Considering Grad School
Kyougu
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So at 27 years old, last December I finally graduated from college. Five months later I'm contemplating graduate school, but I'm sorta terrified about it, even though I have always figured I wanted to do further schooling.
Some background:
Political Science Major with a minor in Legal Reasoning
GPA of 3.4 overall and around 3.8 in the Major from UTEP. So I think it would scale down when compared to larger, more competitive schools.
About 30 K in debt from student loans. They're all stanford loans, and I plan on consilidating.
So why am I terrified? For one, the idea of racking up more debt is not a pleasant one. Also, although having a decent enough GPA, and exceled in my Pol Science classes, I made absolutely 0 contacts in school. No letter of recomendations, no extra curricular activites, zilch. I think MAYBE I could scrunge up one letter from a proffesor, maybe. So I figure getting in is going to be hard. Then I'm not even sure if I NEED graduate school, as I'm currently working at Chase in the foreclosure dept, with enough decent possibility of advancement/career.
Oh and I have no idea how I would even start the process. Don't know what to look for in schools, what I should study...nada.
Then there's the whole thing about being 27 in school. It just feels like I haven't even started my "adult" life yet if I return.
On the plus side, I love learning, and enjoy going to school. I think I would do good in Graduate School, and I would love to continue studying politics to maybe be able to teach it in college someday.
So yeah, I would love to hear from people who been in my situation, or even current grad school students, just what do you guys think?
Some background:
Political Science Major with a minor in Legal Reasoning
GPA of 3.4 overall and around 3.8 in the Major from UTEP. So I think it would scale down when compared to larger, more competitive schools.
About 30 K in debt from student loans. They're all stanford loans, and I plan on consilidating.
So why am I terrified? For one, the idea of racking up more debt is not a pleasant one. Also, although having a decent enough GPA, and exceled in my Pol Science classes, I made absolutely 0 contacts in school. No letter of recomendations, no extra curricular activites, zilch. I think MAYBE I could scrunge up one letter from a proffesor, maybe. So I figure getting in is going to be hard. Then I'm not even sure if I NEED graduate school, as I'm currently working at Chase in the foreclosure dept, with enough decent possibility of advancement/career.
Oh and I have no idea how I would even start the process. Don't know what to look for in schools, what I should study...nada.
Then there's the whole thing about being 27 in school. It just feels like I haven't even started my "adult" life yet if I return.
On the plus side, I love learning, and enjoy going to school. I think I would do good in Graduate School, and I would love to continue studying politics to maybe be able to teach it in college someday.
So yeah, I would love to hear from people who been in my situation, or even current grad school students, just what do you guys think?
Kyougu on
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Also, 27 in school is fine. Hell, I know a fair number of undergraduates in that age range thanks to my school's School of General Studies.
Going back to school is later is nice in that it helps give you a better sense of perspective. Racking up more debt is always an issue though, I was fortunate in that I was able to win nearly a full scholarship through my school.
I actually worked at work on Saturday. Also I went out on a date with a real life girl.
Can you like, permanently break the forums?
http://web.archive.org/web/20000829094953/http://www.pcmagic.net/abe/gradeadj.htm
What the chart looked like would really depend on the type of program and school. If you're applying to an elite program, though, you'll be stacked up against a lot of kids from better schools w/better GPAs. This doesn't mean you can't go to grad school, it means you need to do well on your GRE; i'd invest money in prep programs if this matters to you, because the value of a masters from a bad progaram approximates zero, and the value from a very good program greatly exceeds what you'd spend on the prep. Additionally, programs may kick you a little scholarship cash if you can up their GRE averages.
Are you sure you want to go to grad school (it looks like for polisci?) My friends who are on the professorship/tenure track are really, really geeky about authors and issues. Like, replace your love of video games with a love of rational choice theory, christopher achen and rawls.
Furthermore, masters are useless if you want to be an academic. I guess a handful of them might help you do public policy work, but that would be like kennedy school of gov't at harvard, some of the tufts/fletcher programs, columbia's environmental policy one, georgetown's foreign service one, stanford/berkeley (though they're kind of wonkish...). In terms of staying in texas and networking, LBJ at UTAustin may be good, but I don't have any first-hand experience with it. Other masters programs are great if you want to up-credential mid-career, but thehy'ren ot great for networking or helping you get your foot in the door somewhere.
Masters are also really expensive - it's good that you're skeptical of getting more student loan debt. You shouldn't be paying if you're going to a PhD program, though, and you can always get the masters for free then bail. Taking on more debt for the right masters program makes sense, but you need to a) get into a good program and b) have a more concrete set of goals and plans to achieve those goals before you consider enrolling anywhere.
I had no problem getting into a Political Science masters program in a similar situation (graduated from UT-Tyler with overall and major GPA slightly lower than yours). I did pretty well on the GRE, which I am sure helped a lot.
Part of the problem I ran into is there were not a lot of schools that OFFERED just a masters in political science - at least, not without the caveat that you aren't getting in if you aren't going for a PhD. You may not get into a top-tier school, and won't get any scholarship if you do, but you could get accepted to a decent state school. (For the record, I went to Illinois State University and was a teaching assistant there. Free tuition + stipend. Still had loans, though, but at before that point my student loan debt was $0).
They don't look at just one thing, they look at your entire application. GPA, GRE scores, recommendations.
Also, recommendations: Did you have more than one class with any professor? If so, you can probably get a recommendation from them. Unless they don't remember you at all or you have a bad history with them. You will need 2-3.
Decide what you want to get out of the degree before you start. I did it just for the experience, but I knew that going in.
Letters of recommendation aren't too hard to come by. However, don't wait to the last minute. Profs. do not appreciate you showing up in December, right before break, asking for a letter by January 1.
My fear at this point this point is that I want to get a Master's political science, but I took one poli sci class in my undergrad ( I got a B in it ), so I'll be behind as far as I can tell. I think I'm going to have a rockin' GRE and statement of purpose.
My Little Game Blog - http://profundospielen.blogspot.com/
Grad school is worthless if you don't have a good reason to be there. You need the reason just to finish, for one thing, but unless your planned career requires the degree, it won't help any.
The ephemeral "I think I might want to teach someday" really isn't enough of a push. You either want to be a faculty member, or you don't. As far as I know for Politcal Science, that's the only career trajectory open to you with a terminal PolySci degree. Maybe that's not true, you'll have to educate me. And if you don't know whether it's true or not, you haven't done nearly enough to know whether you want to do this or not.
I was in two minds about doing my CompSci PhD for a very long time. I spent that time in the work place, and it was that experience that gave me the perspective to really drive myself through the program. I really, really want to be here. I can see the people who don't (and they're all people that came straight from undergrad), and they are literally wasting their lives away, because I know they're going to drop out, and even if they get the PhD, do absolutely nothing that needed it.
in my experience (finishing my PhD in EE) your undergrad institution is not that huge a factor. If you look at webpages for research groups at schools like MIT, Stanford, CalTech, UIUC, etc... you see plenty of people who went to seemingly no-name undergrad schools. Even then, UTEP isn't a no name since it is a fairly large state school, unlike one of the millions of liberal arts colleges sprinkled across the US. Grad schools often accept based on potential as expressed through things like GPA, GRE, statement of purpose.
Of course, this is different when you try to find a faculty job. There, pedigree matters, unfortunately.
Is having a genuine excitement for education a good enough reason to go? On top of that, I am not exactly pleased with the career path I am on currently. I'm working as an administrative assistant at a small biotech company and if I were to stay here I could move up to a decent position, but I'm not really interested in what I do. I don't hate it, but I think my talents could be better applied elsewhere.
While we're talking about grad school- I have a BA in English Literature, but I want to get my masters in political science (potentially going on to a PhD. or studying law depending on where I am in a few years). I am anxious about not having any kind of poli sci background going into a program. Does anyone have any suggestions about the best way of not only preparing myself, but figuring a way of not making my background seem lacking. I have been reading a ton of the basics- The Prince, Democracy in America, The Republic, etc. I read Politico, and fivethirtyeight daily, and watch a good helping of evening news (MSNBC mostly, but I force myself to watch half an hour of Glenn Beck every few days to see how the other half lives) Is there anything else I can be doing?
My Little Game Blog - http://profundospielen.blogspot.com/
A genuine excitement for education is not a good enough reason to go get a masters, for which 1) you pay for, and 2) you forgo income for. It might be a good reason to go take community college classes, though. Masters programs are useless useless useless 90% of the time, without relevant work experience or connections. Masters let you up-credential, generally, rather than start a career. I posted about this a little bit up the thread.
Polisci programs are methodological and quantitative more than they are qualitative in most departments. If the readings you've described interest you, you should look at political philosophy programs, and talk to academics about which programs are best for your interests. If you really want to prepare for a polisci program, you should be learning STATA and SPSS, along with taking statistics classes and anything that teaches you how to do linear regressions.
But you shouldn't do any of this if you can't articulate the career you'll be having at the end of the tunnel. Otherwise you'll have thrown away tens of thousands of dollars. Tenure-track professorship posts don't grow on trees. Most PhD programs don't want to admit masters students from other programs, because they've been trained different methodologically -- so you should apply initially as a PhD student if that's the road you want to take.
I will honestly say that part of the reason I'm considering grad school is because I'm still hazy with what I want to do with myself. It's only been 4 months since graduating, but I feel like I'm not achieving anything. My job is largely data entry, though my responsibilities have been expanding more and I'm in good terms with the manager. I know if I just stay where I'm at for at least a year, I'll be moved up, and maybe find myself enjoying my work more.
I think it's because I always expected to go further in my education. I knew going into college that I wanted to get a degree in Poli Science and that it would be pretty much worthless in the real world (As worthless as a college degree can be). I didn't mind that, and I still don't regret it as I figure had I taken a major I didn't have any interest in I would have done worse in school. I figured that the only way I could really continue working in my field of interest was to keep going the school track, and so far that seems to be the case.
An option that has become more attractive to me lately has been pursuing an M.B.A or heading to grad school for business. Not only do I think that would serve me better in the real world, but my minor in legal reasoning is made up of many bussiness law classes and I really enjoyed and did good in those. Working in the foreclosure dept like I am right now has been reminding me how interesting the world of business is, and how much politics and business mix. I would love to study something that would mix both.
Also, like Dasboot, I really just enjoy learning. I know it's cliche, but I enjoy the academic world, I like being challenged intelluactially, and part of me misses school.
This depends on whether you think paying a lot of money (which you will be as a Masters student. PhDs are usually the only ones who are funded) for "genuine excitement" is worth more to you than making money on an entry-level job on a different career path.
What do you want to do with a Masters in PolySci? Do you know what doors it opens, if any?
Almost all the TAs i've talked to have said don't mention you are only going for your masters - say you intend to also go for you phd, even if you aren't. More likely to receive aid that way.
While this is one of the more common reasons to go on to further education it is a bad reason. It is why you have people with PhDs in biology doing IT. And people doing Physics PhDs who realize they would rather be a farmer halfway through (yes I know both of these people well).
Volunteer. Talk to other people with jobs they like. Explore your options that way. It is easier to get additional credentials later than get rid of them if you are overqualified.
Don't get a master's because you don't know what else to do.
Lots of people forgo graduate school after they finish their undergrad and then realize that they want to go back to school after they have worked/done other stuff for a couple of years. I graduated from college in 2005 with a BA in history, worked for a few years, and now I'm going back to school. I've been in the IT field for 8 years and I realized last year that I absolutely hate it, so I'm going back to school to learn how to do something else.
Going to school for the sake of learning is fine... if you can afford it. However, realize that higher education is absolutely about declaring what you're going to do with the rest of your life. If you get a Masters in Public Policy, well, you better be willing to work in politics/government. Don't just get a higher degree for the sake of having one.
This is some solid advice. Grad school can be expensive, it can be hard, but it will take every ounce of motivation you have.
As the quoted poster says, do some volunteer work, talk to an old prof and see if he can give you any hints on where to go to sit in on presentations/seminars/whatnot. Restrengthen those old connections and learn something new. Hell, if you're lucky, you can work with someone on a paper and get a pub out there (Once you have a few pubs, no one cares about pedigree anymore). All these things will inform you on whether you are making the right choice, and if you do, they will vastly improve your chances of getting into a good school.
Also, apply for a PhD program. It helps in landing aid, and there is a reason you get a Masters in between...that is, quite a few people drop out at that point.