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Obama Abroad III: Now With More Landmark Speeches to the Muslim World

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Well, if Congressional Dems don't chicken out, he's already taken a pretty hard line with Israel re: stop settlements, and this time we actually mean it. The key there is the Congressional support. Bush the Greater (I like moniker's formulation) tried the same tactic but AIPAC got Congress to tell him to fuck off. They've apparently decided to try to primary Donna Edwards (who is awesome) as an example to the progressive caucus.

    enlightenedbum on
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  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Richy wrote: »
    I just read the speech transcript linked in the OP. Wow. That was an amazing speech.

    It's really a very different thing to watching it though, he really is an amazing orator.

    Tastyfish on
  • templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    I just read the speech transcript linked in the OP. Wow. That was an amazing speech.

    It's really a very different thing to watching it though, he really is an amazing orator.

    It's funny, when I read it I can hear his voice, and it's a moving speech even in my head.

    Do I love Obama too much (Y/N)?

    templewulf on
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  • EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    templewulf wrote: »
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    I just read the speech transcript linked in the OP. Wow. That was an amazing speech.

    It's really a very different thing to watching it though, he really is an amazing orator.

    It's funny, when I read it I can hear his voice, and it's a moving speech even in my head.

    Do I love Obama too much (Y/N)?

    That's just America telling you she loves you, son.

    Eddy on
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    and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
  • StuffGuyStuffGuy Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Eddy wrote: »
    templewulf wrote: »
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    I just read the speech transcript linked in the OP. Wow. That was an amazing speech.

    It's really a very different thing to watching it though, he really is an amazing orator.

    It's funny, when I read it I can hear his voice, and it's a moving speech even in my head.

    Do I love Obama too much (Y/N)?

    That's just America telling you she loves you, son.

    Ive been having these awesome occurences where I get around to reading transcripts of Obama's speeches just before 5pm, resulting in Retreat starting while im reading. Unfortunatly this speech was a bit too long for the National Anthem to start trailing off right as Im finishing the conclusion, but its happened before.

    StuffGuy on
  • ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2009
    Wait, did Obama seriously invite people from the terrorist organization of Hamas to come and talk at the White House?

    You know, when looking at the big picture, I get the sense that Obama is the kind of guy that likes to live dangerously.



    The fundies saying Obama is a secret muslim just because he knows a few words out of the Koran is just as ridiculous as people who think he's a secret atheist because he mentioned atheists a few times. Don't you think?

    Obs on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Wait, did Obama seriously invite people from the terrorist organization of Hamas to come and talk at the White House?

    You know, when looking at the big picture, I get the sense that Obama is the kind of guy that likes to live dangerously.

    Umm... like, the guys from Hamas are going to blow themselves up in the White House?

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Here's the entirety of Hamas mentions in today's speech:
    Now is the time for Palestinians to focus on what they can build. The Palestinian Authority must develop its capacity to govern, with institutions that serve the needs of its people. Hamas does have support among some Palestinians, but they also have responsibilities. To play a role in fulfilling Palestinian aspirations, and to unify the Palestinian people, Hamas must put an end to violence, recognize past agreements, and recognize Israel's right to exist.

    Transcript and control F for the win.

    enlightenedbum on
    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Wait, did Obama seriously invite people from the terrorist organization of Hamas to come and talk at the White House?

    You know, when looking at the big picture, I get the sense that Obama is the kind of guy that likes to live dangerously.



    The fundies saying Obama is a secret muslim just because he knows a few words out of the Koran is just as ridiculous as people who think he's a secret atheist because he mentioned atheists a few times. Don't you think?

    Where else would you suggest that he engage in dialogue with these organizations that is less secure than the White House? I honestly can't think of one.

    Edit: Also, what enlightenedbum said.

    Spawnbroker on
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  • ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Wait, did Obama seriously invite people from the terrorist organization of Hamas to come and talk at the White House?

    You know, when looking at the big picture, I get the sense that Obama is the kind of guy that likes to live dangerously.

    Umm... like, the guys from Hamas are going to blow themselves up in the White House?

    The only reason the guys from Hamas should be invited to the White House is to be shot down like the dogs they are.

    Obs on
  • ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2009
    Of course I could be wrong. Maybe it's a good strategic move and I'm still just thawing out from the mindset of the Post 9/11, Pre-Obama world

    Obs on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Or you're blindly accepting retarded right wing talking points again and spewing them all over the thread despite me posting the relevant passage.

    enlightenedbum on
    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    The only reason the guys from Hamas should be invited to the White House is to be shot down like the dogs they are.

    Umm. Seriously?

    It's that kind of wonderful thinking that led to the formation of groups like Hamas. If you talk like that, then you make all the rumors that they spread about western civilization seem true to the impressionable people that they target for recruitment.

    Edited for clarity.

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  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Democracy really sucks when it doesn't go the way we want it to, doesn't it?

    Der Waffle Mous on
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  • ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2009
    Or you're blindly accepting retarded right wing talking points again and spewing them all over the thread despite me posting the relevant passage.

    Just remember that blindly ignoring something is just as deadly as blindly accepting.

    Obs on
  • VeritasVRVeritasVR Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Wasn't Hamas actually elected by a democratic process and therefore has sovereignty? In which case, we kinda want to recognize them because not recognizing them is what Bush did, which is also what kids do to kids they don't like on the elementary school playground.

    VeritasVR on
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  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Who's blindly accepting anything?

    Edit: That's actually quotable from this board. Not some made up liberal terrorist loving masses.

    Quid on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    VeritasVR wrote: »
    Wasn't Hamas actually elected by a democratic process and therefore has sovereignty? In which case, we kinda want to recognize them because not recognizing them is what Bush did, which is also what kids do to kids they don't like on the elementary school playground.

    They are the duly elected authority in Gaza, yeah.

    enlightenedbum on
    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    If we could prevent from shitting all over Obs just because he's conservative in the thread, that'd be great.

    On the same token, posting pithy one liners intended to rile up the opposing party based on their political leanings is what I think most around here consider trolling. I don't think posting habits like that are conducive to discussion guys.

    Spawnbroker on
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  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Or you're blindly accepting retarded right wing talking points again and spewing them all over the thread despite me posting the relevant passage.

    Just remember that blindly ignoring something is just as deadly as blindly accepting.

    I'm trying to figure out what this means relative to the exchange you two just had. Are you saying that Obama did invite the Hamas leadership to the White House and that enlightenedbum is ignoring it?

    wwtMask on
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Or you're blindly accepting retarded right wing talking points again and spewing them all over the thread despite me posting the relevant passage.

    Just remember that blindly ignoring something is just as deadly as blindly accepting.

    This is so zen. You're just like Buddha.

    If Buddha had Down's Syndrome.
    This insult has mod approval!

    enlightenedbum on
    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    VeritasVR wrote: »
    Wasn't Hamas actually elected by a democratic process and therefore has sovereignty? In which case, we kinda want to recognize them because not recognizing them is what Bush did, which is also what kids do to kids they don't like on the elementary school playground.

    Yes, Hamas was democratically elected. Which means we should probably examine why and how a group like that came to power before blindly decreeing that we should hunt them all down like dogs. If anti-Western sentiment is so high in Palestine, we should be asking ourselves why instead of saying we should go in and overthrow their democratically elected government just because they hate us.

    Wait a minute, I believe we did that one before, and it caused most of the problems we're currently having to deal with in Afghanistan.

    Spawnbroker on
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  • ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2009
    wwtMask wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Or you're blindly accepting retarded right wing talking points again and spewing them all over the thread despite me posting the relevant passage.

    Just remember that blindly ignoring something is just as deadly as blindly accepting.

    I'm trying to figure out what this means relative to the exchange you two just had. Are you saying that Obama did invite the Hamas leadership to the White House and that enlightenedbum is ignoring it?

    I'm saying that sometimes Obama might be making some bad moves.

    Obs on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    wwtMask wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Or you're blindly accepting retarded right wing talking points again and spewing them all over the thread despite me posting the relevant passage.

    Just remember that blindly ignoring something is just as deadly as blindly accepting.

    I'm trying to figure out what this means relative to the exchange you two just had. Are you saying that Obama did invite the Hamas leadership to the White House and that enlightenedbum is ignoring it?

    I'm saying that sometimes Obama might be making some bad moves.

    Which you'd know I agree with if you read any of the various civil liberties/Gitmo/etc threads we've had. Hooray!

    enlightenedbum on
    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Obs wrote: »

    I'm saying that sometimes Obama might be making some bad moves.

    I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you on that point. You just don't hear us complaining about Obama's bad moves because we are trying to give him the benefit of the doubt because we agree with many of the things he's doing.

    Just like you try to point out everything bad Obama does because you don't like a lot of the things he's doing. See how that works?

    Edit: beated by enlightenedbum again. Dammit!

    Spawnbroker on
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  • ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2009
    Did they even accept the invite

    Obs on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Did they even accept the invite

    Has Hamas done this stuff in the past 13.5 hours?
    To play a role in fulfilling Palestinian aspirations, and to unify the Palestinian people, Hamas must put an end to violence, recognize past agreements, and recognize Israel's right to exist.

    No. There is thus: no invite. Hey look, it's the actual meaning of pre-conditions!

    enlightenedbum on
    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Did they even accept the invite

    I was unable to find what you're talking about. I apologize for the left-leaning nature of the blog, but the actual quote that you're referring to is from Fox News. Their headline for the two-sentence discussion about Hamas that Obama used in his speech in Cairo was "Obama's Terrorist Invite?"

    Here's the link: Response to Fox News Headline about "Obama's Terrorist Invite"

    Edit: As you can see, Obama did not invite Hamas to the White House, but I don't see what would be so wrong if he did. It's just Fox News skewing the actual information to sound inflammatory when it's nothing of the sort.

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  • ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2009
    why the hell would they do that

    Obs on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    why the hell would they do that

    To gain international legitimacy as a governing authority. If their goal is to establish a Palestinean state, it's their best play.

    enlightenedbum on
    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    why the hell would they do that

    I have no clue, but it definitely doesn't help their perceived reputation in the news world as the 'right wing' network. If Fox were really concerned about neutrality and their image among moderates and liberals, they wouldn't try and pull stuff like this on us. As a liberal myself, all this does is make me more suspicious of anything I see from Fox News.

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  • ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2009
    Fox is no worse than any other network really, but they were really off on this one.

    The good news from all this is Obama actually hasn't invited a bunch of killer terrorists to the White House.

    Obs on
  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Fox is far worse than every other network.

    Captain Carrot on
  • Darkchampion3dDarkchampion3d Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Fox is no worse than any other network really, but they were really off on this one.

    The good news from all this is Obama actually hasn't invited a bunch of killer terrorists to the White House.

    The powerful irrational fear, or dare I say terror exhibited by the right wing in the face of a bunch Palestinians who live in incredible poverty and have almost no power at all is amazing to me. I mean I could understand it when people were afraid of the Soviets and their huge nuke stockpile, but these guys? They have some small arms, shitty short range ballistic missiles, and some suicide bombers.

    They are not so terrifying as to preclude us from even speaking with them. And do you honestly think that by not speaking to them that they will just "go away". Placing one's head in the sand is not a very viable strategy. Big bad Hamas won't kill us all if we talk to them. In fact, maybe if we made it so most of them didn't live a fucking life of utter hopelessness they would be less willing to blow themselves up for a free ticket to heaven eh?
    Coleridge wrote:
    "In politics, what begins in fear usually ends in folly."

    Darkchampion3d on
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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Fox is no worse than any other network really, but they were really off on this one.
    Magenta'd for flying in the face of reality.

    OptimusZed on
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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Fox is far worse than every other network.

    There is Fox and then there is Fox News.

    Incenjucar on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    Fox is no worse than any other network really, but they were really off on this one.

    The good news from all this is Obama actually hasn't invited a bunch of killer terrorists to the White House.

    Right, he invited the duly elected representatives of Gaza who won a free and fair election.

    moniker on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    moniker wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Fox is no worse than any other network really, but they were really off on this one.

    The good news from all this is Obama actually hasn't invited a bunch of killer terrorists to the White House.

    Right, he invited the duly elected representatives of Gaza who won a free and fair election.

    Presuming they renounce violence, recognize Israel's right to exist...

    And not to the White House.

    enlightenedbum on
    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2009
    moniker wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Fox is no worse than any other network really, but they were really off on this one.

    The good news from all this is Obama actually hasn't invited a bunch of killer terrorists to the White House.

    Right, he invited the duly elected representatives of Gaza who won a free and fair election.

    Presuming they renounce violence, recognize Israel's right to exist...

    And not to the White House.

    I'm pretty sure they could get a seat if they recognize past agreements and recognize Israel's existence. Any less then that and they're untrustworthy. The most we can hope for on top of that is the rejection of non-military violence, which would depend on Israel allowing the PA to have a military, which isn't all that unlikely given the technical superiority of the IDF (their defensive systems are even better than America's, and they have a functional missile defense system).

    As it stands, the arrangement with Israel is likely to be that there will be no expansion, but people are allowed to move into the settlements and larger settlements are allowed to build higher-capacity buildings on existing plots (some zoning laws in the US enforce something like this by requiring that there always be a structure on the property, so that the chimney (or other part) of an older house is not torn down until the new house is largely completed) and new buildings within large plots (in New England, it's not uncommon to see evidence of large plots having been chopped up, including small houses (converted carriage houses) at least several blocks away from a gigantic house of the same style, houses facing the wrong way, and a large number of newer-looking (from any time in the last century) houses surrounding one older house in an illogical arrangement)

    Scalfin on
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  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I just watched the whole thing. He's incredible. And OMGZ calling out the Israelis on their bullshit FTW! It's about fucking time we stopped ignoring that 400 lb gorilla for fear of Israel taking their ball and going home.

    No-Quarter on
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