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Should I buy a yacht? (sorry, I meant sailboat)
soshexy
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I've always wanted to live on a yacht. I've been on a fair few boats (none recently though), and that lifestyle has always appealed to me.
I haven't, however, pursued this goal because of 1) Money and 2) Wife.
Well, last November I got divorced from my wife, so thats no longer an obstacle. As for the money, I make roughly 160 grand year, usually more, sometimes less. I live very frugally (no TV, games, etc...suits are my only real expense) so I have a lot saved up (roughly 320ish).
I am a consultant, and not to toot my own horn, but I am pretty good at what I do, so they don't have a problem with me being away a few months a year (obviously still working during that time...they would just send me the data and I would crunch it on my own).
Here are my questions:
Is my budget enough to sustain maintaining/living on a yacht?
Is there any way I can get internet out on the ocean so they can send me the data, or will I just need to be in a port for that?
Can you recommend any good sailing lessons in Southern California? (I live in Washington D.C. right now, but a transfer to L.A. is imminent)
Can you recommend any yachts? I want one with sails, and I think 40 to 60 feet would be a good size to live on (agreed?).
Is it legal to just drop anchor somewhere for the night, or do I need to stay in a marina?
More questions will come as you guys respond. Thanks.
P.S. I am 28 and in good shape, so I don't think maintaining the yacht would be an issue.
I haven't, however, pursued this goal because of 1) Money and 2) Wife.
Well, last November I got divorced from my wife, so thats no longer an obstacle. As for the money, I make roughly 160 grand year, usually more, sometimes less. I live very frugally (no TV, games, etc...suits are my only real expense) so I have a lot saved up (roughly 320ish).
I am a consultant, and not to toot my own horn, but I am pretty good at what I do, so they don't have a problem with me being away a few months a year (obviously still working during that time...they would just send me the data and I would crunch it on my own).
Here are my questions:
Is my budget enough to sustain maintaining/living on a yacht?
Is there any way I can get internet out on the ocean so they can send me the data, or will I just need to be in a port for that?
Can you recommend any good sailing lessons in Southern California? (I live in Washington D.C. right now, but a transfer to L.A. is imminent)
Can you recommend any yachts? I want one with sails, and I think 40 to 60 feet would be a good size to live on (agreed?).
Is it legal to just drop anchor somewhere for the night, or do I need to stay in a marina?
More questions will come as you guys respond. Thanks.
P.S. I am 28 and in good shape, so I don't think maintaining the yacht would be an issue.
soshexy on
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Figure about 10%/year of purchase price for maintenance, just to keep it seaworthy, this does not include the cost of operation. You'll need a slip.
If you plan to live on it, just ask yourself "can I live in a trailer?" if the answer is yes, you might could live on a boat.
There's two of everything (generators, engines, battery banks, everything that is required to keep the boat operational), this is to ensure if something breaks at sea you can make it home safe.
Everything costs 3X as much (e.g. when visiting I accompany the captain/boat manager when he's outfitting the boat, this tiny icemaker he was getting was around $700, it was maybe half the size of a minibar).
If you want it bad enough you can do it, but it is a hole in the water in which you throw money. But if it's what you love...
Go diesel not gas (eventhough gas is cheaper, both the boat and the fuel). First boat this guy had was gas: fire at sea ... really, really bad.
My father owns a 30ft-ish sailboat for pleasure only, and after 5+ years of experience, he can manage it OK on his own. So I would not recommend a sailboat. I'm not sure what it takes to captain a engine-only craft, no doubt easier, but still a major undertaking.
He's traveling right now along the East coast; Virginia, Mass., through the channels and coastal waterways. For a pleasant life, you'll want to either buy or rent a slip at a marina. Expect about the cost of a decent hotel per night, or many thousand to buy. Depending on the marina, they vary from fully-furnished club houses to nothing more than a shallow port.
If you get cell service, you can get data. Dad's had no issues near the coast, not sure how far out he's gone but not into deep sea or anything. He's got an ASUS Eee netbook for uploading photos, email, etc. when at as marina with 'net.
Everything Djeet said about safety & expense is spot-on. If you love it it's fantastic, but things can go bad quick, and you need to be prepared. Again from what my father says, boat people are a lot like RV people; very friendly and willing to help their own, but you need to be able to confident inn yourself first.
edit: Also what SideAffects said.
I love sailing. I love traveling. I would go insane traveling the world in a yacht.
I sail my lazer (http://www.theboathouse.biz/boat_vanguard_laser.asp) at a local lake and it is hella fun and I go on 3+ week vacations to far away places and they are also hella fun.
What exactly is it about owning or living on a yacht that appeals to you?
The absolute minimum LWL you need to look for is around 27 feet. Any sorter than that and you're asking for trouble on if you plan on sailing out of sight of land on the Pacific's rollers. Beyond that fact, there are more important considerations than just LWL/LOA:
1. Where do you want to sail, and what sea conditions should you plan for there? Assuming you're going to sail on the Pacific, you're going to want something with a fair amount of ballast so she's a stiff ride -- additionally, you're going to want that ballast to be fairly low (probably fin keel to be safe) because as long as your center of gravity is set lower than your center of bouyancy, you're pretty safe against capsizing.
2. Where are you going to homeport it, and what harbors do you envision yourself sailing to? More specifically: what is the water depth in those harbors? The deeper your boat's draught, the more harbors you will find yourself disqualified from entering because you're likely to run aground.
3. Are you claustrophobic? If your answer is yes, you might want to scrub this idea. Even by yourself, a 35 foot boat will feel pretty goddamned claustrophobic after a week of sailing.
This is inherrently true if for no other reason than that like a car, a boat is an asset with depreciating value. Which is a really smart thing to consider if you're deciding between a house and a boat -- you can build equity in a house. You, meanwhile, are still not yet thirty. Assuming you die at 80, the most you'll have to show for your purchase during your old age would be an aged, sun-blistered hull due to be condemned by the Coast Guard sooner rather than later.
I really wanted a boat for awhile, but I eventually came to the understanding that to learn all I'd need to know to self-operate I would need to crew a blue water vessel for a few years, and have some kind of favored status so I could be in a position to learn everything. Having the wife and kids, I'm not in a situation where I could do that even if I had the opportunity.
My own conclusion was that unless I'm tooling around in the lake in something that's maybe 23', I'd need a shitpile of cash (millions) so I could just pay a crew to actually boat around in the manner I'd like to.
Edit: I don't really have the passion to make boating and maintaining the boat a fulltime job, maybe a hobby when the weather's nice. Before you buy see if you can crew a blue water boat, I'd think if you were willing to do it for board and passage (foregoing pay or taking very little) you might be able to find some work that would give you an idea of what it's like to be on a boat for an extended period of time and what's involved in maintenance.
I'm wondering if you are thinking you're going to be able to buy some crazy James Bond yacht that's fully furnished and air conditioned with all the good stuff that would actually make it comfortable and livable.
I'm guessing: probably not without spending most of all of your savings plus extra.
Then all I can think of his how the hell will you stay connected. As a consultant, you probably do lots of phone calls. Have you tested internet/cell connectivity on the briny sea?
I'll make you a deal. You give me a hundred grand, and I'll make up all sorts of anecdotes and statistics about how wonderful it would be if you pursued your lifelong dream.
we also talk about other random shit and clown upon each other
definitely yes.
But sailing, especially blue-water sailing, is an incredibly fulfilling experience. The question is whether you have the time, energy, and experience to make a cruising lifestyle work.
First off, experience. I would not recommend attempting long-distance solo trips until you have several years of experience. Sailing is incredibly complicated. Incredibly. There is so much to know about the vessel and the element in which you are operating that five or six years is probably the bare minimum experience you would want to look for in a captain. In addition, the larger the boat, the larger the crew required to comfortably handle her. A sailboat large enough to live in comfortably full-time is also large enough to require two or three experienced crewmembers for anything other than the most placid conditions.
Then there's time and energy. Oh, and money. You will need a limitless supply of each.
My suggestion? If you're truly committed to a nautical lifestyle, study the subject until you can pass the Coast Guard written test for the 100 ton Master's License with an Auxiliary Sail endorsement and the Marine Radio Operator Permit. Until you have that level of knowledge, you're running a terrible risk by taking to the open ocean.
The following two books will be indispensable on your quest:
Get Your Captain's License: The Complete Study Guide. Wing, Charlie. Fourth Edition, 2008
An essential guide for anyone interested in a Master's License, but beyond that, an essential guide to the subjects you should be familiar with (and competent at) before you go sailing out of sight of land. Also includes a bitchin' CD-ROM containing practice test software.
Amazon Link
Chapman: Piloting & Seamanship. Maloney, Elbert S. 65'th edition, 2006.
Considered the bible of maritime knowledge as applicable to boats under about 200 tons by many in the industry. If you read nothing else, read all 928 pages of this book over and over until you can quote from it in your sleep.
Amazon Link
Amazon's got some kickass deals on those books this month, too. Have at it, and be safe out there.
~V
I'm going to re-state what some other people have said: a boat is a money pit. A house is an invesment. If you buy now, and plan on holding onto it for awhile, you can find some great deals, and are almost certain to make money from it.
That being said, there are some fatastically fucking expensive satellite modems that should get you internet on the open sea, provided you have cear skies.
because boats are hells of expensive to keep up
I could swear this exact same post came up here, like a year ago.
xbl - HowYouGetAnts
steam - WeAreAllGeth
Yeah, it might cost you some money but the experience will be priceless.
Buy a house (esp. East of LA, is my advice, because the housing market there is crashing hard so you should be able to get a good deal on that side of town), take some sailing classes, and then if you decide you love it, get a second-hand craft for cheap and do some tooling up and down the coast. There are some great little islands off the Coast of California you can visit -- first recommendation: San Catalina Isl.
You can buy a new yacht in your 40s or 50s after you've saved up more if you absolutely want, but it's a hell of an impulse purchase at this point in your life.
A realistic dream? (primarily concerning living on a yacht off the coast of NZ)
A sailors life for me
Some good advice in both of them, worth a look see.
My general suggestion (as you can see in both of those threads) is that if you don't already know how to sail, it's a Bad Idea to jump right into ocean-going adventures. And unless you are very talented at fixing mechanical and electronical as well as the dealing with rotting wood and soggy fiberglas, living aboard has the possibility of being a gigantic hassle, not to mention very expensive.
I think that lessons though these guys with certified instructors is a good idea, or you can find a local yacht/sailing club and ask about their adult keelboat programs, because most of them do.
Once you've learned the basics, learn to be crew on other people's boats again through your local club or through the Crew Pool at Sailing Anarchy. You will learn a lot just by watching older and more experienced sailors and it will absolutely teach you how to skipper your own boat, after which you can figure out how to singlehand.
Take a sailing class in the DC area before you move out West, and while you're waiting for your transfer, walk the pier in Anapolis on race days -- I think they're racing out there every Wednesday now, but I could be wrong. Independent owners have fairly regular regattas out there, and they're always looking for crew, and they're always looking not to pay for it. A few races will at least teach you how to tack, gybe, and how most of the hardware works on a larger craft.
Something like this is HK$4.5million / £360,000 / $540,000
http://www.squarefoot.com.hk/property/130670
3 or 4 of my boss's live on boats like that, and they're pretty sweet. Much more space than a comparably priced apartment here.
you can get a sailing boat / power boat that you can (un)comfortably live on for less than $100K in very good condition... this will have a cabin with 2 beds, storage, kitchenette, bathroom with shower, and small desk... you'll then have to pay for gas (lots for a power boat, less for a sailboat), any docking fees/marina fees, etc.
lots of people making less than you have boats, don't let everyone tell you that you can't do it
if the open sea sailing doesn't matter, look into a houseboat... awesome living IMHO
Don't you mean trawled?
My thoughts exactly. If you're making that kind of money, you have access to a better knowledge base than the Penny Arcade forums.
Well, I'd like to be able to sail for extended periods of time...at least have that as an option. And I don't mind living in small spaces either.
I obviously plan on taking lessons before I buy a yacht, but I think I should note that I'm not moving to L.A. so I can sail...I requested a transfer to mix things up. Life has gotten stale.
Doesn't the freedom counter all the costs? That lifestyle just really appeals to me. Before I came to D.C., I swam and snorkeled almost all the time. I love the water.
And according to you guys, a twenty to thirty foot sail boat would be best? Like I said, I don't mind the cramped quarters.
P.S. To all the people asking how I make so much money: I chose a profession and I stuck with it. Most guys I know switch up careers every few years, and your salary pretty much resets when you do that. As for what I do, I'm a senior consultant working for the FBI. Outside of that, I analyze the market and help investors and startups decide when, where, and how to be successful, basically. Its a lot more than that, but thats it in a nutshell.
I'll respond to some other questions that I may have missed later today. I appreciate the help thus far.
Okay, I love sailing. Love it. But it's not all lying out before the mast next to whatever bikini-clad blond beach-bunny climbed aboard with you last night and staring up at a blue sky thinking to yourself "today I think I should like to go to Acapulco." There's a lot of tedium at times and a lot of frustration -- there are days when it seems like no matter where you want to go, it will always be directly to windward, and you'll spend all day beating upwind at about three knots and end the day only a couple dozen miles closer to where you want to be than you were when you started. Sometimes it's rainy and wet and cold and miserable. Sometimes you think to yourself "I will murder someone if I ever have to eat Spam again."
Are these boats functional? As in, do they have engines and are driveable? They seem to be advertised without any details as to power or serviceability.
Thirty would be getting closer... but it would have to be pretty fucking nice for me to spend more than a weekend in it.
we also talk about other random shit and clown upon each other
I remember someone coming here for advice on yurts. He found someone whose friend's father is one of the only yurt makers in North America.
I don't think you give this forum nearly enough credit.
Also since i'm not just posting for commenting on the various posts , to the question below :
i'll be honest, i had the dubious privilege of meeting dirty rich people who could actually afford a yacht, and if i remenber what they were telling me , you're probably a little short. You have probably enough to buy one, but the costs will slowly kill you.
This sums it up pretty well. A sea-worthy craft that would be comfortable to live in would be barley within the price range, but upkeep, marinas, and supplies would not be sustainable.