The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
Please vote in the Forum Structure Poll. Polling will close at 2PM EST on January 21, 2025.
End of Dark Reign *Speculation, but spoilers may come up*
BostonGangler
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I think it goes without saying that eventually Dark Reign has to end. The real question, IMO, is the when, how, and why of it (not where so much). So what do you guys think? How do you want to see it go?
To me, it looks like there are a few prime candidates for how Dark Reign ends, and a few power players who, in some way or another, will have to have their say in the matter.
1. Nick Fury: With the revelation that
2. Heroes for Hire:
3. Wolverine, Ms. Marvel, Ronin: Their identities were co-opted by Norman. I have to imagine that htat makes all of this even worse, in its own way, and I expect that we'll see them all pretty clearly reestablish themselves as the worthy wearers of their costumes.
4. Spider-Man: At the end of the day, I have to assume that Spider-Man's going to be the one who gets the final word with Norman. That's the way that it should be, at least.
5. Captain America: With Steve Rogers coming back, he seems to be the natural figurehead that a real resistance movement could organize behind. Added bonus is that he is probably the only surfacer who Namor actually respects, so that might work in his favor. Namor's certainly come to his aid against government forces before.
6. Iron Man: As interesting as this current run on Invincible Iron Man has been, I don't see him actually succeeding at his end goal. Eventually, he's going to have to come up and face the fact that none of this could have happened if he hadn't taken the stance that he did in the Civil War in the first place. For all of the people who have ragged on him since Civil War, this is probably his best shot at redemption in their eyes.
7. Fantastic Four: Up until now, they've mostly stayed out of the whole thing--though that seems to be mostly Millar's doing--but their conflict with Osborn is finally heating up with the DR crossover. Personally, I think that it's outright idiotic of Norman to play hardball with them, since he could have kept them on an extremely long leash and probably avoided conflict altogether if he had wanted to.
8. X-Men:
9. Captain America (Bucky): As far as what I would like to see, this is it. Bucky, realizing that there will always be corrupt individuals like Norman who seek to rule the world and must be... dealt with, realizes the necessity of the Winter Soldier. He resolves that he alone is able and willing to take care of the whole Norman problem, and goes back to WS, at least now knowing that he can finally call the shots. Once Norman's power base is destabilized, Bucky kills him, essentially giving the Marvel Universe a chance to start over, with the combined help of the teams and heroes listed above. In the aftermath, Bucky understands that someone like him (now that he has accepted his role as WS of his own free will) cannot be Captain America, so he gives up the shield, essentially compelling Steve to reassume his old role, however hesitant he may have been. This is one of the only scenarios I can see where both Bucky and Steve come out of everything as better, nobler, and more interesting characters.
In introducing the whole "The List" series, it was also explicitly stated that this would serve in many ways as the end to Dark Reign, transitioning over to the next major event.
To me, it looks like there are a few prime candidates for how Dark Reign ends, and a few power players who, in some way or another, will have to have their say in the matter.
1. Nick Fury: With the revelation that
SHIELD was a part of HYDRA the whole time
, it seems like this guy's pissed off and ready to go. He has a team behind him, he's the one who's arguably lost the most, and he, perhaps more than anyone else, knows what's at stake and how he has to position himself to put a stop to all of this. Anyone care to speculate what role he'll play?2. Heroes for Hire:
Apparently Luke Cage and Iron Fist will be joining the Thunderbolts.
This makes absolutely no sense to me, so I have to assume that it is part of some larger plan. Thoughts?3. Wolverine, Ms. Marvel, Ronin: Their identities were co-opted by Norman. I have to imagine that htat makes all of this even worse, in its own way, and I expect that we'll see them all pretty clearly reestablish themselves as the worthy wearers of their costumes.
4. Spider-Man: At the end of the day, I have to assume that Spider-Man's going to be the one who gets the final word with Norman. That's the way that it should be, at least.
5. Captain America: With Steve Rogers coming back, he seems to be the natural figurehead that a real resistance movement could organize behind. Added bonus is that he is probably the only surfacer who Namor actually respects, so that might work in his favor. Namor's certainly come to his aid against government forces before.
6. Iron Man: As interesting as this current run on Invincible Iron Man has been, I don't see him actually succeeding at his end goal. Eventually, he's going to have to come up and face the fact that none of this could have happened if he hadn't taken the stance that he did in the Civil War in the first place. For all of the people who have ragged on him since Civil War, this is probably his best shot at redemption in their eyes.
7. Fantastic Four: Up until now, they've mostly stayed out of the whole thing--though that seems to be mostly Millar's doing--but their conflict with Osborn is finally heating up with the DR crossover. Personally, I think that it's outright idiotic of Norman to play hardball with them, since he could have kept them on an extremely long leash and probably avoided conflict altogether if he had wanted to.
8. X-Men:
Descriptions of "The List" referenced the fact that, fresh off of Utopia, Norman is feeling emboldened. This must mean that his conflict with the X-Men is a pretty resounding success.
All in all, it seems like the X-Men had enough of their own stuff on their plate, to the point that they probably weren't too inclined to get involved in all of this. It looks like Utopia is about HAMMER taking it to them, though, and, add in the upcoming formation of the Dark X-Men, and conflict is bound to happen.9. Captain America (Bucky): As far as what I would like to see, this is it. Bucky, realizing that there will always be corrupt individuals like Norman who seek to rule the world and must be... dealt with, realizes the necessity of the Winter Soldier. He resolves that he alone is able and willing to take care of the whole Norman problem, and goes back to WS, at least now knowing that he can finally call the shots. Once Norman's power base is destabilized, Bucky kills him, essentially giving the Marvel Universe a chance to start over, with the combined help of the teams and heroes listed above. In the aftermath, Bucky understands that someone like him (now that he has accepted his role as WS of his own free will) cannot be Captain America, so he gives up the shield, essentially compelling Steve to reassume his old role, however hesitant he may have been. This is one of the only scenarios I can see where both Bucky and Steve come out of everything as better, nobler, and more interesting characters.
BostonGangler on
0
Posts
I missed most of Brubaker's run on Cap, so I just read all 51 issues in the past couple days, and this is the first idea I've heard regarding CA: Reborn that I like. I'm enjoying "Bucky Cap" but I would actually like it to turn out this way.
But, I gotta think it'll be Spider-Man that finally takes down Norman. All of his anger about Dark Reign in Amazing and Logan telling him that he needs to kill Osborn has to go somewhere. Plus, if Harry reconciles with Norman, and then sees Spidey kill him, it'll create a nice synergy with the movie universe, which we know Marvel loves to do. But then again, I'm still 2 or 3 issues behind on Amazing, so I could be completely off-base, depending on where American Son goes.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
In all seriousness, I would really like to see something like Steve Rogers as head of SHIELD, keeping Bucky as Cap. But that might be something like Hal as the Spectre where people (Alex Ross) would never stop talking about him being Cap.
Pym, however.. there's a man who could take down some Osborne. Dress the guy up as the Wasp and watch Hank go at him.
I hope Steve Rogers comes back and just becomes president or something silly like that.
Ultimately Norman will be his own undoing. I have no doubt that he will snap and pull some crazy goblinyness in front of a lot of people.
In fact it would be kind of cool if this was how the good guys handled the situation. They know his sanity is built on a house of cards. If they played into that you could get a pretty cool little story.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
And then Voidtry throws the entire planet into the sun.
I like it! Fight crazy with crazy! Homicidal maniac with homicidal maniac!
Whereas I said
So, that's my opinion (my question was which pose JRJr will draw him in). I figure Norman will go batshit, and get fucked up and outwitted/outplayed by Tony (because Fraction actually DOES have him on a massive redemption path, which he talked about last year just after SI ended) and then DEX/Obama walks in.
If this is what happens I will buy 10 million copies just to see May die again and again.
Not that it won't happen, because it would tie-in really well with Tony's redemption arc, but there's not all that much of a precedent for it as far as Marvel goes.
I like Bucky as Cap too, but it's a foregone conclusion that it's going to end. Steve is going to be Cap again, and it's a matter of when. It's more important to me that the transition back leaves Bucky in a good position that is creative, well-written, and actually progresses his character instead of pigeonholing him as a dark, generic, mostly forgotten anti-hero. That matters more to me than getting a few extra issues with him as Cap.
IMO, with Cap off the table, Bucky's most interesting role by far is as Winter Soldier. Specifically, the idea of him operating as a lone wolf whose only allegiance is to Cap (Steve) is intriguing to me. I also think that it could lead to some incredibly interesting team-ups and interactions, as Steve would certainly understand the necessity and ultimate benefit of the path that Bucky has chosen (let's not kid ourselves: Steve's a soldier who operated behind enemy lines in WW2. He knows the necessity of subterfuge and lethal force).
To Bucky, being the Cap symbol is a burden, and one that he's willing to carry because Steve asked him to, but one that I honestly think he would give back gladly in a second if Steve was prepared to take it back. Handled well--and the description that I gave at the end of the original post is the closest thing I've come up with to that, FWIW--I think that Bucky could come out of this a better, more interesting, and more developed character.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
True. I'm thinking more long-term: I don't want to see Bucky become Marvel's Kyle Rayner in the grand scope.
Yeah, he's made a habit of setting up future events in the Avengers books, so that makes a lot of sense.
Completely off-topic, but DC's handling of Kyle Rayner?
I'm also thinking Moon Knight will, hopefully, play into the end of Dark Reign with Vengeance of the Moon Knight and Lockley coming back to pick a fight with HAMMER. I really want to see Marvel push the next Moon Knight series big.
And I'm all for a big, supernatural event in the Marvel universe, which Moon Knight (via Khonshu) and Ghost Rider both getting bigger roles. Marvel does seem more interested in the supernatural as of late, with the Doctor Voodoo series and Strange mini, and despite the undeserved fate of the awesome Captain Britain and MI-13. Let's see those guys have a big role in the event too.
The best ending for Dark Reign i've heard was over on the SA comic boards. Given the amount of attention Norman seems to be giving The Sentry and seems to actually care about Bob (Fuck you to anybody who just thought 'he's just manipulating him' i like my bad guys a little multi-faceted and not just throwing women from bridges). Somebody suggested having Dark Reign end with a throw down in which Norman ends up getting killed while trying to stop The Sentry/Void going batshit insane and destroying the world.
With the final few panels being the grateful public building a statue to commemorated Normans memory and a shot of the Avengers standing in front of it, shaking their heads and walking off one at a time until it's just Spider Man standing there on his own, before collapsing to his knees in front of a big shiny statue of Norman Osborn looking heroic and beloved by the people.
Also, it focuses way too much on the Spider-Man/Osborn relationship when Dark Reign is supposed to be much bigger than the two of them.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Odds are Bendis wouldn't be writing it. Of all the writers Marvel has, I think Fraction is the one with the biggest name and the right tools to handle a mystic event. I don't see them handing Sacassa the reins to a big event yet since he hasn't had any really high profile work.
Hopefully they'd get Sacassa involved since he's been working that angle for a while. I don't know what his relationship is with the guys in charge, but he's been there a while, so maybe!
As for DR, I just hope it lasts longer than the Initiative.
I'm going to go to the other end of the spectrum and say that just once I'd like to see Sentry have a significant role in an event where he doesn't freak out and run away and/or nearly destroy the world. Probably the one redeeming quality of WWH was the pep talk that Iron Man gave Sentry. It explained why Iron Man had to do what he had to do better than anything else had before or since, and actually gave Sentry a little depth as a character.
Everytime an event happens, it seems like point 5 on the checklist is figuring out a reason to keep Sentry uninvolved. Which is fine, in a sense, but if this is what they were going to do with the character, they never should have brought him back after the original miniseries, and should probably just kill him off now.
On a related note, if this whole thing ends with Sentry throwing Norman into the sun, I'll LOL.
Entirely separate point: I was just thinking, though, that remember how one of the huge points that was made in SI was how this was the first time since Avengers:Disassembled that Cap, Iron Man, and Thor had fought on the same side? It felt a little hollow, since Cap wasn't Steve, but if that's really a big deal to them, and it seems like it is, how much do you want to bet that at some point Steve's going to do the whole "Avengers Assemble!" line and Iron Man, Thor, and Clint are going to spring into action...
As cheesy as that would be, it would be pretty badass at the same time, I think.
Which leads to a retcon of 616 Marvel. All issues starting at number 1. It'll be Marvel's "Infinite Crisis" done right.
But I would love to see Spidey End Norman. Hell, if its "crossing the moral line" for Pete, then just have Spidey unmask as Ben Riley once Norman gets "got".
-"Got" by the way is a 70 urban steet slang meaning "Murdered". And Now you know....
There we go. Massive crisis happens again Superman Prime and Sentry fight and end up trapped in that reality shattering place fighting each other for all time, and then nobody has to write around Sentry or gets to wheel Superman Prime in to legitimize their threat and have another tired superhero dog-pile fight.