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Fireside [chat]

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  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    stilist wrote: »
    I'm at least partially serious with the question. Given that the Star Wars universe (or any other fictional universe, scifi or no) has a variety of seeming incompatibilities with ours, why should we assume we can predict how scenarios not depicted will work out? Out knowledge of the universe is, in strict terms, limited to official cannon, which is the closest we can get to unbiased observation.

    But, as I've previously noted, Star Wars is at best a documentarian recreation of events, so who's to say its presentation of the Jedi is any more accurate than Homer's works or Caesar's notes on Celtic religion?
    As a reader, we have two assumptions about a fictional universe we're reading about
    1) Things work just as they do in our universe, unless specified otherwise.
    2) Information given by the author/narrator is accurate.

    To take your Star Wars example, canon has no information on how the Law of Gravity works in that universe. So we assume it does just as in ours. You can't have a story where the main characters are stuck in a pit, but get out because (hey we forgot to mention!) after a given depth below any planet's surface gravity reverses itself so the characters fall out of the hole!

    And yes, it's possible that all the information we got about SW is biased, and the Jedi are really evil dictators and the Sith are noble freedom fighters. But again, this sudden reversal has to be hinted and forshadowed somehow. Maybe we're told that everything we read was written by Jedi, and includes mention of how the Jedi nobly disposed of defenseless evil widows clutching children while the Sith tried to stop them? But if the author doesn't hint anything like that, well it'd be like reaching the end of Episode III, after Anakin betrays the Jedi and turns to the Dark Side and slaughters the children in the Temple, and ending with "oh by the way the Jedi were really evil all along, so Anakin did the right thing. Thank you, good night". I'm sure you can see how that's a betrayal of the storyline and cheats the readers.

    Richy on
    sig.gif
  • BobCescaBobCesca Is a girl Birmingham, UKRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    flashbacking to the mid-90s is so fun :P

    (*listening to early Radiohead*)

    BobCesca on
  • JustinSane07JustinSane07 Really, stupid? Brockton__BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    Aldo wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    I just read through some pages of the Old Republic MMO thread and apparently people are outraged that there will be jedis in their game. Also, Justinsane claims he finishes 40 hour games in one week.

    I think it takes me a few months to finish a 40 hour game, assuming I don't start over half way through because I forgot what I was doing.

    I beat KOTOR twice in a week and it's a 25 hour game.

    And the TOR MMO thread is a bit retarded. People are arguing about how powerful Jedi should be in context of lore (when really, Jedi are as powerful as the plot dictates they be) and not in terms of game balance.

    Do you just play a lot or just play fast?

    And yea, that's the stupidest thing, people are already complaining that jedis will be overpowered. The game isn't even in alpha testing yet. :|

    Both, really. I can marathon from the time I get home (4:30) to the time I go to bed (midnight) on the same game and not even notice. Because I only work 9-5 and have no other commitments, I have a lot of evening time to do stuff.

    But I'm also fast at this stuff. I hate when games limit the pace I can move towards the end with needless bullshit. Good example, sticking with KOTOR, is the turrett minigame they "randomly" force you into. Fuckkkk you, I don't want to shoot fighters down with this slow ass fucking turrett. I just want to get to the next planet so I can kill some mans. It's completely pointless garbage.

    JustinSane07 on
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Aldo wrote: »
    Shit, now I'm wondering how a jedi holds up against old fashioned bullets.

    The only way is if their sabers somehow just melt bullets into nothingness.

    Still, something like a vulcan cannon would utterly shred them, simply too many rounds in the air I would imagine.

    Inquisitor on
  • stiliststilist Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    The Holy Grail has an extended universe too, but nobody seems to be particularly bothered by the drastic textual disagreements.

    stilist on
    I poop things on my site and twitter
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    BobCesca wrote: »
    flashbacking to the mid-90s is so fun :P

    (*listening to early Radiohead*)

    feels old

    nexuscrawler on
  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Well that part of Half-Life 2 was significantly less boring

    Elendil on
  • BobCescaBobCesca Is a girl Birmingham, UKRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    BobCesca wrote: »
    flashbacking to the mid-90s is so fun :P

    (*listening to early Radiohead*)

    feels old

    I know. I was 12 when Pablo Honey first came out, and must have been about 14 when I got into Radiohead (around the time "The Bends" was released).

    BobCesca on
  • descdesc Goretexing to death Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Ha ha, you guys thought you could avoid the obi won vs. darth vader thread but you got tricked into being meganerds in [chat] instead.

    desc on
  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    Elendil wrote: »
    Well that part of Half-Life 2 was significantly less boring

    First of all, fufufufufufu.

    Second, which part?

    Honk on
    PSN: Honkalot
  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Honk wrote: »
    Elendil wrote: »
    Well that part of Half-Life 2 was significantly less boring

    First of all, fufufufufufu.

    Second, which part?
    Ravenholm

    Elendil on
  • descdesc Goretexing to death Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Elendil wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    Elendil wrote: »
    Well that part of Half-Life 2 was significantly less boring

    First of all, fufufufufufu.

    Second, which part?
    Ravenholm

    Did you like how they wrap up the saw blades, fuel canisters, and zombies coming through a doorway into a little giftwrapped package for you?

    desc on
  • stiliststilist Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    And I don't see why the viewer/reader needs an indication that the story is a lie--if your story is meant to have some level of realism, why should I expect the narrator to betraythe tale on the last page?

    Supposing, as you say, that the Jedi are evil, it would make far more sense if the films or whatever material they're based in would maintain the ruse throughout. They would evidently be propaganda, and propaganda has no interest in undermining itself or that which it advocates.

    Ps: it's hopefully clear by now that my comment about nerds has not derogatory; since I'm doing the see thing myself.

    stilist on
    I poop things on my site and twitter
  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    Elendil wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    Elendil wrote: »
    Well that part of Half-Life 2 was significantly less boring

    First of all, fufufufufufu.

    Second, which part?
    Ravenholm

    Yes, that one is quite awesome. Slightly more awesome than the rest of Half-Life 2. I do not understand how you can think anything about Half-Life 2 is boring.

    I guess your opinion is simply bad, whereas mine is correct.

    Honk on
    PSN: Honkalot
  • stiliststilist Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    desc wrote: »
    Ha ha, you guys thought you could avoid the obi won vs. darth vader thread but you got tricked into being meganerds in [chat] instead.

    MeTanerds, please. :p

    stilist on
    I poop things on my site and twitter
  • stiliststilist Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Richy: it seems you'll accept fiction as reality only if you can consider it as fiction.

    stilist on
    I poop things on my site and twitter
  • stiliststilist Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Or something.

    stilist on
    I poop things on my site and twitter
  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Honk wrote: »
    Elendil wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    Elendil wrote: »
    Well that part of Half-Life 2 was significantly less boring

    First of all, fufufufufufu.

    Second, which part?
    Ravenholm

    Yes, that one is quite awesome. Slightly more awesome than the rest of Half-Life 2. I do not understand how you can think anything about Half-Life 2 is boring.

    I guess your opinion is simply bad, whereas mine is correct.
    last night I spent like 40 minutes zipping around a series of gray and brown tunnels in a boat with some difficulty making right turns

    Elendil on
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  • JustinSane07JustinSane07 Really, stupid? Brockton__BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    Shit, now I'm wondering how a jedi holds up against old fashioned bullets.

    The only way is if their sabers somehow just melt bullets into nothingness.

    Still, something like a vulcan cannon would utterly shred them, simply too many rounds in the air I would imagine.

    This happens at the end of Ep. III when Ki-Adi Mundi is killed. The guy with the tall head. He can't deflect all the blaster fire because there's too much of it.

    And according to your typical EU bullshit, slug rounds were an excellent method of killing Jedi because lightsabers can't stop them.

    JustinSane07 on
  • stiliststilist Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I would say Elendil's criticism of hl2 is also relevant because the player is forced to experience at least some of the tedium present in what we percive as an authentic universe, rather than constantly being presented with opponents as in many videogames.

    Edited for accuracy.

    stilist on
    I poop things on my site and twitter
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  • BobCescaBobCesca Is a girl Birmingham, UKRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I think the real question is why isn't everyone wearing shield belts?

    'cos they attract the worms and drive them into a frenzy.



    FakeEDIT: shit. wrong sci-fi extravaganza. carry on.

    BobCesca on
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  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Elendil wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    Elendil wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    Elendil wrote: »
    Well that part of Half-Life 2 was significantly less boring

    First of all, fufufufufufu.

    Second, which part?
    Ravenholm

    Yes, that one is quite awesome. Slightly more awesome than the rest of Half-Life 2. I do not understand how you can think anything about Half-Life 2 is boring.

    I guess your opinion is simply bad, whereas mine is correct.
    last night I spent like 40 minutes zipping around a series of gray and brown tunnels in a boat with some difficulty making right turns
    The fan boat section actually makes me motion sick.

    matt has a problem on
    nibXTE7.png
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  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I'd say my main complaint with the game are that it has these puzzles which are intended, I suppose, to make the game feel less linear than most shooters, but the game ends up being exactly as linear as every other FPS, just with more wandering around trying to figure out where the game wants you to go.

    The puzzles are really contrived and artificial, too, which doesn't help.

    Elendil on
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Elendil wrote: »
    I'd say my main complaint with the game are that it has these puzzles which are intended, I suppose, to make the game feel less linear than most shooters, but the game ends up being exactly as linear as every other FPS, just with more wandering around trying to figure out where the game wants you to go.

    The puzzles are really contrived and artificial, too, which doesn't help.
    I think they're mostly in to showcase what the engine can do, actually. Most of them boil down to 'push object X on button Y' anyway.

    Aldo on
  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    The only part I didn't like was having to ride the dumb hanging metal coffin/cocoon thing towards the end. If ever there was a time for a time-condensed cutsceen, that was it.

    matt has a problem on
    nibXTE7.png
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator, Administrator admin
    edited May 2009
    That should be another rule of games: if there's water, it should be pristine and beautiful. It needs to make me want to swim in it. I don't go through escapism to experience muddy brown water, or sewage or sludge.

    Play STALKER! The water is squeaky clean!

    Also, radioactive.

    Echo on
  • GigatonGigaton Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    BobCesca wrote: »
    I think the real question is why isn't everyone wearing shield belts?

    'cos they attract the worms and drive them into a frenzy.



    FakeEDIT: shit. wrong sci-fi extravaganza. carry on.
    Dune was fucking awesome about shields. Dune shields are badass shields because they form a huge part of why stuff works in that world the way it does. Because shields are pretty badass anyway and would obviously have huge ramifications.

    It's been years since I've read any Dune books, but that was the one where shooting an active shield would cause a huge nuclear-scale explosion or something? Or is that a different series?

    Gigaton on
  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Aldo wrote: »
    Elendil wrote: »
    I'd say my main complaint with the game are that it has these puzzles which are intended, I suppose, to make the game feel less linear than most shooters, but the game ends up being exactly as linear as every other FPS, just with more wandering around trying to figure out where the game wants you to go.

    The puzzles are really contrived and artificial, too, which doesn't help.
    I think they're mostly in to showcase what the engine can do, actually. Most of them boil down to 'push object X on button Y' anyway.
    My favorite ones are those that can only be attributed to divine intervention

    Gordon gets stuck in a real pickle, only for some ridiculously unlikely occurrence to blow open a grate/give him a ramp to freeeeedooooom

    Elendil on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator, Administrator admin
    edited May 2009
    Gigaton wrote: »
    It's been years since I've read any Dune books, but that was the one where shooting an active shield would cause a huge nuclear-scale explosion or something? Or is that a different series?

    Lasgun + shield = kaboom.

    Echo on
  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    Yeah the boat sucked.

    Boat was excellent, stop being wrong.
    Car was good.

    Yes.
    Ep 2 car is great.

    Yes.

    Honk on
    PSN: Honkalot
  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Elendil wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    Elendil wrote: »
    I'd say my main complaint with the game are that it has these puzzles which are intended, I suppose, to make the game feel less linear than most shooters, but the game ends up being exactly as linear as every other FPS, just with more wandering around trying to figure out where the game wants you to go.

    The puzzles are really contrived and artificial, too, which doesn't help.
    I think they're mostly in to showcase what the engine can do, actually. Most of them boil down to 'push object X on button Y' anyway.
    My favorite ones are those that can only be attributed to divine intervention

    Gordon gets stuck in a real pickle, only for some ridiculously unlikely occurrence to blow open a grate/give him a ramp to freeeeedooooom
    Perhaps he exists in a dimension where Rube Goldberg is The Creator.

    matt has a problem on
    nibXTE7.png
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  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Also, the car blows donkey dick when it comes to trying to get the Little Rocket Man achievement. Seriously, the thing has absolutely no friction to keep the gnome from sliding everywhere. This is made even more impossible when you're under attack while trying to drive.

    I actually completed it, got the gnome to the rocket and finished the game, only to realize that I'd forgotten to close the door on the rocket. So I get to do it all over again.

    matt has a problem on
    nibXTE7.png
  • GigatonGigaton Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Echo wrote: »
    Gigaton wrote: »
    It's been years since I've read any Dune books, but that was the one where shooting an active shield would cause a huge nuclear-scale explosion or something? Or is that a different series?

    Lasgun + shield = kaboom.

    Cool, I really need to reread the first two or three. After that they got seriously fuckweird.

    Also, how come nobody told me how completely awesome Wonderella is? The writing and dialogue for that comic is pure genius.

    Gigaton on
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This discussion has been closed.