The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
Project Natal, or how the Terminators really came to be
evilintent
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Wikipedia says:
Trailer
What do you think about it? Is the demo staged or not? Will it be affordable, or will it cost as much as a Microsoft Surface plus a chicken? Will people actually be interested in playing those games or not? Will the advent of a true living and breathing AI usher in the age of enslavement of mankind by robots?
I still have my doubts about it. Its apparent goal is to release us from the bonds of controllers and linear games that we've grown accustomed to, and vows to lead us to the promised land of Waving Your Arms Wildly To Catch Imaginary Fish Inside Your Tv Set™ and doing Whatever The Hell You Want®. But is it really possible to make a gigantic interactive world with the crystal clear graphics shown in the demo? Much less throw in multi-player, so the whole family can play interactive Boggle? What if cousin Joe from Down South is visiting? Will the equipment be able to see past his thick ol' accent and learn to love the softie undearneath?
I don't see how any team of developers could create such an immersive, complex and fucking interactive sandbox without any nasty-ass glitches or bugs, whatsoever. The platform exclusivity would eliminate most of the rarely occurring misunderstandings between hardware piece X and the software, but still. Shit would have to contain trillions of lines of code to be what is advertised. There is absolutely no way that they won't fuck up. What happens when Milo is stuck repeating secsecsecsecsecsecsecsecsec while bobbing his head like a schizo? Do we simply load an older save game from before the glitch? Can we still call that a "living and breathing self-aware AI", then, since, you know, we just erased the past 20 minutes from its memory and it has no recollection whatsoever of that time period? Will it be able to tell, based on the expression on our faces, that we did something horrible to it and attempt to strangle us with a blender power cable?
Then there's the language barrier. It's even worse because it's interactive. It would take way too many resources to completely translate the game to language X for it to be economically feasible to market it outside English-speaking countries. They'd not only have to hire voice actors to translate the speech, but also re-code the AI to recognize different gestures that accompany phrases in a plethora of languages.
In conclusion, I think it will cause either:
a.) An uproar, because THE DEVIL IS INSIDE MY TV, I NEED TO PURGE IT!
b.) Doomsday scenario (pick your favorite)
c.) Lead to a new Age of Enlightenment©, where human labor will be fully replaced by Milo-look-alikes, and we'll all be lounging at the beach all day. Hello, Wall-E!
Deeskuss.
Project Natal (pronounced "na-tal"(IPA: [naˈtal])) is the code name for a "controller-free gaming and entertainment experience" by Microsoft for the Xbox 360 video game platform. Based on an add-on peripheral for the Xbox 360 console, Project Natal enables users to control and interact with the Xbox 360 without the need to touch a game controller, through gestures, spoken commands, or presented objects and images. The project is aimed at broadening the Xbox 360's audience beyond its typically hardcore base. Project Natal was first announced on June 1 at the 2009 Electronic Entertainment Expo.
Trailer
What do you think about it? Is the demo staged or not? Will it be affordable, or will it cost as much as a Microsoft Surface plus a chicken? Will people actually be interested in playing those games or not? Will the advent of a true living and breathing AI usher in the age of enslavement of mankind by robots?
I still have my doubts about it. Its apparent goal is to release us from the bonds of controllers and linear games that we've grown accustomed to, and vows to lead us to the promised land of Waving Your Arms Wildly To Catch Imaginary Fish Inside Your Tv Set™ and doing Whatever The Hell You Want®. But is it really possible to make a gigantic interactive world with the crystal clear graphics shown in the demo? Much less throw in multi-player, so the whole family can play interactive Boggle? What if cousin Joe from Down South is visiting? Will the equipment be able to see past his thick ol' accent and learn to love the softie undearneath?
I don't see how any team of developers could create such an immersive, complex and fucking interactive sandbox without any nasty-ass glitches or bugs, whatsoever. The platform exclusivity would eliminate most of the rarely occurring misunderstandings between hardware piece X and the software, but still. Shit would have to contain trillions of lines of code to be what is advertised. There is absolutely no way that they won't fuck up. What happens when Milo is stuck repeating secsecsecsecsecsecsecsecsec while bobbing his head like a schizo? Do we simply load an older save game from before the glitch? Can we still call that a "living and breathing self-aware AI", then, since, you know, we just erased the past 20 minutes from its memory and it has no recollection whatsoever of that time period? Will it be able to tell, based on the expression on our faces, that we did something horrible to it and attempt to strangle us with a blender power cable?
Then there's the language barrier. It's even worse because it's interactive. It would take way too many resources to completely translate the game to language X for it to be economically feasible to market it outside English-speaking countries. They'd not only have to hire voice actors to translate the speech, but also re-code the AI to recognize different gestures that accompany phrases in a plethora of languages.
In conclusion, I think it will cause either:
a.) An uproar, because THE DEVIL IS INSIDE MY TV, I NEED TO PURGE IT!
b.) Doomsday scenario (pick your favorite)
c.) Lead to a new Age of Enlightenment©, where human labor will be fully replaced by Milo-look-alikes, and we'll all be lounging at the beach all day. Hello, Wall-E!
Deeskuss.
evilintent on
0
Posts
I'm just not ready to move on. I don't know if I ever will be.
I hear you though, started with NES since I was 1 I think, though I did pick up the wii controls pretty quickly.
Handmade Jewelry by me on EtsyGames for sale
Me on Twitch!
But apart from that, I'm not sure what games you'd be able to play. The demo looked boring - if I want to talk to someone, or play in some water, I can just go outside and do that for real. If it was used for FPSes or other violent games, I'm not sure how that would work morally since you're more engaged in it than simply using a controller.
It's impressive, but it just seems so unnecessary.
See, people use this kind of argument all the time, and I'm not entirely sure it's a valid point. You only need to take a look at the success of Guitar Hero and Rock Band et al to see that virtual experiences that ape their real-life counterparts can still be ridiculously successful. Talking with an actual child and playing in a pond is an entirely different set of experiences to doing it virtually - for starters, it's warm, and you can turn the child off, but it's also about marvelling at the technology involved more than actually being emotionally invested, no matter what Peter Molyneux wants you to think.
There's actually a thread in G&T that points to a lot of the same issues, but my main one is that without tactile feedback, the game isn't immersive with this kind of motion. Turning a doorknob with your actual hand actually breaks the immersion when it doesn't open, whereas adding the controller as an extra level of interaction can mask that.
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
Cause if it is, it's been confirmed that the demo was pretty much smoke and mirrors. There's been reports of someone behind the scenes controlling Milo to a degree, his answers being open ended where it would be used for multiple questions and that there's not real speech detection, more like tone detection.
Can you provide a link confirming this?
Invisible Walls is where the 'smoke and mirrors' comment comes from.
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
Seconded. They've been working on this for 9 years, and Microsoft and Molyneux would lose all credibility in any area they would ever work in again, period. He also said at the end that they'll be "showing this behind closed doors, at E3, to a selected audience", and it's a bit late for April's Fools.
Though I can't help but wonder.. how many people like Claire are there out there, really?
Did you have a brain tumor for breakfast? Saying it's just speech recognition software is beyond moronic. If it is what is advertised, it's so much more than that. Also, it seems you're struggling with the definition of facial recognition.
PS: Assuming all of this was 100% real and not in any way staged, the demo gives the impression that he knows he did something bad, and didn't act ashamed/coy just because he was programmed to tilt his head down 8.5 degrees and look to the left and right quickly approximately 3 seconds after the phrase "Have you finished your assignment?" is uttered. That's also what Molyneux' point was, that this technology is the next step, not a Frankenstein made up of assorted pieces of recognition software.
I would also suggest you contact the company that sold you the joke recognition software you're using; it's in dire need of a patch.
This is assuming these sort of control and interaction methods take off that much. Personally, I rather liked the stuff shown in that Sony demo for the Playstation wand thingies more than Natal, but I think that's because I like the principle of the Wii, just with more accuracy.
Also that bow demo was wicked.
I heard it through various podcasts last week, like Willeth pointed out.
There's a Natal thread in G&T and they were discussing this as well with people pointing out my stated points. I'll try to dig through it and find it.
EDIT: And since when does Molyneux have any credibility? :P
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
But it's the age of pretending to do things you could be doing. Fuck, people go to the beach and sip fruity drinks in games instead of just.. going doing that outside. There's a whole 'nother level to this whole shindig!
This man speaks truth.
Until there is real, physical interaction (which probablty wont happen in my lifetime) waving my hands in the air will be less immersive then using a controller.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
We've decided we like our shadows on the cave wall.
How about intuitive?
Or enjoyable?
Those are fine.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
I have no real reasons for disliking this idea other than I like sitting down with a controller, I'm familiar with the concept of a controller to interact with a game, and though it's not much the controller can give me physical feedback based on what's happening in-game.
I hope this is just an "add-on" kind of thing, and that console games don't try to move away from the hand-held controller in favor of standing in the middle of the room waving one's arms about like a goofball.
I think we're going to find that "our way" of gaming is the peripheral format in the near future. Casual gaming, which is more or less what remote-waggling, hand-waving is about, is the big moneymaker. It's just good business to focus on the casual market.
Is it, though? I have a sneaking suspicion most people who are buying the Wii won't buy a Wii2. Or at least in much less significant numbers.
And none of them are ever going to buy a 360(720) or a PS3(4).
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
That's a fair point. At this stage it's too early to claim that casual gaming is a sustainable market, unlike the largely fandom, subculture-oriented gaming market.
Then what's left? Milo! Genius marketing ploy, really. Wait til the console market is saturated and people are bored shitless and/or innovation has come to a halt, and swoop for the kill.
And Moriarty, tell that to Blizzard. :P
PS: The Wii's success strongly hints at a bustling casual market.. so many innocents.
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
I mean, no one's mad that you can use joysticks for flight sims or a mouse and keyboard if you want.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Um
I don't know how much Nintendo make compared to EA. But I don't really think they're comparable. EA don't get a cut of the profits made on selling PCs, for example.
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
That was my bad. It was a reply to Moriarty's comment about focusing on the casual market, and that our "hardcore" games will be the niche in the near future. I skipped the near future bit. Whoops.
Even so, my Nostradomus-like perception may have failed me on this one.
Only time will tell.
Seriously though, if this is legitimate, the applications are endless. Sure, kids would still be making Nike shoes in Nigeria for 12 cents an hour, but I could order from a machine at the drive-through. And it could tell when I'm undecided, and pick something for me based on my recent purchases, because it remembers them!
Okay, I promise to not abuse italics any more.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
When I think "casual," I think virtual bowling or life simulators.
And when I think "hardcore", I think God of War 2.
You really don't see a distinct difference between Wii bowling and eviscerating demigods? Really (ooh, look, I did it again)?
Remember all the crazy shit we were going to be able to do with our Wiis? How gaming would never be the same again? And how it reality it's just "wiggle the controller to jump" and "pump the controller like you're jerking off to perform a punch" and so on?
Yeah. Welcome to the future of gaming, or whatever. I like my controller. Even if the controls on this thing were so fuckawesome that it could actually model with pixel-perfect accuracy every last movement I made such that I was the guy in the game, I would prefer a controller. Because I don't want to have to learn how to do a fucking Whirlwind Kick in real life to make Ryu pull one off, thank you very much.
See, when I think of hardcore, I think of gamer's games like Shadow of the Colossus, Okami, Zeldas, Smash Bros, and a variety of other games. Things like God of War, Gears of War, Halo, WoW to an extent, and other games with mass market appeal and success strike somewhere between that might be referred to as casual core.
At least, that's my estimation.