Fuck Florida - Return Of The Debtor's Prison Edition

AngelHedgie

Don't worry, that sound you hear is just Charles Dickens going at 10,000 RPM.

State judges have been throwing poor people into jail for not paying even minor debts owed to Florida courts. This is a frightening development, particularly when one considers that twenty-five other states are watching and eager to learn how to fundraise in this same horrifying manner.

For those of us who prefer to learn from history rather than repeat it, this is a terrifying trend. One would hope shining a flashlight on the practice could help to eradicate it and discourage other states from emulating such poor behavior. The example given in a New York Times’ article cites a woman who was convicted and sentenced to a crime in 1996. The article outlines how she paid her fine, performed community service as required and thought she had left the justice system behind.

Recently a Florida state judge threatened her with jail. Why? Because she had failed to pay the final $240 in court courts that remained owing in her case.

We got rid of debtor's prisons a long time ago for several reasons, not the least of which was that those caught in them wound up in a death spiral of poverty. The person who came up with this idea to boost revenue needs to be fired, PDQ.

OremLK

Isn't this just going to cost the state MORE money housing and feeding these people? Forgetting the effects on the debtors themselves, this is just stupid and impractical.

Alecthar

I'm pretty sure the idea is to threaten a person with jail to ensure payment of these debts to the state. Your point is, I think, a good one, as I'm sure that the cost of any length of time in a jail exceeds a minor debt in court fees. It seems a great deal like an empty threat.

This doesn't even go into the the obvious fact that, as AngelHedgie noted, a debtor's prison generally only reinforces poverty, as you can't exactly earn enough to pay your debts when you're locked up. States would be far better served by leaving small debts like this alone and keeping people in the workforce.

That said, I feel like a small term of community service might be appropriate as repayment for small debts like this. The debtor works off the debt, and the state gets a little volunteer work.

Rhesus Positive

That's what I was going to suggest, Alecthar - if they're going to return to Dickensian values, bring back the workhouse rather than the debtor's prison.

SyphonBlue

Godammit I hate this state sometimes.

Andrew_Jay

This is something that came to mind while reading the Dubai thread last night, but it's also a violation (well, depending on how quickly they resort to locking people up) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights . . . I think.

nexuscrawler

OremLK wrote: »

Isn't this just going to cost the state MORE money housing and feeding these people? Forgetting the effects on the debtors themselves, this is just stupid and impractical.

This is why old Debtors prisons were forced labor camps basically.

god Florida get something right

Lord Yod

Andrew_Jay wrote: »

This is something that came to mind while reading the Dubai thread last night, but it's also a violation (well, depending on how quickly they resort to locking people up) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights . . . I think.

Sure looks like it to me:

Article 11 wrote:

No one shall be imprisoned merely on the ground of inability to fulfil a contractual obligation.

postinonthenets

SyphonBlue wrote: »

Godammit I hate this state sometimes.

Cantido

Fuck my state!

Yeah, it'll never work, it turns out people consume food and water, matter and energy.

Florida to distribute free suicide pills for everyone in poverty.

Scooter

I could see it as a punishment (bad idea, but it's an idea). But to claim it's a way of raising money is just stupid. They'd probably pay more than $240 in costs just in the first day of getting her sent to prison.

werehippy

nexuscrawler wrote: »

OremLK wrote: »

Isn't this just going to cost the state MORE money housing and feeding these people? Forgetting the effects on the debtors themselves, this is just stupid and impractical.

This is why old Debtors prisons were forced labor camps basically.

god Florida get something right

The original article I read on this (I can't find it at the moment) charged the people being locked up for their time in prison (specifically someone was about to be thrown back in after paying their original debt because they couldn't pay for the cost of their incarceration).

The sheer screwed up nature of this is staggering. This should be on the agenda for an off year, because it's all upside to support not being able jail people for falling on hard times and anyone who opposes it will get hammered.

Couscous

Florida seems to have done a lot of retarded legal shit recently.

How cuts may be illegal

THE Miami-Dade County Public Defender’s Office has had enough. Overworked and underfunded in its efforts to provide lawyers for the poor, it tried last June to decline all new non-capital cases. In September a judge ruled that it could turn away so-called third-degree felony cases, such as people pulled in for possession of soft drugs. On March 30th three appellate judges heard arguments as to whether the September ruling was valid.

Public defenders in Florida’s 20 judicial circuits have a crushing workload: in some cases, more than double the 200 cases a year that their association recommends. And ever since the state legislature cut their funds in the latest budget squeeze, they have been struggling with less money and lower pay. But to withdraw from cases, or to refuse to take them, may be illegal under both Article I, section 9 of the Florida constitution (due process) and the federal constitution, which guarantees both due process under the 14th amendment and the right to counsel.

Florida was the origin of Gideon v Wainwright, a case that prompted the Supreme Court to rule, in 1963, that anyone accused of a felony had the right to a lawyer. The decision also noted that if the defendant was too poor to hire a lawyer, the state should provide one for him. That charitable thought seems to have withered in the cold blasts of the recession. In Florida’s 5th judicial circuit, a five-county area about the size of Connecticut with more than 1m people, the public defender’s office has lost $209,000 in recent cuts. “In the last 18 months, we’ve lost 12% [of our budget],” says Michael Lupton, the office’s director. Florida’s other 19 public defender’s offices have faced sharp cuts, too.

Lack of money hampers public defender’s jobs in all sorts of ways. They cannot have clients evaluated by psychiatrists. It is harder, if not impossible, to appeal rulings that go against clients. And any hope of a pay rise for their long days is now a distant dream.

As for the cases that are turned away, the judge’s ruling in September would send them to the Office of Regional Council, a small consortium of lawyers who do pro bono work. Cases rejected by the council would be passed on to private lawyers. And how would those be paid? More than likely, the taxpayer will end up footing the bill.

They are fucking dumbasses.

Couscous

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2009/04/07/i-owe-i-owe-its-off-to-jail-i-go/

Florida, however, has continued to tighten its grip. Since 2004, the Legislature has required courts to support their operating expenses substantially through fees collected by county clerks.

And those who can’t pay face jail time. Florida officials justify the sanction and get around “debtor’s prison” accusations by arguing that, technically, they are jailing people because they violated court orders.

Charles A. Francis, the chief judge of the state’s Second Judicial Circuit, said most judges found Collections Court “the most unpleasant part of the job.” The judges try not to jail people over fees, he said, but added, “Do you allow the orders of your court to go ignored?”

That is a fucking pathetic excuse.

PantsB

I have a friend from here in Massachusetts who is a PhD student at Vanderbilt. She changed the registration of her car and everything but the town still sent her parent's address an excise tax bill. She sent back the Tennessee registration showing she had moved. They didn't believe it. She sent it back again. They sent her a warrant for her arrest.

Its not just dumb states, its dumb towns.