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Real simple chemistry / physics question.

Chop LogicChop Logic Registered User regular
edited April 2009 in Help / Advice Forum
I am doing some homework regarding fusion and nucleosynthesis.

All I have to do is add some elements together, but I was absent in class this day. I know how to do everything else.

If I have: (All of the numbers are small and raised, like exponents)

4He + 4He =

Does that just become 8He?

What about:

4He + 12C = ?

I'm sure this is simple, I just didn't know what to google to find my answer. Thanks a lot.

Chop Logic on

Posts

  • DmanDman Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    the way your describing the notation I'm thinking your talking about isotopes:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotope

    I'm not extremely versed in chemistry but i'm thinking maybe it's

    4He+4He=4He2+energy Edit:this is wrong but it seemed like a good guess at the time see below.

    where the 4's are all superscripts and the 2 is a subscript.

    Edit: actually according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium_fusion
    The fusion of helium-4 nuclei (alpha particles) is known as the triple-alpha process, because fusion of just two helium nuclei only produces beryllium-8

    Dman on
  • RookRook Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Get out your periodic table and have a look at what happens when you add all the protons together.

    Rook on
  • Chop LogicChop Logic Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ^I'm not trying to get you guys to do my homework for me. What I'm saying is that, I wouldn't know how to do that.

    Chop Logic on
  • DmanDman Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Chop Logic wrote: »
    ^I'm not trying to get you guys to do my homework for me. What I'm saying is that, I wouldn't know how to do that.

    I'm copying the whole dang wiki article here.
    Helium fusion
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Jump to: navigation, search

    Helium fusion is a kind of nuclear fusion, with the nuclei involved being helium.

    The fusion of helium-4 nuclei (alpha particles) is known as the triple-alpha process, because fusion of just two helium nuclei only produces beryllium-8, which is unstable and breaks back down to two helium nuclei with a half life of 1×10−16 to 2.6×10−16 seconds. If the core temperature of a star exceeds 100 million kelvins (100 megakelvins), as may happen in the later phase of red giants and red supergiants, then a third helium nucleus has a significant chance of fusing with the beryllium-8 nucleus before it breaks down, thus forming carbon-12. Depending upon the temperature and density, an additional helium nucleus may fuse with carbon-12 to form oxygen-16, and at very high temperatures, additional fusions of helium to oxygen and heavier nuclei may occur (see alpha process).

    The fusion of helium-3 with itself or with helium-4 occurs during the fusion of hydrogen in main sequence stars (see proton-proton chain), and is not ordinarily referred to as helium fusion.

    those reactions look familiar?
    so 4He+4He->8Be
    4He+12C->16C

    But you should look into why this happens so you understand it, (i'm not a chemist/physicist)

    stuff in the periodic table is organised by number of protons in the nucleus.
    He has 2 protons
    2protons+2protons=4protons
    Be has 4 protons
    carbon has 6 proton
    2protons+6proton=8protons
    oxygen has 8 protons

    that's how you get the answer (more or less)

    Edit: http://www.webelements.com/

    Dman on
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I think you are referring to nuclear chemistry yes?
    Make sure that it is nuclear chemistry and not just electron exchange.
    Next, make sure that you have 4/2 He and not 3/2 He, because I can find very little on 4/2 He but a lot of stuff on 3/2 He.


    Were you just giving a made up example illustrating the concept, or this is a real problem?

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
  • TarantioTarantio Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Those numbers are the atomic mass. 1 unit of atomic mass is approximately the mass of one proton or neutron (they are almost the same).

    Since the element is determined by the number of protons in the nucleus, you can tell by checking your handy periodic table that an atom of helium with an atomic mass of 4 has two protons and two neutrons. (Atoms with different numbers of neutrons, but the same number of protons, are called isotopes of the element. )

    So, what do you get when you combine two helium atoms of atomic mass 4? 4 protons and 4 neutrons. Check your handy periodic table again, and you can see that that's an isotope of beryllium. (Incidentally, it's not a stable one. The listed mass on the table for beryllium is 9, so you can tell it would be more stable with 1 more neutron.)

    Tarantio on
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    If its an unstable isotope, you then get to figure out which decay (alpha, beta, gamma) will make it stable and write that reaction too!

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
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