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Looming conflict with (future) father-in-law [SOLVED]
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This is kind of a wall of text, and I apologize for that. Spoiler'd for backstory.
tl;dr: My fiancée's dad is going back on his promise to help put my fiancée through school, and he's trying to get us to take responsibility for selling a car that he destroyed.
I was raised to believe that you should be beholden to no one. My intent at this point is to take financial responsibility for my fiancée. This is going to mean taking a second job, but I think it's the right thing to do. Right now, my intent is to take him aside the next time I see him and offer to buy the car from him for a (more than) fair price (a dealership offered him $700 in trade-in value when it was still running, I'm going to remind him of that and offer him $1,400, which he'll have no justification for bitching about). Then I'm going to tell him in no uncertain terms that I'm taking financial responsibility for his daughter's college education.
How the fuck do I do that?
I mean, when I had to sever financial ties with my own parents, I was able to be kind of a cowboy about it. I want to tell this guy straight up, "I'm not going to come between you and your daughter, but as far as I'm concerned, she's my responsibility at this point. Here's $1,400 for the car -- I don't accept the premise that we're responsible for it, but I'm not going to be beholden to you. As of this point, I'm taking over your half of her education and associated expenses, because I'm not going to leave her future in the hands of someone who jerks her around like you have recently."
I'm pretty sure that would put a crimp in the, "so hey, I'd like to marry your daughter" talk a month or two down the road, though. >_>
What is the correct way of telling this guy, "you dropped the ball on your daughter and now I'm picking it up" without completely ruining any chance I'd have at a good relationship with her family down the road? What's the right balance between being amicable and calling him out? I left home without saying goodbye on my 18th birthday, so suffice to say dealing with family isn't my strong suit.
My fiancée comes from a bit of money. Her dad is a doctor, and a very successful one at that. Since I've been dating his daughter, her parents have thrown a lavish $30,000+ wedding for her sister, vacationed for months at a time, and their latest endeavor is buying a summer home on the beach in another country. That last bit hasn't been going so well, though -- they're having a difficult time settling on a place, and they're burning through earnest money, deposits, international air fare, and inspection costs like there's no tomorrow.
This is all well and good, except it appears they're overextending themselves pretty severely. They already own three houses, a number of nice cars, and a small yacht, and I think it's finally dawning on them that if they're going to add a winter house abroad to their real estate portfolio, they're going to have to tighten their belts.
First on the chopping block? My fiancée's college education.
Since long before I met her, the agreement between her and her parents has been that her parents will pay for half of however much education she wants to pursue. Ph.D? No problem, as long as she can come up with loans, scholarships, or part-time jobs to cover her half. She's currently wrapping up an M.A. in English, but she's strongly considering pursuing a second master's in sociology. When she initially approached her father about this three months ago, his only concern was that she should go to a more prestigious (expensive) school than the one she'd chosen (that's closer to me). When we mentioned that part of the reason we'd settled on that school for her is that it's one I could afford to put her through if need be, he cut me off and said, "You'll never need to worry about that."
What a difference three months makes.
Since they decided to buy a vacation home, the tone of our relationship has changed dramatically. Her father has called two or three times in just the last few weeks to insinuate that she is a financial burden. The highlight of these conversations (which had my unflappable partner visibly shaken) was her father demanding to know, "When are you going to take responsibility for your education? At what point will you say, 'I've got it from here'?"
Since then, a growing point of contention is her old car. It has some serious problems, and needed repairs vastly exceeding its value. Her parents tried unsuccessfully to sell it last fall, then they left it under several feet of snow all winter, killing the already crippled beast. Yesterday, her dad called and blamed us for it, saying that we should have "put an ad on the internet or something" and "taken responsibility" before the snow fell for selling a car that was parked 200 miles from us (with her dad's name on the registration, no less). His implication was that we need to deal with this car that he neglected and destroyed this winter.
So I'm pretty furious at this point. While her finances are ultimately still her business, her dad is reneging on his promise to put her through college, and apparently he thinks that I need to fix the car for them. I'd say those things both put me in the middle of this conflict.
This is all well and good, except it appears they're overextending themselves pretty severely. They already own three houses, a number of nice cars, and a small yacht, and I think it's finally dawning on them that if they're going to add a winter house abroad to their real estate portfolio, they're going to have to tighten their belts.
First on the chopping block? My fiancée's college education.
Since long before I met her, the agreement between her and her parents has been that her parents will pay for half of however much education she wants to pursue. Ph.D? No problem, as long as she can come up with loans, scholarships, or part-time jobs to cover her half. She's currently wrapping up an M.A. in English, but she's strongly considering pursuing a second master's in sociology. When she initially approached her father about this three months ago, his only concern was that she should go to a more prestigious (expensive) school than the one she'd chosen (that's closer to me). When we mentioned that part of the reason we'd settled on that school for her is that it's one I could afford to put her through if need be, he cut me off and said, "You'll never need to worry about that."
What a difference three months makes.
Since they decided to buy a vacation home, the tone of our relationship has changed dramatically. Her father has called two or three times in just the last few weeks to insinuate that she is a financial burden. The highlight of these conversations (which had my unflappable partner visibly shaken) was her father demanding to know, "When are you going to take responsibility for your education? At what point will you say, 'I've got it from here'?"
Since then, a growing point of contention is her old car. It has some serious problems, and needed repairs vastly exceeding its value. Her parents tried unsuccessfully to sell it last fall, then they left it under several feet of snow all winter, killing the already crippled beast. Yesterday, her dad called and blamed us for it, saying that we should have "put an ad on the internet or something" and "taken responsibility" before the snow fell for selling a car that was parked 200 miles from us (with her dad's name on the registration, no less). His implication was that we need to deal with this car that he neglected and destroyed this winter.
So I'm pretty furious at this point. While her finances are ultimately still her business, her dad is reneging on his promise to put her through college, and apparently he thinks that I need to fix the car for them. I'd say those things both put me in the middle of this conflict.
tl;dr: My fiancée's dad is going back on his promise to help put my fiancée through school, and he's trying to get us to take responsibility for selling a car that he destroyed.
I was raised to believe that you should be beholden to no one. My intent at this point is to take financial responsibility for my fiancée. This is going to mean taking a second job, but I think it's the right thing to do. Right now, my intent is to take him aside the next time I see him and offer to buy the car from him for a (more than) fair price (a dealership offered him $700 in trade-in value when it was still running, I'm going to remind him of that and offer him $1,400, which he'll have no justification for bitching about). Then I'm going to tell him in no uncertain terms that I'm taking financial responsibility for his daughter's college education.
How the fuck do I do that?
I mean, when I had to sever financial ties with my own parents, I was able to be kind of a cowboy about it. I want to tell this guy straight up, "I'm not going to come between you and your daughter, but as far as I'm concerned, she's my responsibility at this point. Here's $1,400 for the car -- I don't accept the premise that we're responsible for it, but I'm not going to be beholden to you. As of this point, I'm taking over your half of her education and associated expenses, because I'm not going to leave her future in the hands of someone who jerks her around like you have recently."
I'm pretty sure that would put a crimp in the, "so hey, I'd like to marry your daughter" talk a month or two down the road, though. >_>
What is the correct way of telling this guy, "you dropped the ball on your daughter and now I'm picking it up" without completely ruining any chance I'd have at a good relationship with her family down the road? What's the right balance between being amicable and calling him out? I left home without saying goodbye on my 18th birthday, so suffice to say dealing with family isn't my strong suit.
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You'll be hearing these types of things from her parents if/when you bring this up. How long have you been dating? If it's for a (relatively) short amount of time, you'll be hard pressed not to come off as arrogant, which can drive a wedge between her and her family - the last thing you want is for her to have to choose between you and them.
I would think one masters is enough - why commit to another 7 years of school? She should just get a job. That ends all your issues, gives her more freedom and responsibility, and dad gets off your back.
Regarding the car, I would argue that if it's yours then you should've taken care of it.
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Since the car is in his name alone, if he wants money for it he can sell it/donate it/etc.
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Also, you dont need anyone's permission to marry her, other than hers. And the state's. Imagine if you had a fight with your mother and your girlfriend called your mom and bitched her out. Or asked for permission to marry you.
We are absolutely getting married this fall, there's no real worry of things "not working out". We've been living together as common-law partners for over a year. This isn't a "I'm putting my G/F through college, we've been dating for three months and it's amazing!" thing, for all intents and purposes, she's my wife, it just isn't formal yet.
It's been over three years, living together for almost half of that. I probably should have mentioned this in the OP.
She's my responsibility because I'm marrying her in a few months. She's still her father's responsibility because he promised to cover half of her college education (having unflinchingly given her older sister a full ticket. My gal is only asking for half, and she's going to much cheaper schools). She wasn't asking for anything but a kept promise, and since it doesn't look like that's happening, we're going to be paying our own way. What part of that isn't okay?
Err... one year of school.
Thank you for your opinion. I would kind of like to see the most important person in my life equipped to fulfill her dreams, and I have no problem with working hard for an extra few months to make that happen, but...
It wasn't in her name, so our hands were tied.
- You aren't married, so you don't have any legal recourse, should anything happen that causes you to have a change of heart down the road. Any money you give her is gone.
- Assuming she's a complete dishrag, you're continuing a cycle of allowing this woman to abdicate financial responsibility in favor of a male figure who will swoop in with a checkbook and make the nasty bills go away. If she doesn't take some responsibility (by shouldering some of the financial burden of her education), she could concievably just head back for a 3rd Masters on your dime after the 2nd is finished. As long as someone else keeps paying for it, what's the big deal to her?
- Assuming she's not a complete dishrag, she'll probably take some serious offense to you trying to swoop in and take over her finances. You aren't her husband. You aren't her father. Let her handle her own business and if she wants your help, she'll ask.
- Your motives for telling the father to take his wishy-washy checkbook and shove it up his cadduceus may be pure, but it comes off like you're doing it largely out of spite, since he made you feel small about it in the first place ( She'll never have to worry about that). If you really want to be the financial rock this woman leans on, you can just as easily do it without telling dad about it.
As far as the car goes, if it's registered in his name, the title (or loan) is in his name, then it's his business to take care of. If you're not going to expect him to shell out for another car for your girlfriend, you can just tell him that it's not your (plural) car and it's not your responsibility to sell/salvage. Your offer of $1400 is retardedly generous.Now I'd really love it if people would advise me on how to deal with her parents instead of telling me I'm a bad person for wanting to support the person I'm marrying, kthx!
EDIT: and this was directed pretty squarely at SatanIsMyMotor, not Hardleft or NecroSYS who posted while I was writing this.
Well, to be fair to everyone else in this thread, you didn't really give all of the backstory in the OP that would take a lot of the ammunition out of that side of it.
But, like I said already, you don't have to talk to her dad about it at all. Handle it between the two of you. If her father sends a check or three to help with tuition, then great. If not, you weren't expecting it anyway.
I already covered the car thing in my last post.
What's HER opinion on this whole mess?
The dad is a dick and he's pissing you off. He's not your dad though, and its not really your problem to fix. Be your girlfriend's support and go let some steam off.
I'm not getting mad at forumers at large, I'm getting mad pretty directly at SatanIsMyMotor. :P
Keep in mind that some of these replies came while I was writing other replies. My last post was pointed at SatanIsMyMotor rather than Necrosys -- my fault for not quoting.
Hmm. I'd rephrase here. It's not really her parents'/your half of her education we're talking about. I'm assuming that legally, she's old enough for it to be her whole. Her future should really be in her own hands, and anything that either you or her father offer is little more than retractable charity (for want of a better term). These promises of money should have been treated with the transience they deserve from the start. It's a cruel world, and perhaps you think her father's love should be as much of a pledge as yours, but unfortunately it's not. I reckon your discussion with him will be a lot friendlier and conducive to further talks of marriage if you bear in mind that he doesn't owe her anything. He was a jerk to encourage her to go to an expensive school, yes, and I wouldn't really blame you for expecting a rich father to keep to his word... but unless he signed a binding contract, this was always a possibility. Accept that it's his call what happens to his money.
I'm not some dilettante succubus man-user who latches on to the nearest thing with a dick and sucks its proverbial teat until it collapses, spent and emptied, at which point I leap spider-like to my next host. My parents and I had a long-standing agreement that they would pay for half of all of my education because both of them are strong believers in the usefulness of degrees (he's a doctor, she's a registered nurse). And while they've been paying for half, I've been doing my part, too - I work summers, I take on-campus jobs during the school year tutoring and notetaking and TAing, and in a couple of months, I'm going to have a Master's degree in English and a grand total of $0 of student debt.
But now, my parents are reneging on their offer, and I'm kind of stuck. My top priority is being with pixels, which is why we both thought that doing a second Master's down in the US would be the best of both worlds: I'd be maximizing my opportunities for well-paying employment (have you seen the government jobs for people with a sociology MA? It's ridiculously awesome), I'd be living with pixels, he'd be working fulltime, and my parents would be contributing to my tuition. Now, it's looking like that card is being petulantly yanked from the table, so I'm left with two options:
1. Get a job here in Canada with my English MA, and get to see my fiance maybe every other weekend, if we're lucky;
2. Let pixels shoulder the burden of payment for now, aided by whatever loans I can get.
To me, there's a key difference between depending on my parents to pay for my education, and depending on pixels. In the former case, I'm relying on people who had every right to kick my ass to the curb years ago, who have no further obligations to support me, whose word has proven to be untrustworthy, and who can decide to cut me off at any time because I didn't get my mother a nice enough present for Mother's Day, or I didn't sell my father's car for him, or I didn't agree quickly enough to drop everything I was doing to drive three hours north to take care of their yappy little dogs on two hours' notice because they had to fly down to Florida right then to do a home inspection and God forbid precious little Teddy and Kelly stay in a kennel like common dogs.
In the latter case, I would be relying on the man I am going to spend the rest of my life with. He would indeed be supporting me financially for the year or two it would take to get my degree; in exchange, both of us would be supporting the other emotionally, we would both have the pure pleasure of living together, and once I got my degree, I would be able to translate it into a well-paying position that would give us the flexibility to let him take a couple of years off to go back to school if he chose to. Or to take six months off to record an album. Or to book a month-long cruise for a belated honeymoon.
So, that's how SHE feels about the whole thing.
Tell him that the two of you have been talking and that you've decided to take over the parent's half of the financial responsibility because the current situation is causing too much stress for everyone. That's pretty much what's really going on here.
But as far as talking with your dad about it goes, I'd still counsel not.
I think this is pretty much exactly what I was looking for, thank you. I feel like I need to say something (as moving his daughter to my native country and severing financial ties without a word would be kind of passive-aggressive). I admittedly can't help feeling like he needs to be called out on the fact that he threw over $100k at one daughter and just a small, small fraction of that at the other, but I guess that's just my vengeful side. Preferential treatment (to the tune of $90,000 in this case) and broken promises are both pretty big parental pet peeves of mine. Regardless, you're right that a more pacifistic approach is correct here, I think, and this is what I suppose I'm going to do.
Man, have you ever been to Canada? They love them some sociology up there.
So, you're planning on emigrating to Canada? This was also left out of the backstory.
I already said that I'm happy to take a second job to cover the cost of tuition. Thanks for trolling, though!
It was already two printed pages, and c'mon, I was asking for advice on the best approach to tell her dad I'm taking over her tuition costs, not the optimal path to citizenship in Canada. :P
I feel your pain here. Coming from a family that spent less than $1000 on my college education vs. $150k and counting on SPECIAL YOUNGEST DAUGHTER's education, year in Europe, etc, I have plenty of pent-up annoyance about it too.
But at the end of the day, you can't count on her parents to shell out if they don't want to. All you can do is support each other and keep the familial fireworks to a minimum.
Pixels --
I think that you have to let KoL do the talking on this one. If you march in there, throw money in his face, and then announce that you think he's a terrible father and that you'll be Taking Things From Here, you're going to make things much worse than they need to be. I think you want to do what you can to ensure that this issue blows over quickly, rather than colouring every interaction that your three have over the next forty years or so.
The plan itself (paying for the car even though it was his fault, and taking over some of the responsibility for your fiancee's education) is basically sound. It's just going to go over much more smoothly if you have as little to do with it as you can. Know what I mean?
Something simple like "Dad, I'm disappointed but I understand your decision. I'll be taking responsibility for my own education from now on," would be perfect. Once she's said that, it's really none of his business how the degree gets paid for.
Seriously though, it sounds like Kate has figured out all of the school stuff. I am really impressed. You are really fortunate to have the option to take over the payments and loans, so take advantage of it.
The parents sound more and more like flakes. Who needs 4 homes? I hate to depend on flaky people. My parents pulled some similar bullshit and I just took over for everything myself. It sucks to live paycheck to paycheck while people who said they would help spend their money on cruises, but the freedom and self-respect that comes along with it feels great.
Plus, they will probably be really impressed if you take over without having a big fight. Maybe Im just a jerk, but I really love the idea of a promise breaking, self-righteous parent seeing their child succeed without them and realizing that they no longer get to control their kid. Take solace in the image of him laying awake at night in his 4th house, feeling bad for being such a dick about the car. Him feeling guilty when he gets a Christmas card, or a Father's day call. If you eventually have kids, he'll wonder if he should have done more to help you in the past, in order to have made a better life for his grandkids. You dont need to call him on it. He will do it to himself.
The above sounds really heartless but there's a way out! He can see what a dick he's being and apologize/start helping with school again.
Uh, that sounds like you're contradicting yourself there. I mean, if you truly believe that, why are you taking a second job for her?
So she has to pay for her college education. Boo hoo. Not the first person that had to do that.
I'm pretty sure a parents obligation to pay for school isn't unreasonably ended after one MA.
That being said, don't confront them at all. Taking up a second job to put someone else through school is amazingly stupid, especially when that someone already has a degree that could easily land them a job capable of paying for continued education.
If you decide to go off and give him a sort of adolescent "We don't need you! So there!", you wont be doing yourself any favors. You don't get to take financial responsibility for anyone, that's not the way it works.
Why am I taking a second job to provide for my common-law spouse?
Really?
I guess if I'm ever out of work and she covers the bills for a few months, she should charge me interest?
So yeah, maybe the people saying "dude wtf stop QQing and just suck it up and work" should actually read the thread next time.
Yes, really.
Cause you know, she could always put her education on hold for a bit. Or take out loans. Plus more importantly, why can't she work? I go to school full time and work full time, and I get along just fine. So it can be done.
It strikes me like you want to be the shining knight.
No, because you'll surely have three jobs by then.
I don't think there's any problem with your desire to help your girlfriend out, I think there's a problem with the reasoning and way you're going about it. Especially when it comes to her parents. Maybe it just isn't coming across right in text, but you have some sort of attitude going on about the entire ordeal that doesn't seem very realistic or healthy to me.
Allowed to work? What?
edit: I know doctors who work 70 hours a week and are continuing their education. Shit one of them is going to school to be an aerospace engineer and astro physicist. It can be done.
Kate, are you planning to move to the US? Or is wasted moving to Canada?
THIS VISA SEVERELY LIMITS WHAT I CAN LEGALLY DO IN THE US, INCLUDING SETTING STRICT LIMITS ON WHERE AND HOW MUCH I CAN WORK
WHY IS THIS DIFFICULT
I understand it's a lot of work, but when someone puts this much effort into something it usually isn't because they like hearing the sound of their own Internet Voice. All of the reasons why you're being regarded as the raging douches that you're acting like have been pretty soundly explained.
That or have the courtesy to say "I tl;dr'd that shit, so here's my uninformed opinion."
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
More or less like you did. You're both in an unenviable situation. But without knowing either of you, and based entirely upon what I've read, you seem very well equipped to deal with this. Not to play devil's advocate, but it sounds like the parent's are in a bind that's only getting tighter. This does not excuse the wishy-washy behavior, but it may help explain it.
This is far more simple to write than do, but it would behoove you both to figure out exactly what the two of you will need to do in order to accomplish the educational goals without any help from the parents. Make a 5 year plan. Figure out what the costs will be, how you'll cover those costs, and what return of investment on the additional degree you can expect to realize in the next ten years. What can you afford to cut out to help? What are your options for a second job (directed specifically to pixels, obviously)?
Again, it's a rough situation. But you both seem adroit enough to handle it without burning any bridges.
I wholeheartedly wish you the best of luck - and remember how lucky you are to have each other!