Making 1080p files that aren't huge in file size?

DarkWarrior

Ok, I'm having a small problem here. Using Sony Vegas I'm trying to encode some small videos, basically a bunch of game trailers, we're only taking 13 or so minutes here.

I'm testing it on a short video, only about 50 seconds long that is 720p of the Ghostbusters game. Now I'm trying to maintain a really high quality, as high as possible here as the usual output I get is heavily pixelated.

I'm going for 1080p mostly so it will fill a screen fully when displayed through a PS3 as I tried it with 720p (The video being grainy as hell) and it looks weird and small taking up only the middle of hte screen.


Current settings are:
Input source: 1280x720
Project dimensions: 1440x1080
Output dimensions: 1440x1080 using profile HDV 1080-50i intermediate (I dont know what this means, just sounds hi-def)

Codecs used in tests so far: Sony YUV codec, VP61 Advanced Profile, others but can't remember right now.

FPS: 25 (Pal)


So my question is, whats going wrong, why am I creating files that can go as high as 4gb for a 50 second video when the original hi-def 720p trailer is 10mb? I only want to create something in this region though double is fine, but not 4gb, theres no way when other trailers are added itll fit on a ps3, let alone me being able to transfer it there.

How do people make these videos on places like GameTrailers that are hi-def but a reasonable (not ridiculous) size?

Thanks in advance.

PeregrineFalcon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC

Get your compression on.

Jasconius

There should be a bitrate setting somewhere.

4GB for 50 seconds sounds like raw/uncompressed video...

If there's a bitrate setting you can cap it, which will reduce video quality but also drastically reduce size. It sounds like those clips you have are probably at something stupid like 300mbps, whereas a high quality web video is literally 1% that size.

You could take it down all the way to 10% that bitrate and not even be able to tell, visually, that it has been compressed.

DarkWarrior

With the 1080p profile doesnt seem to give me any control over that, ill go take a look.

DarkWarrior

Peregrine is that an encoding codec or an after-its-done compression thing? And where can I get it? Couldn't see an appropriate link there.

EDIT: The source files appear to be 192kbps.

PeregrineFalcon

DarkWarrior wrote: »

Peregrine is that an encoding codec or an after-its-done compression thing? And where can I get it? Couldn't see an appropriate link there.

EDIT: The source files appear to be 192kbps.

It's a codec standard, there's a boatload of them.

Free and pretty solid one is x264 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X264

Codec & info:
http://www.videolan.org/developers/x264.html

MEGui:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=96032

Also no goddamn way is your source only 192kbps total, maybe on the audio stream.

What's your source, as in the file?

DarkWarrior

Yeah I ballsed it up, its 3000kbps, was looking at the wrong thing.

Its a windows media audio/video file. Honestly I'm not trying to do much, all I want is to take the very nice, crisp videos from game trailers add a release date and logo to the top so im allowed to use it in the store and just renecode it. 720 isn't unquestionable but it doesnt fill the screen very well, for some reason even if you set the PS3 to have amax res of 720.

PeregrineFalcon

DarkWarrior wrote: »

Yeah I ballsed it up, its 3000kbps, was looking at the wrong thing.

Its a windows media audio/video file. Honestly I'm not trying to do much, all I want is to take the very nice, crisp videos from game trailers add a release date and logo to the top so im allowed to use it in the store and just renecode it. 720 isn't unquestionable but it doesnt fill the screen very well, for some reason even if you set the PS3 to have amax res of 720.

Redownload the video in QuickTime format - it's actually H.264 in the apple .MOV container. Pretty sure there's a freeware way to get it out into the .MP4 and .WAV (or .MP3/.AC3) audio tracks, and then you'll have a lot easier time reencoding.

And reencoding always cocks up the quality of a video - give yourself at least 25% overhead from the source bandwidth if you have to keep the nice crisp quality.

DarkWarrior

So....if its originally 3000kbps I should encode it at 3750 or something?

Oh I forgot, this is for a PS3, does PS3 support the H.264 format? I've been trying to get it done in divx with so-so results.

Jasconius

Why would you encode it with a larger bitrate if they are already too large?

Smaller bitrate = smaller file.

DarkWarrior

Dunno, just doing what Im told.

The one that was 4gb? Apparently thats encoded at 829440kbps

Jasconius

Oh yeah, got my numbers mixed up..

3000kbps is fine, but probably not great quality... that's a higher end web video.

If you're running this off of a disc at 1080p you can go higher and probably afford it.

Just play around with the numbers... but yeah, 6 digit kbps is a bit insane, obviously.

DarkWarrior

I think PS3s are limited to 2gb max file size on videos. The last one I did at 720 was about 13 minutes long and came out about 400MB but the quality is terrible on it. I downloaded and 'installed' the codec peregrine suggested though it just seems to flash a command window then do nothing. I can't see it as an option in Vegas even with a restart. I'm gonna have a little mess see if I can get anything to come of it.

PeregrineFalcon

Vegas isn't going to integrate well, if at all, with x264 - you'll have to add it as a third-party, command-line driven codec. That or use MEGUI - but you'd need to learn a new program. There are other codecs, but I don't know which ones would be free.

PS3s work with files > 2GB from disc - I've burned more than a few BD-9s and large files on DVD and it eats 'em up just fine.

Dark Shroud

The PS3 works with AVC with I believe is the ISO standard of H.264. Some H.264 files have played fine on it while others have crapped out compleatly. x264 seems to really be hit of miss if it works at all on the PS3.

I'm not familar with Sony Vegas, would the CoreAVC codec be of help here?

Barrakketh

DarkWarrior wrote: »

I think PS3s are limited to 2gb max file size on videos. The last one I did at 720 was about 13 minutes long and came out about 400MB but the quality is terrible on it.

What codec was that with? I do 720p material somewhat regularly at approximately 24 minutes in length/episode and an average bitrate of approximately 1775 kbps (that keeps the video itself down to around 310MB) and it comes out looking great. That's a two-pass encode with x264 (I use mencoder instead of the CLI app), though obviously the options you choose to enable can have noticeable effect on quality.

DarkWarrior

Think it was with DivX. DivX seems to suck huge balls.

I tried choosing two-pass encodes on some of hte codecs but it craps out and says the first pass is missing.

DarkWarrior

So X264 doesnt seem to integrate, seems to be a standalone program, im not good at that stuff, just want drag, drop, hi-def output.

Im gonna run a video through using the SOny YUV, I cant customise it and it will end up huge but then I will try to figre out how to run this x264 and run it through that and assumedly it will make it all pretty but compressed?

Houndx

Also, why encode it at a larger resolution than the source? You're going to end up with a larger file but you don't gain anything. The PS3 is more than capable of upscaling the video during playback.

DarkWarrior

Hmm...I was only doing it because the ohter results were turning out grainy and shitty, I assumed this was partly due to upscaling. You do have a point.

Oh wait, yeah I wanted to do it so it filled more of the screen to, its displayed on a big hi-def beauty. If I can get amazing hi-def quality at 720p though I'll take it. Honestly I just want to be able to make simple, small movies easily. I'd have thought that K-lite codec pack would have enough codecs to cover this but alas no. Theres virtually no options available at all in Vegas that are of any use or that produce anything of impressive quality and/or don't crash.

EDIT: FUck, Command lines are complex, do I have to have x264 in the same directory as the video or will a file address work as well?

FyreWulff

depending on the game, the publisher may have extremely hi-res media files on their anonymous FTP.

DarkWarrior

Well encoding this short 720p sequence at 1080 seemed to come out brilliantly, though the file was 5 gb.

It really doesnt matter too much if its 720p, just want that crystal clear picture. Back from work now so going to do some more experimenting.

DarkWarrior

Alright this is starting to annoy me now.

Ive found how to use the H.2 whatever codec through ffdshow and it usex 264 under the 'FourCC' menu. The quality doesn't seem too bad, need to test it on my PS3 though I can still see some pixellation during heavy motion scenes.

But the bitrate.

Its still going off into the 500000kbps territory for some reason. The file size isn't huge or anything, only 10mbps bigger than the regular file so theres something definitely not making sense there.

EDIT: Nm, PS3 doesn't like ffdshow, h.264 or no.

Hamurabi

I don't know whether or not this is verboten around these parts, so I'll just ask here.

Is there an app out to circumvent Blu-Ray HDCP blocks using a BD-ROM drive? My 2005FPW apparently didn't have the foresight to be HDCP-compatible.

DarkWarrior

I give up. I use Premiere all I get is artifacts all over the picture, I use Vegas I don't get the artifacts but I cannot get good quality output unless its over 3gb. FFDshow is the only way I can get use of the H.??? thing and even then it doesn't work right because its coming out with insane bit rates with not awful but not great quality.

I dunno what Im doing wrong but I'm obviously missing something. But I'm done for today, too pissed off to keep trying.

EDIT: These are what I have access to.

bash

1) You're scaling a video from 720p to 1080p, you're going from a small number to a big number. It should be obvious that you won't end up with "crystal clear" video. Your source is 1280x720 pixels, your output is 1920x1080 pixels. Your output video has a frame size that is 225% larger than your source video. In order to scale the video up the video editing software is interpolating pixels. That will give you some level of blocking before you ever compress it.

2) With the ffdshow codec pack installed you should be able to encode your project directly to an MP4 file containing H.264 video with AAC audio. Your PS3 should play this file without any problems. For a 1080p video you want to have a video bitrate of at least 6,000Kbit/s. This will be about 600MB for a 13 minute trailer. That size is about as good as you're going to get. A lower bitrate and you'll likely end up seeing artifacts in scenes with fast motion or transitions. Keep in mind you will get artifacts since you're scaling the video by 225%.

3) The PS3 has to have some way of display 720p video full screen. You has no idea what you're doing with the video editing so I think that limitation is something you screwed up rather than the fault of the console. It is foolish to scale the source video so much and think you'll magically get a clear and crisp picture. Let the PS3/television so the scaling and stick with a 720p frame size.

DarkWarrior

I'm only trying with 720p at the moment so that isn't the problem.

And its the PS3 not recognising the FFDshow codec, even if I use H.264.

Houndx

For what it's worth, Nero 9 does what you need.

DarkWarrior

CAn I edit video in there though? That seems to be the major problem.

As an aside, I removed every single codec, restarted, installed K-Lite with everything possible, restarted and the options in Sony Vegas don't seem to have changed.

MP4 wise I have access to MainConcept which only has amax resolution for IPod videos and Sony AVC or something which only has low resolution or 1080p for some reason. FFDshow installs with Klite but doesnt seem to enhance my options.

Any advice on codec packs I should be getting?

Ego

Use whatever you want to edit video, save uncompressed, and then encode the video with something else to get a manageable size. If Sony Vegas is what you like for video editing, then use it.

I've never encoded stuff specifically for the PS3 (guess who doesn't own a PS3? This guy!) but offhand I'm just going to recommend you useSUPER Video Converter by erightsoft. It's great software, and it's only fault is that it's stored on a web-page that's remarkably difficult to navigate. Basically it's a GUI front end for all the command line stuff that you don't like.

Spoiler for downloading instructions if you have trouble getting it from the link above

click the link above. Scroll waaaay down till you're at the bottom of the page, and above their advertisements should be:

"Start Downloading SUPER © right now and discover this fully featured Multimedia Freeware. It IS NOT RECOMMENDED to download SUPER © from other sites as you may get an outdated or tampered SETUP"

Click what I have bolded. This takes you to another page full of text. This time the link is near the top. Just below the big red box with red text warning you not to purchase SUPER (as it's free) is some more red text:

SUPER © is a FREE Multimedia software to download and use

Click what i have bolded. Welcome to page 3 of a whole bunch of text. This time the link is near the bottom again. Above some google advertising and below some image advertising is the following:

Download SUPER © setup file from our Xth dedicated server

We only provide limited technical support (no emails) for SUPER ©
To successfully download SUPER © you may use any web browser
supporting JavaScript: Chrome, Firefox, MSIE, Opera

Click, yet again, what I have bolded. This time it's an actual link to a file. Tadah!

DarkWarrior

Nope, I guess I just dont have the setup for this. I tried using an MP4 with H.264 but PS3 just doesnt recognise anything using FFDshow and using SuperVideo does shrink the files but even though I tell it to do it at 4000kbps its still making 2 gb file into a 200mb file when its only 50 seconds long. Don't think Im gonna be able to achieve what im after.

Sigh.

Thanks for the information anyway guys, Ive learned alot about KBps in regards to picture, I was just setting the res and assuming it would sort itself out. Checking some of the files Ive used in the past theyre only 1000mbps so its no wonder they look terrible.

DarkWarrior

So can someone answer me a quick question.

A bitrate of 1105920kbps isnt actually like 1,105,920kbps is it? I think I'm coming upon the problem here. I've passed on doing 1080, just did Batman Arkham Asylum in 720 twice, sent it to the PS3 in DivX (Yeah I know but its all I can encode it in on my computer that will work on the PS3) and the PS3 reading the info says its only 1000+kbps instead of hte 6000 I told it to aim for. Dunno why it does this, but this is what it does.

So when I look in the properties in Windows, it says the bitrate is 110520kbps. So is that literally 1000+kbps?

DarkWarrior

Jesus Ive been driving myself insane trying to convert these things and never thought of trying out the original files on PS3. They dont look as much like ass but they do look like ass during high action scenes. No wonder I couldnt get good results. God damnt.

Does anyone know how I can try to obtain 1080p versions of trailers?