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Entering college: in search of electronics
SuMa.Lustre
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Weeelllllp I'm about to start college as a compsci major and I'm looking for replacements for my 5 year old desktop. I'm planning to get a combination of a netbook and a gaming desktop, mainly because I like their price, battery life, and portability, and I'd like to get a desktop because I love gaming. I can build, maintain, and repair computers, and I used to keep up with the latest hardware. I haven't kept up recently, however, and I have a few questions:
1) Which netbook should I get? I've got my eye on the Eee PC 1000HE, but should I hold out for anything new on the horizon? Should I just wait, period, and see if the price drops? The economy did drop everything about 20% right now...
2) What are the hot new mid-range desktop parts? I can salvage my old desktop for everything but a motherboard, CPU, GPU, and RAM. I'm hoping I can create a new mid-range computer out of those parts for less than 600 or so, or maybe even less than 500 if possible.
3) I mentioned compsci major because I was wondering: are there any computers/operating systems out there that benefit that major, and why? I hear Linux is good for programmers, but I've never actually found out WHY.
Thank you for taking the time to read this, and I hope you guys could answer some of my questions.
1) Which netbook should I get? I've got my eye on the Eee PC 1000HE, but should I hold out for anything new on the horizon? Should I just wait, period, and see if the price drops? The economy did drop everything about 20% right now...
2) What are the hot new mid-range desktop parts? I can salvage my old desktop for everything but a motherboard, CPU, GPU, and RAM. I'm hoping I can create a new mid-range computer out of those parts for less than 600 or so, or maybe even less than 500 if possible.
3) I mentioned compsci major because I was wondering: are there any computers/operating systems out there that benefit that major, and why? I hear Linux is good for programmers, but I've never actually found out WHY.
Thank you for taking the time to read this, and I hope you guys could answer some of my questions.
SuMa.Lustre on
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2: Ati 4770 seems to be the newest budget card to beat
3: At least from my experience, it is nice to have a *nix (Linux, Unix, basically any OS these days that's not Windows) operating system. Nearly all of my lab computers run Unix, and although windows has several programs (puTTY, cygwin), that provide very good compatibility with Unix, it is nice to force yourself to gain experience by making it your main operating system. Pretty much all *nix operating systems include all sorts of rudimentary programming tools installed by default (vim, emacs, gcc, etc), and starting out with these basic tools, in my opinion, gives one a much better appreciation and knowledge of how computers work. Likewise, Linux can give you the opportunity to tinker around and learn a bit about computers, although these days, most distros are user-friendly enough to shield the user from all these details, if so desired.
There was a recent deluge of netbooks from every manufacturer, I wouldn't worry about something ridiculously awesome coming out between now and school starting. The 1000HE is pretty awesome, what more would you really want? What could you wait for?
You said gaming laptop in the OP.
Downside is it's pretty pricey.
Whoops, I meant desktop. Thanks for pointing that out!
@Smug_Duckling: I refuse to get Apple because I despise their smugness for a more expensive, generally less powerful product(please don't turn this into a mac vs pc thread).
@Serious_Scrub: Those sure seem like good reasons to pick up Unix/Linux!
Anyone else has hardware suggestions? What's the hot new budget chip on the block? I hear i7 is really popular right now, but the chip price is 280 dollars and the motherboards are 200 dollars!
...in the form of a tablet.
Great advise.
You know, you might be right. I want to play TF2, Starcraft 2, and Diablo 3, as well as probably a few other games. Right now I'm running the AMD 3800x2 with an ATI 2600XT, and even core duo would be a huge upgrade, and the games I'm planning to play do not need OMGHYPARCOMPUTER power.
And yes, price is a big factor in wanting a netbook, and Apple will probably release something costing like 800-1000 dollars. It'll look pretty, but...no thanks.
Whoa hold up dude
There is no reason to believe it would cost more than 400 bucks. With less moving parts than notebooks, tablets aren't that difficult to build, they would basically be like big iPhones. And the hardware inside is what you would expect for a netbook, which doesn't break the bank either. The only reason for a big price would be if they used SSD drives to make them super thin.
I'd recommend waiting anyway. What if it turns out to be the best shit ever or something and it's cheap and then you're kicking yourself later? You're not going to start college in a summer semester are you? Just wait.
The point of all that...are you dead sure you want to limit yourself to a 10" screen? The battery life and portability are nice, but really, is that 10" laptop's footprint going to make your life THAT much easier than a 13"-15" laptop when you figure you're going to be carrying around books anyway? I'm not starting a debate here and will not defend these questions, but make sure you've thought about them.
As for your desktop, the i7 is the exact opposite of "mid-range", especially when you figure in its DDR3 RAM requirements. You should be looking at Core 2 Duo + DDR2 + ATI 4770. If you want to cut corners, swap the Core 2 for an AMD chip as pointed out above.
PSN: TheScrublet
Though if he is going to be carrying books, he might as well get a normal size laptop. Netbooks are for people who are obsessed with getting the smallest possible load, meaning they probably taking nothing to class except the netbook itself.
I haven't seen the OP make your first statement. I got through my first three years of compsci on my desktop fine. However, that fourth year when I started student teaching and taking a graduate-research class, the laptop I'd bought the summer prior became essential. Edit: also be careful with the whole "netbook to take notes with" stuff...there ARE still professors out there who disallow that sort of thing. Some do it because they are distracted by keyboard-tapping. Others do it because they think the students are full of shit and are sitting on AIM/facebook/etc...often a correct assumption. Either way, I'd hate to spend money on a note-taking machine and wind up with half my professors not allowing it.
PSN: TheScrublet
Meh.
The more I read the op, the more I think he should just get a Macbook, no desktop, and be done with it.
Chances are, you probably won't be doing much PC gaming at college as you think you will, especially if you are living in dorms surrounded by people. Stick to console games or something.
Macbooks are the middle road between Windows and Linux. I used a Macs while persuing my compsci degree and they were incredible the whole way through. And plus, Snow Leopard is on the horizon (which means the middle road is about to become a super highway).
Actually I like your idea of forgoing the desktop. @ OP: do you really need to upgrade that badly? I have your same CPU, and an Nvidia 7900 GT, and I can play HL2, UT2K4, Quake 4, WOW, even Oblivion (with some questionable framerates here and there) on my 50" TV at 1920x1080. With graphics from mid-high to high in all cases. I plan on building when the new Intel 32nms come out but that's because I want to do Crysis and that quality at full graphics + 1080p, which it doesn't sound like you want to do. It may be better for you to shove the extra money into a better portable comp unless you really are hellbent on the netbook.
PSN: TheScrublet
That's a plan I'd do but he expressed a $400 netbook plus $600 desktop budget. The 13" macbook is $1000 and the display is $900 (so after student discount, $1710). Way overbudget
PSN: TheScrublet
When you carry heavy books, its nice to limit the other weight you carry.
And for what its worth, I got a netbook my last semester of college and having never used my laptop on campus before it made me go "fuck, I wish I had this four years ago."
GT: Tanky the Tank
Black: 1377 6749 7425
So how do you know you won't like it?
Right now I am borrowing my mom's 13-inch laptop and it is already rather annoying to lug around.
I am somewhat worried that I won't be able to game on the desktop either. But it's really hard to justify buying a mid-power laptop that will probably be sitting on a desk the whole time because I can't carry it around...
You should probably just wait until you are in college to buy anything.
Also remember that aluminum Macbooks might be dropping in price soon as the old white plastic Macbooks are going to be phased out forever. $1300 no more. Will you pull the trigger then?
I had a 17 inch laptop, and while it wasn't great for notes, it was awesome in the lab. And as a comp-sci major you spend a lot of time in the lab, alone and with partners, working. Being able to work on your own computer and not one of the lab PC's is a big bonus. A netbook has too many disadvantages for that.
"Read twice, post once. It's almost like 'measure twice, cut once' only with reading." - MetaverseNomad
GT: Tanky the Tank
Black: 1377 6749 7425
I'm not talking about holing up, I just want to option to sometimes go to my room and fire up tuftoo and go abloo abloo on some mans.
I don't think $600 dollars is too low power when you consider that budget is only for CPU, mobo, RAM, and video card. I'm probably even willing to go up to $700.
@Cronus: Hmm, that's an interesting perspective. What are some of the bonuses to working on your own computer and not a lab computer? And how much RAM would I need? The 1000HE apparently has a really simple upgrade to 2GB of RAM.
2 GB is good, I'd go for 4, but it sounds like it may be out of your price range. 4 will also make the laptop relevant longer, though you could always do the upgrade yourself later, which would be much cheaper and let you wait till you need it.
I don't know how much you program now, but I often have a lot of windows open. Running apps, 1-3 copies of visual studio, pandora, firefox(memory hog). Just a lot of stuff, though perhaps you work with less apps simultaneously.
There are a lot of bonuses to having a good coding laptop in college.
Once I got one and didn't have to work on a lab machine anymore it helped immensely. You can also take it down to coffee shops and the park. Which you can do with a netbook or a small notebook, but we come back to the problem of comfort and it may not have the specs to do what you need.
"Read twice, post once. It's almost like 'measure twice, cut once' only with reading." - MetaverseNomad
It took some time to adjust to the small form factor, but it isn't impossible. I don't see why hooking up to a monitor or not having your work saved to your netbook would be a problem, but the other comments regarding compsci specifics may hold more water.
Wouldn't half that list be solvable with a USB drive? Not trying to be cheeky, just wondering. I haven't gotten into very intensive programs yet, so I'm a bit lacking in knowledge.
Your reasons sound good, though. Out of curiosity, what laptop do you recommend, or if no specific one, what specs would you look for?
You can pretty much ignore Obs. I built my last computer for $800- the only things I didn't get were monitor, mouse, keyboard and OS, since I already had those. And it runs anything I throw at it at max. $600 is plenty.
"Read twice, post once. It's almost like 'measure twice, cut once' only with reading." - MetaverseNomad
I've gotta say that, while I love my macbook pro (keyboard rocks in comparison to the ones in the labs), it is a bit big and heavy to carry around (barely fits in my bag when it's in it's sleeve actually... quite a pain when you need to get packed up in a hurry). I do often sit at uni and wonder how life would be if I had a nice little eee or something.
Anyway, I can see the screen space problem being fairly manageable with virtual desktops and perhaps a tiling window manager.
Typing a 20 page paper is not anything like programming in multiple windows (and even environments) at once. Nobody in this thread should be giving any advice to the CompSci OP about screen real estate unless they are either CompSci themselves or any of the technical engineer fields. And generally hooking up a monitor on the go won't be an option. Many labs these days have all their connections physically locked down for theft reasons, so it's not like you could just swap out a lab monitor to your netbook or something.
@OP in response to USB drive comment, you would think so. But I can't count the times I figured I'd just pack something on to a USB drive and for whatever reason it wouldn't work on the system at crunch time. Sometimes this was my fault, and sometimes the system just sucked. For homework, you just gotta test the hell out of it and make sure it works on the systems the grader will be using. But for presentations, it's nice to completely avoid embarassment by being ready with your own comp.
Also I'm both with and against Obs. I definitely see his point...there were plenty of periods in college where I definitely let my PC collect some dust because I was playing Halo 2 or other games with friends on school LAN, or not gaming at all because of HW/social life. There were also periods of time where I definitely did game and it was nice having my desktop. But I think in the end I side with him...I'd push you to spend more money on a better laptop that you'll definitely get school use out of, and put off the desktop (if you can't afford both) for a bit while you enjoy the school life.
PSN: TheScrublet
This is sort of an aside, but as a CS major, you'll want to have some familiarity with UNIX because when you take Operating Systems and have to learn threading and IPC, more than likely, you'll end up writing the code on a UNIX system. Once you learn the UNIX way of doing things, you'll wonder how you ever managed with Windows
Personally, I'd recommend waiting on getting a netbook or laptop for taking to class. First year CS is usually heavy in math courses and taking notes for those on a pc is very difficult, unless you are a latex wiz. You may want to do one or two weeks of classes taking notes the old fashioned way, then decide whether or not you want or need a netbook for note taking. But if you go this route make sure to check out computer stores around the university in case you do decide to get a netbook/laptop.
Admittedly, a netbook/laptop is nice to have for group CS projects since their portability makes it much easier to get together and code, but during my CS degree I did all my coding on my desktop with no issues at all. As mentioned, Cygwin is a good tool for coding unix in windows, though there is always the chance of small issues between cygwin and a real unix machine.
Remember that for courses like Operating Systems where you are compiling a shit-ton of code, a netbook or laptop (more the netbooks) may choke compared to a desktop.
Gaming: I did a lot of PC gaming my freshman year. After that, not so much. I'll still play console games in the lobby when I need to blow off some steam occasionally, but things get much too busy to game with any regularity during the semester. Side note, if you want to do any gaming on Linux, get an Nvidia card.
I once saw a post on Slashdot which said you should select your computer and operating system for college solely on it's inability to run games. You can generally game on anything these days, but it's not awful advice. Even dual booting and having all your games in another operating system helps with productivity.
Laptop: I don't even have a desktop. Being able to carry all your work around to a random place on campus to collaborate with other people on a project is very, very nice. As is the ability to get out of the dorms when general insanity happens. At least once a semester, your dorm room will be one of the worst places on campus to get homework done. Having a laptop means being able to work wherever you want.
Speaking as a programmer, you will want as much screen space as you can get. No, virtual desktops are not a perfect substitute. This may be a strike against the netbook. Get a second screen, even a cheap used thing. Plug it into whatever machine you do most of your development on. Otherwise, you'll slowly go insane.
Generally, the stuff you program for classes aren't going to need a lot of processing power; a netbook will be fine for those. Just make sure you get something with a fullsized keyboard and home and end keys! A programming environment without easy access to the brackets and home and end keys is pain.
Taking notes: Don't use a laptop. First, a lot of professors have issues with them. I was once singled out of a class of laptop users and chastised, even though I was just running OneNote. Second, they're not as convenient as a plain old dead-tree notebook. They're heavier, and if you need to note a funky symbol it's easier with pencil and paper. Third, and this depends on what your learning mode is, but I remember things better when I write them down on paper; I've tried it both ways. Fourth, you can always type up your notes later. In fact, you should be doing this anyway in conjunction with outlining. It really helps a lot in the way of memorization.
It is not a requirement and I don't know why anyone would say you'd be at a loss for not using it. Except of course that it would be one less thing in the universe that you know.
"Read twice, post once. It's almost like 'measure twice, cut once' only with reading." - MetaverseNomad