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Cops Gone Wild - Killing Elderly Black Cancer Survivors Edition
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What are the other factors?
(ed: beaten by iTunes but I don't care)
No, I didn't accuse anyone here of thinking that a bad upbringing excuses murder, but it seems to me that some people here believe environmental factors are at least a partial excuse for the committing of crimes.
Used as a contributing factor as to why someone might be so fucked in the head as to think "fuck, I'd better shoot these cops, it's my only hope"? Yes.
I wouldn't know since I'm not privy to the personal lives of murderers.
My bad, I was considering that notion an excuse.
You're confusing excuses for explanations. No choice is made in a vacuum. The things that happened in our lives informs what paths we take. Trying to understand why someone would do horrible things is pretty important to figuring out what could have prevented this from happening.
Glad you asked, I live in Norway, which actually is a haven of safety. There's plenty of assholes like everywhere else, but they don't kill you. I've never seen a loaded gun in real life except a Mauser rifle used for hunting moose, and Norway itself is on top or near the top of pretty much every beneficial statistic there is in the entire world, like the Human Development Index which we have been in first place on for years (tied with Iceland now).
Coincidence though, there was a triple murder here in my city this week. It is pretty much completely unheard of here (has never happened before) and it shocked the entire city beyond belief. It was committed by a mentally ill person caught roaming the streets with blood on him, and who admitted the murder when he was brought to the hospital. Everyone is blaming our mental hospitals for allowing this to happen since he had been in their care a few times before, and there is public outrage that something like this could happen here.
Well, I gave you two perfectly good opportunities, and twice you basically ignored it to make an inane comment. I feel justified in calling you an idiot.
Basically, you're responding like this because you're wrong. There are no other factors in what shapes human behavior. There are the inherent tendencies built into a person's genetics, and there is the environment in which they are raised. Note that I'm not saying that free will does not exist - but that free will is directed towards the goals and priorities they have gleaned from their environment and which are inherent in themselves.
Also note that I'm not apologizing for what anyone's done, or excusing it. But, it's not always reasonable to say 'He should have known better'. How could he, if he never learned it? If, in the environment you are raised, the police are a threat instead of a help, doesn't it make sense to not trust them? If in your experience they are unreliable, doesn't it make sense to not rely on them?
People like me who are saying these things are not looking to get him off the hook, or to get him released for his crimes. Murder is still murder, and should be punished. But, looking at these kind of influencing factors is a great help in PREVENTING murder. And, it is much more useful to do than to just say 'well, he's a murderer, and so I have nothing in common with him, and no desire to help or understand him', which is what you've decided to do.
If by environment you mean every single factor aside from genetics then, yes, I'd agree that both are the sole influence on personality. But, I really don't agree with the assumption if environment is how/where an individual was raised. There are too many external influences that can affect personality throughout adulthood and into old age.
edit:: Glad to see a response that's not just snark, though. And if you can think of anything that doesn't fit into those two categories, I'd be glad to hear it.
Hmm. That could have been anyone on this forum. How do we narrow it down?
Are you sure it wasn't you? You'd better punish yourself just in case.
Clever. It does go back to my original point though. Look how bad community relations have gotten in Oakland where this scum is being given Robin Hood treatment. The onus for maintaining good community relationships is on the police, not on the citizens. A good way to go about doing that is not shooting them in the back.
On a somewhat related note: http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/latestnews/stories/wfaa090325_mo_detained.6f8a23c1.html
Even in the veritable Nirvana that is Norway there exists assholes and people who just go nuts and kill people. Did that dude go nuts because of society? Or was he born with some kind of mental problem? BEing crazy isn't just on/off, there are many degree's of mental states. Most people are normal and will pretty much just follow along with their society, some people won't.
Some people will just be assholes.
Limed the truthful part.
Fixed that for you. Remember, this is the state where the penalty for driving while black is the police confiscated everything you own.
Is it every Muslims' sworn duty to take direct legal action against other Muslims who behave in an extremist manner? Does society confer upon those Muslims special privelieges for that exact purpose?
Because it is every police officer's sworn duty to take direct legal action against any person, cop or not, who behaves in an illegal manner. Society does confer upon the police special privelieges for the exact purpose of them stopping illegal activity. And not doing so makes them a bad cop, the same as failing to perform any other job would make another person bad at their profession.
Police officers who fail to perform the duty of a police officer are bad police officers. Any police officer with knowledge of an illegal act who does nothing about it is a bad police officer - willfully ignoring a crimie is pretty high up in terms of what constitutes a blatant failure of an oath to "uphold the law."
Also, what happens to those whistle-blower cops? If they're suffering reprisals for their actions, that's not exactly a good reflection on those other "good" cops either.
The guy's name escapes me, but I can think of one specific example of an NYPD narcotics officer who refused to accept bribes or take his cut of seized money or whatever in the 70's. He wound up being set up by fellow officers as a result of blowing the whistle on the corruption within the system.
Serpico. Great movie too. It was mentioned already in this thread by Than.
You kind of missed the gist of my post, particularly the part right past where you bolded: "but they don't kill you."
You can't escape assholes, but the fact that our assholes are much harder to find and are mild-mannered sheep compared to yours should give you a clue as to what I am talking about.
I invite you to read a little about life in a high security prison in Norway. Yes, that's some of our worst citizens. Here's some pictures to go with it, in case you're wondering how our prisons look.
Although, I guess they're forced to use Vista on their computers, which arguably puts it up there with anal rape.
Peace breeds peace you see, Norwegians themselves are very peaceful people, which is not something you can say about the people immigrating here.
In short, we have about 3-4k prisoners out of 4.8 million people, of which one-quarter are foreigners, even though foreigners make up 5 percent of our population.
So yes, society itself plays a phenomenally big part in crime, people are not inherently bad, period.
Fun fact, the movie Sicko by Michael Moore cut out the parts that included Norway, because it was deemed too unbelievable:
This is a scene from Michael Moore's movie Sicko about Health Care that Michael Moore decided to remove from Sicko because no one would believe it. There were many TV News hour hosts that were making fun of Michael Moore, calling his documentaries names, such as "a cartoon" (that one was directed at Sicko directly by some random wannabe doctor), or telling their audiences that Michael Moore is dead wrong because the health care in France, Canada and the UK is terrible. Then the other host calls Sicko "a terrible propaganda" saying that Michael Moore is not even any good, blah blah.
Based on those attacks against his person and the movie, Michael Moore decided to remove one of the scenes he had filmed and formerly intended for it to be a part of Sicko. It was the scene about Norway. The country that shines much brighter than Canada or any other country when it comes not only to health care, but also any other care for their citizens. Michael Moore knew they couldn’t handle it, scene about France itself seemed too good to be true, so he decided to remove the scene about Norway from Sicko entirely.
As Michael Moore says, Norway blows France right out of the water. The standard of living in Norway is one of the highest in the world. France and England only give you six months paid maternity leave, Norway gives you a full year. Norway will buy you a new car, if it is difficult for you to use public transportation. Norway will also pay you for a two weeks vacation to the tropics, to help you with your illness. Norway is at number one spot on the United Nations human development list – which means that Norway ranks at #1 for things like literacy, education, health care, and income per capita.
This removed scene about Norway also has a short section about prisons in Norway and it is a must see. They believe that prisoners need different treatment in order to have them changed. The prisoners know that they are in prison, but their living conditions and every day life is nothing short of paradise. The philosophy is that if you treat people properly, they may change their behavior and become good, ordinary citizens. The longest prison sentence in Norway is 21 years. Norway has the lowest murder rate in the world. In 1999, when US asked for extradition of an American prisoner, the Norwegian Supreme Court declared that most US prisons don’t meet the minimum humanitarian standards.
This scene about Norway that was cut from Sicko by Michael Moore because no one would believe it is definitely worth seeing.
Not that it's directly applicable to the thread, but from that article: Sounds like the Norwegian criminals are more dangerous than the foreign criminals.
I could link you to traffic related and other stuff, but I don't feel it is going to help the thread any, in any case; No, they are not more dangerous at all. Oslo is the worst city in the country because it is as international as it is, the immigrants basically bring crime.
Don't get me wrong, I am not as anti-immigration as I seem, I am just stating how things work over here.
My entire point of bringing all this up was merely that Cabezone has this notion that some people are somehow born bad little bastards who will bring naught but despair and hatred to humankind.
Norway is the perfect example why this is not true, because of how peaceful it is here, which I can testify to with all my heart.