I am 98% confident that, within my first few minutes of the game, I will walk into an enemy about which I was fully aware and actively attempting to avoid. By half an hour in, this will not be happening.
I've learned not to judge how easy a game is to play by the spastic flailings of neophytes.
Kupi on
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
7 minutes of terribad gameplay? I was 4 minutes in and didn't see a single example of the player having trouble with the controls or anything that looked unenjoyable.
I watched the rest and saw maybe one example of something cheap on the game's part. The dude didn't even die, I think the amount he got hit and the way he learned from it was completely appropriate for a Metroid game. In fact I wouldn't be surprised at all to die the first time on a miniboss like that.
Eh, it's not so much looking for reasons to hate as 'this game could be so much better'.
I mean, I think the game will be fine. I just don't think it will be great. Which kind of matches my opinion of prime after beating it. It was fine. Not great. Dunno about the sequels, the first wasn't good enough to tempt me buying them, but yeah. Super Metriod was great. It would be nice if this was great too, but really I haven't felt any of the Metroid games have hit that same level as Super did all those years ago. Hell, I can STILL go back and play Super and love it.
Samus' back story has always been... simple. I just want to throw something out here to everyone dreading the expanded details. Particularily those concerned about the cut scenes. Are you just worried it will not meet your personal expectations? I mean, this is not pac-man we are talking about here. Samus' has always had a very loose story arc. Should it never be tightened up? How does this affect how the game plays?
Personally, I am looking forward to the new ideas put forth in this game. I will admit, the new perspective(s)/controls have me worried, but so did Prime and that game is like a pinacle to me. I look forward to being pleasently surprised again.
ShadowBlade on
This world needs a new philosophy. No more, "Could be worse..." I say SHOULD BE BETTER!
As was mentioned earlier, this is just Metroid Prime all over again.
People are looking for reasons to hate this game, whether it makes sense or not.
I'm not sure if that's a fair comparison. Metroid Prime was taking a 2D action game and turning it into a First Person 3D game. That was a big jump and one that could have gone wrong since at the time no one knew who Retro Studios was and the early beta shots honestly looked ugly. At least for me that all changed when they showed final gameplay footage before release.
This on the other hand is more old hat in a sense with some bolted on elements. We know who and what Team Ninja is and has done. The only really things up in the air are the story and what the action bits amount to. It definitely doesn't scream a bold new approach to me.
Nah, I'm kinda looking forward to a new teams vision of Metroid. Retro did all they could with the series, so I'm happy to see them moving on to new things too. Its a win win.
AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
edited August 2010
Just a note.... According to Joystiq Other M has about 2 hours of cut-scenes, and upon completing the game a menu option opens up that allows you to watch them all.
If someone demo'ing a game is bad at it, OH MAN THE CONTROLS MUST SUCK.
If someone demo'ing a game is good at it, OH MAN THE GAME IS TOO EASY NO CHALLENGE.
I'm not surprised to see so much fucking controversy over this game and it isn't even out yet.
I swore the first kid I saw playing the demo was purposely sucking to extend his play time. The kid after him I was starting to think had never held a controller before. I tore through the demo fairly easily.
Side note just restarted MP:C and played until I was nauseous.
Just a note.... According to Joystiq Other M has about 2 hours of cut-scenes, and upon completing the game a menu option opens up that allows you to watch them all.
Well that's two hours with gameplay segments tacked on so it's probably 90 minutes or less of actual cinematics
That's low all things considered.
King Riptor on
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
Nah, I'm kinda looking forward to a new teams vision of Metroid. Retro did all they could with the series, so I'm happy to see them moving on to new things too. Its a win win.
High five.
I think that there is something big here. If Retro was making this game and it was a FPS they would be getting shit for not shaking things up. Like Earthwormadam says, they did all they could do with the Prime series. Lets face it, MP:C was good, but not the best entry in the series. (best controls maybe).
If Team Ninja had made this a FPS, they would be getting shit for doing the same thing Retro did. If it was straight old school, sprite based, 2D sidescroller then people would be pissed and call it a throwback craze cash-in and wonder why it's not a wiiware download.
The cool thing is that something new is happening. I love the fact that Metroid is a series that Nintendo will take chances with. I mean just look at the Zelda series.
(disclaimer: pump the breaks, I like the Zelda series but it has hit quite a rut that it doesn't look to get out of anytime soon.)
brokecracker on
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
If it was straight old school, sprite based, 2D sidescroller then people would be pissed and call it a throwback craze cash-in and wonder why it's not a wiiware download.
Who are these people?
Get me names, addresses, and lists of vulnerable loved ones.
If it was straight old school, sprite based, 2D sidescroller then people would be pissed and call it a throwback craze cash-in and wonder why it's not a wiiware download.
Who are these people?
Get me names, addresses, and lists of vulnerable loved ones.
Agreed. If A Boy and his Blob showed something, is that 2D sprite games can be goddamn beautiful and plenty worth of being their own games, and not "retro minigame for download lolz".
High definition sprites are gorgeous and a lot easier to implement than massive 3D engines, too. Why people have this obsession with making everything 3D "or it's not worth the money, make it 15$ and I'll maybe think about it", I'll never understand.
If it was straight old school, sprite based, 2D sidescroller then people would be pissed and call it a throwback craze cash-in and wonder why it's not a wiiware download.
Who are these people?
Get me names, addresses, and lists of vulnerable loved ones.
Agreed. If A Boy and his Blob showed something, is that 2D sprite games can be goddamn beautiful and plenty worth of being their own games, and not "retro minigame for download lolz".
High definition sprites are gorgeous and a lot easier to implement than massive 3D engines, too. Why people have this obsession with making everything 3D "or it's not worth the money, make it 15$ and I'll maybe think about it", I'll never understand.
Sprites are a bit more expensive and not as mutable down the line during dev as 3D models are.
To answer your last line though, it's because both Sony and MS worked hard to ghettoize 2D or "non graphics wank" 3D games into the miniscule (compared to retail) digital console sales market.
You know that Sony of America pretty much refused to license 2D games for release in the US? The only way you could sell 2D games on PS2 is if they were bundled as a collection, or if you met some other vague conditions. Didn't matter how well it sold elsewhere.
It's been perpetually confusing to me as any developer will tell you that wants to talk about their game's telemetry, HD is still in the minority on 360 and PS3. Online penetration is dismal - only about 20% of the userbase at most has been online. Bungie themselves noted that ODST was pretty much made for all their offline fans, which composes about 70% of the Halo 3 userbase. Microsoft even stopped including HDTV cables with new Xbox 360s, the HD usage on their console is that small.
However, they've dumped tons of money into their console being the 'premium console', the 'HD entertainment' console. Let's require HD on every game (while ignoring developers that you know, it'd help if there was enough RAM there to do that without affecting the game). Let's require 5.1 surround sound on every game, but only ship normal audio cables with the box (and ignore the fact that most people are still playing in stereo).
But besides all the work they've done to bury 2D and non-graphics gaming, NSMB still sold $texas and outsold many of their HD titles.
HD is not moving the market. MS and Sony want you to believe that though.
Sprites are a bit more expensive and not as mutable down the line during dev as 3D models are.
Really? My bad, then. I was under the impression that they were generally cheaper to make, but did have serious mutability problems which made them bothersome for some projects - namely, any change means you have to redraw damn near everything. Well, I learned something today.
To answer your last line though, it's because both Sony and MS worked hard to ghettoize 2D or "non graphics wank" 3D games into the miniscule (compared to retail) digital console sales market.
You know that Sony of America pretty much refused to license 2D games for release in the US? The only way you could sell 2D games on PS2 is if they were bundled as a collection, or if you met some other vague conditions. Didn't matter how well it sold elsewhere.
...I didn't know that. But even not knowing it, I'm not surprised, somehow. Damn it, Sony. I try so hard to not be an anti-fanboy. Stop making it so hard -_-.
How did NIS titles, such as Disgaea, get in then, though? The area maps being 3D managed to be enough to loophole the rule? :P. Or I dunno, Odin's Sphere?
Anyway, yeah, such titles do seem to have got rather ghotto-ized, and it's really sad. As said, ABahB is easily one of the prettiest games this gen, and I'd love to be able to see more like it. A Metroid in well-drawn 2D would be a sight to behold.
Sprites are a bit more expensive and not as mutable down the line during dev as 3D models are.
Really? My bad, then. I was under the impression that they were generally cheaper to make, but did have serious mutability problems which made them bothersome for some projects - namely, any change means you have to redraw damn near everything. Well, I learned something today.
To answer your last line though, it's because both Sony and MS worked hard to ghettoize 2D or "non graphics wank" 3D games into the miniscule (compared to retail) digital console sales market.
You know that Sony of America pretty much refused to license 2D games for release in the US? The only way you could sell 2D games on PS2 is if they were bundled as a collection, or if you met some other vague conditions. Didn't matter how well it sold elsewhere.
...I didn't know that. But even not knowing it, I'm not surprised, somehow. Damn it, Sony. I try so hard to not be an anti-fanboy. Stop making it so hard -_-.
How did NIS titles, such as Disgaea, get in then, though? The area maps being 3D managed to be enough to loophole the rule? :P. Or I dunno, Odin's Sphere?
Anyway, yeah, such titles do seem to have got rather ghotto-ized, and it's really sad. As said, ABahB is easily one of the prettiest games this gen, and I'd love to be able to see more like it. A Metroid in well-drawn 2D would be a sight to behold.
Yep.
It's the same reason the Earthworm Jim remake on PSP was made into ugly 3D instead of an upres of the original sprites - it was a Sony demand.
There were corner cases that got around the blocking, but Sony put a lot of effort into killing the market. Which as I just said before, Nintendo had no problem picking up with NSMB
There were corner cases that got around the blocking, but Sony put a lot of effort into killing the market. Which as I just said before, Nintendo had no problem picking up with NSMB
There were corner cases that got around the blocking, but Sony put a lot of effort into killing the market. Which as I just said before, Nintendo had no problem picking up with NSMB
Which used 3D models.
From a sidescrolling perspective, which means that if it had been a 360 game it would have been released on XBLA and maxed out at around 600,000 units sold instead of 8+ million
Sprites are a bit more expensive and not as mutable down the line during dev as 3D models are.
Really? My bad, then. I was under the impression that they were generally cheaper to make, but did have serious mutability problems which made them bothersome for some projects - namely, any change means you have to redraw damn near everything. Well, I learned something today.
Anyway, yeah, such titles do seem to have got rather ghotto-ized, and it's really sad. As said, ABahB is easily one of the prettiest games this gen, and I'd love to be able to see more like it. A Metroid in well-drawn 2D would be a sight to behold.
[/quote]
From what I've heard it's basically the lack of mutability that leads to the expense. You have to draw each pose and action in several frames instead of just making a model, making a skin, then moving it around how you see fit.
Tofystedeth on
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited August 2010
That's correct Tofystedeth. 3D models are easier to animate because you can take the mesh, attach a skeleton to it, set the bone weights, and just move the bones around to animate it. You don't have to re-model it in every possible pose.
Plus, you can split the work up more easily by having the modeling, texturing, rigging (attaching a skeleton), and animating each done by a separate person, allowing for more work to be done simultaneously.
Agreed. If A Boy and his Blob showed something, is that 2D sprite games can be goddamn beautiful and plenty worth of being their own games, and not "retro minigame for download lolz".
That's probably a bad example, since it, by all accounts, sold like 12 copies worldwide.
Apropos, anyone with a Wii should really consider getting a copy right now; it's a really cool game.
Cherrn on
All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
Incidentally, since Wario Land: Shake It!! (and before, really), I've wanted to see a 2D Metroid which looks like the box/promo art for Super Metroid and Zero Mission.
As for Other M, got to play the E3 demo the other day. Wrote a big, long thing about the experience (if anyone cares/is interested), but the bottom line was that the setup was not the most flattering, insofar as dealing with seeing the same cutscenes repeatedly went. Specifically, the inability to skip them.
But when you finally get to play the game, and for more than what amounts to a tutorial or semi-quicktime event? It's a blast to play, and the newer previews, such as the one from 1UP, have me really excited for the game.
I just don't look forward to putting up with those cutscenes again. I mean, I get that they're trying to push the story, and I didn't find them so bad the first time... I just don't want to have to watch the whole thing over and over and over again.
LBD_Nytetrayn on
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I just don't look forward to putting up with those cutscenes again. I mean, I get that they're trying to push the story, and I didn't find them so bad the first time... I just don't want to have to watch the whole thing over and over and over again.
My problem with the cutscenes isn't so much the length, (they just seemed a lot longer by the 3rd time I had to sit through them), but the content.
Samus was always a kind of post feminist character. We were shocked to learn at the end of Metroid that she was female, but, with in the Metroid universe, it wasn't shocking. She was never treated as anything special because she was a female bounty hunter. She was special because she was the best bounty hunter.
But the story line in Other M, all of a sudden she's GI Jane trying to prove her self in a male dominated military. Granted it's flashbacks, but still, this super advanced space society is suddenly misogynistic, as if that's the only way to give Samus depth. It's a lazy cliched storyline, from what I've seen so far.
I just don't look forward to putting up with those cutscenes again. I mean, I get that they're trying to push the story, and I didn't find them so bad the first time... I just don't want to have to watch the whole thing over and over and over again.
My problem with the cutscenes isn't so much the length, (they just seemed a lot longer by the 3rd time I had to sit through them), but the content.
Samus was always a kind of post feminist character. We were shocked to learn at the end of Metroid that she was female, but, with in the Metroid universe, it wasn't shocking. She was never treated as anything special because she was a female bounty hunter. She was special because she was the best bounty hunter.
But the story line in Other M, all of a sudden she's GI Jane trying to prove her self in a male dominated military. Granted it's flashbacks, but still, this super advanced space society is suddenly misogynistic, as if that's the only way to give Samus depth. It's a lazy cliched storyline, from what I've seen so far.
Wait wait wait.....
It's sounds to me like you're making an awful lot of assumptions. Unless you've seen a lot more than I have, what we've seen of the story has nothing to do with Samus trying to prove herself. Something happened that caused her to leave the military and it create a rift between her and her old mentor. She's an outsider because she went against Adam, not because she's a woman.
I just don't look forward to putting up with those cutscenes again. I mean, I get that they're trying to push the story, and I didn't find them so bad the first time... I just don't want to have to watch the whole thing over and over and over again.
My problem with the cutscenes isn't so much the length, (they just seemed a lot longer by the 3rd time I had to sit through them), but the content.
Samus was always a kind of post feminist character. We were shocked to learn at the end of Metroid that she was female, but, with in the Metroid universe, it wasn't shocking. She was never treated as anything special because she was a female bounty hunter. She was special because she was the best bounty hunter.
But the story line in Other M, all of a sudden she's GI Jane trying to prove her self in a male dominated military. Granted it's flashbacks, but still, this super advanced space society is suddenly misogynistic, as if that's the only way to give Samus depth. It's a lazy cliched storyline, from what I've seen so far.
Wait wait wait.....
It's sounds to me like you're making an awful lot of assumptions. Unless you've seen a lot more than I have, what we've seen of the story has nothing to do with Samus trying to prove herself. Something happened that caused her to leave the military and it create a rift between her and her old mentor. She's an outsider because she went against Adam, not because she's a woman.
I don't know what you've seen, but I played the demo at comic con, in one of the cutscenes
It flashes back to training and talks about how Adam would always uses the phrase "any objections ladies?" and Samus, the only woman in her unit, would always thumbs down the plan as a matter of feminist defiance or something.
I just don't look forward to putting up with those cutscenes again. I mean, I get that they're trying to push the story, and I didn't find them so bad the first time... I just don't want to have to watch the whole thing over and over and over again.
My problem with the cutscenes isn't so much the length, (they just seemed a lot longer by the 3rd time I had to sit through them), but the content.
Samus was always a kind of post feminist character. We were shocked to learn at the end of Metroid that she was female, but, with in the Metroid universe, it wasn't shocking. She was never treated as anything special because she was a female bounty hunter. She was special because she was the best bounty hunter.
But the story line in Other M, all of a sudden she's GI Jane trying to prove her self in a male dominated military. Granted it's flashbacks, but still, this super advanced space society is suddenly misogynistic, as if that's the only way to give Samus depth. It's a lazy cliched storyline, from what I've seen so far.
Wait wait wait.....
It's sounds to me like you're making an awful lot of assumptions. Unless you've seen a lot more than I have, what we've seen of the story has nothing to do with Samus trying to prove herself. Something happened that caused her to leave the military and it create a rift between her and her old mentor. She's an outsider because she went against Adam, not because she's a woman.
I don't know what you've seen, but I played the demo at comic con, in one of the cutscenes
It flashes back to training and talks about how Adam would always uses the phrase "any objections ladies?" and Samus, the only woman in her unit, would always thumbs down the plan as a matter of feminist defiance or something.
Yeah . . . That's how Drill seargents or COls tend to talk
King Riptor on
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Maybe these guys are just bad at the game... but I can't help but feel analog stick control + wiimote aiming would make this game 1000% better.
Of course, no way to know for sure until I get my hands on it.
I've learned not to judge how easy a game is to play by the spastic flailings of neophytes.
I watched the rest and saw maybe one example of something cheap on the game's part. The dude didn't even die, I think the amount he got hit and the way he learned from it was completely appropriate for a Metroid game. In fact I wouldn't be surprised at all to die the first time on a miniboss like that.
People are looking for reasons to hate this game, whether it makes sense or not.
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I mean, I think the game will be fine. I just don't think it will be great. Which kind of matches my opinion of prime after beating it. It was fine. Not great. Dunno about the sequels, the first wasn't good enough to tempt me buying them, but yeah. Super Metriod was great. It would be nice if this was great too, but really I haven't felt any of the Metroid games have hit that same level as Super did all those years ago. Hell, I can STILL go back and play Super and love it.
After Corruption I do not
Personally, I am looking forward to the new ideas put forth in this game. I will admit, the new perspective(s)/controls have me worried, but so did Prime and that game is like a pinacle to me. I look forward to being pleasently surprised again.
I'm not sure if that's a fair comparison. Metroid Prime was taking a 2D action game and turning it into a First Person 3D game. That was a big jump and one that could have gone wrong since at the time no one knew who Retro Studios was and the early beta shots honestly looked ugly. At least for me that all changed when they showed final gameplay footage before release.
This on the other hand is more old hat in a sense with some bolted on elements. We know who and what Team Ninja is and has done. The only really things up in the air are the story and what the action bits amount to. It definitely doesn't scream a bold new approach to me.
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If someone demo'ing a game is good at it, OH MAN THE GAME IS TOO EASY NO CHALLENGE.
I'm not surprised to see so much fucking controversy over this game and it isn't even out yet.
I swore the first kid I saw playing the demo was purposely sucking to extend his play time. The kid after him I was starting to think had never held a controller before. I tore through the demo fairly easily.
Side note just restarted MP:C and played until I was nauseous.
Steam ID: Good Life
Well that's two hours with gameplay segments tacked on so it's probably 90 minutes or less of actual cinematics
That's low all things considered.
High five.
I think that there is something big here. If Retro was making this game and it was a FPS they would be getting shit for not shaking things up. Like Earthwormadam says, they did all they could do with the Prime series. Lets face it, MP:C was good, but not the best entry in the series. (best controls maybe).
If Team Ninja had made this a FPS, they would be getting shit for doing the same thing Retro did. If it was straight old school, sprite based, 2D sidescroller then people would be pissed and call it a throwback craze cash-in and wonder why it's not a wiiware download.
The cool thing is that something new is happening. I love the fact that Metroid is a series that Nintendo will take chances with. I mean just look at the Zelda series.
(disclaimer: pump the breaks, I like the Zelda series but it has hit quite a rut that it doesn't look to get out of anytime soon.)
http://www.destructoid.com/getting-that-retro-feeling-with-metroid-other-m-180674.phtml
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Who are these people?
Get me names, addresses, and lists of vulnerable loved ones.
Agreed. If A Boy and his Blob showed something, is that 2D sprite games can be goddamn beautiful and plenty worth of being their own games, and not "retro minigame for download lolz".
High definition sprites are gorgeous and a lot easier to implement than massive 3D engines, too. Why people have this obsession with making everything 3D "or it's not worth the money, make it 15$ and I'll maybe think about it", I'll never understand.
Sprites are a bit more expensive and not as mutable down the line during dev as 3D models are.
To answer your last line though, it's because both Sony and MS worked hard to ghettoize 2D or "non graphics wank" 3D games into the miniscule (compared to retail) digital console sales market.
You know that Sony of America pretty much refused to license 2D games for release in the US? The only way you could sell 2D games on PS2 is if they were bundled as a collection, or if you met some other vague conditions. Didn't matter how well it sold elsewhere.
It's been perpetually confusing to me as any developer will tell you that wants to talk about their game's telemetry, HD is still in the minority on 360 and PS3. Online penetration is dismal - only about 20% of the userbase at most has been online. Bungie themselves noted that ODST was pretty much made for all their offline fans, which composes about 70% of the Halo 3 userbase. Microsoft even stopped including HDTV cables with new Xbox 360s, the HD usage on their console is that small.
However, they've dumped tons of money into their console being the 'premium console', the 'HD entertainment' console. Let's require HD on every game (while ignoring developers that you know, it'd help if there was enough RAM there to do that without affecting the game). Let's require 5.1 surround sound on every game, but only ship normal audio cables with the box (and ignore the fact that most people are still playing in stereo).
But besides all the work they've done to bury 2D and non-graphics gaming, NSMB still sold $texas and outsold many of their HD titles.
HD is not moving the market. MS and Sony want you to believe that though.
Really? My bad, then. I was under the impression that they were generally cheaper to make, but did have serious mutability problems which made them bothersome for some projects - namely, any change means you have to redraw damn near everything. Well, I learned something today.
...I didn't know that. But even not knowing it, I'm not surprised, somehow. Damn it, Sony. I try so hard to not be an anti-fanboy. Stop making it so hard -_-.
How did NIS titles, such as Disgaea, get in then, though? The area maps being 3D managed to be enough to loophole the rule? :P. Or I dunno, Odin's Sphere?
Anyway, yeah, such titles do seem to have got rather ghotto-ized, and it's really sad. As said, ABahB is easily one of the prettiest games this gen, and I'd love to be able to see more like it. A Metroid in well-drawn 2D would be a sight to behold.
Yep.
It's the same reason the Earthworm Jim remake on PSP was made into ugly 3D instead of an upres of the original sprites - it was a Sony demand.
There were corner cases that got around the blocking, but Sony put a lot of effort into killing the market. Which as I just said before, Nintendo had no problem picking up with NSMB
Which used 3D models.
From a sidescrolling perspective, which means that if it had been a 360 game it would have been released on XBLA and maxed out at around 600,000 units sold instead of 8+ million
I think it goes beyond that. Lots of people really *like* NES style controls. Probably depends on what you grew up on.
From what I've heard it's basically the lack of mutability that leads to the expense. You have to draw each pose and action in several frames instead of just making a model, making a skin, then moving it around how you see fit.
Whereas spritework, you'd have to spend money on reanimating every single frame.
That's probably a bad example, since it, by all accounts, sold like 12 copies worldwide.
Apropos, anyone with a Wii should really consider getting a copy right now; it's a really cool game.
As for Other M, got to play the E3 demo the other day. Wrote a big, long thing about the experience (if anyone cares/is interested), but the bottom line was that the setup was not the most flattering, insofar as dealing with seeing the same cutscenes repeatedly went. Specifically, the inability to skip them.
But when you finally get to play the game, and for more than what amounts to a tutorial or semi-quicktime event? It's a blast to play, and the newer previews, such as the one from 1UP, have me really excited for the game.
I just don't look forward to putting up with those cutscenes again. I mean, I get that they're trying to push the story, and I didn't find them so bad the first time... I just don't want to have to watch the whole thing over and over and over again.
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
My problem with the cutscenes isn't so much the length, (they just seemed a lot longer by the 3rd time I had to sit through them), but the content.
But the story line in Other M, all of a sudden she's GI Jane trying to prove her self in a male dominated military. Granted it's flashbacks, but still, this super advanced space society is suddenly misogynistic, as if that's the only way to give Samus depth. It's a lazy cliched storyline, from what I've seen so far.
Steam ID: Good Life
Wait wait wait.....
I don't know what you've seen, but I played the demo at comic con, in one of the cutscenes
Steam ID: Good Life
Yeah . . . That's how Drill seargents or COls tend to talk