Penny Arcade Forums› Games and Technology› MMO Extravaganza
The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.

[WoW] Death Knights: In our defense, Arthas was being kind of a dick.

13567…66

Posts

  • aunsophaunsoph Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Dunxco wrote: »
    Dilemma:

    Cryptfiend's Bite or Titansteel Destroyer, until I can get Inevitable Defeat? Being a Dwarf means I'm picking up the bonus Expertise from using the Titansteel, but it's just a quick resocket away, and the extra agility from Cryptfiend's will make up for the dodge I have to socket out of, right?

    ... Right?

    If you're Hit capped for melee, I'd say go with Cryptfiend's Bite, otherwise, Titansteel Destroyer.

    aunsoph on
  • Mr SnafflesMr Snaffles Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Dunxco wrote: »
    Dilemma:

    Cryptfiend's Bite or Titansteel Destroyer, until I can get Inevitable Defeat? Being a Dwarf means I'm picking up the bonus Expertise from using the Titansteel, but it's just a quick resocket away, and the extra agility from Cryptfiend's will make up for the dodge I have to socket out of, right?

    ... Right?

    I'd go for Cryptfiend's Bite. The difference in weapon DPS should significantly outweigh any bonus you get from racial Expertise.

    Mr Snaffles on
  • aunsophaunsoph Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    After brainstorming about our threat woes the other night, I decided to step into the WoW Official Forums and post a list of suggestions regarding our Talents and the possibility of adding threat-oriented secondary effects to our 5/5/5 Big Three.

    Link here.

    If you guys would like to contribute to the discussion, it'd be awesome. The Class Roles Forums are pretty much our best chance of being heard. (If a Blue notices the thread, that is.)

    aunsoph on
  • KiTAKiTA Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    fairweather wrote: »
    The downside of being able to tank / dps fairly well with the same spec is that I get pushed into a dps role when we have other tanks along a lot of times. My guild has 3 geared tanks with a 4th up and coming. When we started Naxx I was relegated to dps most of the time because the other tanks wouldn't do as well in an off role like dps or healing. It wasn't bad though because I still got to roll on tank gear and eventually our MT got bored and now I get to tank most of the time.

    This. I can hit 2.3K DPS in Tank gear and Tank spec. Apparently this means if I go DPS gear, I'll hit 3K. Maybe, but I didn't spend the last 2 months getting a full 7/7.5 Tank set to play spank the mob, eh? :)

    But still, it works out well. I'm still useful, so I still at least get to go. This is in stark contrast to my main, a Hunter I semi-retired back in BC due to "Lol, Shoulda rolled a Pally" syndrome from the old raid leader.

    KiTA on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Well, they've moved Master of Ghouls way down the tree. No more having to ponder getting it for Blood.

    reVerse on
  • ToldoToldo But actually, WeegianRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Question: I'm using Pitbull for my DK's unit frames, but the default Blizzard runes are stuck awkwardly in the upper left corner of my screen. Any suggestions for an addon?

    Toldo on
    Steam!
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I've heard Magic Runes bandied about here before.

    forty on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    MagicRunes is basically the best, in my opinion.

    Dhalphir on
  • AngryAngry The glory I had witnessed was just a sleight of handRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    they also nerfed the shit out of the length of drw.

    definitely going unholy now.

    Angry on
  • ArkanArkan Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Oh man, new PTR notes up on mmo-champion. They made Rime awesome.

    Before: 15% chance that your next howling blast consumes no runes. Nifty, but not amazing, and nearly useless for DW (who has no other 'good' UF attacks)

    Now: 15% chance to bring howling blast off cooldown immediately and for the next howling blast to consume no runes.

    Arkan on
    Big, honkin' pile of WoW characters
    Blackbeard7 wrote: »
    I think it's hard for someone not to rage at mario kart, while shouting "Fuck you Donkey Kong. Whose dick did you suck to get all those red shells?"
  • xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Makes it just like the blood death coil talent.. except not as cool since it's not an autofire. ;)

    xzzy on
  • ArkanArkan Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Yeah, except death coil isn't an AoE that can autocrit via another talent for absurd amounts. (I've gotten 8k+ on some pulls with the right buffs)

    Arkan on
    Big, honkin' pile of WoW characters
    Blackbeard7 wrote: »
    I think it's hard for someone not to rage at mario kart, while shouting "Fuck you Donkey Kong. Whose dick did you suck to get all those red shells?"
  • xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    It just strikes me as interesting how homogenized the three trees are starting to become. Sure each one has it's own flavor, but each tree is certainly borrowing patterns from the others.

    Blizzard running out of ideas? I imagine they're pushing up on a deadline for 3.1 so maybe they're just going the easy route.

    xzzy on
  • RaykefireRaykefire Devil by the Deed Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Stuck on shift behind the FW, could someone put the new patch notes in a spolier for me :)

    Raykefire on
    3dS: 2852-8431-6782
    XBox: Raykefire
  • ZerokkuZerokku Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Death Knight
    Frost

    * Howling Blast cooldown has been reduced from 10 sec to 8 sec.
    * Rime now has a 15% chance to reset the cooldown on Howling Blast and cause your next Howling Blast to consume no runes.

    Unholy

    * Death Strike damage has been lowered, it now deals 60% weapon damage (down from 75%) plus 178.2 (down from 222.75) for Rank 5.
    * Night of the Dead has been moved from Tier 8 to Tier 4.
    * Ghoul Frenzy has been moved from Tier 6 to Tier 7.
    * Master of Ghouls has been moved from Tier 4 to Tier 6.

    Zerokku on
    godotsig.jpg
    The Pipe Vault|Twitter    |Steam|Backloggery|3DS:1332-7703-1083
  • xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    That death strike "change" seems to make it exactly how it is on live right now. At least, that's why my tooltip in game is reading.

    xzzy on
  • RaykefireRaykefire Devil by the Deed Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Zerokku wrote: »
    Death Knight
    Frost

    * Howling Blast cooldown has been reduced from 10 sec to 8 sec.
    * Rime now has a 15% chance to reset the cooldown on Howling Blast and cause your next Howling Blast to consume no runes.

    Unholy

    * Death Strike damage has been lowered, it now deals 60% weapon damage (down from 75%) plus 178.2 (down from 222.75) for Rank 5.
    * Night of the Dead has been moved from Tier 8 to Tier 4.
    * Ghoul Frenzy has been moved from Tier 6 to Tier 7.
    * Master of Ghouls has been moved from Tier 4 to Tier 6.

    Solid changes to Frost, but even though I am not really surprised I was hoping for the easy perma-ghoul. though I guess the NotD move will be a nice dps upgrade for minoring.

    Raykefire on
    3dS: 2852-8431-6782
    XBox: Raykefire
  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    That Death Strike change, along with the DRW, seems a little excessive in terms of nerfing Blood dps. (Since they clearly intend for Death Strike to take the place of Obliterate in the standard Blood rotation)

    Seems a bit odd, since everything I've read places Blood and Unholy neck and neck in terms of DPS prior to these changes.

    Maddoc on
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    With blood talents, it does +30% more damage and has +6% chance to crit

    Meaning that it's roughly equal to oblit. in damage.

    Then you have the talent that boosts Death Strike's critical hit damage.

    Death strike is thus better than oblit. for blood.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Plus, you know, it heals you for retarded amounts, especially on crits.

    I must say I'm happy with where blood is going.

    xzzy on
  • NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    xzzy wrote: »
    Plus, you know, it heals you for retarded amounts, especially on crits.

    I must say I'm happy with where blood is going.

    I believe on PTR the heals can no longer crit for Death Strike.

    Naphtali on
    Steam | Nintendo ID: Naphtali | Wish List
  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Munkus Beaver wrote: »
    With blood talents, it does +30% more damage and has +6% chance to crit

    Meaning that it's roughly equal to oblit. in damage.

    Then you have the talent that boosts Death Strike's critical hit damage.

    Death strike is thus better than oblit. for blood.

    Well yeah, the problem is that even with DS at 75% weapon damage base, Blood wasn't really outdamaging Unholy by any significant amount. It sort of makes me wonder why it was lowered by 15%.

    And yeah, DS heals no longer crit and the healing has been reduced by 20%

    Maddoc on
  • xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Naphtali wrote: »
    xzzy wrote: »
    Plus, you know, it heals you for retarded amounts, especially on crits.

    I must say I'm happy with where blood is going.

    I believe on PTR the heals can no longer crit for Death Strike.

    I don't think the heals have ever critted. Death Strike can crit though, and the healing done is a function of the damage done.

    xzzy on
  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I ought to offer the disclaimer that I am completely in love with Unholy DPS, so my interest in keeping Blood competitive in DPS is that I enjoy not being the same as absolutely every other DK I run across.

    Maddoc on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    So, uh, do they want blood to go back to using Obliterate? Or do they just want blood to continue being the tree that 90% of DKs avoid.
    Munkus Beaver wrote: »
    With blood talents, it does +30% more damage and has +6% chance to crit

    Meaning that it's roughly equal to oblit. in damage.

    Then you have the talent that boosts Death Strike's critical hit damage.

    Death strike is thus better than oblit. for blood.
    Obliterate gets 9% chance to crit from blood talents and +20% damage from a glyph. So basically obliterate does more base damage and probably very similar damage to death strike on crits, with a slightly higher crit rate. The only advantages Death Strike seems to have at this point are that it doesn't require diseases up to do full damage (but heart strike does, so you're going to need to be keeping diseases up anyway) and the self-healing (which for DPS output purposes is irrelevant).

    Or is the intent that by avoiding the frost tree (to get Acclimation), Blood will pick up enough damage talents in Unholy to make up for the lower damage of Death Strike vs. Obliterate?

    forty on
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    Where does oblit get the crit in theblood tree that death strike doesn't? I'm talking about the improved death strike talent.

    this is all in 3.1, btw

    EDIT: And the deathstrike glyph gives a potential 25% boost to deathstrike

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    There's no question that Death Strike is the "new Obliterate" for Blood, but that just means that lowering it back down to 60% base again is a pretty substantial hit to Blood's DPS on the PTR.

    Blood wasn't ahead of Unholy in damage so much that they can afford a 15% nerf to one of their key abilities.

    Maddoc on
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    But I like blood!

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Munkus Beaver wrote: »
    Where does oblit get the crit in theblood tree that death strike doesn't? I'm talking about the improved death strike talent.

    this is all in 3.1, btw

    EDIT: And the deathstrike glyph gives a potential 25% boost to deathstrike
    First Tier? Subversion? 3.1 talent calc doesn't show that changing at all.

    Edit: I was counting the death strike glyph in my math. Improved DS + Glyph of DS will put DS up to a little under 100% weapon damage. Obliterate is like 120% weapon damage with diseases up, and I believe it has a higher static damage bonus as well.

    forty on
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    I will be 100% honest with you, I never really noticed that part of subversion.

    Odd that you get more crit for oblit. from a tier 1 blood talent than you do for death strike in a tier 8 one.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Munkus Beaver wrote: »
    I will be 100% honest with you, I never really noticed that part of subversion.

    Odd that you get more crit for oblit. from a tier 1 blood talent than you do for death strike in a tier 8 one.
    Well, I think it was intended to be as much for frost as it was blood, since Blizzard intended for Obliterate to be a primary frost attack (which it still is for some specs). Blood really seems to be getting shafted in 3.1. The extra two points from the Sudden Doom reduction are just going to be eaten up by improved Death Strike, and it seems like there's going to be even less spec variety as well. Blood's main FU attack is going to be the weakest by far.

    I'll wait until the patch hits and see how it actually works out before I judge, but things look disappointing at the moment.

    Edit: Another thing I just realized: are the T7 set bonuses being changed in 3.1? If not, they're going to be useless for blood. Somehow I doubt Blizzard has taken this into account in their DK balance floundering.

    forty on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I would have liked to see blood remain a viably diseaseless spec.

    why couldn't you have the three distinct trees...unholy being disease-based, blood as physical based, and frost as...whatever it is

    Dhalphir on
  • BrilliantInsanityBrilliantInsanity Charleston, WVRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Frost based? :P

    BrilliantInsanity on
    steam_sig.png

    Sixty -40- on Origin for some ME3 goodness.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/brilliantinsanity/
  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I noticed the T7 problem pretty early on when it became evident that Blizz was taking Obliterate from Blood and giving them DS instead.

    I can only assume that they're only looking forward. T7 concerns them less only because T8 will be balanced with these changes in mind. It's not a super great way to handle it, but it wouldn't terribly surprise me either. Considering that the Ob->DS switch happened early on with the PTR, and T7 still remains the same over there, I'd be more surprised if they did change it.

    EDIT: Also, only tangentially related, but I'm going to enjoy watching the "Diseaseless Blood" DKs acclimate themselves to pressing more than three buttons. :P

    Maddoc on
  • JamesJames Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    wow, thank god for the HB changes

    James on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Maddoc wrote: »
    EDIT: Also, only tangentially related, but I'm going to enjoy watching the "Diseaseless Blood" DKs acclimate themselves to pressing more than three buttons. :P
    And then they'll just spec Unholy to do more DPS for less effort like the rest of the cookie cutter brigade. :/

    The T7 bonus oversight is just retardation on wheels, though. I can't think of any class/spec that gets absolutely nothing out of either of its T7 bonuses.

    forty on
  • WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    James wrote: »
    wow, thank god for the HB changes

    Ill take it, but theres some confusion here with what they are doing.

    They want to get rid of Icy Touch spam. So they nerf Icy touch.

    Then they make changes to Rime and HB that promote the spamming of Icy Touch.

    :|

    Whut.

    Wassermelone on
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/wassemelone
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Did they say they want to get rid of icy touch spam or just make it not a dominant spec like with dual wield? Icy touch damage has been nerfed, the Rime/HB changes aren't really a damage buff of any sort, and now 51 frost is required, so the spec should be worse.

    forty on
  • ExistentialSoundandFuryExistentialSoundandFury Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Icy Touch and Obliterate (assuming that has not changed) can proc Rime so I'd just assume spam Oblit.

    Is there any word on fixing the bug with Ebon Plaguebringer only counting as a disease for one Unholy DK? Its a shitty bug that came up in my guild, since I'm Unholy tanking and there's an Unholy dps that bitched at me about it.

    To that point, how significant is the damage loss for the DK that doesn't get to count the third disease?

    ExistentialSoundandFury on
    399831.jpg
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I don't think Obliterate can proc Rime or ever could (except maybe in beta or something).

    forty on
This discussion has been closed.
Penny Arcade Forums› Games and Technology› MMO Extravaganza