Just interested in hearing someone elses opinion on this. Maybe I'm freaking out, maybe not.
I've been dating this girl for about four months or so. Things are going pretty well. So well that she's moved in with me into my apartment. We get along fine.
Well, about three weeks ago we went to see some bands play. We got beer thrown on us, so she says she's gonna go out to the car to clean up. About twenty minutes go by so I go looking for her and find her talking to this guy. No biggie.
Next day I find out that he found her on MySpace and they exchanged phone numbers. Again, not a big deal.
Well, a few days later I saw her mention him on her blog. Basically, "I met a guy named X who has a tattoo like mine". I let my jealousy get the better of me and snooped into her phone and saw where she called him for a short time and sent some texts back and forth. I started interrogating her. Not a nice word, but basically she told me that she hadn't called him but it was after I think she realized that I had gone through her phone.
So, when she checks her phone and sees that I was in it, I asked why she lied to me about talking to him. She said that she got defensive because I was accusing her. I can see that.
Few weeks go by, I can't resist the urge to check her phone a few times. She doesn't text him at all. No calls to or from.
Well, yesterday my jealousy got the best of me. I checked her phone and saw where she briefly messaged him Saturday. What spurred this thread was a brief convo yesterday. Was basically:
Her: "Hey. You better say hey to me Mr. Fancy Pants."
Him: "Hey."
Her: "How you doin babe?"
Him: "Sore. Went to a show last night."
Her: "Aww, you'll be alright baby."
Him: "Blah blah blah. Should have come."
Her: "Should have invited me."
Him: "Didn't think you'd come."
Her: "Well you never know."
Nothing
substantial, but enough to make you perk your ears up, you know what I mean?
Now, I've noticed that whenever she's bored she'll get on her phone and start texting people. If I'm playing a single player video game (like when she messaged him Saturday), or when I was gone for about 25 minutes yesterday and she couldn't use the laptop or TV because we had a house full of her stuff. So, that's the idealistic part of me. Messaged cause she was bored. Doesn't talk to the guy regularly, nothing that stands out as a red flag, you know? The "babe" and "baby" thing is unnerving, but I have friend girls in relationships that say the same thing to me.
Now, the cynic in me says that maybe she's upset. Saturday we stopped by Sonic to get a drink. The girl who brought us our drinks was a girl that was trying to date me while me and my current GF were getting serious. Sonic girl was like, "I told Nay you said hey and she asked why and I said I texted Author and she asked why I texted you and said because I want to" Not word for word, but that sums it up. Well, later that night I got a text message from another girl who I dated a year ago who saw us at the Sonic (she works there now) and was basically asking if I was upset over how things ended (I wasn't. Dunno why she cared to ask). Finally, in the course of moving in Saturday, she found an old love note that a girl had written me a few years ago. She can be kind of jealous, so what if she saw that and got a bug up her butt or something?
The state of our relationship has come up a few times. Whenever we had our "please don't snoop" conversation, she basically said "I don't understand your lack of confidence in our relationship." Pretty straight and to the point. The other day we talked about our relationship briefly and she said that she is taking our relationship seriously. She wouldn't move all of her stuff and her cats into my place if she didn't. We had a talk about marriage and divorce after seeing something on TV, and she said that she doesn't believe in divorce. I asked why, and she said she'll get one, but only in the case of someone cheating. Finally, I know she once told a friend that she doesn't keep many friends for a few reasons. 1> Girls tend to do nothing but whine about their problems, and 2> She doesn't like having too many guy friends cause they always try to get with her. These things build confidence.
What causes a lack of confidence is that I know that during college she got around. Not a ridiculous amount, and not overly slutty, but I know the extent of her experimentation. She once asked about how if things with us went a long way, if I'd be willing to move back to her college town and go to school with her. I joked "are you gonna go buck wild on me?" She laughed, said no, that she's calmed down since then cause she had to pick herself up out of a bad situation (living arrangements, etc). Her stories of this time kinda paint sex as nonchalant. But, again, I have my own stories that I tend to share in a similar nonchalant manner, though sex is often times pretty important to me. Finally, she was involved with someone while me and her started talking. But, again, as with lots in this thread, there is a flip side because I was talking to a girl during the early parts of our relationship. I felt kinda like "the other man", so to speak.
So... No big deal? I'm thinking no big deal. I'll try to fight the urge to check her phone, cause that
is dishonest. But I only do it because I've had a real bad luck streak with women (tend to date for a few months and then they lose interest). And I really really love this girl and if things fall through, I wanna know, so things don't escalate and get overly dramatic.
Just curious to how some of you folks would take on this.
Posts
Yeah, my antenna went up right here.
Aside from that, you're not supposed to snoop, but when you do and you find something, well ... it's hard to chastise you.
As far as the "bad streak of luck" about relationships ending after a few months? That's when the initial "lust" phase wears off, and it's into the next stage. My guess it that you just haven't found someone that you're really clicking with in the "friendship" stage, so you never make it to stage 3, "long-term companion."
Also, four months and she's moved in? Brakes, dude, brakes. In my opinion that's way too soon.
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The babe/baby thing would bother me. If you really don't trust her, you might want to take a good, hard look at why. There's no use working yourself up over it by looking at her phone and emails and stuff.
I'm not saying be oblivious, I'm suggesting that even if she's considering this other guy, either you trust her or you don't. If you don't, and want to snoop on her, then you're just going to make yourself, and her, miserable.
If you're at this point already, there's a problem.
I'd say that the two of you need to sit down and have a talk, because you obviously don't trust her and she's given you reason to go through her calls. You're tempting an explosion by not getting everything on the table. Talk to her, put it all out there and if there's something to be salvaged it's really the only way. Otherwise you'll both just keep sneaking around compounding things greatly.
Nah. I agree. She also agrees. But it helps me on rent, and she was pretty much staying there and finding excuses to stay there before she moved in as well.
And yeah, I suppose I do trust her. Whenever we're doing something together she doesn't bother with her phone at all. She doesn't do any sneaking. Like, I've never caught her trying to go to the bathroom to make a call or anything. I've never "Hey, who you texting" and gotten a "nobody" before. She lied to me once, but that was because she didn't want to tell me who she really was texting in front of the company we had.
These are pretty much the opinions I'm interested in hearing.
Your actions speak otherwise.
Also, I don't care why you check her phone it's still wrong and rationalizing it is bullshit.
It seems weird that neither of you communicated to each other during this part. She should've txted you to say "Hey, I'll be there soon, I'm talking to ____." You should've said, "Hey, is everything ok?" I don't mean this in a "he/she is my property, they need to inform me of their whereabouts at all times," I mean it more as in making sure she's safe. Twenty minutes is a long walk to the car, unless you guys were at a stadium or something.
These two things together make me raise my eyebrows. If she doesn't make new friends often, why did something click between her and this dude?
Just me being devil's advocate here, but is it possible that she erased them from her phone?
The bolded parts seem overtly flirty to me. She's playfully forcing him to talk to her/get him to invite her to things. The whole "babe/baby" thing seems weird, especially if she knows you have a problem with this guy. None of my female friends call me baby, and the girls I know who use those types of words to address their guy friends do it for the flirting and the attention.
This seems to me like she's trying to deflect your suspicion to how you are negatively impacting the relationship.
The whole snooping thing is bad. Bad, bad, bad. I've been there, and I regret doing it. At the same time, it was my ex-girlfriend's continued suspicious behavior that kept on tempting me to do it. I don't know you, your girlfriend, or your relationship, but something seems fishy. It might just be that I was in your situation and my suspicions were correct, but I'd be wary.
Make the decision now: Trust her or don't. If you trust her, stop going through her shit and don't bring it up again.
If you don't think you can do it based on what you've already found, you should probably rethink things, and talk to her openly about all this. You should STILL stop going through her shit, because seriously, this is not something you should really ever do in a relationship you want to stay in.
They have the same tattoo.
Loud punk rock show. Twenty minutes is probably over estimating.
Possible, but I figured she'd erase all of her texts. Also, can't erase calls made, and I haven't seen his number there at all.
Possible, but that's not the way I took it. She didn't say it all whiney/defensively. More like, "Sigh, I don't understand why you would even worry about that."
I pretty much agree with this entire post. Especially with the whole babe/baby thing. I can imagine a female addressing a platonic opposite sex friend if they were longtime friends, but someone that she just met, I think thats a little suspicious.
pleasepaypreacher.net
One thing that is undoubtedly true, though: if you feel compelled to snoop in her phone records, read her email, or anything of that nature, that on its own is a big red flag that your relationship is in trouble, whether your concerns are justified or not.
General advice for the future:
1. When you first start seeing someone, you experience a hormonal surge that tells you "hey I'm banging this chick, this is awesome." It takes about three months for the hormone levels in your body to return back to normal so you can discern whether you actually love someone or if you just love the idea of being with someone. You are not mentally capable of deciding rationally whether it's a good idea to move in with somone during this time frame. Equally to the point, it happens to everyone regardless of gender, so she's not capable of deciding whether it was a good idea to move in with you, either. You should absolutely not make a decision like this again after knowing a girl considerably longer.
2. On that topic, the timeframe you've given us is pretty much exactly the right point in time where the girl would think to herself, "okay, this has been fun, but it's not as fun as it used to be, and oooh, this other guy is cuuuute."
3. In the future, if something a girlfriend does raises a flag for you and makes you uncomfortable, telling yourself over and over again "eh this isn't a big deal" until suddenly you're spying on her or snooping through her text messages, calls and emails isn't a productive way to address the issue. It is absolutely okay to sometimes feel uncomfortable or less than perfect confidence, but the best way to handle this is usually to say to your partner, "can we talk for a minute? It makes me feel uncomfortable that you're ____________ ."
4. Either she's interested in another guy and wants to pursue him, or she's not but you think she is to the point where you'll go through her stuff. Either way, I suspect your relationship has run its course to its logical conclusion. Be polite. Don't hold it against her, and offer to help her move her stuff.
...
(on another random sidenote, it's interesting to me that the phone has some sort of sanctity in other peoples' relationships. My better half and I use each other's phones all the time, to the point where people will frequently call me to find her before they try her phone--and vice versa).
Its like going through someone's diary or reading their mail (but less illegal than reading their mail). Every person has a right to privacy, whether they are in a relationship or not. You're allowed to have secrets, and you shouldn't have to worry that someone is going to go snooping through your phone, email, diary, ect.
Its fine that you and your better half have an agreement about phones, but its pretty obvious that the OP and his girlfriend did not.
I use my boyfriend's cell on occasion but that doesn't mean I obsessively check his call log and read all of his text messages. There's a pretty big difference between the two.
In a relationship there must be some commitment, looks like that in her head that doesn't exist.
1. There's in important distinction between "privacy" and "secrets." Privacy means she waits until I'm out of the house to use her vibrator, and I wait until she's out of the house to watch porn. Secrecy would be if I didn't want her to think I sometimes watch porn, or if she didn't want me to know she owns a vibrator. The distiction is that right now if I happened to find her vibrator or she happened to find my porn stash, we'd both be mildly embarrassed and pretend we hadn't seen anything, thereby respecting the other person's privacy. Whereas secrecy creates doubt--if my girlfriend didn't want me to know she had a vibrator at all, and I suddenly stumbled across it while putting away the clean laundry, I'd have to wonder if maybe the reason she was hiding it was that she wasn't satisfied with our sex life but didn't feel comfortable talking about that. And then I start wondering what else she was hiding and soon everything unravels into a clusterfuck of emotional insecurity and shame.
Privacy is great--I'm not particularly interested in watching my SO change her tampon--but if there's something going on in your life that you need to keep secret from your SO, it's worth exploring why you don't feel comfortable with that person knowing.
2. It's etc, not ect. Et cetera.
Lying breeds a lack of confidence in the other party. Secrecy breeds a lack of confidence in the other party.
I'm not going to condone going through another person's belongings to "check up" on your significant other, but if you feel the need to do that (and to be honest, while I don't condone it, I can see why you did it here), the relationship is in trouble.
Going from "just dating" to living together inside only four months is a pretty fast pace to begin with; I think you both may have overestimated your dedication to this relationship a bit. If nothing else, you both need to sit down and really detail your plans on a long-term basis. If it's just a casual thing, then fuck it, it's not worth worrying about (but then why live together?). If it's more serious, then you both need to really decide what you want out of the relationship and resolve to be 100% truthful with each other, otherwise you can expect the ship to sink pretty quickly.
Given all that, it really seems to me that she's earned the benefit of the doubt. If you can't grant that basic trust to her, it will very likely cause problems in the relationship, and you will very likely drive her away. And if she does leave you for someone else, be it this tattoo guy or some other dude, you'll throw your hands in the air and say "bitches man, they all be lyin' cheaters!" You'd probably treat the next girl the same way, and the pattern would probably repeat. Don't fall into that trap.
Privacy is great and all, but that's "doing it wrong."
You're supposed to watch the porn and then use the vibrator. Together. :winky:
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I think there's a lot of wisdom from our avian friend, here.
The very fact that 1) the two of you jumped into a shared domestic space so quickly and 2) both of you seem unwilling or unable to provide the sort of full-disclosure necessary when inhabiting such a shared space as a couple leads me to believe that you are, indeed, "doing it wrong."
The two of you need to talk. Hard. If you can't agree to be open with each other you're going to end up in a nastier situation really quick.
Anyway, yeah. Privacy = Good. Secrecy = Bad. Gettin yo freak on = Great.
Okay so bad plan on my part trying to respond to this one after five or six shots. But the above seems to be the key 'thingy' here. You know what shes like, and also, I swear you mentioned you did almost the same thing, once upon a time, though i cant find it when i reread. So you know how the game goes.
Some people go from one monogamous relationship to another- when they get attached, they are attached, they don't put out feelers during that time, end if/when that relationship ends, they start from scratch from that point. Other people realize that a long term, permanent relationship is unlikely, so they put out feelers during the relationship so when it ends, they are prepared, and can easily hit up a list of contacts and continue on. A backup plan. Plan B.
Relationship habits. Now honestly, I don't think it means anything, at least, it doesn't mean anything deep. You've had all of four months, which is pretty much nothing, and things are going fast because of circumstances- circumstances which many people can understand. But that isn't really that much time. Not in the big picture. Not enough time to create something so deep and so secure that its worth ditching all other backup plans.
From the post, it looks like that's where you want to be. And that's nice. But really really wanting and actually having are two different things. Look at what you wrote. Its not secure, its not unworried, its unstable dude. Your relationship just isn't there yet. No reason just yet to be alarmed. Solid roots don't grow overnight.
I want to bring up a handy little term right now- the self-fulfilling prophecy. If you, on being afraid and insecure in your relationship, act harshly and unreasonably, then you will cause yourself no end of agony and find yourself in the exact circumstance you are hoping to avoid. It is okay to feel jealous, and to communicate those feelings, but no one likes a jealous douche. You start going down that road, and suddenly these nothing, little meaningless options become far more entertaining.
That's why they are there after all. They are there for when you turn out to be a product of false advertising, and the big reveal is you're actually not all that good a guy. Or not good enough, or not compatible enough or whatever it is that you may not be enough of. Because so far, I would heavily wager, that in this girls life, it is quite likely that you are not, and the odds of you beating the odds are slim by definition. To be clear, despite the odds,
She's giving you an honest chance.
So rise up. This is the part of the relationship where you do and are all the things you claim you can be. You want to be in love? So buck the fuck up and accept who she is. That is Step One. If you can't get past step one, then really, how on earth do you think you can go the distance? So what if she is still comparison shopping. Be the better bargain. Show what you can do when things get a little challenging. And by show, I don't mean rampage, I mean don't lose your shit.
Dishearting txts on a cell phone? Ouch. That's a hit to the soft bits. But to be clear, that is you hitting your own soft bits. Why? Because you wanted to see something different- absolute devotion- and you didn't get it. Romance, meet realism. We idealize people until we find out something different, name of the game. So what. It doesn't change anything. She is exactly who she is, and you like that, so don't be bitching about the little details that allowed that personality to exist. At the end of the day, she chose you and keeps choosing you. All you need now is proof over time.
So don't let it eat you. It could be anything from feelers to just plain old wanting to feel attractive. Your relationship as it is is pretty hard to define, her motivations are going to be even harder. Just focus on being yourself and figuring out if the two lifestyles get along well together. Don't be afraid to bail if they don't. If you're the right guy doing the right thing, then you will be the right guy in the right situation. If you're not, you're not- that's no-ones fault.
You just go about being the best you you can, everything else will take care of itself.
When you asked her if she had communicated with this guy, knowing full well she had, you set a trap for her. That is a no-no. You certainly might want to have a conversation with her about it, however beginning that conversation by deliberately trapping her into lying to you was not the way to do it. There are many reasons she might lie to you about it, some more reasonable than others. Whatever, lying is wrong, it happens. However, when trying to have a meaningful conversation with someone you love and trust, you can't go about trying to "catch" each other doing something wrong. It puts absolutely everything on the wrong foot to begin with.
Thank you sir/madam. The posts saying, "the relationships over" are a bit disenchanting. Not that they're wrong, they could be, but I don't think a deficiency on my part immediately means things have to end.
We got on the subject of commitment earlier today. We got on the topic of open relationships, she talked about the ones she's had previously and I told her that I can't tolerate that. She said she knows, that's why she's not doing it. I asked if she was commited to me, and she got a little aggravated. I've asked before and she said yes, so asking today she wondered why I didn't believe her, and that she knew what she was doing when she moved in with me.
I really appreciate the message in the above quoted posts.
I'm gonna calm down. The next time I get that feelin, I'll try to convey to her that it makes me feel a little nervous. Would it be a douchey thing to do to remind her that when Sonic girl messaged me she got a bit upset? I know it's two different situations, but I did show her what was going on and sent Sonic girl a message telling her about my girlfriend...
Are you trying to screw this relationship up? This would not at all be a good idea.
The answer to this question is almost certainly yes. Even if you have the best of intentions, there's an undercurrent of "you started it" going on that isn't going to end well for you. Because even if you win this argument, you lose.
If you want to move forward, go forward. Acknowledge mistakes that have been made but spend more time focusing on how to address similiar situations in the future instead of tormenting one another with the past.
Feeling a little competitive or jealous because someone is macking on your partner is normal and healthy. Feeling mad at or jealous of your partner because someone is macking on them is a bad thing. I'm sure neither of you are hideous cave-dwelling hermits, so people outside your relationship are naturally going to be interested in one or both of you occasionally. It's something you should feel good about! But, you guys gotta trust each other to figure out if someone is trying to get in thier pants, and believe that they know the best time/way to blow them off in favor of what the two of you have together, however you define it. These are lifeskill everyone needs to develop to be a good girlfriend or boyfriend, and people don't alway get them right in the first relationship or three, nobody is perfect from the get-go. You guys can be better versions of yourselves in this new relationship because you've hypothetically upgraded every time.
I think this right here speaks to the trust issues that have already been mentioned. If you ask someone once if they're committed to a relationship, it sends the message "I'm wondering whether you're committed to this relationship."
If they give you a good answer, and then you ask them again, it sends the message "I don't trust the answer you gave me last time / I'm feeling insecure about our relationship."
If you're going to trust this girl, then almost by definition, you can't question and doubt the answers she gives you without a good reason - that is to say more of a reason than a text or two.
This part worries me a bit. It sounds like she wants an open relationship, but is not "doing it" because you don't want to. Two people wanting two different types of relationships doesn't tend to work.
In my nonprofessional advice, it sounds like she may be having second thoughts, or at least wants to try something different than what you two are currently doing.
To be honest, I think you're completely off base with that. To me it sounds more like 'You don't want an open relationship and I want to be with you so I'm ok with not having one.' Especially because it was the OP who brought it up and went on about how he wouldn't tolerate one as opposed to the OP bringing it up or saying she wanted one after he brought it up.
You just completely made up how you think that conversation went. I went by what he typed.
Not really. You just think that her not doing it means she wants to do it and doesn't want to be in a monogamous relationship with him as opposed to not doing it because she'd rather be with him. Just because she's been in an open relationship in the past it doesn't mean the only relationships she wants are open ones or that she wants one now.
I didn't say that she wants one now because she had them in the past. I said it sounds like she wants an open relationship because the only reason she gave for not being in one now is that the OP doesn't want to be.
And? If she doesn't want to be in one because she's with him and he doesn't want one why does that mean she'd rather be in an open relationship than with him which seems to be what you're implying.
A couple can compromise on a lot of things. A partner giving up a habit or hobby because their SO doesn't want them to do it is an example of this. Compromising on what type of relationship you would prefer, because you SO doesn't want the same thing you want, is quite a bit different.
I'm not saying she would necessarily rather be in an open relationship than be with him. I'm thinking she's probably torn. On one hand it sounds like she wants an open relationship, while on the other hand she still wants him. I'm just saying these type of compromises don't usually turn out well in the long run. Simply my observation.
If you have to ask if something is a douchey thing to do, I think it's pretty well-established that you shouldn't be doing it at all. If you want any shot at keeping this relationship, stop being insecure and drop this whole thing. Your questions, suspicions, trap-laying, and snooping are painting her into a corner. And when you're finished sabotaging the whole thing, you're going to come back and say "ah, I looked at her phone another 60 times, read her email, and talked to her friends over the last couple months, and it looks like I was right. What a bitch, I knew she was going to cheat."
If you don't, if you're too insecure to deal with a girl who has a little experience, then just say so and get on with your life.
It sounds to me like she likes the attention she got from the guy, was into the random aspect of the similar tattoo, and now he's moved on but she still wants attention. Which is likely why she got ahold of the dude when she was bored hanging out with you.
It sounds like she needs a hobby, not a new relationship. If she's sitting around bored waiting for Palooka to interact with her, she's going to be driven to interacting with new people, and will probably end up doing something stupid because of it. Thing is, she'll just continue to do stupid things if, when she's bored, she needs to interact with *other* people. Just because you two are in the same space doesn't mean you need to constantly interact with each other -- but it seems like she feels that you do, and to make up for it she tries to get attention from other people -- friends, guys she meets, whatever.
I'm not saying that you're kind of a douche for snooping. But use what you've found out to try to help both of you, rather than just make her feel guilty. So she texted a guy and flirted with him -- no biggie. If you bring it up, point out that you're like "hey you were bored, I was playing a video game, that's cool you know," but emphasize that you're happy with her but since you're living together you can't always interact with each other 100% of the time. And that you don't want her to get angry or upset over something small and then do something she regrets (like call up a dude and sleep with him).