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New Super Mario Bros Wii - Out Now. 15

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    LBD_NytetraynLBD_Nytetrayn TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Jasoco wrote: »
    You'll notice there's never been a re-release of that version, either, yet numerous Mario re-releases. And with all the crossover before and after...

    Wouldn't "Super Mario Advance" count? I mean it was the first game they decided to "Advance" when they put them on the GBA.

    I mean there's never been a re-release of DDP that I know of. Meanwhile, there's Super Mario Bros. 2, which was released in Japan (who already had DDP) as Super Mario USA, then the upgrade in Super Mario All-Stars, the further upgrade in Super Mario Advance, and then the Virtual Console release.
    RockinX wrote: »
    LBD, that last pic in your article looks as if it had been drawn by Francisco Ibañez. Awesome stuff.

    Hah, thanks. I wish I knew who that was, but it came from the Super Mario Bros. 2 strategy guide from Nintendo Power.

    I wish I'd had time to revise or do something more for SMB2's 20th anniversary in October last year; I think it snuck right by me. I do so love that game, though. I wonder if I should still do something, or if it's simply too late.

    And to address the Advance discussion, SMA is perhaps the most changed of the lot in bare-bones fashion, i.e. no accessories/cards/etc., and they made it more Mario-like than ever before.

    LBD_Nytetrayn on
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    RockinXRockinX Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    RockinX wrote: »
    LBD, that last pic in your article looks as if it had been drawn by Francisco Ibañez. Awesome stuff.

    Hah, thanks. I wish I knew who that was, but it came from the Super Mario Bros. 2 strategy guide from Nintendo Power.

    Nintendo Power had great art, it seems! Francisco Ibáñez is the creator of one of the best comics in the world, Mortadelo & Filemón.

    RockinX on
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    LBD_NytetraynLBD_Nytetrayn TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Beware the greatest danger ever known: The Koopa Kids!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLXIhpZeNco

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4NuJEBgS_o&feature=player_embedded

    Couldn't let this topic die so quickly, so I figured this might be just the thing to revive it, at least briefly.

    LBD_Nytetrayn on
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    JishianJishian ◥▶◀◤ Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    So in the top video, small Mario is shooting fireballs, even after dying. Is that something they are adding for boss fights?

    I love the koopa kids. However Nintendo hates me and will probably have baby versions of them in there somewhere.

    Jishian on
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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Koopa kids! Hell yeah!

    Undead Scottsman on
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Jishian wrote: »
    So in the top video, small Mario is shooting fireballs, even after dying. Is that something they are adding for boss fights?

    I love the koopa kids. However Nintendo hates me and will probably have baby versions of them in there somewhere.
    ...Luigi is the one shooting fireballs.

    Fencingsax on
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    SaddlerSaddler Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    From Yahoo/USA Today:
    In an exclusive interview conducted by USA Today, Shigeru Miyamoto recently announced that "demo play" will be included in this years upcoming New Super Mario Bros. Wii.

    "In New Super Mario Bros. Wii, if a player is experiencing an area of difficulty, this will allow them to clear troubled areas and take over when they're ready" confirmed Miyamoto, through his translator. "And yes, we're looking into this for future games, too" Miyamoto says.

    From what we know of it, the concept of "demo play" is to allow players who find a particular level too difficult, the option of pausing the game and allowing the game to take over and complete the level for them. If they wish to continue, all they have to do is press any button to resume gameplay. The idea proposes to eliminate the need for a strategy guide or internet walkthrough, and will allow consumers who are young or new to video games to find an easier entry point into a game experience.

    New Super Mario Bros. Wii is expected this holiday season, with "demo play" included.

    This makes me wonder if there will be CPU controlled players playing along with you in single player mode.

    It also makes me wonder if this is going to be a standard feature in Nintendo-developed games.

    Saddler on
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Isn't this what that one patent covers?

    Couscous on
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    BedlamBedlam Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    So if you find playing games too hard, The games will play themselves for you?

    And how exactly is that fun?

    Bedlam on
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    el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Bedlam wrote: »
    So if you find playing games too hard, The games will play themselves for you?

    And how exactly is that fun?

    It's a solution for ("casual") players who are stumped with a puzzle or a section of a level - being frustrated isn't fun, this feature shows them how to solve it, I don't see a problem.

    el_vicio on
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    RockinXRockinX Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Now little kids who can't complete a level won't have to resort to asking an adult to play the game for them.

    RockinX on
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    Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Meh, just seems so cheap. A better solution would be to buy or play a slot-machine at any time using the coins or the points you've gained in the level to get power-ups at any time. Can't make a jump? Lose your points and get the flying cap. Simple.

    Endless_Serpents on
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    BedlamBedlam Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    el_vicio wrote: »
    Bedlam wrote: »
    So if you find playing games too hard, The games will play themselves for you?

    And how exactly is that fun?

    It's a solution for ("casual") players who are stumped with a puzzle or a section of a level - being frustrated isn't fun, this feature shows them how to solve it, I don't see a problem.
    Its an interactive medium that dosent require any interactivity.

    Not that Im going to try and stop them or anything it just seems to cheapen the experience a great deal.

    Bedlam on
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    el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Bedlam wrote: »
    el_vicio wrote: »
    Bedlam wrote: »
    So if you find playing games too hard, The games will play themselves for you?

    And how exactly is that fun?

    It's a solution for ("casual") players who are stumped with a puzzle or a section of a level - being frustrated isn't fun, this feature shows them how to solve it, I don't see a problem.
    Its an interactive medium that dosent require any interactivity.

    Not that Im going to try and stop them or anything it just seems to cheapen the experience a great deal.

    Not necessarily, no.
    Keep in mind, it's a feature you don't have to use - and if someone is stumped with a puzzle,say, and he/she's so frustrated that he/she look up the walkthrough (maybe a video on youtube) for a solution, which is then basically just repoduced, isn't that essentially the same action ?

    el_vicio on
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    BedlamBedlam Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    el_vicio wrote: »
    Bedlam wrote: »
    el_vicio wrote: »
    Bedlam wrote: »
    So if you find playing games too hard, The games will play themselves for you?

    And how exactly is that fun?

    It's a solution for ("casual") players who are stumped with a puzzle or a section of a level - being frustrated isn't fun, this feature shows them how to solve it, I don't see a problem.
    Its an interactive medium that dosent require any interactivity.

    Not that Im going to try and stop them or anything it just seems to cheapen the experience a great deal.

    Not necessarily, no.
    Keep in mind, it's a feature you don't have to use - and if someone is stumped with a puzzle,say, and he/she's so frustrated that he/she look up the walkthrough for a solution, which is then basically just repoduced, isn't that essentially the same action ?
    Yes, but I am also against someone playing a game with a walkthrough right next to them.

    The same way I would be disgusted if someone used demo mode the whole way through and then claimed they "beat" the game.

    Bedlam on
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    el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Bedlam wrote: »
    el_vicio wrote: »
    Bedlam wrote: »
    el_vicio wrote: »
    Bedlam wrote: »
    So if you find playing games too hard, The games will play themselves for you?

    And how exactly is that fun?

    It's a solution for ("casual") players who are stumped with a puzzle or a section of a level - being frustrated isn't fun, this feature shows them how to solve it, I don't see a problem.
    Its an interactive medium that dosent require any interactivity.

    Not that Im going to try and stop them or anything it just seems to cheapen the experience a great deal.

    Not necessarily, no.
    Keep in mind, it's a feature you don't have to use - and if someone is stumped with a puzzle,say, and he/she's so frustrated that he/she look up the walkthrough for a solution, which is then basically just repoduced, isn't that essentially the same action ?
    Yes, but I am also against someone playing a game with a walkthrough right next to them.

    The same way I would be disgusted if someone used demo mode the whole way through and then claimed they "beat" the game.

    I see what you mean, but, again, it's up to the player whether he uses the walkthrough/demo mode or not.
    And even if someone beats a game using these features, who gives a shit, seriously.
    edit: to each his own etc

    el_vicio on
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    Dodge AspenDodge Aspen Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Oh shits here we go again. Maybe I should just copy and paste the middle 10 pages of this thread.

    Demo play is in. Some people don't like the idea, others don't care.

    Dodge Aspen on
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    DirtyDirty Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    The only valid reason I can think of for someone to get upset/disgusted over something as trivial as this would be if the we had a Trophy/Achievements system and demo mode would still unlock them. And even then, why give a shit?

    Dirty on
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    el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Oh shits here we go again. Maybe I should just copy and paste the middle 10 pages of this thread.

    Demo play is in. Some people don't like the idea, others don't care.

    Well, my point is, why would anyone care it's in or not?
    Some people just want to breeze through a game no problem, why shouldn't they use the feature?

    If that's more fun for them than trying to solve the situation themselves etc, why shouldn't they - there's no reason to be 'disgusted' by that, my god.

    edit:
    @Dirty yeah seriously, who needs to distinguish/feel better about themselves just because they beat a game "the real way" or because they are "teh hardcorez".It's silly, it's just silly.
    edit": And even if they do (n/c), why should they impose their ideals on others?

    el_vicio on
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    PeewiPeewi Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Did someone go back in time and dig up old posts? I'm certain I've seen this before.

    Peewi on
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    MikeRyuMikeRyu Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I didn't know that they were going to implement the demo mode in this game.

    I think it's a great idea, and I'm really pleased to see that it's real and being introduced now. I hope more games adopt this mode in future.

    MikeRyu on
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    DeathPrawnDeathPrawn Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    We've already had this conversation in the sales thread, and it did not end well.

    We should kill this line of discussion before it goes places. Kill it with fire.

    DeathPrawn on
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    XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    DeathPrawn wrote: »

    We should kill this line of discussion before it goes places. Kill it with fireballs.

    Xagarath on
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    carmofincarmofin Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    stupid casual gamer craze...
    casual gamers should get frustrated halfway through a game and then stop playing, they deserve nothing more.
    its how we all started!

    carmofin on
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    LBD_NytetraynLBD_Nytetrayn TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Saddler wrote: »
    This makes me wonder if there will be CPU controlled players playing along with you in single player mode.

    I'm pretty sure I've seen some videos of people going solo or with two players only so far.
    It also makes me wonder if this is going to be a standard feature in Nintendo-developed games.

    It'll be in some games, but I don't think it will be "standard" in all of them.
    Meh, just seems so cheap. A better solution would be to buy or play a slot-machine at any time using the coins or the points you've gained in the level to get power-ups at any time. Can't make a jump? Lose your points and get the flying cap. Simple.

    That actually sounds like it could be considerably more complex, once you factor in coding, balance, and getting people to understand how it all works.
    Bedlam wrote: »
    Its an interactive medium that dosent require any interactivity.

    Not that Im going to try and stop them or anything it just seems to cheapen the experience a great deal.

    It's not as though it's required. Any gamer worth their salt in the first place will eventually try it themselves after seeing it done right, if they even bother to use the option at all.

    Is it really any cheaper than asking a friend to "do this part for me?"
    Bedlam wrote: »
    The same way I would be disgusted if someone used demo mode the whole way through and then claimed they "beat" the game.

    That's the kicker; from what I've heard, it sounds like you can't save what's been done with demo play, thereby robbing you of the full benefits one would have received if they'd done it themselves. Ergo, it's quite possible that using demo play may not let players have other benefits that they'd have received had they played themselves as well-- such as perhaps the ending.

    Who knows? It could even be something similar to Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, where they have brief snippets that show you what to do, only integrated into a "here and now" context of the game, rather than being a full-on cruise control.

    For example, let's suppose that such a thing were used in Super Mario Bros. 3 on Bowser; it might show you what you need to do up to Bowser breaking the first brick or something, and no more than that.

    We really still have no idea as to just how this thing works exactly, yet.
    Dirty wrote: »
    The only valid reason I can think of for someone to get upset/disgusted over something as trivial as this would be if the we had a Trophy/Achievements system and demo mode would still unlock them. And even then, why give a shit?

    Eh, "beating" the game is one thing, especially given there have been cheats around since forever. I'm sure a number of people have "beaten" Contra with nothing less than the Contra code, and as you say, who gives a shit?

    On the other hand, I can see someone who gathers Achievements and Trophies, actual rewards for actual accomplishments, being upset that what they've done is being undermined. Not that it really applies in this case, but still.

    ...and, now that I'm caught up and people want to kill this line of discussion, I'm ending what I have to say there but to add "let's just wait and see how it actually goes before we raise hell."

    LBD_Nytetrayn on
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    DeathPrawnDeathPrawn Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Xagarath wrote: »
    DeathPrawn wrote: »

    We should kill this line of discussion before it goes places. Kill it with fireballs.

    :^:

    DeathPrawn on
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    toxk_02toxk_02 Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    This happened in the sales thread and no one actually knew how the demo option would work, it was all speculation. Here are the details:
    Nintendo is working on a gameplay system meant to ease the pain of completing a difficult game, without watering it down so much that it turns hardcore gamers off.

    The new system, described in a patent filed by Nintendo Creative Director Miyamoto on June 30, 2008, but made public today, looks to solve the issue of casual gamers losing interest in a game before they complete it, while still maintaining the interest of hardcore gamers.

    The solution would turn a game into a full-length cut scene of sorts, allowing players to jump into and out of the action whenever they wanted. But when played this way, gamers would not be able to save their progress, maintaining the challenge of completing a game without skipping or cheating. It would also allow players to bring up in-game hint videos and skip directly to particular scenes in games.
    It is essentially an in-game video tutorial that requires the user to go back and do it themselves if they want to save their progress.

    toxk_02 on
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    FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    Either way you really should not care or give a shit about how others complete a game.

    As a game developer, you basically have the option of

    1) make it slightly easier at the cost of people complaining that it was easy, but more people get to see your entire creation from beginning to end

    2) make it hard but less people get to see the entire creation. Nothing is more frustrating than talking to someone about your game, you ask them what they thought about a certain event, and they go "yeah I stopped before X_POINT because I couldn't get past it". This is actually why Fable 2 has the death system that it does, because Molyneux wanted everybody to get to the end of the game (but you also get scarred to hell and back and lose half your exp if you just die every minute).

    In short, this is the best of both worlds. They can crank up the difficulty in the games a bit more but allow their interactive guide system to help out other people and keep them playing the game instead of dropping the game and never playing it again.

    I mean in the next Forza, you are allowed to 'rewind' at any time, for any length of time, with no penalties. Know why? Because they acknowledged that people play a 40 lap race, spin out in the last lap and end up in last place and do not want to do it again, just get frustrated, and never play the game again. Allowing rewinding at any time lets people enjoy the game experience -and- not feel like they got screwed.

    tl;dr you fucks are getting mad that you can't fit the games industry in your back pocket anymore so shut the fuck up and stop baaaaawing.

    FyreWulff on
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    el_vicioel_vicio Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Plus, if Mario games are too easy for you, you can always play Asshole Mario.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r86NLwCYXfk&

    el_vicio on
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    XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    So has it been reported that this uses a little motion control yet?
    Wiimote shake for spinjumping, plus some level specific things.

    Xagarath on
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    SageinaRageSageinaRage Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Anyone griping about demo play should go try to beat Leisure Suit Larry 2 without a guide, so they can understand how someone might want to skip certain sections, or get clues on how to beat it.

    SageinaRage on
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    LunkerLunker Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I think the other funny part is that people are complaining about demo play being put into a Mario game. It's not being put into Sin & Punishment 2, for Christ's sake. Games where difficulty is the primary draw for people who love that masochistic sort of gameplay (and trust me, I play enough shmups to know how awesome that can be) will stay exactly the same as they always have.

    Mario's always been about accessibility and has routinely given gamers options to skip things they didn't like. Unless the Cloud from Mario 3 was an affront to hard-core gaming, or the fact that you could finish Mario 64 without getting all 120 stars made you seethe with rage.

    Sorry to keep propping up the discussion, but little is known about New SMB Wii other than "will assuredly be awesome." :-P

    Lunker on
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    lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Anyone griping about demo play should go try to beat the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy text adventure game without a guide, so they can understand how someone might want to skip certain sections, or get clues on how to beat it.

    Fixed that for you. Also I like the idea of that patent applied to text adventures. One letter shows up at a time :)

    lowlylowlycook on
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    TheManiac_614TheManiac_614 Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Anyone griping about demo play should go try to beat Leisure Suit Larry 2 without a guide, so they can understand how someone might want to skip certain sections, or get clues on how to beat it.

    But surely this is what GameFAQs is for so this may be a poor example.


    Wanting to skip some of the shines in SMS though...

    TheManiac_614 on
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    tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Anyone griping about demo play should go try to beat the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy text adventure game without a guide, so they can understand how someone might want to skip certain sections, or get clues on how to beat it.

    Fixed that for you. Also I like the idea of that patent applied to text adventures. One letter shows up at a time :)

    Any of the Kings Quest games have that bullshit too.

    "Oh, you didn't do this thing 3 hours ago? Too bad, you die!"

    tsmvengy on
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    SaddlerSaddler Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Xagarath wrote: »
    So has it been reported that this uses a little motion control yet?
    Wiimote shake for spinjumping, plus some level specific things.

    Just as well that spinjumping is being mapped to the shaking motion, because it will be good to have this game playable with just the Wii remote. I'm hoping for multiple control schemes, though.

    Saddler on
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    JONJONAUGJONJONAUG Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    tsmvengy wrote: »
    Anyone griping about demo play should go try to beat the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy text adventure game without a guide, so they can understand how someone might want to skip certain sections, or get clues on how to beat it.

    Fixed that for you. Also I like the idea of that patent applied to text adventures. One letter shows up at a time :)

    Any of the Kings Quest games have that bullshit too.

    "Oh, you didn't do this thing 3 hours ago? Too bad, you die!"

    Shit like that is really what nearly killed adventure games. I really like the ones that are coming out now that have all the fun and humor of older ones without the bullshit difficulty.

    JONJONAUG on
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    DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    el_vicio wrote: »
    Plus, if Mario games are too easy for you, you can always play Asshole Mario.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r86NLwCYXfk&

    The solution is clearly string theory.

    http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1800762

    Delzhand on
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    MundaneSoulMundaneSoul fight fighter Daehan MingukRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I am foaming at the mouth so hard for this game.

    MundaneSoul on
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    LBD_NytetraynLBD_Nytetrayn TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Saddler wrote: »
    Xagarath wrote: »
    So has it been reported that this uses a little motion control yet?
    Wiimote shake for spinjumping, plus some level specific things.

    Just as well that spinjumping is being mapped to the shaking motion, because it will be good to have this game playable with just the Wii remote. I'm hoping for multiple control schemes, though.

    Same, I wouldn't mind testing the waters with other control options. Especially as I hear that pressing the A-- er, 2 button particularly hard to jump can trigger the spin accidentally.

    LBD_Nytetrayn on
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