out of character in comparison to the original and the sequels....
Well the thing about Kojima is that he has been wanting to direct an original game for a while now, but since he's been stuck with the MGS's he hasn't been able to. I think it's pretty understandable that he'd want a break from the series, no-one wants to work on the same project for their entire life (and remember, Kojima's been working mostly on MG since around about 1995).
But it's nice to have another supporter of the 'Twin Snakes is crap' cause. Though the main reason why I think it's crap isn't because of the cutscenes, but the fact that a lot of them are terrible just puts the icing on the cake (of crap). However I will admit that the Grey Fox cutscenes are pretty awesome, everything else not so much.
Woodroez: Puh-lease. I'd take MGS1's character models over Twin Snakes character models (grampa Otacon!) any day.
:shock: This Kojima fellow seems extermely unreliable...I'm quite shocked that he has made so many recalls on his previous statements about this franchise...I also agree with you Unco-ordinated on Twin Snakes with adding exaggerated action scenes and adding certain mechanics to simplify the overall difficulty even more. I mean come on Snake kicking a missile? Would'nt that, like, oh I don't know, KILL him? I understand the franchise is known to be surrealistic, but isn't it usually the enemies that have these unique abilities (i.e. The Boss, The Fury, Fortune etc)? Personally, it makes Snake look out of character in comparison to the original and the sequels....
Well the thing about Kojima is that he has been wanting to direct an original game for a while now, but since he's been stuck with the MGS's he hasn't been able to. I think it's pretty understandable that he'd want a break from the series, no-one wants to work on the same project for their entire life (and remember, Kojima's been working mostly on MG since around about 1995).
But it's nice to have another supporter of the 'Twin Snakes is crap' cause. Though the main reason why I think it's crap isn't because of the cutscenes, but the fact that a lot of them are terrible just puts the icing on the cake (of crap). However I will admit that the Grey Fox cutscenes are pretty awesome, everything else not so much.
Woodroez: Puh-lease. I'd take MGS1's character models over Twin Snakes character models (grampa Otacon!) any day.
I agree about Twin Snakes, I was very disappointed overall, although I think what ate at me the most was not the cutscenes, but Mei Ling, and Naomi. Case closed. I want their voices back dammit.
And I really regret selling my PS2, Id give large chunks of money to play MGS3 again. I swear, I tear up every time I hear that Star Sailor song.
The fact still remains that Twin Snakes is the perfect place to start for any new MGS potential fan.
MGS1 kind of rapes the eyes nowadays, and i agree that Twin Snakes really could have been an incredible idea, if they pulled it off correctly. I dont think they did mind.
But, MGS1 doesnt really play anything like MGS2 or 3.
As long as they keep in mind that Twin Snakes has over the top cutscenes, more so than any other MGS game in the series, it should set up the story perfectly ready for some Sons Of Liberty goodness, and more importantly, ready to be blown away by the amazing spectacle that is MGS3.
The fact still remains that Twin Snakes is the perfect place to start for any new MGS potential fan.
MGS1 kind of rapes the eyes nowadays, and i agree that Twin Snakes really could have been an incredible idea, if they pulled it off correctly. I dont think they did mind.
But, MGS1 doesnt really play anything like MGS2 or 3.
As long as they keep in mind that Twin Snakes has over the top cutscenes, more so than any other MGS game in the series, it should set up the story perfectly ready for some Sons Of Liberty goodness, and more importantly, ready to be blown away by the amazing spectacle that is MGS3.
Fair enough, I suppose we don't want the thread to dissolve into a Twin Snakes vs MGS1 argument like previous ones have.
Anyway, I can't freaking wait for Portable Ops. They've even made a soundtrack for it.
I agree about Twin Snakes, I was very disappointed overall, although I think what ate at me the most was not the cutscenes, but Mei Ling, and Naomi. Case closed. I want their voices back dammit.
They make more sense now that the same actors are using an American accent, though. The characters were both raised in the US.
They could have just said, "OK, use the same accent you did before," but it's a legitimate mistake that they're fixing.
I agree about Twin Snakes, I was very disappointed overall, although I think what ate at me the most was not the cutscenes, but Mei Ling, and Naomi. Case closed. I want their voices back dammit.
They make more sense now that the same actors are using an American accent, though. The characters were both raised in the US.
They could have just said, "OK, use the same accent you did before," but it's a legitimate mistake that they're fixing.
Naomi was from Zimbabwe (to be specific, Rhodesia) and Mei Ling is from China. Them having American accents makes no sense at all.
I agree about Twin Snakes, I was very disappointed overall, although I think what ate at me the most was not the cutscenes, but Mei Ling, and Naomi. Case closed. I want their voices back dammit.
They make more sense now that the same actors are using an American accent, though. The characters were both raised in the US.
They could have just said, "OK, use the same accent you did before," but it's a legitimate mistake that they're fixing.
Naomi was from Zimbabwe (to be specific, Rhodesia) and Mei Ling is from China. Them having American accents makes no sense at all.
I'm almost positive Mei Ling was born in America to Chinese parents (she went to MIT and all). And I know Naomi was born in Rhodesia, but wasn't she taken by Jaeger and raised there as well?
That was the reason I remember when they justified the actors using different accents.
Why is noone talking about young snake appearing in the new trailer? ><
Well, the trailer is pretty old. We ended up concluding that it was more of Kojima screwing around with speculations. I think it's just another feature of the Octo camouflage, facial manipulation.
No, Zimbabwe was Rhodesia. I mentioned it because that's what they call it in the game and I wanted to avoid confusion. I suppose I should've made myself clearer.
YesNoMu: I looked around a bit before I posted, just to make sure what I was saying was true and I didn't see anything that indicated that Mei Ling was born in the US. I am however sure that a lot of foreigners go to MIT.
Also, I'm not sure how we'd find out how old Naomi was when she was taken by Jaeger, but the fact that the accent she had in MGS1 would be exactly the sort of accent people in Rhodesia would have, is proof enough (well I think so anyway ).
DarkWarrior: Because young Snake is probably just a joke from Kojima. Watch that part again from the very start of it and you'll notice that when he's wearing the mask, you can see white hair sticking out from underneath it.
No, Zimbabwe was Rhodesia. I mentioned it because that's what they call it in the game and I wanted to avoid confusion. I suppose I should've made myself clearer.
well yeah, rhodesia was the name of the country when it was part of the empire
but rhodesia and zimbabwe are the same geographical country
I pose a question to you all that I have failed to answer myself: what do we want from Metal Gear Solid 4?
Obviously as fans of the entire series, we'd hate to see the series end, but I'd love to have some answers. If Kojima leaves us with games that pose more questions than they answer, then he'll always have an incomplete story. There's something to be said for actually knowing what the hell happened.
Then again, if I buy a ps3 just to play MGS4, it would be pretty sweet if there were more metal gear games down the line... It would make it that much easier to part with $600. I just think it would weaken the story of 4 for it to not be the end of the story.
i'd really like it if they revamp the gameplay completely
i didn't mind the first one because that type of gameplay was near revolutionary to me at the time. nowadays though the cqc, new camera angle, and first person weapon view just doesn't cut it and makes me find the gameplay itself to be complete shit
but i buy and play them anyway because the story is amusing as all fuck
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mntorankusuI'm not sure how to use this thing....Registered Userregular
i'd really like it if they revamp the gameplay completely
i didn't mind the first one because that type of gameplay was near revolutionary to me at the time. nowadays though the cqc, new camera angle, and first person weapon view just doesn't cut it and makes me find the gameplay itself to be complete shit
but i buy and play them anyway because the story is amusing as all fuck
It saddens me that so many people feel this way because there are very, very few things I would change about MGS3's gameplay. I love it.
Though I guess a revamp wouldn't hurt as long as the same concepts are there.
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The_SpaniardIt's never lupinesIrvine, CaliforniaRegistered Userregular
edited November 2006
Just a few more days till Portable Ops, is everybody else groping themselves in anticipation?
i'd really like it if they revamp the gameplay completely
i didn't mind the first one because that type of gameplay was near revolutionary to me at the time. nowadays though the cqc, new camera angle, and first person weapon view just doesn't cut it and makes me find the gameplay itself to be complete shit
but i buy and play them anyway because the story is amusing as all fuck
It saddens me that so many people feel this way because there are very, very few things I would change about MGS3's gameplay. I love it.
Though I guess a revamp wouldn't hurt as long as the same concepts are there.
I think if anything I'd just want it to be longer without having too many empty spaces. Most of them are usually completable in 3 hours if you know what you are doing.
Why is noone talking about young snake appearing in the new trailer? ><
Well, the trailer is pretty old. We ended up concluding that it was more of Kojima screwing around with speculations. I think it's just another feature of the Octo camouflage, facial manipulation.
Honestly, I loathed Twin Snakes. I didn't feel that the new gaurd AI and gameplay mechanics meshed with the level and weapon design and whatnot.
I think I got to after the fight with the Ninja before I quit the game out of a mix of frustration and boredom. I also couldn't stand the new voices they put in the game. The old ones had more character.
They are really different games, Twin Snakes and the original. The original apealed, and still does apeal far more to me. In fact, after my failed Twin Snakes play through I played through the original to redeem the game in my eyes.
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That and much much more my friend.
You have one extremely important factor in your favor; No VR missions. Fuck, if TTS had been a souped up version of Integral it would be my favorite game ever, as I love the original VR missions.
Yes, the original is harder than TTS. However I believe this is almost entirely the result of the lack of decent controls. I had the hardest time playing through the original after playing TTS and MGS2 with their great (at least by comparison) controls.
Hell, even TTS and MGS2 are dated by MGS3's standards. There's no way I can go back to MGS1 again.
Is spoilering MGS1 or 2 necessary? Or does it need more time? We need a certain amount of years rule for spoilering.
People are pretty anal about spoilers, but coming into the MGS thread is going to be a pretty spoilerific place anyways, so I don't really know. You could talk about minor plot points allright, this isn't Twilight Princess. :P
It's not like it's actually any trouble to write a spoiler tag when you're talking about something that could be a spoiler.
I remember reading a while back (can't remember where), about Kojima stating that MGS4:GotP was to be the last installment in the franchise. Is this true? I think he went on to say something about expanding onto different ideas/concepts and pursuing them. Anyway, I've played most of the series (excluding the Metal Gears) and I'm still on MGS3:SE (can't be arsed right now to complete it :P) and while I'm enjoying it, I felt MGS2:SOL was a classic and the pinnacle of the franchise. MGS4:GotP looks to be the best yet in regards with the whole narrative and concept, especially how...
[spoiler:c6ba1525d1]the enemies can also become your cohorts[/spoiler:c6ba1525d1] ...very interesting.
Henroid: I'm disappointed in you.
Oh and I'll just say that I'll play MGS1 any day of the week over Twin Snakes. Might I just mention that Twin Snakes looks terrible next to MGS2 (despite being on a more powerful machine) and sometimes doesn't even look better than the PC port of MGS1.
As for Kojima and the "I'm not going to make another MG" stuff... In his latest interview he said something along the lines of "If MGS4 doesn't sell well, I'm done with the company." He then said it was a joke. I think he's either trying to keep us on our toes or he's just not confident.
It would be the former though, because it's fucking Kojima. Confidence is what he's all about.
But it's nice to have another supporter of the 'Twin Snakes is crap' cause.
Woodroez: Puh-lease. I'd take MGS1's character models over Twin Snakes character models (grampa Otacon!) any day.
I agree about Twin Snakes, I was very disappointed overall, although I think what ate at me the most was not the cutscenes, but Mei Ling, and Naomi. Case closed. I want their voices back dammit.
And I really regret selling my PS2, Id give large chunks of money to play MGS3 again. I swear, I tear up every time I hear that Star Sailor song.
MGS1 kind of rapes the eyes nowadays, and i agree that Twin Snakes really could have been an incredible idea, if they pulled it off correctly. I dont think they did mind.
But, MGS1 doesnt really play anything like MGS2 or 3.
As long as they keep in mind that Twin Snakes has over the top cutscenes, more so than any other MGS game in the series, it should set up the story perfectly ready for some Sons Of Liberty goodness, and more importantly, ready to be blown away by the amazing spectacle that is MGS3.
Anyway, I can't freaking wait for Portable Ops. They've even made a soundtrack for it.
They could have just said, "OK, use the same accent you did before," but it's a legitimate mistake that they're fixing.
That was the reason I remember when they justified the actors using different accents.
YesNoMu: I looked around a bit before I posted, just to make sure what I was saying was true and I didn't see anything that indicated that Mei Ling was born in the US. I am however sure that a lot of foreigners go to MIT.
Also, I'm not sure how we'd find out how old Naomi was when she was taken by Jaeger, but the fact that the accent she had in MGS1 would be exactly the sort of accent people in Rhodesia would have, is proof enough (well I think so anyway
DarkWarrior: Because young Snake is probably just a joke from Kojima. Watch that part again from the very start of it and you'll notice that when he's wearing the mask, you can see white hair sticking out from underneath it.
but rhodesia and zimbabwe are the same geographical country
Obviously as fans of the entire series, we'd hate to see the series end, but I'd love to have some answers. If Kojima leaves us with games that pose more questions than they answer, then he'll always have an incomplete story. There's something to be said for actually knowing what the hell happened.
Then again, if I buy a ps3 just to play MGS4, it would be pretty sweet if there were more metal gear games down the line... It would make it that much easier to part with $600. I just think it would weaken the story of 4 for it to not be the end of the story.
PS: well done again Kami
i didn't mind the first one because that type of gameplay was near revolutionary to me at the time. nowadays though the cqc, new camera angle, and first person weapon view just doesn't cut it and makes me find the gameplay itself to be complete shit
but i buy and play them anyway because the story is amusing as all fuck
Though I guess a revamp wouldn't hurt as long as the same concepts are there.
I think if anything I'd just want it to be longer without having too many empty spaces. Most of them are usually completable in 3 hours if you know what you are doing.
Sadly I can't justify owning a PSP for Portable Ops, because honestly it's the only game I would buy for that machine.
Old? It was shown at TGS06 wasn't it?
Eh, it's really opinion.
Honestly, I loathed Twin Snakes. I didn't feel that the new gaurd AI and gameplay mechanics meshed with the level and weapon design and whatnot.
I think I got to after the fight with the Ninja before I quit the game out of a mix of frustration and boredom. I also couldn't stand the new voices they put in the game. The old ones had more character.
They are really different games, Twin Snakes and the original. The original apealed, and still does apeal far more to me. In fact, after my failed Twin Snakes play through I played through the original to redeem the game in my eyes.
I have mine fully paid off, and I work the morning it comes out.
The good news is, I work at the Gamestop I preordered at.
I get the game around 3 pm, get off at 4, and have the next two days off.
You fool! Do you not see what you have done? Run! Run while you still can!