The Space Sims Megathread (NSF56k/Aliens/Enemy Convoys)

Axen

What about Colony Wars? I though it was awesome and probably one of the best space sims on the console.

Orogogus

Stormwatcher wrote: »

Kagera wrote: »

Aw fuck now I'm at wcnews downloading ever Privateer 2 cinematic they have.

THANKS THREAD.

edit: Yeah no I just got those games separately.

Sorry, double post.

I got banned from that site's forum (crius.net) because I disagree with the "official line" that A) All other space sims that aren't WC suck (and that Freespace 2 singlehandedly killed the Space Sim genre) and that EA Games is not the greatest thing ever invented by man. Oh, I also think that Tolwyn was Space-Hitler in WC4, and they love that guy too much to admit it.

They're pretty crazy over there. Anyone who disagrees with the main honcho LOAF is banned. They're also all very strongly right-wing politically oriented, and not really into things like freedom of opinion within the site, or the notion that there isn't just one valid truth for anything.

On the other hand, the site itself (wcnes.com) is the most wonderful place to find all kinds of awesome files and info about the games. And LOAF knows about everything there is to know about Wing Commander. He knows more than the developers and even Chris Roberts. He helped the new guys implement the WC lore in the 360 Arcade game, and gave them lots of cool info to be included in the new manual. The Prophecy devs named a few star systems in the really great galaxy map after the WC News crew.

They also have the entire Wing Commander cartoon series for download. Apparently it's kinda allowed by EA, they never do anything to upset EA, which makes sense, as EA likes the site.

WCNews used to be rabidly anti-any-space-shooter-that-isn't-Wing-Commander, but they seemed to have eased up on that in the last 2 or 3 years, insofar as they post news on other games without tearing them to pieces now. I do remember emailing them to ask why they were being so hard on Freespace 2 or something back in the day and getting a giant nonsensical rant in my inbox.

StuffGuy

I have just realized that I really could use some good old Spacesim goodness. I mentioned this to a friend, who is also interested. So, now I really gotta ask, anyone know of any good options for Co-op? I seem to remember hearing at one point that there was a freespace mod for co-op, but all I can find is that Freespace 2 has stand-alone co-op missions, which arnt quite what Im looking for, as Id prefer a full-blown co-op campaign.

delroland

My favorite part of FS2 is when Beta 2 shows up. Remember him? He was the dude that was part of Beta wing, the one that disappeared in the nebula without a trace.

Then you go back to the nebula, like a bajillion missions later, feeling all hot shit because you are totally pwning the badguys left and right, when all of a sudden you get a random blip on radar: Beta 2 appearing out of nowhere on full afterburner going, 'OH SHIT OH SHIT OH SHIT,' towards the GTVA fleet, with a bunch of baddies hot on his ass.

That was when the shit hit the fan, and it was glorious. :twisted:

Edit: also, drunken emo WC3 piloting is fun!

WC3

Was it even possible to save Angel on that one mission versus the douchebag Kilrathi ace?

Orogogus

StuffGuy wrote: »

I have just realized that I really could use some good old Spacesim goodness. I mentioned this to a friend, who is also interested. So, now I really gotta ask, anyone know of any good options for Co-op? I seem to remember hearing at one point that there was a freespace mod for co-op, but all I can find is that Freespace 2 has stand-alone co-op missions, which arnt quite what Im looking for, as Id prefer a full-blown co-op campaign.

Starlancer has a co-op campaign. I don't care for the game, really, but I think it's the only one that has co-op out of the box. I'm all but sure that Freelancer must have a mod that patched it in.

Descent 1 & 2 (and 3, probably) were co-op; not exactly a space sim, but maybe close enough for jazz.

Jedi Starfighter on the Xbox/PS2 had a co-op campaign. And I think Rogue Squadron 2 on the Gamecube had the Rogue Squadron 1 missions as co-op?

And, uh, EVE Online.

====

delroland wrote: »

WC3

Was it even possible to save Angel on that one mission versus the douchebag Kilrathi ace?

I think Angel was long dead by the time you fight the prince, so no.

Kagera

Angel

died in the beginning of the game so no, like so many in the Wing Commander universe she was fucked.

This reminds me however a game I loved back in the day was Star Crusader. I think it was by Take2 and it was pretty cool because you started out as a n00b but then you could control your forces later on like choose which sectors on the map to send your ships to and whether it's to raid, occupy, patrol, or defend. You also needed to devote some of your better pilots to training or you'd be pumping out rookies that couldn't fight for shit. It had two distinct sides one which was an Empire that took over systems in the galaxy through peace or force in order to 'civilize the natives' and a group of aliens who banded together to fight the Empire. There was quite a few different ships each with different play styles and like 4 or 5 different endings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1gAJMxxnR8

Also it's funny how wcnews like DEPENDS on Freespace mods to post anything new nowadays.

cj iwakura

I love Wing Commander the most, especially for the branching dialogue segments.

And no game since has done live action cinematics better.

Khavall

cj iwakura wrote: »

I love Wing Commander the most, especially for the branching dialogue segments.

And no game since has done live action cinematics better.

Jedi Knight would like a word with you

cj iwakura

Khavall wrote: »

cj iwakura wrote: »

I love Wing Commander the most, especially for the branching dialogue segments.

And no game since has done live action cinematics better.

Jedi Knight would like a word with you

Was that after WC3/4? Never played it, unfortunately.

Kagera

I never got to play Jedi Knight myself just the Dark Forces 1 demo and rented Mysteries of the Sith and played THAT for 5 minutes then all of the sudden Jedi Outcast comes out and I'm confused as to what the hell is going on.

Khavall

cj iwakura wrote: »

Khavall wrote: »

cj iwakura wrote: »

I love Wing Commander the most, especially for the branching dialogue segments.

And no game since has done live action cinematics better.

Jedi Knight would like a word with you

Was that after WC3/4? Never played it, unfortunately.

I'm not sure in terms of date, but I do remember that the cinematics were just so goddamn awesome. Looking back they're cheesy as fuck and nothing special but holy fuck Kyle Katarn is onscreen and talking and shit he's got a Bryar pistol

cj iwakura

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmWA-ILJ9wo

MegaMek

So... Starlancer is great.

Just throwing that out there.

Kagera

Oh god, an Evanescence video for WC 3.

Then again I just saw the 3DO intro for Super Wing Commander which was pretty cool.

KingMole

Kagera wrote: »

Also offtopic but I never got the hang of IL2. It was just too much for me.

Really? I thought it was one of the easier-to-get-a-hang-of WWII flight sims.

Back on topic, I would love to try and get an XWA battle going, but my PC is shot to shit. This thread appeared at a really inopportune time.

Kagera

I dunno, my main WW2 flight sim experience was Aces over the Pacific and Aces over Europe with the European Air War demo sprinkled in.

Yet for some reason I thought buying Falcon 4.0 was a good idea.

Sorenson

Kagera wrote: »

This reminds me however a game I loved back in the day was Star Crusader. I think it was by Take2 and it was pretty cool because you started out as a n00b but then you could control your forces later on like choose which sectors on the map to send your ships to and whether it's to raid, occupy, patrol, or defend. You also needed to devote some of your better pilots to training or you'd be pumping out rookies that couldn't fight for shit. It had two distinct sides one which was an Empire that took over systems in the galaxy through peace or force in order to 'civilize the natives' and a group of aliens who banded together to fight the Empire. There was quite a few different ships each with different play styles and like 4 or 5 different endings.

Oh, Yes. So many afternoons spent playing that game, mucking around in the simulator and capturing virtual ships that somehow materialized into the hangers, reading up on all the info in the in-game encyclopedia, giving my strike teams the most interesting and wierd ship assignments, flinging insults at the enemy pilots mid-battle. When the fuck in recent years have we been able to beam insults directly to our enemies in combat? I installed and played and reinstalled and replayed that game until the very day the disc cracked from overuse, and loved every minute of it.

My one regret:

Never being able to capture one of those neat-o stealth fighters from that one alien race (you know them, they had reddish ships, one of them looked like a B5 Star Fury and had a special weapon that basically fired miniature suns like missiles). Oh, how I tried and tried and tried.

I never got to play that one expansion that they mentioned about halfway during the game, just after

that mission where you're sent to that one sector that everybody fucking steers clear of, and you lock onto an unknown object about ten or so kilometers ahead of you right after jumping in, and as you fly towards it you pass by all these disabled fighters until you get just within range of that strange object to scan it when it goes into an in-engine cinematic where the object turns around to reveal its gigantic, gaping orange maw that then sucks your fighter in.

And then they give you a screen of text that basically says "Find out what happened by buying (expansion name)!" and you go on to de-briefing and your dude's basically going "well, that was one heck of an adventure!". Dicks.

EDIT: and watching the LP by that dude whose video you linked to made me remember how much I was simaltaniously intrigued and freaked out by the dude sitting in the chair in the briefing room. I mean, he's suspended, in the air, for what seems like no reason, apparently wearing a gasmask with a gigantic LED for a facial vizor. And the sound he makes whenever he swings around, and that wierd beating noise you'd hear when you were examening stuff on the mission map...man.

Velmeran

Star Lancer is my favorite 2nd generation space sim (1st gen woudl be Wing commander 1/2 Xwing/Tiefighter, things that old etc).

Got it in college, two room mates and I played co-op (holy shit, a COOP space sim!) campaign all the way until we got to that FUCKING BULLSHIT STOLEN BOMBER MISSION! In single player, not so bad, since ai can die you keep going. In Co-op, anyone dies, your fucked and have to restart.

Not to mention the retarded AI on the mission, we were literally in our formation, no ability to really manuever due to the special rules of that mission, and out of no where an enemy fight just rams right into my buddy, head on, killing him, making us start the SLOW (takes like 4 minutes just to get to the "start" of the mission in that one) trek all over again.

I've never beaten that game simply due to that one mission.

Silpheed

Man, I'm trying to recall an old SSI game where you controlled a space base with it's compliment of figters and pilots after your CO bites it. Your pilots would levelup in typical RPG fashion and you could upgrade your fighters as the game progressed. Does anyone recall this game?

Cherrn

Holy shit at The Tomorrow War. The surface graphics look like something from 2001, but the idea of being able to make planetfall without having to load is still awesome as hell.

Then I took a look at some space footage :shock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgSGMtLJ1_s&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Erockpapershotgun%2Ecom%2F2008%2F08%2F22%2Fthe%2Dtomorrow%2Dwar%2Dhard%2Dsci%2Dfi%2F&feature=player_embedded

The scale

Too bad the chances of it ever getting a decent English translation are miniscule.

KingMole

That HUD is nearly identical to SWG's space one.

EDIT: Ok, maybe not. Maybe Freelancer? I could swear I've seen it somewhere before.

Stormwatcher

God, people, stop talking about Wing Commander while I'm asleep!!!

Yeah, WC4's movies are the BEST GAME FMVs ever made. They were shot with real film cameras on real built sets! They had the best cast ever! They weren't just talking heads (like in every single C&C game). Jedi Knight's were cool, but they ain't got anything on Wing Commander 4's. And the FINAL MISSION of the game is a FMV in which Mark Hammil battles Malcolm McDowell with WORDS. How cool is that?

Starlancer is a very decent military-mission-based space sim, but the missions are way too scripted, and there are way too many "shoot the enemy torpedoes" moments. I'd liked to have more pure dogfight moments. The enemies run away too much.

And Tachyon is NOT free-roam. It pretends to be so, with the whole "mercenary pilot" setup, but it's totally mission and plot based. You can't just go out the base without missions and fuck around, there's no trading, no pirating. The game does look nice, and has a lot of Bruce Campbell.

So, my fellow Wing Commander fans, what's your favorite game in the series?

nexuscrawler

X Wing vs Tie Fighter was awesome back in the day

Cherrn

Wing Commander has always managed to elude me. I've never actually seen one of the games in Danish stores (save Prophecy), and tracking them all down on the net is a pain in the ass.

I'm wondering why the fuck they haven't made a proper compilation yet. At least I can't find one.

Silpheed

Oh, and I detect a distinct lack of the Freespace series in the OP, Someone really ought to rectify that obvious mistake.

WildSpoon

Tried that evo-legends demo last night. I dunno, couldn't really lock on to it for some reason, maybe ill try again from scratch tonight or tomorrow, cuz damn I could use a new space sim.

As for WC games, the first game and the last game (WC4) are my fav's, with part 1 getting the edge. Damn good games.

Shadowfire

Stormwatcher wrote: »

So, my fellow Wing Commander fans, what's your favorite game in the series?

If you're just talking about the core series, 4 by far, mostly because of the story. Followed closely by 3.

Otherwise, Privateer was just too awesome for words.

Stormwatcher

Cherrn wrote: »

Wing Commander has always managed to elude me. I've never actually seen one of the games in Danish stores (save Prophecy), and tracking them all down on the net is a pain in the ass.

I'm wondering why the fuck they haven't made a proper compilation yet. At least I can't find one.

They did make a compilation pack with windows support including the 1st 3 games, called Kilrathi Saga. But it's buggier and harder to find and a hell lot more expensive than just getting the DOS versions of all 3 games on Ebay. And DosBox made it redundant too, they actually play better on Dosbox than on Kilrathi Saga.

Here, some ebay hits for Wing Commander CD.

Dashui

What does Tomorrow War play like? Is it free roaming, like X3, where I can go to a station or whatever and take on quests? Or do you just have big solar systems for each map and a mission to complete in each, i.e. mission based?

Braincow

Archonex wrote: »

Going to spoil this post, since it's massive. It's a review of Starshatter.

Speaking from personal experience, I thought Starshatter was a much more entertaining game then Freespace ever was. It also features planetary combat, along with the ability to transition from space to the surface of planets, so long as the ship you're given is capable of atmospheric flight.

For those interested in it, it's a somewhat buggy game, but if you can get over the bugs (Which have probably been ironed out now. I originally bought it about two years ago.) it is fun as hell.

The game starts off in a sort of tutorial campaign that's limited to only one solar system. However

toward's the end the shit hits the fan in a big way as you find your small battlegroup literally surrounded on all sides by an armada of enemy ships. The last time I played the first campaign I ended up going way past my mission parameters with my wingmates, since the reinforcements that warped in to back us up got ambushed at the edge of the solar system.

It was pretty much a one hour dogfight against about eighty fighters and bombers and one cruiser, with only about 20 operational, underarmed fighters and one heavily damaged battleship, two heavily damaged destroyers (Both of which went down over the course of the fight.) and one carrier on our side. Off in the distance you could see massive nuclear sized explosions going off as the battlegroup that was moving to reinforce us got blown to hell. The campaign ended in a "victory", with our battlefleet jumping away just as the enemy armada finished wiping out the battle-fleet and started moving towards us.

For referencing, the original mission I took as a pilot was only supposed to be a short, ten minute patrol around the space of the carrier. I only got involved because I noticed a massive amount of contacts show up at the fringe of the battle-group after we mopped up a wing of fighter-craft, causing me turn back toward's the fleet. I ended up exhausting all of my missiles twenty minutes in. The battle-group that was moving to support us was also supposed to survive, however, the enemy AI outwitted my side's AI. As a result, we were put off-guard and would have lost if I hadn't of stayed out and helped fend the hordes of enemy fighter-bombers off. Ironically, after that mission I was promoted to the captain of a destroyer for my efforts, which was a great way to cap off an absolutely insane defense.

After the first campaign, the gameworld expands. With each campaign, the war expands, until you're literally fighting in an entire galaxy, with dozens of armadas moving around, and tons of battle-groups moving around. I never did unlock the final campaign, which is pretty much a galactic war scenario, as I understand it.



Anyways, part of the fun comes from the fact that you don't have to take over the entire war. The computer can handle the entire thing, and it tends to do a decent job at it. Nevermind the fact that it tends to vary it's strategy immensely depending on the circumstances.

Attacking capital ships is also a massive affair. As an example, a typical assault on a small battle-group is approached in stages if you're wanting to minimize casualties/loss of assets. Fights aren't constant, rather, the "battle" is spread out over ingame days, as wings of bombers launch lightning raids to take out critical ship systems (Like the engines! You sure as hell can't escape if you can't move.) and ships, capital ships position themselves to take advantage of weaknesses (And occasionally duke it out.) and then finally the two sides clash in an epic battle once one side is sure it can take out the enemy safely.


Of course, it doesn't always work out like that. Sometimes another fleet warps in from out of system or a storyline objective comes up, or a raid on a planetary base occurs, or generally, something happens that causes all hell to break loose. That's when the game gets really fun.

That being said, it is definitely a niche game in a niche genre. Setting aside the bugs back when I played it, it's definitely one of the most hardcore space sims i've played recently. The game features three different physic systems, newtonian, arcade, and one other (I forget which one.) and they can radically alter the game. Playing with newtonian physics is not easy by a long-shot. Especially when you've got a frigate literally pumping out a couple thousand rounds of flak in your direction and missiles inbound on your position.

It can also be frustrating at first. When I reached the second campaign I ended up getting royally pissed at the fact that the campaign was ending about half an hour in for what seemed like no reason at all. It was only when I chanced into a raid on civilian assets that I realized I was failing the campaign because the enemy was nuking the objectives when I wasn't looking.

The bugs are a major issue. Just from a quick check on the main forums for the game, it seems like it's largely unsupported by the developer, so there's no guarantee of quality control there I suppose. If I get a chance i'll install my copy of Starshatter and update it and see if it's any better then when I last played it on that front.


I'd also not recommend playing the demo if you want an accurate impression of the games . The demo is the first part of the first campaign, and literally shows you nothing of the games action. It stops just short of the enemy fleet warping in and stirring shit up.

Edit: Star Wars Galaxies did have that feature. They even let you get a Yacht that could serve as a space-based house.

Starshatter is the bee's knees. The dogfights in this game are probably the closest thing you can get to Battlestar Galactica. There's nothing like getting into a dogfight with another wing of enemy fighters, swarming around, barely avoiding colliding with one another while trying to draw a bead with your guns. All the while, there's a hostile FF taking potshots at you from 50 kms out.

The sheer randomness of the game is surprising too. You might take a mission to lead a missile strike against a destroyer for one mission, then go on a mine hunting expedition for next, only to run into that same destroyer, half dead and looking pissed off. Then it kills you.

Too bad I have issues trying to run the game on my laptop.

MegaMek

Man, this Starshatter game sounds pretty sweet. Think I could pick it up these days?

cj iwakura

My favorite is 3. 4 has a great story, but 3 has the benefit of a known enemy that everyone around you wants dead. 4, it's hard to know who your enemy is.

The branching plot elements in 4 are excellent.

(And Sosa)


I've never played the Privateer games.

temperature!

Any recommendations for cheap, good joysticks? I've been wanting to get into freespace 2 for a long while now, but I want the full spaceship experience. I don't want to drop money for a joystick when I'll never use it after freespace.

I'm also gonna build a cockpit out of blankets. DON"T JUDGE ME.

Tekko

Velmeran wrote: »

Star Lancer is my favorite 2nd generation space sim (1st gen woudl be Wing commander 1/2 Xwing/Tiefighter, things that old etc).

Got it in college, two room mates and I played co-op (holy shit, a COOP space sim!) campaign all the way until we got to that FUCKING BULLSHIT STOLEN BOMBER MISSION! In single player, not so bad, since ai can die you keep going. In Co-op, anyone dies, your fucked and have to restart.

Not to mention the retarded AI on the mission, we were literally in our formation, no ability to really manuever due to the special rules of that mission, and out of no where an enemy fight just rams right into my buddy, head on, killing him, making us start the SLOW (takes like 4 minutes just to get to the "start" of the mission in that one) trek all over again.

I've never beaten that game simply due to that one mission.

Starlancer co-op still ranks as some of the best co-op gaming I have ever done. Buddy and I played that mission for like 5 hours before we finally beat it. I have been trying to find a space sim game ever since Starlancer that can recreate the experience.

MayGodHaveMercy

MayGodHaveMercy wrote: »

So... Jumpgate: Evolution looks and sounds pretty awesome. I glanced at the website, etc, but I still have one burning question... How PVP-centric is it supposed to be. I don't want to play Counterstrike In Space (HEADSHOT), but everything else about the game intrigues me, and I do like voluntary PVP from time to time.

Guys, seriously. Inquiring minds!

Orogogus

Silpheed wrote: »

Man, I'm trying to recall an old SSI game where you controlled a space base with it's compliment of figters and pilots after your CO bites it. Your pilots would levelup in typical RPG fashion and you could upgrade your fighters as the game progressed. Does anyone recall this game?

I think the only spaceship game that SSI made was the Renegade Legion title, Battle for Jacob's Star. So that, maybe?

Oh, and I detect a distinct lack of the Freespace series in the OP, Someone really ought to rectify that obvious mistake.

It's right there.

BloodySloth

So, is it at all reasonable to hope that any of these games would operate with a 360 gamepad, or are there just not enough buttons? Buying an expensive peripheral that only works for scant few games is kind of out of the question for me right now.

Delta Assault

BloodySloth wrote: »

So, is it at all reasonable to hope that any of these games would operate with a 360 gamepad, or are there just not enough buttons? Buying an expensive peripheral that only works for scant few games is kind of out of the question for me right now.

You kinda need a lot of keys to play FreeSpace 2. Just use a mouse and keyboard, it's fine.

BloodySloth

Delta Assault wrote: »

BloodySloth wrote: »

So, is it at all reasonable to hope that any of these games would operate with a 360 gamepad, or are there just not enough buttons? Buying an expensive peripheral that only works for scant few games is kind of out of the question for me right now.

You kinda need a lot of keys to play FreeSpace 2. Just use a mouse and keyboard, it's fine.

Yeah, but using a mouse for a flight game feels dirty.

Delta Assault

BloodySloth wrote: »

Delta Assault wrote: »

BloodySloth wrote: »

So, is it at all reasonable to hope that any of these games would operate with a 360 gamepad, or are there just not enough buttons? Buying an expensive peripheral that only works for scant few games is kind of out of the question for me right now.

You kinda need a lot of keys to play FreeSpace 2. Just use a mouse and keyboard, it's fine.

Yeah, but using a mouse for a flight game feels dirty.

If you want, you can also use the arrow keys on the keyboard. Someone I know played like that. *shrug*