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Friendship after a relationship? [Update/New Question pg2]
flapjack
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I actually typed this up a few days ago, I've just been debating whether to post it or not, and adding bits and pieces as new things happen. But, I'd love to hear what people have to say. It's kind of similar to a recent thread, but since these situations are pretty specific, I figured I'd go ahead and post this. It's rather long, as I have a penchant to be pretty verbose. So, my apologies for that. Without further ado:
Well, I'm not really quite sure where to begin with all this. As an intro I'll note, this is a girl thread. I will also note from the get-go that we are no longer together, as of about a month ago, and the purpose of this thread is not advice for how to "win her back" or anything along those lines. That being said, I suppose some background is in order.
I've known this girl for a little over 6 years now. We met in high school, had a relatively typical 9 month high school relationship, broke up, both saw other people, and ended up back together a few years later. After that happened, we were together for about two and a half years, living together for what I'd say is a majority of that time.
The last couple months were rough. In late January she told me that she felt she wasn't a good girlfriend for me, we came up with a good list of things for us both to work on, and we did so. It was later I found out that during that period she cheated on me (which was itself another thread), and going on the advice of people there, I decided to try and trust her again and make things work. At first that seemed okay, but in retrospect that situation basically marked the beginning of the end. Our interactions grew more distant, she started a new job, and eventually one night she came home from work and told me that she was feeling the same way she was in late January, just this time there wasn't anything for us to work on (she admitted that she felt I wasn't doing anything wrong). She basically just felt as if she didn't want to be in a relationship with me anymore. She said she had a hang-up, something she couldn't get over in her mind, and that the relationship wasn't working for her. So, we split.
After the obligatory intial awkwardness (including what has amounted to her starting a relationship with someone new), we eventually sat down and talked through a couple things. She told me that she felt that I am her best friend, that I understand her inherently on a level that no one else does, and that even after high school when we broke up, she never stopped loving me. Basically, that she cares for me a lot and wants to make a friendship with me work. I responded by saying that I don't know if a friendship between us WOULD work. My reason for saying this is that there is still a degree of romantic feelings and weirdness between us, and to be perfectly honest, I don't believe that will ever go away (especially in light of her saying that she never stopped caring for me). She agreed at the time, but has since said she doesn't really feel romantically towards me. Our interactions have also been very strange over the past few weeks. I've seen her naked a few times, we've kissed a few times; there's been a lot of conflicting occurrences along those lines, though I am happy to say that I've never "made a move" or come on to her in any sort of way. This is something she has told me she very much appreciates, as she told me she "wants this to work" re: this new guy in her life, even though she's not sure if it will, and that sleeping with me would preclude that from happening, so if I were to be coming on to her, or even joking about it, she feels that she wouldn't be able to speak or hang out with me. Moving on, I told her that I was willing to try giving the friendship a shot, and as such we hung out for a while over the past couple of days. It was for the most part relatively normal stuff, though there was a degree of awkwardness there at some points. There were some more specific, less-normal points, such as her saying "I know this is inappropriate but I need you to take a look at this" and showing me her allergic reaction while she was in the shower, cuddling with me/putting my head in her lap, a quick kiss, etc.
We've actually hung out a few times since then as well, and one thing I ended up confronting her about was the lack of consistency. She has no problems making plans with other people in advance - but with me, it's always "play it by ear." Likewise, most every time we've gotten together recently has been rushed, or she's gotten a call and made other plans while I was there and without asking me first, halfway through the evening. When I asked her about this, she said that it's because she, much like me, doesn't really know how she feels towards me yet and any given day she doesn't know how she's going to feel about seeing me. She also talked to me today and told me, now that finals are over, that we've been seeing too much of each other and she needs her space for a while, though she does in fact still want me as a friend and can't picture her life without me in it.
As a side note, I should mention that my friends have been giving me some advice during this period as well. One of the big questions I got is, why would I want to be friends with her? Some of my friends feel that she has pretty well taken advantage of me and my emotions during the course of our relationship. I asked her a question and she lied to my face at one point a couple weeks ago, which really infuriated me (I can't stand lying). Some of my friends feel that I should just be done with someone who has lied to and cheated on me. I'm obviously not, however. Admittedly, I am a pretty relaxed kind of guy and have a tendency to let people I care about walk over me. I did end up mentioning that I felt she had been taking advantage of our relationship over the past couple months, when she told me that what she missed from me she felt wasn't the appropriate or right things to be missing from a relationship, such as me cooking, or cleaning, or taking care of the dog while she was gone. She also admitted that she has done some shitty, hurtful things to me.
Basically, I haven't been able to answer the question of why I want to maintain a friendship with her. I don't think I actually want a relationship with her (at this point, what I miss most is mainly the sudden missing companionship that I lost when I moved out). However, I can't deny that I still have feelings for her, be they emotional, sexual, or otherwise. My main questions are all regarding the friendship. Is it something that's worthwhile to pursue? She's the only one whom I feel comfortable enough to call at 2am if there's some sort of mental or emotional issue going on (actual example from recently), and as she mentioned, we're connected on a pretty deep emotional level. Is it silly to feel like I want to have a friendship with her? Am I just setting myself up for hurt down the road, say if this new relationship that she seems to be getting into works out for her? Or is this the kind of thing that can actually work out? It's a kind of overwhelming situation, and I was mainly just wanting to see if anyone had any advice or input.
And finally, some random assorted information I didn't really know where to put anywhere else. Yes, I feel like I'm still attracted to her. No, despite not necessarily wanting a relationship, I don't believe that I'm completely over her, nor do I know if I ever will feel that way. The last time we spoke on the phone she mentioned she's very much looking forward to seeing this new guy because she hasn't seen him 'in like a million years,' which I suppose is code word for 5 days or something along those lines. I won't lie, hearing those things makes me feel very strange. On the other hand, I absolutely do not want her to lie to me again, and I don't believe she and I are capable of having one of those superficial friendships.
I told her while we were together a few days ago that it seemed as if she were done with our relationship, something which she disagreed with. Her feeling is, you don't just drop someone you were with for so long and not have any emotion. It is clear however that she does not want a relationship with me right now, telling me that she feels like us being friends is the right place for our relationship, and seems to have adopted a "whatever happens happens" and "play it by ear" attitude towards our friendship, telling me her possible new relationship is worlds different from the relationship she had with me. I also have a penchant to overanalyze things and as such am probably making this situation way more complicated than it has to be; in the words of a friend of mine, "You're not thinking enough, and you're thinking too much." Their advice has been basically to stop putting myself in this loop, to cut off contact, make a decision about what I want to do (they are obviously rooting for not having anything to do with her), and move on. So far, not getting in touch with her has been difficult, to be honest. She texts me with relative frequency, we talk on the phone occasionally. I'll admit that it's both of us who initiate phone calls, not just her. Perhaps I'm just having a hard time turning my back on someone whom I've spent so much time and have so many memories with (admittedly, I still love and care for her). Perhaps I'm just confused and lonely. I'm also not really interested in random hook-ups or anything of the like; I've never been that kind of person. A friend of mine made the note that I've basically been in relationships of some sort since I was 17, with maybe a few months break tops in between. He feels that perhaps that's coloring my view of the situation as well. And as a final note, I'm 23, she's 21, with both of us having birthdays coming up pretty soon.
I think that covers just about everything, or at least everything I can think of. Any advice would be more than welcome.
Well, I'm not really quite sure where to begin with all this. As an intro I'll note, this is a girl thread. I will also note from the get-go that we are no longer together, as of about a month ago, and the purpose of this thread is not advice for how to "win her back" or anything along those lines. That being said, I suppose some background is in order.
I've known this girl for a little over 6 years now. We met in high school, had a relatively typical 9 month high school relationship, broke up, both saw other people, and ended up back together a few years later. After that happened, we were together for about two and a half years, living together for what I'd say is a majority of that time.
The last couple months were rough. In late January she told me that she felt she wasn't a good girlfriend for me, we came up with a good list of things for us both to work on, and we did so. It was later I found out that during that period she cheated on me (which was itself another thread), and going on the advice of people there, I decided to try and trust her again and make things work. At first that seemed okay, but in retrospect that situation basically marked the beginning of the end. Our interactions grew more distant, she started a new job, and eventually one night she came home from work and told me that she was feeling the same way she was in late January, just this time there wasn't anything for us to work on (she admitted that she felt I wasn't doing anything wrong). She basically just felt as if she didn't want to be in a relationship with me anymore. She said she had a hang-up, something she couldn't get over in her mind, and that the relationship wasn't working for her. So, we split.
After the obligatory intial awkwardness (including what has amounted to her starting a relationship with someone new), we eventually sat down and talked through a couple things. She told me that she felt that I am her best friend, that I understand her inherently on a level that no one else does, and that even after high school when we broke up, she never stopped loving me. Basically, that she cares for me a lot and wants to make a friendship with me work. I responded by saying that I don't know if a friendship between us WOULD work. My reason for saying this is that there is still a degree of romantic feelings and weirdness between us, and to be perfectly honest, I don't believe that will ever go away (especially in light of her saying that she never stopped caring for me). She agreed at the time, but has since said she doesn't really feel romantically towards me. Our interactions have also been very strange over the past few weeks. I've seen her naked a few times, we've kissed a few times; there's been a lot of conflicting occurrences along those lines, though I am happy to say that I've never "made a move" or come on to her in any sort of way. This is something she has told me she very much appreciates, as she told me she "wants this to work" re: this new guy in her life, even though she's not sure if it will, and that sleeping with me would preclude that from happening, so if I were to be coming on to her, or even joking about it, she feels that she wouldn't be able to speak or hang out with me. Moving on, I told her that I was willing to try giving the friendship a shot, and as such we hung out for a while over the past couple of days. It was for the most part relatively normal stuff, though there was a degree of awkwardness there at some points. There were some more specific, less-normal points, such as her saying "I know this is inappropriate but I need you to take a look at this" and showing me her allergic reaction while she was in the shower, cuddling with me/putting my head in her lap, a quick kiss, etc.
We've actually hung out a few times since then as well, and one thing I ended up confronting her about was the lack of consistency. She has no problems making plans with other people in advance - but with me, it's always "play it by ear." Likewise, most every time we've gotten together recently has been rushed, or she's gotten a call and made other plans while I was there and without asking me first, halfway through the evening. When I asked her about this, she said that it's because she, much like me, doesn't really know how she feels towards me yet and any given day she doesn't know how she's going to feel about seeing me. She also talked to me today and told me, now that finals are over, that we've been seeing too much of each other and she needs her space for a while, though she does in fact still want me as a friend and can't picture her life without me in it.
As a side note, I should mention that my friends have been giving me some advice during this period as well. One of the big questions I got is, why would I want to be friends with her? Some of my friends feel that she has pretty well taken advantage of me and my emotions during the course of our relationship. I asked her a question and she lied to my face at one point a couple weeks ago, which really infuriated me (I can't stand lying). Some of my friends feel that I should just be done with someone who has lied to and cheated on me. I'm obviously not, however. Admittedly, I am a pretty relaxed kind of guy and have a tendency to let people I care about walk over me. I did end up mentioning that I felt she had been taking advantage of our relationship over the past couple months, when she told me that what she missed from me she felt wasn't the appropriate or right things to be missing from a relationship, such as me cooking, or cleaning, or taking care of the dog while she was gone. She also admitted that she has done some shitty, hurtful things to me.
Basically, I haven't been able to answer the question of why I want to maintain a friendship with her. I don't think I actually want a relationship with her (at this point, what I miss most is mainly the sudden missing companionship that I lost when I moved out). However, I can't deny that I still have feelings for her, be they emotional, sexual, or otherwise. My main questions are all regarding the friendship. Is it something that's worthwhile to pursue? She's the only one whom I feel comfortable enough to call at 2am if there's some sort of mental or emotional issue going on (actual example from recently), and as she mentioned, we're connected on a pretty deep emotional level. Is it silly to feel like I want to have a friendship with her? Am I just setting myself up for hurt down the road, say if this new relationship that she seems to be getting into works out for her? Or is this the kind of thing that can actually work out? It's a kind of overwhelming situation, and I was mainly just wanting to see if anyone had any advice or input.
And finally, some random assorted information I didn't really know where to put anywhere else. Yes, I feel like I'm still attracted to her. No, despite not necessarily wanting a relationship, I don't believe that I'm completely over her, nor do I know if I ever will feel that way. The last time we spoke on the phone she mentioned she's very much looking forward to seeing this new guy because she hasn't seen him 'in like a million years,' which I suppose is code word for 5 days or something along those lines. I won't lie, hearing those things makes me feel very strange. On the other hand, I absolutely do not want her to lie to me again, and I don't believe she and I are capable of having one of those superficial friendships.
I told her while we were together a few days ago that it seemed as if she were done with our relationship, something which she disagreed with. Her feeling is, you don't just drop someone you were with for so long and not have any emotion. It is clear however that she does not want a relationship with me right now, telling me that she feels like us being friends is the right place for our relationship, and seems to have adopted a "whatever happens happens" and "play it by ear" attitude towards our friendship, telling me her possible new relationship is worlds different from the relationship she had with me. I also have a penchant to overanalyze things and as such am probably making this situation way more complicated than it has to be; in the words of a friend of mine, "You're not thinking enough, and you're thinking too much." Their advice has been basically to stop putting myself in this loop, to cut off contact, make a decision about what I want to do (they are obviously rooting for not having anything to do with her), and move on. So far, not getting in touch with her has been difficult, to be honest. She texts me with relative frequency, we talk on the phone occasionally. I'll admit that it's both of us who initiate phone calls, not just her. Perhaps I'm just having a hard time turning my back on someone whom I've spent so much time and have so many memories with (admittedly, I still love and care for her). Perhaps I'm just confused and lonely. I'm also not really interested in random hook-ups or anything of the like; I've never been that kind of person. A friend of mine made the note that I've basically been in relationships of some sort since I was 17, with maybe a few months break tops in between. He feels that perhaps that's coloring my view of the situation as well. And as a final note, I'm 23, she's 21, with both of us having birthdays coming up pretty soon.
I think that covers just about everything, or at least everything I can think of. Any advice would be more than welcome.
flapjack on
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Make a note on a calendar and call her again in 3-4 months and you will both have a better idea of how you stand on the possibility of having a friendship without it being weird.
Telling you that she's really looking forward to seeing her new guy is something that anyone with a modicum of tact wouldn't do.
Making out with you and then saying you can't have sex because she wants to have sex with someone else.
It almost sounds to me like she is toying with you. I don't think it is going to be good for you.
https://medium.com/@alascii
it is terrible
if you like being around her more than you respect yourself, then by all means continue
Whenever she's feeling down, or want's a pick me up, she takes you out of the fridge, takes a bite out of your self respect, and the crams you back into the darkness.
She's probably pushed boundaries all through your relationship and so far has found none. That is why she plays it by ear with you. And she thinks this is ok because you act like it is.
Do yourself a favor and tell her to take a hike. Don't schedule some date that you guys can be friends. If that is meant to be, you'll run into each other in the future.
that would pretty much be the end of me and that person on any terms
it's complete betrayal and it's frankly unforgivable
People say this all the time, lets be friends after dating. To be friends after dating means you no longer have any of that relationship bullshit in your head at all. It doesn't sound like you are completely over her.
Friends don't makeout with each other either, or even if they did, they don't start making out with someone yet ban the other person from initiating it as Skullman said you're her dick in a glass jar to be used only when she's lonely.
I'm going to have to agree with your friends, why do you want to be friends with her? She's the only person you can call in two in the morning because she's been the only person in the past three years where you have, plenty of other people can do this, I mean she was your girlfriend, she was supposed to do that shit, now that she isn't it's time to find someone else.
Satans..... hints.....
Things I suggest and have worked for me:
Never let her talk about her current boy, ever.
Never initiate contact.
Never stop what you are doing to have something to do with her.
Never rely on her.
Always appear happy, busy and successful.
If you are going to get on the drink, remove all of her contact details from your phone!
What does she get? A jumping off point. What do you get? Kind of screwed.
What bothers me the most i think is the way she pulls the 'i don't want to get close again' card for things that should really be part of the friendship. Being reliable, for example, is something friends do for each other, not just boyfriends and girlfriends. Not only does it cripple your shot at moving on, she's not really giving you a decent friendship to make up for it.
Not my call, but check the balance here and see if you're really getting anything out of it that you couldn't get from simply cutting your losses (not in anger, just dialing back to aquaintences) and making a new friend.
That's not true
I think is completely and totally true
I've honestly reached that point with 3 long-term ex's, and basically it requires reaching a point where you don't have any desire at all to get back together with them... I don't know about best friends, but we have no problem getting dinner and hanging out without issues
However, I think the OP is clearly somewhere in the middle of those two statements, so I agree - spending time with someone that you still have some feelings for is just a recipe to make yourself feel like crap, and possibly do things you'll just regret.
If she didn't want to be your girlfriend, she's probably not your regular friend now for all the right reason. If you are finding the experience to be awkward and uncomfortable, that's because it is, and you are rightfully unhappy with the arrangement.
The anxiety you are going to face from being stuck around someone you are attracted to while she gabs away about other men is not worth the half-assed relationship that will come of it. Plus, when this future guy finds out about you, expect to be left in the rain.
we also talk about other random shit and clown upon each other
This is clearly untrue. Thing is you need your feelings and expectations for each other to be equitable (and to survive the healing process until it is so.) If one party is trying to get back together then it's not going to work, but if you're both willing to try to move on then yes, you can successfully end up with a solid friendship. I've even successfully gone 3 year relationship -> friendship -> friends w/ benefits -> friendship and we're still great friends after almost 10 years.
To flapjack -
First question is whether you do want a purely platonic friendship with her given her cheating history
and how she is jerking you around right now. Given your history, comfort levels with each other, and the fact that you made your post I'm going with yes, but really think about what she will bring to a friendship.
Second, the healing process is going to suck and she is so not helping at the moment. The main thing you need to do is set strict boundaries and then adhere to them. If you don't think you or she can then you're probably going to have to go cold turkey for 2-3 months with no contact with her.
1) No sexual contact. Hugging is okay, but no kissing, no cuddling, no seeing her naked. Maybe at some point in the future you can do those things, but not while you're still hurting and definitely not while she's starting a relationship with somebody else.
2) No talking about her current boy. Personally I exclude myself from this rule as I'm both not at all jealous and very, very curious, but in general it's only going to lead to either her lying (which will bug you) or hurt feelings, especially since the obvious comparison is between the lovey-dovey opening parts of a new relationship with the sum total of your previous full relationship.
3) No making other plans while you are there, and plan when you see her in advance. No using you as a fallback when she can't find anything better. You can make plans to just hangout and watch TV or whatever, doesn't have to be anything big, but then no breaking it because she got invited out.
4) If anything is making you uncomfortable, bring it up and deal with it, don't let it fester. Things will naturally be awkward for a bit, but if anything specific is bugging you, nip it in the bud.
Finally, make sure you have plenty of other things to do with other friends that don't involve her. Sports, video games, TV, whatever - keep yourself busy and don't leave time to dwell on her.
And when she says she doesn't see how people can just drop a relationship without emotion, I hope she knows this is very emotional. She really is using you, and sucking your emotions up.
I'd say get her out of your life as soon as you can, and if you see her in a few years or something, take it from there, but do not actively seek out anything from her.
she wants to kiss you so she'll do that
but she doesn't want to have sex, so none of that
this is a bad scene man
kissin ain't nothin
If nothing else...she is a user, a cheater, and a liar...why would you want this person in your life?
Apt analogy is apt.
And seriously, you're not even getting the no-strings-attached sportfucking here. You're not even getting used in a good way. :P
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
Note the key word there -- became. They did not go from "relationship" to "friendship," but rather went from their relationship to not speaking to each other for a couple years, and then when they bumped into each other they became friends anew.
That's the only time I've seen it work with anyone. You need to completely move on before you can just be friends with an ex.
Cut her off, now and forever.
I absolutely agree with what you said, but this one stuck out to me. The reason for that being that on three separate occasions this past week, we've gotten together, only to basically have things be canceled on me. Once for another friend (albeit one she hadn't seen in three years), once for her going into work (she needs the money), and the third time, yesterday actually, we had made plans, she knew I was on the way, but went to the mall "really quick, so I can get back before you're there." I waited for about an hour before she finally showed up, at which point she almost immediately told me she needed more space (she has since text messaged me). Another note, planning in advance doesn't really seem to work because she wants to "play things by ear."
The problem here is that I don't honestly know how realistic that is. When we broke up after high school, we basically went through a couple years without contact. As soon as we struck up a conversation again, even though she was in a relationship, it immediately had romantic undertones (from both of us). She later told me that she had never stopped loving me through the years, even when we weren't in contact. I don't know how relevant that is, but it's worth a mention.
All that being said, I really appreciate everyone taking the time to read and respond. There seems to be a general tone of agreement among everyone, and it's been helpful to get the range of responses that've come forth.
Personally, I'd advise you to not even pursue a friendship with her in the future. People who exist at the level of self-interest that it sounds like she exists in are seldom people who will change their behaviors. At best, they will obviously not have changed... at the most diabolical, they will find new techniques for fooling people into thinking that they've changed.
Yeah, this what I mean about setting boundaries and sticking to them. She doesn't get to set all the parameters, and you need to tell her that if this is going to work out, you can't just "play things by ear." If she's unwilling to meet you halfway on something as innocuous as planning a day in advance, then there is no way you guys will be able to have any balance on the bigger issues.
It means that she wasn't ready to do it. When I say "You" i mean both parties. I mean, optimistically, it simply means that she hadn't moved on from you and wanted to date you -- aka, she didn't want to be friends again anyway, she wanted to be with you in a relationship.
The point is that you can't be friends with someone you want to be in a relationship with. Especially if they're an ex.
I think another couple of years without contact would do very nicely here.
Also, see again the comfort food analogy.
See it, read it, heed it.
I wouldn't let a girlfriend pull this shit on me, let alone an ex-girlfriend i'm on the fence about trying to be friends with. Let her go man, you don't deserve the way she's treating you. Being friends with her (especially with the stuff you've mentioned) is just going to keep you in that limbo between relationships way longer than you need to be. She knows she can jerk you around because you obviously still have feelings for her, she throws you that "I love you, but i'm not IN love with you" bone because she knows it will keep you coming back. cut her off, and move on.
Seriously?
My parents are in their late 50's and I know several of both of their exes from college because they became good friends later on. (They've been married for 26 years at this point) Are you parents weird about talking about exes? I know that some people dont like discussing that sort of thing with their kids or in front of their spouse.
If there is any chance at friendship you guys need to not talk for a while.
And if she is using you intentionally (she may not be) the line about wanting to be friends later will get her off of your back a lot more easily than just saying that you don't want to be friends with her.
Before I said you need to set boundaries, but now its apparent that she's just throwing hints at you like mad. She sugar coated the breakup and is full of shit. Or possibly she's so incredibly confused she has no idea what she wants.
Why doesn't this piss you off? She's wasting your time. Not only that, but sitting at... her house (just guessing) for an hour has got be about the lamest thing you did all last week.
To be honest, it did and does rather piss me off. I feel incredibly jerked around this past while, and yes, sitting at her place was about the lamest thing I did last week. I was getting ready to leave when she finally showed up. The weird, somewhat confusing pattern continued when she texted me that night though, with "Good night. I think that things will be okay."
I've been trying to present the situations as they are, without really letting my own personal feelings influence how they come across, to try and make things as objective as possible for people. I think that it's pretty probable that she's confused, as she's so much as told me she doesn't know how she's going to feel about me on any given day. However, she's not confused so much as to be starting a relationship with someone new. I suppose that says something in and of itself.
You've actually been doing a very good job at objectively describing all the situations this girl is putting you in, if its any consolation.
Her telling you that "she doesn't know how she's going to feel about you on any given day" could just as easily be an additional technique for leading you on as it can be genuine confusion.
When you add it all up, however, the malicious intent seems very real. If she's not doing this out of a genuine desire to use you, then she's an extremely good user on a subconscious level: and if you want the honest truth, that's more dangerous in some ways than a person who realizes that they're a user. Don't give this girl the benefit of the doubt anymore.
It's pretty obvious, to myself and probably to everyone, that I at least have some residual romantic feelings for her. It's hard for me to say whether those feelings mean I actively want to be with her or not, but the point remains that by merit of those feelings even existing, that "friendship" idea seems highly unlikely. Especially given the attitude and treatment she's given to our friendship over the last month.
Whether purposefully or not, she knows that I still have those feelings, and takes advantage of that. Some people have mentioned that it might be possible for a friendship to exist after those feelings subside. However, I don't know if they ever will to a level where a relationship like that is really possible. I can't really plan on what may or may not happen in the future, so I'm trying to disregard my line of thought there.
She expects me to be there for her, with a smile on my face, whenever she needs me. And as soon as I'm not smiling, as soon as I want to talk about something serious, she "needs more space." I've also noticed that space seems to last only so long until she is having a rough time or needs to talk to me again.
I don't know, it might be that if she gets in touch with me at some point, I'll hear out what she has to say, if she's done any thinking. However, I'm done with giving the benefit of the doubt. She'd need to put forth the same amount of effort into this whole friendship thing that I would be putting forth, so to speak.
I am serious, and I do believe your parents are the exception and not the rule. My parents are late 50s/early 60s and I could count on one hand the number of times I have heard them mention an ex. I didn't even know my father was married for two years (when he was 18) until I was 14 or 15, and I think my Mom mentioned an ex-fiance once or twice in passing, and that's it. Our family talks about everything, past, present and future, but this territory is fairly off-limits. Asking several of my friends (we are ~30 with mostly long-term married parents) I can not find anyone whose parents keep in touch with exes. If they do we just don't know about it.
I still firmly believe that exes are just better left in the past. I'm not saying this is 100% for everyone, or that your situation may be different, I have just seen more bad than good when it comes to exes trying to be friends, and I think the odds are usually stacked against it. All it takes is one new boyfriend or girlfriend who doesn't like the idea of you being friends with your ex or your ex being friends with you to throw you into a world of drama.
you can really force it tho, either you maintain contact or you dont. If you try to maintain a relationship with them there is a few things you have to remember.
You dont fuck them, too much emotion involved and its never a good idea.
You dont let it go past friendly, if it starts going all bf/gf you knock that shit off, this means cuddling, kissing anything romantic is off limits.
Dont see each other all the time, give each other space, breathing room and distance.
Get use to the fact that your ex will be fucking someone else, if you can tolerate the idea it isnt going to work.
It can be hard to let someone go but there is an old saying, "best way to get over someone is to get under someone else" or on top or behind or in chains strapped to the ceiling.
Maybe things will work out. If not, your descision will be made for you. Win/win.
This should give you a chance to get some perspective on the situation as a whole and eventually you will be able to re-open the lines of communication and rekindle the friendship if that is what you still want.
Its very hard to see clearly when you are in the midst of this sort of situation. A bit of distance and 'you' time can work wonders.
*she had 'been expecting' this conversation
*when asked how she felt about our friendship, she responded 'I've been waiting to see how you felt about it, but so far it hasn't been an issue for me'
*shortly thereafter she said 'I don't know how to be just friends with you' since our relationship has always been romantic
*I told her that it was clear that I was second place in her mind, to which she nodded, and I said that I couldn't really do that at this point
*I told her that given our history it was difficult for me to see her moving on to someone new and whom she admitted she hopes she turns serious about so quickly, to which she responded both that she 'didn't intend' on that to happen and that she could understand because she's seen someone she was in love with move on quickly
All this was interspersed with her wandering around the apartment, collecting up some of the stuff that I had left there when we lived together. She also looked on the verge of tears the entire time. She asked me to look for a videogame and some of her movies that I might have packed up accidentally when I left, asked me to call her when I found them, and then asked me to leave again. So, I took the box from her, said goodbye, and left.
This was about a week ago now. Despite it being somewhat difficult the first day or two, I feel pretty confident that in the end I did the right and necessary thing. We haven't had contact since, and neither of us have tried to get in touch with the other. I also feel that me trying to contact her would both not be beneficial for my mental state and also be incredibly disingenuous of me and send a mixed signal. What I've noticed personally is that my desire to contact her seems to be correlated with loneliness or boredom; which is to say, whenever I feel lonely/bored, I get the desire to get in touch with her. I figure this is probably a routine I'm in given that that's always been what I've done for the past couple of years, and I just need to get out of said routine. As far as I can see, this relationship is over.
In the end, my question is primarily one of 'where do I go from here?' both in relation to her and to what I personally should do/be doing. I've never actually had things be so crappy that I've had to cut off contact with someone completely, and I'm trying to not think of things in future terms (e.g. setting a date we can be friends again or anything like that). So in a sense, I'm treading some new ground here, and was curious what kind of advice people had. Thanks for reading!
As regards to where you go from here:
In relation to her, you should probably just leave things fallow for a while. Potentially a long while. Maybe, when you've both been through a couple more relationships, you'll be ready to interact as friends. Definitely don't put a date on it, though. One day in the future you'll run into her somewhere and it won't hurt anymore -- and there won't be any yearning, longing feelings at all, for either of you. That's the point at which you're ready to try to be friends again. Not before.
In relation to other stuff. You hit the nail on the head when you said this:
Keep yourself busy. Go out, have fun. Make yourself a social whirlwind for a while. Join some sports teams or a book club or a band or... well, anything. Going out and doing stuff with your time has three benefits:
a) You're not at home, bored, thinking that maybe you should call her.
b) Your mind will fill up with thoughts about your new hobbies, old friends you're getting reacquainted with, new girls you're meeting etc, and you'll move on from her faster.
and
c) Doing all this new and exciting stuff will make you more interesting to the next girl.
Hope that helps -- and good luck.