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The reason the fight looks awkward is not just because the people were unskilled and that's all. It's because they were unskilled that they used a different type of choreography for the fight: that of two older, less able people, who know each other very well, and so they stuck in a lot of mind games rather than direct attacks.
Where'd you hear that? It could be a valid after-the-fact interpretation, sure, but the fight looks like it does mostly because Prowse sucked, the equipment kept breaking, leading to them pulling their moves, and the fight choreography wasn't really up to snuff. The fight wasn't really supposed to look like that. Like a lot of sequences in "Star Wars," Lucas settled for close enough and moved on. Prowse was probably backing up because he couldn't SEE.
Unless I'm misunderstanding your post and you're saying that interpretation of yours is how you explain away the technical ineptitude after the fact.
The reason the fight looks awkward is not just because the people were unskilled and that's all. It's because they were unskilled that they used a different type of choreography for the fight: that of two older, less able people, who know each other very well, and so they stuck in a lot of mind games rather than direct attacks.
Where'd you hear that? It could be a valid after-the-fact interpretation, sure, but the fight looks like it does mostly because Prowse sucked, the equipment kept breaking, leading to them pulling their moves, and the fight choreography wasn't really up to snuff. The fight wasn't really supposed to look like that. Like a lot of sequences in "Star Wars," Lucas settled for close enough and moved on. Prowse was probably backing up because he couldn't SEE.
Unless I'm misunderstanding your post and you're saying that interpretation of yours is how you explain away the technical ineptitude after the fact.
It honestly doesn't matter. Unskilled or cripple vs old man. What is the feel? The same.
That was my point.
(Just to be clear: yes they are unskilled, yes he couldn't see, yes Alec was an oldy but a goldy etc etc but that ended up with them having to restrict the choreography to moves that would, in the end, be used by a skilled cripple and a skilled old man. Maybe it was an accident, maybe someone knows something about kendo etc, but the point is it worked properly and ended up giving a more authentic feel. By accident? Who cares? That's a completely unnecessary emotional judgment to apply. It still worked and it was still consistent with the characters.)
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I'm guessing we're all nerds with a "kick me" sign taped to our back for discussing the swordfighting mechanics and plot intricacies of a science fiction movie.
Also, I probably never paid attention to it before, but Jar Jar is responsible for Palpatine's capacity to become supreme chancellor and ultimately emperor...meaning he's not only ruining movies but an entire galaxy worth of space (although you could argue Amidala's vote of no confidence in Vallorum gets the ball rolling). Naboo is apparently the center of all that is bad in the Star Wars universe (or just the center of people who easily succumb to political intrigue and plots).
UltimaGecko on
The facehuggers want to play with you in the AvP LP. Facehuggers also want you to check out the TF2 cards here. View the in-progress RE mansion recreation for L4D here.
Last D&D session I played, I jokingly mentioned how cool it would be if Obi-Wan had beaten Vader in the first movie and proceeded on to do everything important himself instead of relying on Luke. Looking back that would have made the OT(now just two movies because Obi-Wan handles things fast) so much better. Best part? No Ewoks.
Geddoe on
0
KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
edited May 2009
Speaking of lightsaber duels with needlessly flashy moves...
Last D&D session I played, I jokingly mentioned how cool it would be if Obi-Wan had beaten Vader in the first movie and proceeded on to do everything important himself instead of relying on Luke. Looking back that would have made the OT(now just two movies because Obi-Wan handles things fast) so much better. Best part? No Ewoks.
Last D&D session I played, I jokingly mentioned how cool it would be if Obi-Wan had beaten Vader in the first movie and proceeded on to do everything important himself instead of relying on Luke. Looking back that would have made the OT(now just two movies because Obi-Wan handles things fast) so much better. Best part? No Ewoks.
Last D&D session I played, I jokingly mentioned how cool it would be if Obi-Wan had beaten Vader in the first movie and proceeded on to do everything important himself instead of relying on Luke. Looking back that would have made the OT(now just two movies because Obi-Wan handles things fast) so much better. Best part? No Ewoks.
don't be hating on the ewoks. ewoks are awesome!
No they are most definatly not.
Your information on these 'ewoks' and its sources seem suspect at best.
I am to believe that Teddy bears toppled a hardened clone army?
mojojoeo on
Chief Wiggum: "Ladies, please. All our founding fathers, astronauts, and World Series heroes have been either drunk or on cocaine."
Last D&D session I played, I jokingly mentioned how cool it would be if Obi-Wan had beaten Vader in the first movie and proceeded on to do everything important himself instead of relying on Luke. Looking back that would have made the OT(now just two movies because Obi-Wan handles things fast) so much better. Best part? No Ewoks.
don't be hating on the ewoks. ewoks are awesome!
No they are most definatly not.
Your information on these 'ewoks' and its sources seem suspect at best.
I am to believe that Teddy bears toppled a hardened clone army?
by the time you get to RotJ, most of the storm troopers were normal conscripts. of course i think they were supposed to be a little more stealthy and hit/run than was implied by ambling teddy bears.... but still awesome. ewoks were a tension breaker for the other serious stuff.
The Obi-Wan vs. Vader fight is extremely interesting to watch, if the viewer has any interest or knowledge in fencing. It's just that it doesn't appear very interesting to the layman in comparison to the new trilogy fights with their flashy twirls and stuff. The original fight has a lot of minute movements, and situations where twirling would get your limbs cut off. It's actually more tense in my opinion, than the new fights.
Granted, the Darth Maul vs. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon fight was very entertaining, but I'd still rate the OT fights more interesting technique-wise.
I agree.
I think the OT sword fights were inspired by Japanese movies - Kurosawa etc. - which were undoubtedly one of the various movie touchstones Lucas based the original trilogy on. Films where duels were often decided in a single, violent movement.
By comparison, the fighting in the 'new' trilogy was probably more inspired by the rising popularity of Hong Kong martial arts movies at the time (Crouching Tiger, eg) which focuses more on theatrical, balletic fighting.
Regardless of the quality of the techniques, the concept behind the OT duels appeals to me more. It's more dramatic by being less dramatic, if that makes any sense.
Ewoks were supposed to be wookies. There is nothing about them that is redeemable or was in any way planned from the outset.
They are, quite literally, Satan personified.
In his most deadly cute and cuddly form, I might add.
ewoks were supposed to be wookies early on... but its not like they got to filming and just said 'oh well we don't have enough money. We'll just hire all of these midgets and children and dress them up like bears!' they did have it planned in advance if not as advanced as the rest of the movie.
it works better that way anyhow, wookies are annoying and would have ruined the supposed 'remote' location of the second deathstar.
What everyone forgets is that early in the battle, all of the Ewoks attacks fail hardcore. Dropping rocks onto an AT-ST from their little glider? That didn't do shit. Same with the catapault they used. Many Ewoks died. They were trying, but they were clearly outclassed in every aspect. Even the initial ambush, their arrows vs. the plasti-steel armor of the stormtroopers was a mismatch in every regard. The only ones they took down were some of the armorless officers.
It was until Chewy took over that AT-ST that the battle turned around. Using the Imperials own tech against them.
Now substitute all those sequences with Wookiees and the whole thing seems silly. Wookiees are supposedly mighty warriors. That battle would have been over in about .5 seconds. Ewoks are peaceful tribes of hunter/gatherers. They're not designed to be fighters.
So there, I like Ewoks. They represent the little guy toppling the big guy, which is what the entire OT is fucking about.
What everyone forgets is that early in the battle, all of the Ewoks attacks fail hardcore. Dropping rocks onto an AT-ST from their little glider? That didn't do shit. Same with the catapault they used. Many Ewoks died. They were trying, but they were clearly outclasses in every aspect. Even the initial ambush, their arrows vs. the plasti-steel armor of the stormtroopers was a mismatch in every regard. The only ones they took down were some of the armorless officers.
It was until Chewy took over that AT-ST that the battle turned around. Using the Imperials own tech against them.
Now substitute all those sequences with Wookiees and the whole thing seems silly. Wookiees are supposedly mighty warriors. That battle would have been over in about .5 seconds. Ewoks are peaceful tribes of hunter/gatherers. They're not designed to be fighters.
So there, I like Ewoks. They represent the little guy toppling the big guy, which is what the entire OT is fucking about.
That's not how it played out at all. The weak attacks were just to agro the Imperials so that they'd give chase and be lead into more devastating traps like the swinging logs of death and the rolling logs of death and the various other logs of death.
it works better that way anyhow, wookies are annoying and would have ruined the supposed 'remote' location of the second deathstar.
There is exactly one wookie in the OT. I don't see how that would ruin the remote location especially when there is not much about Chewbacca that suggests his people are very advanced or well known throughout the area. This has remained pretty consistent even in the EU and PT with with the tree houses and primitive-looking weapons they use.
What everyone forgets is that early in the battle, all of the Ewoks attacks fail hardcore. Dropping rocks onto an AT-ST from their little glider? That didn't do shit. Same with the catapault they used. Many Ewoks died. They were trying, but they were clearly outclasses in every aspect. Even the initial ambush, their arrows vs. the plasti-steel armor of the stormtroopers was a mismatch in every regard. The only ones they took down were some of the armorless officers.
It was until Chewy took over that AT-ST that the battle turned around. Using the Imperials own tech against them.
Now substitute all those sequences with Wookiees and the whole thing seems silly. Wookiees are supposedly mighty warriors. That battle would have been over in about .5 seconds. Ewoks are peaceful tribes of hunter/gatherers. They're not designed to be fighters.
So there, I like Ewoks. They represent the little guy toppling the big guy, which is what the entire OT is fucking about.
That's not how it played out at all. The weak attacks were just to agro the Imperials so that they'd give chase and be lead into more devastating traps like the swinging logs of death and the rolling logs of death and the various other logs of death.
Just to agro the Imperials?
Are you fucking serious?
You can't be serious.
Watch the movie again. The whole beginning of that battle is about Ewok failure and death and the Imperials out gunning and out classing them. It's not until Chewy turns the battle around that the Rebel forces begin to succeed.
it works better that way anyhow, wookies are annoying and would have ruined the supposed 'remote' location of the second deathstar.
There is exactly one wookie in the OT. I don't see how that would ruin the remote location especially when there is not much about Chewbacca that suggests his people are very advanced or well known throughout the area. This has remained pretty consistent even in the EU and PT with with the tree houses and primitive-looking weapons they use.
so chewie is just special and the only one who can figure out how to fly and fix a spacecraft, all of the other wookies are primatives without spacetravel or any technical knowledge.....
or are they all really smart but can't notice the giant moon being built above their planet for the past 10 years or don't care to tell anyone about it?
so chewie is just special and the only one who can figure out how to fly and fix a spacecraft, all of the other wookies are primatives without spacetravel or any technical knowledge.....
so chewie is just special and the only one who can figure out how to fly and fix a spacecraft, all of the other wookies are primatives without spacetravel or any technical knowledge.....
Or he was a slave.
so the slavers no longer go there? no other wookie was ever freed and tried to go home?
as soon as you have a race of intelligent non primative beings (one of them being a main character in the story), the idea that the planet can be remote gets silly.
maybe lucas had some marvelous idea about how it would all work out but i think the NT pretty much proves that wrong. he got lucky with ewoks.
What everyone forgets is that early in the battle, all of the Ewoks attacks fail hardcore. Dropping rocks onto an AT-ST from their little glider? That didn't do shit. Same with the catapault they used. Many Ewoks died. They were trying, but they were clearly outclasses in every aspect. Even the initial ambush, their arrows vs. the plasti-steel armor of the stormtroopers was a mismatch in every regard. The only ones they took down were some of the armorless officers.
It was until Chewy took over that AT-ST that the battle turned around. Using the Imperials own tech against them.
Now substitute all those sequences with Wookiees and the whole thing seems silly. Wookiees are supposedly mighty warriors. That battle would have been over in about .5 seconds. Ewoks are peaceful tribes of hunter/gatherers. They're not designed to be fighters.
So there, I like Ewoks. They represent the little guy toppling the big guy, which is what the entire OT is fucking about.
That's not how it played out at all. The weak attacks were just to agro the Imperials so that they'd give chase and be lead into more devastating traps like the swinging logs of death and the rolling logs of death and the various other logs of death.
Just to agro the Imperials?
Are you fucking serious?
You can't be serious.
Watch the movie again. The whole beginning of that battle is about Ewok failure and death and the Imperials out gunning and out classing them. It's not until Chewy turns the battle around that the Rebel forces begin to succeed.
I only remember one single Ewok dying (dude that gets shot/exploded and then his friend cries over him). That wasn't early in the battle either.
KalTorak on
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
so the slavers no longer go there? no other wookie was ever freed and tried to go home?
I believe some Ewoks were also taken as slaves before the Empire got there.
Sex slaves, presumably. Because what else could tiny things like that do? Manual labor? Butlers? Yeah, I don't think so. A gang of galactic furries landed on Endor and took 'em some sex slaves.
All this talk about the Word of God take on balancing the Force makes me want to reread "Traitor" and then punch Lucas in the mouth for fucking up a potentially awesome angle of setting development.
re: traitor: The author is Matthew Woodring Stover. Read his Star Wars books. Then read his other books. You will not be disappointed.
On a random side note, I really wish Yoda hadn't fought on-screen in Attack of the Clones. While it was an awesome, punch the air moment in that movie, in hindsight it would've been so much better if the first time he fought on screen was in Episode 3, where he loses. Because god damn, that was a great fight considering it was an old man in a thick latex max vs cgi.
Posts
Where'd you hear that? It could be a valid after-the-fact interpretation, sure, but the fight looks like it does mostly because Prowse sucked, the equipment kept breaking, leading to them pulling their moves, and the fight choreography wasn't really up to snuff. The fight wasn't really supposed to look like that. Like a lot of sequences in "Star Wars," Lucas settled for close enough and moved on. Prowse was probably backing up because he couldn't SEE.
Unless I'm misunderstanding your post and you're saying that interpretation of yours is how you explain away the technical ineptitude after the fact.
Geek: Remixed - A Decade's worth of ruined pop culture memories
Xbox Live - Fatboy PDX
It honestly doesn't matter. Unskilled or cripple vs old man. What is the feel? The same.
That was my point.
(Just to be clear: yes they are unskilled, yes he couldn't see, yes Alec was an oldy but a goldy etc etc but that ended up with them having to restrict the choreography to moves that would, in the end, be used by a skilled cripple and a skilled old man. Maybe it was an accident, maybe someone knows something about kendo etc, but the point is it worked properly and ended up giving a more authentic feel. By accident? Who cares? That's a completely unnecessary emotional judgment to apply. It still worked and it was still consistent with the characters.)
Is it about to get deleted? Or am I asking to be kicked?
Also, I probably never paid attention to it before, but Jar Jar is responsible for Palpatine's capacity to become supreme chancellor and ultimately emperor...meaning he's not only ruining movies but an entire galaxy worth of space (although you could argue Amidala's vote of no confidence in Vallorum gets the ball rolling). Naboo is apparently the center of all that is bad in the Star Wars universe (or just the center of people who easily succumb to political intrigue and plots).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMXpokrfblM
don't be hating on the ewoks. ewoks are awesome!
For dinner!
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
No they are most definatly not.
Your information on these 'ewoks' and its sources seem suspect at best.
I am to believe that Teddy bears toppled a hardened clone army?
by the time you get to RotJ, most of the storm troopers were normal conscripts. of course i think they were supposed to be a little more stealthy and hit/run than was implied by ambling teddy bears.... but still awesome. ewoks were a tension breaker for the other serious stuff.
They are, quite literally, Satan personified.
In his most deadly cute and cuddly form, I might add.
I agree.
I think the OT sword fights were inspired by Japanese movies - Kurosawa etc. - which were undoubtedly one of the various movie touchstones Lucas based the original trilogy on. Films where duels were often decided in a single, violent movement.
By comparison, the fighting in the 'new' trilogy was probably more inspired by the rising popularity of Hong Kong martial arts movies at the time (Crouching Tiger, eg) which focuses more on theatrical, balletic fighting.
Regardless of the quality of the techniques, the concept behind the OT duels appeals to me more. It's more dramatic by being less dramatic, if that makes any sense.
ewoks were supposed to be wookies early on... but its not like they got to filming and just said 'oh well we don't have enough money. We'll just hire all of these midgets and children and dress them up like bears!' they did have it planned in advance if not as advanced as the rest of the movie.
it works better that way anyhow, wookies are annoying and would have ruined the supposed 'remote' location of the second deathstar.
Good god man, you come from bizzaro-world.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
What everyone forgets is that early in the battle, all of the Ewoks attacks fail hardcore. Dropping rocks onto an AT-ST from their little glider? That didn't do shit. Same with the catapault they used. Many Ewoks died. They were trying, but they were clearly outclassed in every aspect. Even the initial ambush, their arrows vs. the plasti-steel armor of the stormtroopers was a mismatch in every regard. The only ones they took down were some of the armorless officers.
It was until Chewy took over that AT-ST that the battle turned around. Using the Imperials own tech against them.
Now substitute all those sequences with Wookiees and the whole thing seems silly. Wookiees are supposedly mighty warriors. That battle would have been over in about .5 seconds. Ewoks are peaceful tribes of hunter/gatherers. They're not designed to be fighters.
So there, I like Ewoks. They represent the little guy toppling the big guy, which is what the entire OT is fucking about.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
oh yeah, only humanoids can be jedi!
specieist
That's not how it played out at all. The weak attacks were just to agro the Imperials so that they'd give chase and be lead into more devastating traps like the swinging logs of death and the rolling logs of death and the various other logs of death.
honestly, there are so many ways to take out a wobbly, 2 legged, poorly designed AT-ST that it just gets silly.
As shown by the Death Star, there aren't many good Imperial engineers.
Just to agro the Imperials?
Are you fucking serious?
You can't be serious.
Watch the movie again. The whole beginning of that battle is about Ewok failure and death and the Imperials out gunning and out classing them. It's not until Chewy turns the battle around that the Rebel forces begin to succeed.
so chewie is just special and the only one who can figure out how to fly and fix a spacecraft, all of the other wookies are primatives without spacetravel or any technical knowledge.....
or are they all really smart but can't notice the giant moon being built above their planet for the past 10 years or don't care to tell anyone about it?
so the slavers no longer go there? no other wookie was ever freed and tried to go home?
as soon as you have a race of intelligent non primative beings (one of them being a main character in the story), the idea that the planet can be remote gets silly.
maybe lucas had some marvelous idea about how it would all work out but i think the NT pretty much proves that wrong. he got lucky with ewoks.
I only remember one single Ewok dying (dude that gets shot/exploded and then his friend cries over him). That wasn't early in the battle either.
Sex slaves, presumably. Because what else could tiny things like that do? Manual labor? Butlers? Yeah, I don't think so. A gang of galactic furries landed on Endor and took 'em some sex slaves.
which is why someone should have roped in all of the star wars book writers before things got out of hand.
of course lucas is the best canon killer of them all so i guess thats mute.
Geek: Remixed - A Decade's worth of ruined pop culture memories
Xbox Live - Fatboy PDX
if i spent all of my childhood paying attention in english and spelling, i wouldn't even be able to have this debate.
re: traitor: The author is Matthew Woodring Stover. Read his Star Wars books. Then read his other books. You will not be disappointed.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Jossed :P
XBL/PSN/Steam: APZonerunner
Sounds like a win-win.
And the Imperial officer uniforms could have been considered somewhat spiffy if it hadn't been for... well... you know... Godwin.