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The table top vs. technology - Wizards of the Coast and PDFs

eMouseeMouse Registered User new member
edited April 2009 in Games and Technology
At least two RPG PDF retailing web sites have or are in the process of shutting down their sales of PDFs by Wizards of the Coast publications at the request of WotC.

A WotC spokesman was quoted in their forums and by ICV2 as saying
Unfortunately, due to recent findings of illegal copying and online distribution (piracy) of our products, Wizards of the Coast has decided to cease the sale of online PDFs.

We are exploring other options for digital distribution of our content

Might I suggest etching 1s and 0s into stone tablets?

eMouse on

Posts

  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Their loss.


    Though I have to wonder, between their character generator and PDF sales, are their physical book sales hurting?

    Athenor on
    He/Him | "We who believe in freedom cannot rest." - Dr. Johnetta Cole, 7/22/2024
  • Cynic JesterCynic Jester Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Their loss indeed. Something tells me it'll still be possible to find PDFs online.

    Cynic Jester on
  • VicVic Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    due to recent findings of illegal copying and online distribution (piracy) of our products, Wizards of the Coast has decided to make piracy the only option

    Fixed

    Of course, the pirates will have to resort to scans, but for all I know they already did that.

    Vic on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator, Administrator admin
    edited April 2009
    That's totally their loss. Tons of people say they already own the books, but still download PDFs to have on their laptops for easier access.

    Echo on
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2009
    Player's Handbook makes a great mouse pad, but I would still dig having a more versatile electronic format.

    Just_Bri_Thanks on
    ...and when you are done with that; take a folding
    chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
  • SurikoSuriko AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I have a physical book for offline D&D and a pdf for IRC D&D. ctrl+f <skill name> is better than sticky-notes.

    Suriko on
  • Mithrandir86Mithrandir86 Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Vic wrote: »
    due to recent findings of illegal copying and online distribution (piracy) of our products, Wizards of the Coast has decided to make piracy the only option, by ceasing sales of a medium unrelated to the piracy process

    Mithrandir86 on
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Vic wrote: »
    due to recent findings of illegal copying and online distribution (piracy) of our products, Wizards of the Coast has decided to make piracy the only option, by ceasing sales of a medium unrelated to the piracy process

    What do you mean by that? The PDFs are totally related to the piracy process. The PDFs in question are most likely the professional master copies of the print publications that include search capability (due to the text being a part of the PDF and not just an image). So honestly? It is everyone's loss. Now pirated books will just be crappy scans, unless someone goes to a lot of trouble, runs OCR on them and corrects it by hand.

    UncleSporky on
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  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Vic wrote: »
    due to recent findings of illegal copying and online distribution (piracy) of our products, Wizards of the Coast has decided to make piracy the only option, by ceasing sales of a medium unrelated to the piracy process

    What do you mean by that? The PDFs are totally related to the piracy process. The PDFs in question are most likely the professional master copies of the print publications that include search capability (due to the text being a part of the PDF and not just an image). So honestly? It is everyone's loss. Now pirated books will just be crappy scans, unless someone goes to a lot of trouble, runs OCR on them and corrects it by hand.
    He means that before this if you wanted a PDF you could buy it. Now if you want a pdf you can't buy it, so you have to do without or download it. Both of which do not give any money to WotC.

    Mojo_Jojo on
    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
  • DietarySupplementDietarySupplement Still not approved by the FDA Dublin, OHRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Maybe it's just me, but the indexes in the various players handbooks (and not just WotC products) are absolute shit and if anything I buy a PDF copy with the explicit purpose of being able to search them. Hell, often times I'll use the search feature to find a rule quickly, but for every-day reading or gaming I'll still crack a book.

    tl;dr apparently they don't want my money twice.

    DietarySupplement on
  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User, Moderator, Administrator admin
    edited April 2009
    Sources (which WotC spokesperson and what forum)? Which sites are no longer selling WotC PDFs? Any official announcements from the publishing sites? Any sites that are still publishing the PDFs? There's just not all that much info in the OP.

    Hahnsoo1 on
    8i1dt37buh2m.png
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator, Administrator admin
    edited April 2009
    Suriko wrote: »
    I have a physical book for offline D&D and a pdf for IRC D&D. ctrl+f <skill name> is better than sticky-notes.

    And you don't even need a PDF, really. The entire PHB is online, minus character creation rules.
    Maybe it's just me, but the indexes in the various players handbooks (and not just WotC products) are absolute shit

    I haven't even opened my D&D books in years, but this was a pretty big peeve for me too back in the day. Eventually I just memorized the page numbers for the stuff I looked up frequently.

    Echo on
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    On the upside maybe this will be a huge boost to Pathfinder.

    UncleSporky on
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  • xeviqxeviq Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    Sources (which WotC spokesperson and what forum)? Which sites are no longer selling WotC PDFs? Any official announcements from the publishing sites? Any sites that are still publishing the PDFs? There's just not all that much info in the OP.
    I don't have a link or anything, but I did get an email from Paizo publishing about this topic just earlier this morning.
    Edit: Ctrl+V the email:
    Paizo wrote:
    Dear Eric,

    Wizards of the Coast has notified us that we may no longer sell or distribute their PDF products. Accordingly, after April 6 at 11:59 PM Pacific time, Wizards of the Coast PDFs will no longer be available for purchase on paizo.com; after noon on April 7, you will no longer be able to download Wizards of the Coast PDFs that you have already purchased, so please make sure you have downloaded all purchased PDFs by that time.

    We thank you for your patronage of paizo.com. Please check out our other downloads at paizo.com/store/downloads.

    Sincerely yours,
    The Paizo Customer Service Team

    xeviq on
  • eMouseeMouse Registered User new member
    edited April 2009
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    Sources (which WotC spokesperson and what forum)?

    The ICV2 article which is really easy to find on their front page...
    http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/14693.html

    The big forum thread about it on WotC's forum, which is a bit harder to find...
    http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1172698
    Which sites are no longer selling WotC PDFs? Any official announcements from the publishing sites? Any sites that are still publishing the PDFs? There's just not all that much info in the OP.

    Uhm, all of them, as implied by the 'ceased the sale of online PDFs' statement.

    eMouse on
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Personally, I'm a pimp/whore for Catalyst's system, which has embraced the internet in a way that I completely admire. Oh, sure, I'd like discounts on list from them, but what they do is offer a fairly good discount if you buy the physical and the PDF copy of the book at the same time. I did this with the Shadowrun 30th Anniversary edition. Hell, I bought a regular and an LE edition and got the PDF for free, which has already been updated once!

    Then of course there are the PDF-only products, things that are 8-16 pages that would make no sense to print properly, but releasing them as PDF just works. Oh, and things like Battlerun: Best Ever, which I've been looking for an excuse to post to this forum for a few days now, as it is the greatest April Fool's Joke I've ever seen in gaming terms.


    So... yeah. Not selling PDFs is shooting themselves in the foot. I'd love to see the sales data they based this decision on. Next thing you know they'll make 4.5 require everyone to purchase their own PHB or something.


    (Hell, if anything the switch to using power cards is probably hurting book sales more than anything else... Well, that and the FUCKING PRICE! Jeez.)

    Athenor on
    He/Him | "We who believe in freedom cannot rest." - Dr. Johnetta Cole, 7/22/2024
  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    xeviq wrote: »
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    Sources (which WotC spokesperson and what forum)? Which sites are no longer selling WotC PDFs? Any official announcements from the publishing sites? Any sites that are still publishing the PDFs? There's just not all that much info in the OP.
    I don't have a link or anything, but I did get an email from Paizo publishing about this topic just earlier this morning.
    Edit: Ctrl+V the email:
    Paizo wrote:
    Dear Eric,

    Wizards of the Coast has notified us that we may no longer sell or distribute their PDF products. Accordingly, after April 6 at 11:59 PM Pacific time, Wizards of the Coast PDFs will no longer be available for purchase on paizo.com; after noon on April 7, you will no longer be able to download Wizards of the Coast PDFs that you have already purchased, so please make sure you have downloaded all purchased PDFs by that time.

    We thank you for your patronage of paizo.com. Please check out our other downloads at paizo.com/store/downloads.

    Sincerely yours,
    The Paizo Customer Service Team

    Wow, nice of them to give you a whole morning to download things that you've bought.

    tsmvengy on
    steam_sig.png
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Vic wrote: »
    due to recent findings of illegal copying and online distribution (piracy) of our products, Wizards of the Coast has decided to make piracy the only option, by ceasing sales of a medium unrelated to the piracy process

    What do you mean by that? The PDFs are totally related to the piracy process. The PDFs in question are most likely the professional master copies of the print publications that include search capability (due to the text being a part of the PDF and not just an image). So honestly? It is everyone's loss. Now pirated books will just be crappy scans, unless someone goes to a lot of trouble, runs OCR on them and corrects it by hand.

    that's pretty much what they've always done and it worked well enough.

    DanHibiki on
  • KKprofitKKprofit Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Vic wrote: »
    due to recent findings of illegal copying and online distribution (piracy) of our products, Wizards of the Coast has decided to make piracy the only option, by ceasing sales of a medium unrelated to the piracy process

    What do you mean by that? The PDFs are totally related to the piracy process. The PDFs in question are most likely the professional master copies of the print publications that include search capability (due to the text being a part of the PDF and not just an image). So honestly? It is everyone's loss. Now pirated books will just be crappy scans, unless someone goes to a lot of trouble, runs OCR on them and corrects it by hand.

    that's pretty much what they've always done and it worked well enough.


    Yeah. The pages are cut out of the book, and they are fed into a page scanner. The first guy usually just shares the unmodified scan. Then the second person in the chain gets it and adds bookmarks by chapter. Usually there are a couple of other guys in the chain that go in and add the rest of the details later. 0 day scans are almost always done this way in my experience. I usually don't see the official pdfs in circulation.

    KKprofit on
  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I don't actually see this solving the piracy problem. They've only succeeded in cutting off paying customers, as many of you have already mentioned.

    I think WotC has done a lot of good in the past couple years, but when it comes to digital distribution they've always had their heads up their asses.

    GoodKingJayIII on
    Battletag: Threeve#1501; PSN: Threeve703; Steam: 3eeve
  • elkataselkatas Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Blah, even more ridiculous is that they removed the classic AD&D and Alternity products too. I mean, it surely hurts lot of their bottomline if someone pirates PDF for a book that has been out of print for more than 20 years.

    elkatas on
    Hypnotically inclined.
  • SceptreSceptre Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Man, I didn't even realize these were available online. I wish I had more people to play D&D with.

    Someone mentioned that there are IRC D&D groups? Wow.

    Sceptre on
  • xeviqxeviq Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    tsmvengy wrote: »
    xeviq wrote: »
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    Sources (which WotC spokesperson and what forum)? Which sites are no longer selling WotC PDFs? Any official announcements from the publishing sites? Any sites that are still publishing the PDFs? There's just not all that much info in the OP.
    I don't have a link or anything, but I did get an email from Paizo publishing about this topic just earlier this morning.
    Edit: Ctrl+V the email:
    Paizo wrote:
    Dear Eric,

    Wizards of the Coast has notified us that we may no longer sell or distribute their PDF products. Accordingly, after April 6 at 11:59 PM Pacific time, Wizards of the Coast PDFs will no longer be available for purchase on paizo.com; after noon on April 7, you will no longer be able to download Wizards of the Coast PDFs that you have already purchased, so please make sure you have downloaded all purchased PDFs by that time.

    We thank you for your patronage of paizo.com. Please check out our other downloads at paizo.com/store/downloads.

    Sincerely yours,
    The Paizo Customer Service Team

    Wow, nice of them to give you a whole morning to download things that you've bought.

    That's prolly the Paizo could have done. It seems like WotC just came out of the shadows to tell everyone, "No."

    xeviq on
  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    PDFs are quite easy to share.

    Zombiemambo on
    JKKaAGp.png
  • elkataselkatas Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    xeviq wrote: »
    That's prolly the Paizo could have done. It seems like WotC just came out of the shadows to tell everyone, "No."

    More likely is that this order came from Hasbro which wants to improve WOTC's profitability no matter what.

    elkatas on
    Hypnotically inclined.
  • WoodroezWoodroez Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Echo wrote: »
    Suriko wrote: »
    I have a physical book for offline D&D and a pdf for IRC D&D. ctrl+f <skill name> is better than sticky-notes.

    And you don't even need a PDF, really. The entire PHB is online, minus character creation rules.

    Since WotC also altered some policies related to fair use and what have you, the srd cannot and will not ever cover 4th ed or probably anything after it.

    Woodroez on
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