I'm reading the Negima manga, and while I'm enjoying it, man the translations of it annoy me. Tons of kuns and sans and arus and basically every line has some formal Japanese crap on the end. I hate when English translations don't get rid of that stuff.
So I was browsing Hulu and came across FMA: Brotherhood. Wiki wasn't any help for me so could someone here fill me in on the difference between this and the last series?
Ah... Question: Are there any anime movies/shows out there that have zombies in them?
Soul Eater has one but I can't think of anything else that does unless you count that Resident Evil CG movie as anime.
I enjoyed the manga High School of the Dead, though it's not done.
Also High School of the Dead has some real problems with finding a consistent tone, some times it's a good zombie story about a group of high school students, then it'll swerve off into wacky fanservice and giggly harem manga shit for a few pages only to veer off to strawman the left wing as dirty, weak, stupid, ugly and distrustful and that only the glorious gallant fascists can possibly save us from the zombie menace.
When the manga started waxing lyrical about how wonderful the ultra-right wingers are and expounding the virtues of fascism, that was when i pulled the pin.
psycojester on
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YamiNoSenshiA point called ZIn the complex planeRegistered Userregular
So I was browsing Hulu and came across FMA: Brotherhood. Wiki wasn't any help for me so could someone here fill me in on the difference between this and the last series?
They're doing it again, only sticking to the manga much more closely.
So I was browsing Hulu and came across FMA: Brotherhood. Wiki wasn't any help for me so could someone here fill me in on the difference between this and the last series?
It follows the manga more strictly, and has an opening episode which causes all the reveals to reorganize. In fact, most of the story seems a little shaken around because of the subtle differences. The only complaint I've seen (I had to stop watching because of finals) is that Nina is only one episode, so there's much less of a suicide-inducing impact.
I'm reading the Negima manga, and while I'm enjoying it, man the translations of it annoy me. Tons of kuns and sans and arus and basically every line has some formal Japanese crap on the end. I hate when English translations don't get rid of that stuff.
The aru and Da Gazou(?) helps to distinguish a character, at least for me. This makes it a little easier to keep track of the 40+ characters, a task much harder without the verbal cues.
So I was browsing Hulu and came across FMA: Brotherhood. Wiki wasn't any help for me so could someone here fill me in on the difference between this and the last series?
It follows the manga more strictly, and has an opening episode which causes all the reveals to reorganize. In fact, most of the story seems a little shaken around because of the subtle differences. The only complaint I've seen (I had to stop watching because of finals) is that Nina is only one episode, so there's much less of a suicide-inducing impact.
I'm reading the Negima manga, and while I'm enjoying it, man the translations of it annoy me. Tons of kuns and sans and arus and basically every line has some formal Japanese crap on the end. I hate when English translations don't get rid of that stuff.
The aru and Da Gazou(?) helps to distinguish a character, at least for me. This makes it a little easier to keep track of the 40+ characters, a task much harder without the verbal cues.
I see what you mean, but in the end I find it more annoying than useful.
Also, I'm really starting to dig Evangeline. Even though she's a damn loli.
I'm reading the Negima manga, and while I'm enjoying it, man the translations of it annoy me. Tons of kuns and sans and arus and basically every line has some formal Japanese crap on the end. I hate when English translations don't get rid of that stuff.
The aru and Da Gazou(?) helps to distinguish a character, at least for me. This makes it a little easier to keep track of the 40+ characters, a task much harder without the verbal cues.
I see what you mean, but in the end I find it more annoying than useful.
Also, I'm really starting to dig Evangeline. Even though she's a damn loli.
Honorifics are important. I can't stand translations that get rid of them.
EDIT: At least in settings where it matters. I don't really care that Hellsing doesn't have them, for example, because that's not the point of Hellsing. Hell, the original Japanese might not even have them for all I know. Also, Hellsing actually gives people their proper crazy accents in english so it would be rather strange.
HamHamJ on
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
I like translations to actually make an effort to read like english dialogue, throwing those in just makes it sound stupid and awkward to me.
Honorifics are like the entire basis for Japanese social structure. It's basically impossible to understand the relationship between two characters without knowing what honorifics they use in relation to each other.
And there is no real way to translate them, because no matching concept even exists in English.
So leaving them as such is the best solution.
HamHamJ on
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
I don't think they NEED to have a proper translation. It's not like you can't write dialogue that sounds polite without ending the line with a chan or a kun.
And impossible to understand the relationships? The same types of relationships exist in english fiction and I can understand those fine without honorifics. It's not like I need them to understand that a character is friends with another one, or is of a higher class, or something.
Honorifics have no proper translation in English, though. We don't have 3 different levels of politeness that we use depending on who we talk to.
But yeah, it's just personal preference in the end. (For me, I hate it when they leave it in)
In cases like these, just have the speakers talk in different levels of politeness, ranging from 'How are you, Mr. _____? Did you enjoy your noun?' to 'Hey, fuck off'.
Honorifics have no proper translation in English, though. We don't have 3 different levels of politeness that we use depending on who we talk to.
But yeah, it's just personal preference in the end. (For me, I hate it when they leave it in)
In cases like these, just have the speakers talk in different levels of politeness, ranging from 'How are you, Mr. _____? Did you enjoy your noun?' to 'Hey, fuck off'.
This isn't a very good solution because English simply does not have the necessary syntactical complexity to fully convey the original intent.
HamHamJ on
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
Honorifics have no proper translation in English, though. We don't have 3 different levels of politeness that we use depending on who we talk to.
But yeah, it's just personal preference in the end. (For me, I hate it when they leave it in)
In cases like these, just have the speakers talk in different levels of politeness, ranging from 'How are you, Mr. _____? Did you enjoy your noun?' to 'Hey, fuck off'.
This isn't a very good solution because English simply does not have the necessary syntactical complexity to fully convey the original intent.
Honorifics have no proper translation in English, though. We don't have 3 different levels of politeness that we use depending on who we talk to.
But yeah, it's just personal preference in the end. (For me, I hate it when they leave it in)
In cases like these, just have the speakers talk in different levels of politeness, ranging from 'How are you, Mr. _____? Did you enjoy your noun?' to 'Hey, fuck off'.
This isn't a very good solution because English simply does not have the necessary syntactical complexity to fully convey the original intent.
Yeah, hence I say leave it out. It's foreign to Western people, and does nothing more than detract from the flow of the story.
In other news, I'm almost done with xxxHolic 14 and goddammit Clamp release this stuff faster you whores.
Honorifics have no proper translation in English, though. We don't have 3 different levels of politeness that we use depending on who we talk to.
But yeah, it's just personal preference in the end. (For me, I hate it when they leave it in)
In cases like these, just have the speakers talk in different levels of politeness, ranging from 'How are you, Mr. _____? Did you enjoy your noun?' to 'Hey, fuck off'.
This isn't a very good solution because English simply does not have the necessary syntactical complexity to fully convey the original intent.
Screw the original intent, then. Proper English flow is way more important than getting the meaning exactly right, especially when such a tiny difference would be lost on nearly all viewers.
In any case, LockedOn calls bullshit here, and I agree.
Honorifics have no proper translation in English, though. We don't have 3 different levels of politeness that we use depending on who we talk to.
But yeah, it's just personal preference in the end. (For me, I hate it when they leave it in)
In cases like these, just have the speakers talk in different levels of politeness, ranging from 'How are you, Mr. _____? Did you enjoy your noun?' to 'Hey, fuck off'.
This isn't a very good solution because English simply does not have the necessary syntactical complexity to fully convey the original intent.
Yeah, hence I say leave it out. It's foreign to Western people, and does nothing more than detract from the flow of the story.
What. Taking it out completely messes with the flow of the story. For example, what happens when you have dialogue that directly references what honorific someone is using? Or when an important change in character relation is expressed entirely by a change of honorific?
Unless you want to resort to hackneyed solutions like having people using nick-names all the time or are fine with losing a significant portion of the story, you have to use honorifics.
HamHamJ on
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
I guess I can see it being important in a subtle work, but honestly, I have yet to read a manga that I would classify as subtle. Most of the time character traits and relationships are hammered into my head over and over, and there's tons of times where other characters basically comment and spell out the relationship right there in the dialogue("x and y are just like sisters!""x sure is shy around y, maybe he's in love with her!" etc.).
I have yet to read or watch something that I ever felt was reserved enough that I would need honorifics to understand the character relationships.
Ham, if you could point a specific example to me, that might help.
What. Taking it out completely messes with the flow of the story. For example, what happens when you have dialogue that directly references what honorific someone is using? Or when an important change in character relation is expressed entirely by a change of honorific?
Unless you want to resort to hackneyed solutions like having people using nick-names all the time or are fine with losing a significant portion of the story, you have to use honorifics.
To be completely honest, if someone is THAT into the subtle aspects of manga, I'd think they'd study Japanese and read it that way instead. Like LockedOnTarget said, most manga doesn't really have that kind of depth to it, so keeping it in is just clumsy.
And judging by the picture at the side, it can actually turn into the giant fist. I don't even know how that works.
It seems pretty obvious that the jetpack thing turns into a fist. You can see the finger parts and stuff.
It's the whole thing, not just the jetpack. I can sort of see it, but the torso must squash/contort in some way to fit inside the hand.
EDIT: on the subject of honorifics, it really doesn't impact the work at all. The only time it might be a problem is in comedy series with lots of word play or something with very poetic dialogue. Scanlators I can see having difficulty with this, but a professional translator is expected to work around the issue.
Honorifics have no proper translation in English, though. We don't have 3 different levels of politeness that we use depending on who we talk to.
But yeah, it's just personal preference in the end. (For me, I hate it when they leave it in)
In cases like these, just have the speakers talk in different levels of politeness, ranging from 'How are you, Mr. _____? Did you enjoy your noun?' to 'Hey, fuck off'.
This isn't a very good solution because English simply does not have the necessary syntactical complexity to fully convey the original intent.
Yeah, hence I say leave it out. It's foreign to Western people, and does nothing more than detract from the flow of the story.
What. Taking it out completely messes with the flow of the story. For example, what happens when you have dialogue that directly references what honorific someone is using? Or when an important change in character relation is expressed entirely by a change of honorific?
In such a case, the translator should use whatever is most compatible with the current context and flow of their own translation. In other words, they should come up with the best Wolseyism they can.
What. Taking it out completely messes with the flow of the story. For example, what happens when you have dialogue that directly references what honorific someone is using? Or when an important change in character relation is expressed entirely by a change of honorific?
Unless you want to resort to hackneyed solutions like having people using nick-names all the time or are fine with losing a significant portion of the story, you have to use honorifics.
To be completely honest, if someone is THAT into the subtle aspects of manga, I'd think they'd study Japanese and read it that way instead. Like LockedOnTarget said, most manga doesn't really have that kind of depth to it, so keeping it in is just clumsy.
I also can't imagine the bulk of anime doesn't convey this relationship in any other fashion. I know I certainly haven't seen any myself. But I haven't seen/read anything that wasn't conveyed through tone and body language.
Hmm, I dunno. I watched Fate/Stay night in the English dub before I ever studied Japanese, and they managed to portray Saber's ever-polite demeanor pretty well in English. No contractions, a lot of "I would like you to", and "If I must"'s, and generally, they just made her talking mannerisms feel more polite in English. Sure they didn't use honorifics, or they didn't use the stem+masu form for verbs, or they didn't use the "desu" state of being indicator, but that's just it, they're (the English voice actors) not Japanese.
But they did a good job in translating Saber's teineigo into English. So it's not truly impossible.
Hmm, I dunno. I watched Fate/Stay night in the English dub before I ever studied Japanese, and they managed to portray Saber's ever-polite demeanor pretty well in English. No contractions, a lot of "I would like you to", and "If I must"'s, and generally, they just made her talking mannerisms feel more polite in English. Sure they didn't use honorifics, or they didn't use the stem+masu form for verbs, or they didn't use the "desu" state of being indicator, but that's just it, they're not Japanese.
But they did a good job in translating Saber's teineigo into English. So it's not truly impossible.
Exactly. Politeness in English is about tone and word choice, so translators will take that into account when translating for polite and impolite speech.
But will the teams subbing it follow in Dattebayo's footsteps and do the right thing?
Edit: Do I have to break out The Rise And Fall Of Anime Fansubs again?
Please don't
We don't need to go through that crap again
As for OP, I'm going to say....no for most of the groups, though I bet the groups that are behind will drop it. Except K-F who are still trucking despite being almost 150 episodes behind.
First of all, there is a difference between bothering to read the little insert in the beginning of the book that explains honorifics, and learning to read Japanese to the point where you could actually read untranslated manga.
Second, it depends on genre. Honorifics are a lot less important in shounen then shoujo, on average.
Like Fruits Basket. Good luck being able to track all the different relationships in that without honorifics.
Honorifics are fairly important in Negima. For example, whether a character calls Negi Negi-sensei, Negi-kun, Negi-bozu or just Negi says a lot about their mindset and relationship.
And it's not just a matter of politeness level. Kaede uses pretty formal language but still uses Negi-bozu.
HamHamJ on
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
But will the teams subbing it follow in Dattebayo's footsteps and do the right thing?
Edit: Do I have to break out The Rise And Fall Of Anime Fansubs again?
Some groups still do Naruto, actually. Apparently a week is too long for them.
With it airing just an hour afterwards, there's not even a point to fansubbers, because Funimation will not only likely be doing it better, but they'll be faster too. Unless people are so anal that they MUST HAVE the high resolution copies for themselves, I expect most, if not all, to die off. Except for the movies.
So, watched FMA this week. Nothing new, but nice job compressing the two episodes into one without losing anything. Winry's new voice will take an ep or two to get used to, but it's not bad. Armstrong continues to be hilarious.
Also, I like how they did the little teaser thing after the credits, but before the preview.
Also, I don't see how using honorifics is any different than using a priori, a posteriori, and gestalt. English is by nature a mongrel language. Get used to it.
HamHamJ on
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
First of all, there is a difference between bothering to read the little insert in the beginning of the book that explains honorifics, and learning to read Japanese to the point where you could actually read untranslated manga.
Second, it depends on genre. Honorifics are a lot less important in shounen then shoujo, on average.
Like Fruits Basket. Good luck being able to track all the different relationships in that without honorifics.
Honorifics are fairly important in Negima. For example, whether a character calls Negi Negi-sensei, Negi-kun, Negi-bozu or just Negi says a lot about their mindset and relationship.
And it's not just a matter of politeness level. Kaede uses pretty formal language but still uses Negi-bozu.
That said, that's in a way acceptable, because Negima is set in an ostensibly Japanese school. The problem is when people try to keep honorifics in cultures where doing so makes no sense beyond "well, that's how it was in the original!"
Also, I don't see how using honorifics is any different than using a priori, a posteriori, and gestalt. English is by nature a mongrel language. Get used to it.
Except that the words you used are common loanwords. Japanese honorifics aren't. In addition, as people have pointed out, politeness in English isn't expressed directly in verbiage, but more subtly in inflection and tone of the words used.
Posts
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
Also High School of the Dead has some real problems with finding a consistent tone, some times it's a good zombie story about a group of high school students, then it'll swerve off into wacky fanservice and giggly harem manga shit for a few pages only to veer off to strawman the left wing as dirty, weak, stupid, ugly and distrustful and that only the glorious gallant fascists can possibly save us from the zombie menace.
When the manga started waxing lyrical about how wonderful the ultra-right wingers are and expounding the virtues of fascism, that was when i pulled the pin.
They're doing it again, only sticking to the manga much more closely.
It follows the manga more strictly, and has an opening episode which causes all the reveals to reorganize. In fact, most of the story seems a little shaken around because of the subtle differences. The only complaint I've seen (I had to stop watching because of finals) is that Nina is only one episode, so there's much less of a suicide-inducing impact.
The aru and Da Gazou(?) helps to distinguish a character, at least for me. This makes it a little easier to keep track of the 40+ characters, a task much harder without the verbal cues.
Wait, it's on Hulu as well?
Is the Funimation site still running them?
I see what you mean, but in the end I find it more annoying than useful.
Also, I'm really starting to dig Evangeline. Even though she's a damn loli.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
Honorifics are important. I can't stand translations that get rid of them.
EDIT: At least in settings where it matters. I don't really care that Hellsing doesn't have them, for example, because that's not the point of Hellsing. Hell, the original Japanese might not even have them for all I know. Also, Hellsing actually gives people their proper crazy accents in english so it would be rather strange.
I like translations to actually make an effort to read like english dialogue, throwing those in just makes it sound stupid and awkward to me.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
But yeah, it's just personal preference in the end. (For me, I hate it when they leave it in)
Honorifics are like the entire basis for Japanese social structure. It's basically impossible to understand the relationship between two characters without knowing what honorifics they use in relation to each other.
And there is no real way to translate them, because no matching concept even exists in English.
So leaving them as such is the best solution.
And impossible to understand the relationships? The same types of relationships exist in english fiction and I can understand those fine without honorifics. It's not like I need them to understand that a character is friends with another one, or is of a higher class, or something.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
In cases like these, just have the speakers talk in different levels of politeness, ranging from 'How are you, Mr. _____? Did you enjoy your noun?' to 'Hey, fuck off'.
This isn't a very good solution because English simply does not have the necessary syntactical complexity to fully convey the original intent.
I would disagree strongly with that.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
Yeah, hence I say leave it out. It's foreign to Western people, and does nothing more than detract from the flow of the story.
In other news, I'm almost done with xxxHolic 14 and goddammit Clamp release this stuff faster you whores.
Screw the original intent, then. Proper English flow is way more important than getting the meaning exactly right, especially when such a tiny difference would be lost on nearly all viewers.
In any case, LockedOn calls bullshit here, and I agree.
And judging by the picture at the side, it can actually turn into the giant fist. I don't even know how that works.
What. Taking it out completely messes with the flow of the story. For example, what happens when you have dialogue that directly references what honorific someone is using? Or when an important change in character relation is expressed entirely by a change of honorific?
Unless you want to resort to hackneyed solutions like having people using nick-names all the time or are fine with losing a significant portion of the story, you have to use honorifics.
I have yet to read or watch something that I ever felt was reserved enough that I would need honorifics to understand the character relationships.
Ham, if you could point a specific example to me, that might help.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
It seems pretty obvious that the jetpack thing turns into a fist. You can see the finger parts and stuff.
To be completely honest, if someone is THAT into the subtle aspects of manga, I'd think they'd study Japanese and read it that way instead. Like LockedOnTarget said, most manga doesn't really have that kind of depth to it, so keeping it in is just clumsy.
It's the whole thing, not just the jetpack. I can sort of see it, but the torso must squash/contort in some way to fit inside the hand.
EDIT: on the subject of honorifics, it really doesn't impact the work at all. The only time it might be a problem is in comedy series with lots of word play or something with very poetic dialogue. Scanlators I can see having difficulty with this, but a professional translator is expected to work around the issue.
In such a case, the translator should use whatever is most compatible with the current context and flow of their own translation. In other words, they should come up with the best Wolseyism they can.
But they did a good job in translating Saber's teineigo into English. So it's not truly impossible.
Exactly. Politeness in English is about tone and word choice, so translators will take that into account when translating for polite and impolite speech.
Edit: Do I have to break out The Rise And Fall Of Anime Fansubs again?
Please don't
We don't need to go through that crap again
As for OP, I'm going to say....no for most of the groups, though I bet the groups that are behind will drop it. Except K-F who are still trucking despite being almost 150 episodes behind.
If it wasn't for them I wouldn't of been able to start the series at all.
Second, it depends on genre. Honorifics are a lot less important in shounen then shoujo, on average.
Like Fruits Basket. Good luck being able to track all the different relationships in that without honorifics.
Honorifics are fairly important in Negima. For example, whether a character calls Negi Negi-sensei, Negi-kun, Negi-bozu or just Negi says a lot about their mindset and relationship.
And it's not just a matter of politeness level. Kaede uses pretty formal language but still uses Negi-bozu.
Some groups still do Naruto, actually. Apparently a week is too long for them.
With it airing just an hour afterwards, there's not even a point to fansubbers, because Funimation will not only likely be doing it better, but they'll be faster too. Unless people are so anal that they MUST HAVE the high resolution copies for themselves, I expect most, if not all, to die off. Except for the movies.
So, watched FMA this week. Nothing new, but nice job compressing the two episodes into one without losing anything. Winry's new voice will take an ep or two to get used to, but it's not bad. Armstrong continues to be hilarious.
Also, I like how they did the little teaser thing after the credits, but before the preview.
That said, that's in a way acceptable, because Negima is set in an ostensibly Japanese school. The problem is when people try to keep honorifics in cultures where doing so makes no sense beyond "well, that's how it was in the original!"
Except that the words you used are common loanwords. Japanese honorifics aren't. In addition, as people have pointed out, politeness in English isn't expressed directly in verbiage, but more subtly in inflection and tone of the words used.